Handgun and Rifle Options for Socialist States. [Archive]

Savage Hands

04-15-2014, 03:58 PM

As per title. Inspired by my recent visit to California and the myriad laws therein, what would be the professional recommendation for firearms intended for self defense use in states like that.

Can I ask why you care so much about what we do in California? We're not all Eunuchs here and have most of the same choices of everyone else minus a handful of NFA, .50 BMG and we make our "Assault Weapons" compliant. Not a professional recommendation but I carry Gen 4 9mm Glocks with standard capacity magazines acquired before the year 2000 or a J-Frame with my AR that has a 'Bullet Button' mainly for range fun or SHTF. My main home defense gun is a Gen 4 G17 with an X-300U locked in a quick access safe since I have a 3 1/2 year old child, also my Surefire with a lanyard is on my nightstand.

Guinnessman

04-15-2014, 03:58 PM

Just saw this today, designed for California's whackyness:
http://www.guns.com/2014/04/11/stylish-new-featureless-ar-ares-defense-systems-video/

and there are the Benelli R1's:
http://www.benelliusa.com/rifles

For handguns, most seem to just go with reduced capacity mags in whatever they'd have otherwise, though I've heard that some don't run as reliably with the neutered mags (Glock was the specific I'd heard complaints about).

The neutered 10 round mags that I have for my G19 are absolute garbage! They make great practice magazines because they do a great job of inducing malfunctions. This is another reason why I would go with a gun designed around low cap magazines.

Savage Hands

04-15-2014, 04:01 PM

The neutered 10 round mags that I have for my G19 are absolute garbage! They make great practice magazines because they do a great job of inducing malfunctions. This is another reason why I would go with a gun designed around low cap magazines.

Glock will send you a different follower for that problem.

Magic_Salad0892

04-15-2014, 04:55 PM

My brother uses a 1911, and a Beretta with 10 round magazines.

45dotACP

04-15-2014, 05:03 PM

I'd probably just put the kibosh on a rifle and go for a shotgun for HD. A load of buckshot is still formidable and most shotguns don't even hold ten rounds anyways.

As for handguns, you can still have high cap mags from what I understand, they just have to be grandfathered. I don't shoot a carbine simply because I do not have one. But most guns that you can have elsewhere can be bought in California. You can buy a Smith M&P (and in the .45 caliber version, it's a ten round mag anyway), a Glock (I have wanted a G30 for a while as well).

My list would basically be the same as the list I have right now. I have plans for a Sig or Beretta in the future. For a rifle, I'd probably end up going for a lever gun, like a .357 magnum or a .45 colt because awesome things happen to .357 magnums when they go through a 16" barrel.

A point however. If you want to use a lever gun for HD, you'd better not shortstroke that sucker, because it will tie the gun up tighter than a Pentecostal prom date's dress.

DocGKR

04-15-2014, 05:32 PM

The S&W M&P45 would be an ideal pistol in CA, too bad it is no longer sold here. Likewise the S&W M&P9c was a good choice, as it actually runs fine with the neutered 10 rd mags, however it too is no longer sold in CA. Glock 26's are a good choice, as are G19's with the grip cut for G26 mags, at least till both drop off the "Safe Handgun" Roster at the end of this year and are no longer sold in CA. I am not a fan of the Sig P220, so I guess that leaves 1911's in flavors and some old revolvers...

Thank goodness I have a good supply of 9 mm Glocks and mags, as well as M&P45's...

For long guns, shotguns like 870's, 590's, M2's, 1301's, along with "friendly" rifles like M1 Garand's, M1A's, as well as various lever guns are all possibilities.

Savage Hands

04-15-2014, 05:39 PM

Suvorov

04-15-2014, 05:46 PM

Just saw this today, designed for California's whackyness:
http://www.guns.com/2014/04/11/stylish-new-featureless-ar-ares-defense-systems-video/

This actually looks to be the best solution so far to featurless rifles! Well done Ares (as long as it works).

luckyman

04-15-2014, 05:55 PM

I think CA is the main place where a Glock 37 ( 10 round 45 gap) might still make sense. That and the g26, or in my case a G19 cut down to 26-size.

