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View Full Version : Shooting N Frames in Elmer Keith Country



Lost River
04-03-2014, 08:39 PM
I did not want to hijack the other thread about the Model 27, so I started this one for the subject of longer range sixgunning with PRACTICAL, belt portable rigs.

I am a long time fan of the .44 mag, and the Model 29 Smith is my favorite of the various ones I own.

Last summer a friend came to visit and he brought his .41 mag along. I took my custom 5" M29 as well as my old 6.5" 29-2.

We set targets out on the the Mackay Reservoir, where the water had receded. We had targets all the way out to 500 yards and would spot for each other as we figured out the holdover and walked rounds onto target. GREAT FUN hitting a 5 gallon bucket sized target at 450 and 500 yards!

My 5" 29 and powder marks from bracing the revolver between the knees:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/CylinderGapCarbon_zpsf45a92ab.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/CylinderGapCarbon_zpsf45a92ab.jpg.html)

The flats of the reservoir:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/mackayres4_zpsc8ff3656.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/mackayres4_zpsc8ff3656.jpg.html)

Shady spot from which we launched lead:

I will note that you can get 550 rounds of .44 mag into a tall folgers coffee can.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/MackayRes2_zps3312ea6a.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/MackayRes2_zps3312ea6a.jpg.html)

Lost River
04-03-2014, 08:44 PM
These were taken at HorseHeaven Pass on the Pahsimeroi Range, which was a favorite hunting spot for Elmer Keith, when out rolling big high desert Jackrabbits.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/P1000373_zps60c7c792.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/P1000373_zps60c7c792.jpg.html)

My 5" 29-2 at an old trappers cabin:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/P1000377_zps80c1047b.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/P1000377_zps80c1047b.jpg.html)


We ranged our targets out to the mid 400s here. There was enough dust raised when fired as to be able to quickly walk rounds onto target.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/P1000371_zps7e7a8f96.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/P1000371_zps7e7a8f96.jpg.html)

Lost River
04-03-2014, 08:47 PM
This is my old 6.5" 29-2 that I have put untold amounts of round through. Still a favorite for purely handgun hunting:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/P1000361_zps2ddda3f6.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/P1000361_zps2ddda3f6.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/P1000356_zpsc588aab4.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/P1000356_zpsc588aab4.jpg.html)

Finding some shade at a spring fed stock tank:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/P1000378_zps3fa959cd.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/P1000378_zps3fa959cd.jpg.html)

41magfan
04-03-2014, 08:51 PM
Cool pics of some great real-estate ..... is that a Weigand front sight on your 5"?

Lost River
04-03-2014, 09:14 PM
Yes 41 it is and I am very pleased with the quality and ease of swapping front sights.

My friend who visited from back east was carrying his .41. He is a hard core .41 shooter and sings the praises of the often overlooked caliber.

He was so enamored with the country he is planning on packing up and moving to the area. A fine choice. :)

Malamute
04-03-2014, 10:10 PM
Looks like nice country. I was looking around Salmon years ago, but settled elsewhere. Spent the night on Keiths old place up the North Fork, there was a hippy sort of guy renting it, this was in about '87 maybe?

I'm a long time fan of the 29, I've had a few different guns. I've mostly carried the 4". I (foolishly) sold a nice 6 1/2" nickel gun, and a 6 1/2" 4 screw.

Do you shoot any one handed? The guys in this neighborhood were doing it a bit when I moved here, I started messing with it some, doing most of my practice one handed for a few years. It adds some difficulty for longer distances, but makes you really focus on sight alignment and trigger letoff. I don't shoot full power stuff one handed, just medium loads and self loaders.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1299.jpg

GJM
04-03-2014, 10:16 PM
Beautiful area and pictures -- thanks for posting. I have hunted the Middle Fork of the Salmon multiple times for elk and flown back there a lot. N frame info -- shot a mule deer with my 329 back there, using the Garrett Defender load.

Totem Polar
04-03-2014, 10:16 PM
Horse Heaven is some gorgeous country. I used to backpack out there as a kid. Awesome photos; thanks for posting.

Drang
04-03-2014, 10:22 PM
I'm not sure if Will DeRuyter is still holding his Elmer Keith Memorial Shoot on the east side of WA or not. Haven't heard, but I lost touch with the gang from the Boeing Employee Rifle and Pistol Club a few years ago.
A good description from the 8th event here (http://hosting.albroswift.com/EK-8.Report.htm). You get 1000 points for hitting the hill...