TGS

04-15-2014, 07:21 PM

My ban-state pistol:
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/Finkerfuggles/Firearms/97dd6b96-e152-4dcf-8202-f00d19392eb0_zps235af960.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/Finkerfuggles/media/Firearms/97dd6b96-e152-4dcf-8202-f00d19392eb0_zps235af960.jpg.html)

My ban-state rifle:
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/Finkerfuggles/Firearms/71d96244-7f29-4742-bb78-c76eaf5ad88b_zpseb7b7588.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/Finkerfuggles/media/Firearms/71d96244-7f29-4742-bb78-c76eaf5ad88b_zpseb7b7588.jpg.html)

My free-state pistol:
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/Finkerfuggles/Firearms/97dd6b96-e152-4dcf-8202-f00d19392eb0_zps235af960.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/Finkerfuggles/media/Firearms/97dd6b96-e152-4dcf-8202-f00d19392eb0_zps235af960.jpg.html)

My free-state rifle:
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/Finkerfuggles/Firearms/71d96244-7f29-4742-bb78-c76eaf5ad88b_zpseb7b7588.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/Finkerfuggles/media/Firearms/71d96244-7f29-4742-bb78-c76eaf5ad88b_zpseb7b7588.jpg.html)

Kyle Reese

04-15-2014, 07:32 PM

Even with the passage of SB281, Marylanders can still buy HBAR AR15's, and possess mags of any capacity.

Up1911Fan

04-15-2014, 08:47 PM

I think CA is the main place where a Glock 37 ( 10 round 45 gap) might still make sense. That and the g26, or in my case a G19 cut down to 26-size.

If you reload the G37 could make a good ban state pistol.

LtDave

04-15-2014, 09:34 PM

How about a single stack SIG like a P239, P225, or P220. Beretta 92 Type M. HK P7m8 maybe?

okie john

04-15-2014, 10:21 PM

How about a single stack SIG like a P239, P225, or P220. Beretta 92 Type M. HK P7m8 maybe?

There's a thread on the P6, which is the German police version of the P-225. They're available as surplus, but apparently the P6/225 has magazine problems. Also, I think spare mags for the Beretta M are hard to find, and the P-7M8 is also getting hard to support. But the 239 and the 220 are both good calls.

Okie John

Savage Hands

04-15-2014, 11:26 PM

Helping out at my buddies shop in Nor Cal, I'll tell you that typical Glocks, XD's and Sig are the most popular handguns and low or high priced AR15/10's are still huge sellers while SCARS rarely stay in inventory very long. The amount of LWRC rifles (multiples of almost every configuration) sold out of this little shop would amaze the people who think Californians are stuck with bunk firearms.

45dotACP

04-15-2014, 11:45 PM

There's always Single Shot Exemption until the end of the year, past that we're looking for a win from S&W and Ruger to kill the draconian roster.

Edit: Californian's need to buy what handgun they want right now since I forgot about the up and coming legislation to kill SSE.

You've got my support from IL

Hey if we can get stupid laws knocked down anybody can. And hopefully with the ousting of that one Leland Yee guy up there who has a hard time practicing what he preaches, you guys can have a little momentum.

Back on topic. I had a Glock 21 that didn't show any significant problems with the supply of 10 round mags it came with. One of my favorite handguns no less. Cheers! Keep up the fight for your rights CA!

Savage Hands

04-15-2014, 11:58 PM

Thanks, I appreciate the support! With Smith, Ruger and the NRA fighting the roster I think we'll win eventually.

ScotchMan

04-16-2014, 09:48 AM

I live in a Socialist state. In New York, we can't have magazines over 10 rounds (pre-ban or not), and we have an assault weapon ban, which among other things, bans handguns over 50oz and/or with threaded barrels. Rifles are illegal if they are semi-auto, accept a detachable mag, and have just one of the evil cosmetic features, of which the pistol grip is one.

Many people use ingenuity to either make their ARs essentially bolt-action, or to permanently fix a magazine in there so no longer has a detachable mag. Beyond that, you can shoot for a Frankengun which does not have a pistol grip or collapsible stock or muzzle device. These things all potentially remove the assault weapon status, but nothing is certain until someone gets arrested with a modded-rifle and a ruling is made.

Having lived here for my entire life, I carry a P2000sk (10+1) or a Walther PPS (7+1), both in 9mm. I have an HK45 for home defense pistol (10+1). And I use a 12 gauge 870 (6 in the tube, 6 on the side saddle) as a primary HD weapon. I have bolt action rifles as well. A lot of people carry guns normally able to hold more than 10, with reduced capacity mags. I can't deal with the inefficiency of such an arrangement, so as you can tell from the above, I purchase guns that one way or another, are designed to hold 10 or less in the mag.

I used to have an AR but have basically opted out of the "do I want to be the test case with these modifications" game. I sold it for an $1,100 profit before the legislation passed. I have an assembled lower I am kind of sitting on. Yesterday I sold my Ruger 22/45 Lite, a .22LR target pistol which is an evil "assault pistol" because it has a threaded barrel. I refuse to grind off the threads or epoxy the thread protector on to an otherwise perfectly functional gun.

To answer the question generally, I think .45ACP is a lot more popular here because of its size-inefficiency (which, ironically, becomes a benefit). I don't think very many people are using ARs for HD. Even without the AWB, I would still use an 870, but that gets into a different conversation entirely.

Byron

04-16-2014, 10:02 AM

...a lever gun like this: http://lh6.ggpht.com/-8otmm0OUS8U/UwfemxyL0FI/AAAAAAAALsg/Smq0P_hsoDI/s1024/IMG_3089.jpg...
What rifle is that?
Is it actually fed with AR mags, or are those in the picture for size comparison?

Just saw this today, designed for California's whackyness:
http://www.guns.com/2014/04/11/stylish-new-featureless-ar-ares-defense-systems-video/
That's a fascinating innovation. I hope it proves to be reliable.

KevinB

04-16-2014, 12:48 PM

My solution to the ban state woes is to recommend folks to move... :o

I'd recommend to all the gun owning Californians to come to Virginia - as we need to get a few folks out of office that want to make this a ban state.
Also since California will someday soon fall into the ocean - the advantage on you not being there when it happens.

Guinnessman

04-16-2014, 04:46 PM

What rifle is that?
Is it actually fed with AR mags, or are those in the picture for size comparison?

That's a fascinating innovation. I hope it proves to be reliable.

I found that picture in the gallery at Superior Firearms: http://www.superiorfirearmsllc.com/

He has posted some of his work over at M4c.

Rich

04-16-2014, 07:15 PM

Winchester 30-30 lever action & Colt 70S 1911

Hell I`d feel fine with this set up here in SWF.

Would be nice to have a 18inch 12GA if Ca allows them.

Man I'm glad I don't live there.

hossb7

04-16-2014, 08:59 PM

Would be nice to have a 18inch 12GA if Ca allows them.

Man I'm glad I don't live there.

There are MANY states that are much worse than California - believe or not. NJ, NY, IL, MA just to name a few.

All legal in CA:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/hossb7/guns/IMG_20131223_223651_538.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/hossb7/guns/IMG_20131223_223753_578.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/hossb7/guns/IMG_20131223_224015_256.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/hossb7/guns/IMG_20131223_224132_012.jpg

It's not a difficult (or illegal) as many posters are making it out to seem. Yes, with current magazine restrictions a .45ACP semi auto (read: M&P45) makes a lot of sense.

TGS

04-16-2014, 09:55 PM

There are MANY states that are much worse than California - believe or not. NJ, NY, IL, MA just to name a few.

I would contest that.

First, IL doesn't even have a state AWB, mag cap limit, registration, ect.