Totem Polar
04-04-2014, 01:37 AM
I'm not sure if Will DeRuyter is still holding his Elmer Keith Memorial Shoot on the east side of WA or not. Haven't heard, but I lost touch with the gang from the Boeing Employee Rifle and Pistol Club a few years ago.
A good description from the 8th event here (http://hosting.albroswift.com/EK-8.Report.htm). You get 1000 points for hitting the hill...
I know a couple of the guys in that write up; Terry Rogers still owns a friendly LGS that sucks money out of my wallet from time to time. I'll ask around.

Chuck Haggard
04-04-2014, 02:04 AM
Some great pics in this thread. Thanks for posting.

JHC
04-04-2014, 07:20 AM
Looks like nice country. I was looking around Salmon years ago, but settled elsewhere. Spent the night on Keiths old place up the North Fork, there was a hippy sort of guy renting it, this was in about '87 maybe?

I'm a long time fan of the 29, I've had a few different guns. I've mostly carried the 4". I (foolishly) sold a nice 6 1/2" nickel gun, and a 6 1/2" 4 screw.

Do you shoot any one handed? The guys in this neighborhood were doing it a bit when I moved here, I started messing with it some, doing most of my practice one handed for a few years. It adds some difficulty for longer distances, but makes you really focus on sight alignment and trigger letoff. I don't shoot full power stuff one handed, just medium loads and self loaders.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1299.jpg

If there exists a more beautiful Model 29, to my eyes, I've not yet seen it.

LSP552
04-04-2014, 07:25 AM
Very nice pictures, thanks for sharing. Nice guns too!

Ken

GJM
04-04-2014, 07:27 AM
Hope everyone noted the snake shot on the belt with his 29.

Lost River
04-04-2014, 07:51 AM
Malamute,

I do a bit of one handed shooting, though like you, I limit to light and medium loads. Mostly I just use both hands. lately I have been practicing, even with the heavies, shooting DAO. Iv'e noted that your hand position/grip is a bit more consistent, as compared to single action. That being said, I do thumb cock a lot of my longer range shots at small critters.

Salmon and the surrounding area is one of my favorite parts of the state. North Fork is still pretty tiny. My place is further south, at the head of the Lost River Range. No shortage of long range rifle and pistol shooting opportunities.

I have never attended the E.K. Memorial shoot. Back before Cabelas of Boise opened, there was a corner of the county Museum in Salmon dedicated to Keith. It was not much of a display, but overall a pretty neat little museum. Just south, in Mackay (which is a cool little cow town) is the Custer County museum. It is well worth it to stop on a trip through the area to see it. The whole area has a rich mining and ranching history and the little local museum is worth the price of a donation. If you like old cowboy stuff, you will LOVE it.

Just to keep the pics going, here is my 29-2 4". It has NOWHERE near the character of Malamutes. Let me get back to everyone in 25 years and then we will see if it is approaching the "old school cool" of that well worn 29 posted above.

I run my N frames in Milt Sparks leather, which I am totally biased in favor of, after using Sparks gear for more than 20 years.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/CityOfRocks208.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/CityOfRocks208.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/CityOfRocks197.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/CityOfRocks197.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/CityOfRocks198.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/CityOfRocks198.jpg.html)

Lost River
04-04-2014, 08:02 AM
The above 4" pics were taken at the City of Rocks national park. A few more from that trip.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/CityOfRocks180.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/CityOfRocks180.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/CityOfRocks181.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/CityOfRocks181.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/CityOfRocks194.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/CityOfRocks194.jpg.html)

This is a great spot to ride through and check out. Very scenic. I was running my 4" 29 that day, though due to the dust, a Glock may have been a better choice..

A fair # of jackrabbits in the area, but due to the setting and tourists in the area who would likely wig out if I started launching big chunks of lead, I chose to let them go.

Beautiful place. Next time I am bringing a suppressed .22 pistol. ;)

Lost River
04-04-2014, 08:09 AM
A favorite winter pastime of mine is busting bunnies. I normally only shoot jacks, and leave Cottontails alone unless I am going to eat them. The pretty much only exist to be food for everything else, so I give them a break, unless I am hungry.