Also, in NJ I can buy everything you posted, and without any bullet buttons. We have a roster of specifically banned rifles, but it is fairly limited concerning the state courts have ruled it overly vague....i.e. the HK91 is banned, but the PTR 91 or any other clone isn't. Otherwise, the gun shelves here are just as stocked with evil black rifles and shotguns of every variety as any other state. With the exception of NFA items, the only thing you're really losing out in NJ are stupid AR15/AK pistols and the Vepr-12.

Not that we're in an arms market haven here, but I think you've got just as much misinformation about various states' laws as the other posters you've commented on. Like I've said for a while now, gun owners in these states are more restrictive on themselves out of misinformation and ignorance than the actual governments are.

Dos Cylindros

04-16-2014, 11:32 PM

I would contest that.

First, IL doesn't even have a state AWB, mag cap limit, registration, ect.

Also, in NJ I can buy everything you posted, and without any bullet buttons. We have a roster of specifically banned rifles, but it is fairly limited concerning the state courts have ruled it overly vague....i.e. the HK91 is banned, but the PTR 91 or any other clone isn't. Otherwise, the gun shelves here are just as stocked with evil black rifles and shotguns of every variety as any other state. With the exception of NFA items, the only thing you're really losing out in NJ are stupid AR15/AK pistols and the Vepr-12.

Not that we're in an arms market haven here, but I think you've got just as much misinformation about various states' laws as the other posters you've commented on. Like I've said for a while now, gun owners in these states are more restrictive on themselves out of misinformation and ignorance than the actual governments are.

I agree. I live in CA, and I'm a California LEO. With the recent enactment of the micro stamping law and the virtually assured passage of the ban on single shot exemptions starting next year, CA has effectively banned all new handgun sales in the state. I can only hope we prevail in the sure to come litigation.

That being said, single shot exempt an HK45 and an HK45c while you still can. As far as long guns go, get an M1A or equivalent, along with a decent shotgun and call it a day. Move away as soon as you retire or before if possible.

45dotACP

04-16-2014, 11:56 PM

There are MANY states that are much worse than California - believe or not. NJ, NY, IL, MA just to name a few.

Well, Illinois isn't too shabby. We just got CCW, and we have no AWB....granted a CCW permit is eleventy billion dollars compared to other states.

Magic_Salad0892

04-17-2014, 01:52 AM

If anybody thinks there are worse states than CA, or NY (with NY being slightly worse) then you're delusional.

Suvorov

04-17-2014, 02:08 AM

As a subject in one of the aforementioned States, I figured I'd throw in my $0.02 before the thread reaches 5 pages or goes sideways. I can only comment on Kalifornia since I am not intimately familiar with the laws in NJ, NY, and occupied New England.

As far as pistols go, the current situation is in flux with so many pistols falling off the roster and the state of the roster as well as the SSE about to be challenged. That said, there are still some good handguns on the roster and the used pistol market is robust as long as you are willing to pay for what you want. Most legacy pistol platforms (Beretta, Glock Gen3, Sig P) are still available and many folks "acquired" standard capacity mags for them before Y2K, so they remain quite viable. For folks that didn't "acquire" these magazines or who want to run newer platforms, the 10 round limit is in place and to me, you have to weigh the benefits of the pistol over a legacy design against the reduction in ammo on board.

.45s may be popular due to the fact that most are 10 round or fewer pistols. That said, the average Joe (and I'm an average Joe) can most likely shoot a 9mm better than a .45 and thus is still probably better served with a 9mm utilizing 10 round magazines. In this case, the medium frame guns (USPc, Glock19) are probably the better way to go as they are more size/capacity efficient unless you have a real desire for a full sized auto or want the longer sight radius.

For long guns, my feeling is that the only real difference for Kalifornia gunnies is at what threat level they reach for the AR. With Kalifornia legal ARs you can either have drop free magazines and messed up ergonomics, or a bullet button and the ergonomics that make the AR such a great gun. For me, I've tried both and find the bullet button rifled does more of what I need my AR to do than a "featureless" rifle does. The bullet button does have some serious drawbacks as a SD/HD rifle so you are left with either spending a lot of time getting good using a bullet button (there are guys that can swap mags real fast with them) or disabling the bullet button and taking your chances with the law. As a result, myself and most guys I know see the AR as a SHTF rifle that will be brought out for serious use in a post disaster (big quake or big riot), configured as Mr Stoner intended, and then returned to the f-ed up configuration once the Police had regained control of the area. For folks who want to use a center fire rifle for SD/HD, there are also the Mini14s, KelTecs, M1 carbines, and M1/M1a's.

Shotguns have almost no real restrictions and my go-to SD/HD long gun is a Remington 1187P. I certainly feel that I have enough gun to handle most conceivable home security situations.

Not that I like the "man" limiting my options and flagrantly violating my 2A rights in reality, there are still plenty of viable options available for subjects living in Kalifornia.

Savage Hands

04-17-2014, 09:34 AM

I agree. I live in CA, and I'm a California LEO. With the recent enactment of the micro stamping law and the virtually assured passage of the ban on single shot exemptions starting next year, CA has effectively banned all new handgun sales in the state. I can only hope we prevail in the sure to come litigation.
That being said, single shot exempt an HK45 and an HK45c while you still can. As far as long guns go, get an M1A or equivalent, along with a decent shotgun and call it a day. Move away as soon as you retire or before if possible.

The Dem's went to far with this one and will lose the war when the roster is eliminated, just like banning Unloaded or Loaded Open Carry but not issuing CCW's either though the litigation continues.

Dos Cylindros

04-17-2014, 02:58 PM

The Dem's went to far with this one and will lose the war when the roster is eliminated, just like banning Unloaded or Loaded Open Carry but not issuing CCW's either though the litigation continues.

I would tend to agree with you sir, and I pray that you are correct. The laws here are simply unconstitutional and an obvious attempt at the outright ban of privately owned firearms.

ScotchMan

04-18-2014, 08:30 AM

Things seem to be going swimmingly here in NY. They tossed out the "only load your 10 round magazines with 7 rounds" BS, but everything else has stuck. The problem is mobilizing our forces; easily half the gun owners don't know what's going on, or don't care. Their bolt-action .308s and skeet guns aren't affected, and who needs an AR-15 anyway? We've got maybe 10-20% of gun owners actively fighting this law. When you consider that all of the antis aren't fighting, and most of the gun owners aren't fighting, its a pretty bleak outlook.

The really scary part is that these states are the testing ground for future national legislation. I really hope the NRA is doing everything it can to fight the laws in the handful of states that are really pushing the limits now, because if not this is the shape of things to come for all of us.

Mitchell, Esq.

04-18-2014, 08:43 AM

If anybody thinks there are worse states than CA, or NY (with NY being slightly worse) then you're delusional.

I raise you Connecticut.

I tried a 9mm shield. It didn't work out for me, then got a killer deal on a HK45c, so I took it.

Tamara

04-18-2014, 08:52 AM

Well, Illinois isn't too shabby. We just got CCW, and we have no AWB....granted a CCW permit is eleventy billion dollars compared to other states.

The only bad things in IL are the carry laws (which are being rectified slowly) and the ridiculous requirement to have a "FOID" to even think about guns. Oh, and no NFA.

Just fifteen years ago, Indiana was a haven of normalcy between a brace of anti-gun SSRs, and now I have realistic hope of being able to drive places without having to detour around OH or IL.

GardoneVT

04-18-2014, 08:53 AM

The Dem's went to far with this one and will lose the war when the roster is eliminated, just like banning Unloaded or Loaded Open Carry but not issuing CCW's either though the litigation continues.

They've already lost- as they never had a case to begin with.

Regrettably, that doesn't stop the antis from running the clock down in court. It took Chicago almost 10 years to go from "no handguns allowed to peons, ever" (as connected people and Aldermen were allowed to CCW ) to "Bring your Glock to Michigan Ave, no police creds needed."