Here is an old pic of a cold, but sunny winter day and rolling a few with my first 5" 29. It is the "Classic" full underlug version. Truly a spectacular sidearm and seriously accurate. It makes me look like a much better shooter than I am.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/dec2006232-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/dec2006232-1.jpg.html)

In this pic I was hungry so a couple Cottontails were taken and I fashioned up a barbed wire grill to roast them over. They needed a touch of salt, but overall were pretty tasty.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/sanitizedCottontailGrilling.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/sanitizedCottontailGrilling.jpg.html)

On another trip these were taken. It was a pretty cold day. around -10 to -15 and with a slight wind, which made finger get fairly cold quickly. We kept warm though, post holing through the deep powder.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/026-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/026-1.jpg.html)

Lost River
04-04-2014, 08:15 AM
Hope everyone noted the snake shot on the belt with his 29.

I did note that. I've been meaning to make up some snakeshot loads myself. Need to get after that as the damned things will be out soon in the low country. I vaguely recall John Taffin writing an article about rolling your own snake loads. May be time to search for it.

Cheap Shot
04-04-2014, 11:26 AM
The pictures in this thread are pretty compelling evidence of a life well lived.

Malamute
04-04-2014, 12:02 PM
I keep the first round up a birdshot load when its snake season and area. One is plenty so far. I used to keep a 2" 38 in my back pocket with birdshot loads the first couple up, but tend to keep the belt gun on more often since the bears have been expanding their range. The Speer capsules work well, I think I used No 9 shot for a dense pattern. One box has lasted a long time. I also keep round ball loads for some of my rifles, they work great on snakes and don't make much noise. I have them for 30-30, 348 and 45-70. I made up some shot loads in 45-70, but there isn't much need with a pistol or round ball load. The patterns blow pretty quickly in a rifled barrel, 10-15 feet is about it for useful range with any I've tried. 410 shells work in a 45-70 also, but don't always extract well. Same deal, the patterns aren't great, I gave up on them.

This is one of the local shooting spots, we have round plates at 300 and 600 yards. The 300 was about 18", now its about 20" I think. The 600 is about 22". I shoot about everything at the 300, it isn't all that tough to hit once you settle down and focus. It's the primary one handed pistol target for me. I tried the 600 once, with a g-19. I had a spotter, and cheated, I was kneeling and used two hands. I hit it once in 10 rds with calls from the spotter. Those small bullets don't show much dirt or dust. I need to try it with some other handgun stuff. The other rocks and clumps of brush make decent targets also.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/Shootingspot.jpg

Whats your medium load? I settled on 9 grs Unique with the Lyman 429421, or whatever commercial swc I found locally. It makes longer range hits vastly easier than the 44 spl level loads, but not as unpleasant as full power loads. 22 grs 2400 with the Lyman bullet, or sometimes a heavier bullet is my mountain carry load. I have a few 290 gr Lyman/Keith look-alikes that shoot well. With 18 1/2 grs 2400 they clocked at 1225 fps with about 25 fps max deviation in a 6" gun.

Wheeler
04-04-2014, 12:31 PM
Beautiful country. Thanks for sharing your pictures. My brother has a 6" Model 29 that I've been trying to bamboozle him out of for a few years now. Until that time I'll have to 'settle' for my 4" Model 28.

JHC
04-04-2014, 12:37 PM
Lost River, you mentioned in a caption, "smoked up trousers" from the braced between the knees sitting position - I love shooting like that. I swear it's steadier than off a rest on a bench. Lean back into a pack or tree etc and clamp those knees around the hands. I tried to use it in a 3 gun match that had a stage that required knocking down multiple 8" plates at 60 yards with the pistol to stop time; but the RO had heart failure over my feet being out front. So we went another way on that.

Reminds me though of the recent discussion of Cooper's four rules etc. It never occurred me growing up that this position was the least bit of a violation of anything, including those four. Just don't screw it up!

GJM
04-04-2014, 01:05 PM
This is turning into one of my all time favorite PF threads. I just love that part of the world. Here I am shooting a 5x5 elk at just over 400 yards with a .270WSM, back in that country.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IDelkshot_zps187bb5cb.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/IDelkshot_zps187bb5cb.jpg.html)

Tamara
04-04-2014, 05:27 PM
I'd like to get out that way some time. Closest I've come is the other end of the west, shooting my Model 544 off Art Eatman's front porch down in Terlingua. It seemed to be the appropriate wheelgun for the trip.