Shall issue will come to CA and other anti rights areas, but Bowsers not gonna give up the castle without a fight. Id give it seven years between a court saying to CAs government "Thou Shalt Respect The Constitution" ,and an ordinary man being able to walk down Sunset Blvd. lawfully armed.

Tamara

04-18-2014, 09:01 AM

FWIW, you can carry your gun on the streets with a permit in Chicago now, but good luck actually bringing it inside anyplace. RUMINT from our mole in Hyde Park has favorable results on code inspections for property management companies tied to the presence of No Totin' signs on the properties they manage.

Savage Hands

04-18-2014, 09:24 AM

They've already lost- as they never had a case to begin with.

Regrettably, that doesn't stop the antis from running the clock down in court. It took Chicago almost 10 years to go from "no handguns allowed to peons, ever" (as connected people and Aldermen were allowed to CCW ) to "Bring your Glock to Michigan Ave, no police creds needed."

Shall issue will come to CA and other anti rights areas, but Bowsers not gonna give up the castle without a fight. Id give it seven years between a court saying to CAs government "Thou Shalt Respect The Constitution" ,and an ordinary man being able to walk down Sunset Blvd. lawfully armed.

I have no reason to walk down Sunset Blvd. but my CA CCW does allow me to carry there or any other non-prohibited area, getting them issued to all the Coastal County residents will take a little while.

GardoneVT

04-18-2014, 09:29 AM

I have no reason to walk down Sunset Blvd. but my CA CCW does allow me to carry there or any other non-prohibited area, getting them issued to all the Coastal County residents will take a little while.

Even for folks who live in pro-issuance counties, reform is still a good thing.

As things stand now, should an anti gun Sheriff get elected in your county, your CCW days will come to a screetching halt with no effective recourse. If I recall that's basically what happened to Orange County before the recent policy reversal after Peruta.

Doug

04-19-2014, 11:53 AM

It depends, visiting or living in the state.

For Califorina the laws require multiplied flow charts and a "shade tree" law degree if you want to push the envelope.

http://www.ar15fornoobs.com/wp-content/uploads/flowchart-300x231.png

Out of staters Visiting CA for HG, bring whatever normal handgun, but leave the 10+ round mags at home and you wont be able to carry and need to have it locked in a secure container while traveling. (Those that resided, pre 2000, have mag options but probably know that.)

Out of staters visiting CA for rifle, go to Calguns and be confused at first. You can get more than you think but can bring a semi auto but the rifle won't either be pretty "featureless" or it will increase your manipulation time "mag lock".

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z69/guncobook/Page1-3/SAI-CA01.jpg

If you want no questions asked by law enforcement for the most part on your semi auto rifle with detachable mag, ie no AR or AK, you will be limited to for Benelli MR1 with comfortech (AR Mags), Kel Tec SU 16 (AR Mags), Mini 14, M1A/14 type with no FH, V grips, etc... None are that appealing.

I think this is an Anti gun pic from NY newspaper whining about loopholes but same theory here in CA.
http://nomorecocktails.com/images/Bennelli.jpg

They tried to ban all semi auto rifles last year in CA but got vetoed.

If you want to be safe in the future if they get their ban, live or travel, pretend you are Clint Eastwood w/M1 Garand and 1911 are GTG.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_v6Vx4TUIw6Y/SVN9s0mVEzI/AAAAAAAABGg/W7wh0xGYQx4/s400/eastwood+with+garand.jpg

Savage Hands

04-19-2014, 12:13 PM

Or just run a normal looking AR with a Bullet Button and 10 round magazine so it doesn't look retarded:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/559013_843195845697300_74625341_n.jpg

Even my "basic" AR looks ok:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/IMG_20120805_140226_zps94d00c1e.jpg

Tamara

04-19-2014, 01:08 PM

Or just run a normal looking AR with a Bullet Button and 10 round magazine

How's that affect reload times?

Savage Hands

04-19-2014, 01:20 PM

How's that affect reload times?

It affects them a bunch, but you already know that. But since they are range toys or at worst a SHTF gun it's something I've learned to deal with.

My HD gun is a G17 with 23 rounds before I need to reload and is in the same configuration as the rest of the free states. Reloads with it is fantastic.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/IMG_20131216_154432_zpsvqtu0kun.jpg

Tamara

04-19-2014, 01:28 PM

It affects them a bunch, but you already know that.

No, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I've never used one, and I'm wondering what kind of work-arounds folks have done, what with necessity being a mother, and all.

How hard it it to manipulate? Is it worth carrying a dummy 5.56 round in a loop on the inside of your off-hand wrist, in a manner similar to the wrist cartridge carriers used by Contender/Encore or double rifle shooters?

hossb7

04-19-2014, 01:36 PM

How's that affect reload times?

:confused: Really?

hossb7

04-19-2014, 01:38 PM

No, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I've never used one, and I'm wondering what kind of work-arounds folks have done, what with necessity being a mother, and all.

How hard it it to manipulate? Is it worth carrying a dummy 5.56 round in a loop on the inside of your off-hand wrist, in a manner similar to the wrist cartridge carriers used by Contender/Encore or double rifle shooters?

I posted before i saw this.

Yes, there are a lot of work arounds that people have made. One that i particularly like is a dummy 5.56 round on a retractable keychain that clips to your clothes. grab the bullet, press the button, let go (it zips back in) and reload.

the reality is, unless you have a gun equipped with a MMG so you have drop mags -OR- have a registered assault weapon, most people don't use AR pattern rifles for defense because it's not logical.

Savage Hands

04-19-2014, 01:42 PM

No, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I've never used one, and I'm wondering what kind of work-arounds folks have done, what with necessity being a mother, and all.

How hard it it to manipulate? Is it worth carrying a dummy 5.56 round in a loop on the inside of your off-hand wrist, in a manner similar to the wrist cartridge carriers used by Contender/Encore or double rifle shooters?

My bad, we Californian's get so much shit over it we tend to see snark when it isn't always there. I haven't looked for a fast way to disengage it but there are plenty of methods out there from rings to protruding mag bases. There are some classes are tailored around bullet button guns but I don't feel like wasting my money on one. If I'm going to train it will be around marksmanship or defensive uses with a handgun since that's what I carry and mainly use in my home with my living situation. If I ever move from here again, I may take a tactical fantasy camp for the hell of it.

Tamara

04-19-2014, 01:52 PM

Wasn't necessarily referring to defense; I honestly had no idea if some Cali-specific variant of carbine games had sprung up. I mean, look at all the exotic manuals of arms that have sprung up for Winchester '87s & '97s and SxS shotguns because of SASS.

Savage Hands

04-19-2014, 01:55 PM

Some of the California specific stuff was posted above with those ridiculous grips, I'd just get a min 14 at that point lol.

Savage Hands

04-19-2014, 02:03 PM

What I made the mistake of is not getting a RAW/Registered Assault Weapon like many of my friends that compete in 3 Gun and train with their normal AR’s.

Doug

04-19-2014, 04:09 PM

Some of the California specific stuff was posted above with those ridiculous grips, I'd just get a min 14 at that point lol.

Function over looks. Take a Frank Proctor course or run some 3 gun matches with the featureless set up of your choice. Like anything one will adapt and times or scores will be similar.

The thordsen custom stock is the latest and greatest but fugly yet allows the greatest control & manipulation of safety though on a featureless run an ambi.

http://siterepository.s3.amazonaws.com/2675/lop_20130427141528.jpg

YMMV

Savage Hands

04-19-2014, 05:56 PM

Function over looks. Take a Frank Proctor course or run some 3 gun matches with the featureless set up of your choice. Like anything one will adapt and times or scores will be similar.

The thordsen custom stock is the latest and greatest but fugly yet allows the greatest control & manipulation of safety though on a featureless run an ambi.

http://siterepository.s3.amazonaws.com/2675/lop_20130427141528.jpg

YMMV

If that's what you want to do than knock yourself out, I already indicated my position on this subject. I won't be carrying an AR anytime soon so I'll stick with my Glock 19 and related training.