2243

JHC
04-04-2014, 06:13 PM
544? What is that??? :D I'm gonna have to search that one.

Tamara
04-04-2014, 06:26 PM
544? What is that??? :D I'm gonna have to search that one.

Model 544 (http://cosmolineandrust.blogspot.com/2007/12/sunday-smith-26-model-544-1986.html): Modern N-frames don't come much more hipster than one in .44-40. :)

Malamute
04-04-2014, 08:38 PM
Which reminds me,.....those two boxes of 44-40 factory loads I mentioned a couple years ago were gone when I went back. :(

Tamara
04-04-2014, 10:30 PM
Which reminds me,.....those two boxes of 44-40 factory loads I mentioned a couple years ago were gone when I went back. :(

'Salright. The only chamberings in which my ratio of "on-hand ammo" to "guns actually owned in that caliber" are even more out of whack are probably .22 Rem Jet and .32-20. ;)

SeriousStudent
04-04-2014, 10:41 PM
I'd like to get out that way some time. Closest I've come is the other end of the west, shooting my Model 544 off Art Eatman's front porch down in Terlingua. It seemed to be the appropriate wheelgun for the trip.


I used to live down the road from there, in the bustling metropolis of Lajitas. I miss that area terribly.

Lost River
04-05-2014, 03:15 PM
Beautiful country. Thanks for sharing your pictures. My brother has a 6" Model 29 that I've been trying to bamboozle him out of for a few years now. Until that time I'll have to 'settle' for my 4" Model 28.

Thanks for the kind words Friend.

I am an unabashed fan of Elmers favorite caiber. That being said, there are no flies on a fine old Model 28. I normally hunt rabbits with light .44 mag loads, but lately I have been loading up and shooting .38 special 145 grain DE wadcutters. I loaded them for my J frame but will likely run some in other guns like my old 1930s Colt Official Police, for hunting desert Jackrabbits. Wadcutters really do a number on them. You cant stop grinning when you roll one with a wadcutter out of an old "obsolete" handgun. At least I cant. :)

Lost River
04-05-2014, 03:22 PM
The 5" 29-2 started out as this guy:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/montanaIdaho085.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/montanaIdaho085.jpg.html)

I was heading back from visiting a friend in Montana, and spent two days and a night on the Pahsimeroi goofing off. These ground squirrels look untouched because I was aiming low, as they would hide behind their dirt mounds. If you hit just below them, the bullet travels through the dirt mound and launches them into the air, killing them stone dead. LOADS of fun competing with yourself in the "Ground Squirrel Olympics". :)


This is the result of a medium range hit with a hot loaded 185 grain jacketed/exposed lead hollowpoint. I was burning up a couple boxes I had left and Mr. bunny came into range just before supper time.....

While the head was gone, the good meat was still intact.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/montanaIdaho091.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/montanaIdaho091.jpg.html)

Slow cook with some soup and it is back country gourmet!! :)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/montanaIdaho092.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/montanaIdaho092.jpg.html)

Lost River
04-05-2014, 03:27 PM
Lost River, you mentioned in a caption, "smoked up trousers" from the braced between the knees sitting position - I love shooting like that. I swear it's steadier than off a rest on a bench. Lean back into a pack or tree etc and clamp those knees around the hands. I tried to use it in a 3 gun match that had a stage that required knocking down multiple 8" plates at 60 yards with the pistol to stop time; but the RO had heart failure over my feet being out front. So we went another way on that.

Reminds me though of the recent discussion of Cooper's four rules etc. It never occurred me growing up that this position was the least bit of a violation of anything, including those four. Just don't screw it up!

I agree you have to pay attention, but I (like you) find the braced shooting position to be very effective. I like to lean against the tire/wheel of my pickup, or against a tree/boulder, whatever.

People usually call BS when you say you can usually hit a 5 gallon bucket at 300 yards with a round from the first cylinder full. I must admit it makes me grin to see their face when you or someone else shows them what can be done at extended ranges, with consistent technique.

Lost River
04-05-2014, 03:28 PM
This is turning into one of my all time favorite PF threads. I just love that part of the world. Here I am shooting a 5x5 elk at just over 400 yards with a .270WSM, back in that country.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/IDelkshot_zps187bb5cb.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/IDelkshot_zps187bb5cb.jpg.html)

GJM,

That is a great photo! So many things are just right with it. Congrats on your Idaho Elk!

GJM,

I forgot to comment about you using a 329 and Garrett ammo. Garrett loads are not for the recoil shy and to shoot them out of a 329 is getting smack dab in the middle of brutal recoil I would imagine, based on shooting 329s with standard pressure loads. I consider the 329 a great candidate for mid range and light loads. Kind of like a magnum chambered .44 special.

Do you have any pics of you Muley?

Lost River
04-05-2014, 03:42 PM
Whats your medium load? I settled on 9 grs Unique with the Lyman 429421, or whatever commercial swc I found locally. It makes longer range hits vastly easier than the 44 spl level loads, but not as unpleasant as full power loads. 22 grs 2400 with the Lyman bullet, or sometimes a heavier bullet is my mountain carry load. I have a few 290 gr Lyman/Keith look-alikes that shoot well. With 18 1/2 grs 2400 they clocked at 1225 fps with about 25 fps max deviation in a 6" gun.


Years ago I settled on 3 main loads for my .44 mags here they are:


#1 = 8.5 grains Unique with 240/250 grain cast SWC loads for light loads. Great for focusing on the fundamentals of marksmanship and getting back into shooting large frame revolvers if I have been busy elsewhere. Great load for introducing shooters to big revolvers, and for rolling rabbits in the off season.

#2 = 10 grains Unique with 240/250 grain cast SWC loads for mid level/everyday loads. These work perfect for Idaho Mule deer, hogs, etc. Excellent GP loads

#3 = 22.5 grains H110 with 300 to 320 grain cast SWC loads for anything heavy, such as elk or dinosaurs.


Those three loads will do pretty much everything you will ever need to do with a .44.

In reality, 95% of all of most people's needs can be met with the mid level, 10 grain Unique load.


I do not shoot too many of the heavy loads through my Smiths. That being said, they are not nearly as fragile as the internet has given them a reputation for being.

While I would not pound many thousands of hot 320 grain loads through my Smiths, practicing and then regulating the sights for big game season are no issue.

Most of the time I shoot the mid level loads, with 10 grains Unique through my Smiths.

GJM
04-05-2014, 04:08 PM
GJM,

That is a great photo! So many things are just right with it. Congrats on your Idaho Elk!

GJM,

I forgot to comment about you using a 329 and Garrett ammo. Garrett loads are not for the recoil shy and to shoot them out of a 329 is getting smack dab in the middle of brutal recoil I would imagine, based on shooting 329s with standard pressure loads. I consider the 329 a great candidate for mid range and light loads. Kind of like a magnum chambered .44 special.

Do you have any pics of you Muley?

I was shooting the Garrett "Defender" load which is designed for the 329 and mountain gun. The Defender load is 300 something at about 1,020 fps. Wouldn't shoot full power Garrett out of a 329 on a bet. Will have to look for a photo.

Dagga Boy
04-05-2014, 05:55 PM
I was shooting the Garrett "Defender" load which is designed for the 329 and mountain gun. The Defender load is 300 something at about 1,020 fps. Wouldn't shoot full power Garrett out of a 329 on a bet. Will have to look for a photo.

I just had my 3" 629 out yesterday. Shot around 30 rounds of Remington factory 240's, usually with only 3 to 4 live rounds and spinning the cylinder after every shot to get rid of any flinch. My 329 Night Guard has yet to be shot........because its a scary thought. I will look into those Defender loads as they sound about perfect as many of my .44 Mag S&W's are short barreled guns. I have a bunch of Ruger S/A's for the really heavy .44 stuff.

GJM
04-05-2014, 06:58 PM
Darryl, I think you will find the a Defender load perfect in the 3-4 inch N frame .44's. Randy Garrett says the load will reliably penetrate the skull of a brown bear. This is my Nightguard .44 magnum. I shoehorned on K/L frame grips to be able to fit it in a fanny pack. It ain't fun to shoot with the Garrett ammo but it is doable. When I check loads with the Scandium .44's, I often alternate from right to left hand every shot or two, to distribute the pain.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/329_zpsc7989380.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/329_zpsc7989380.jpg.html)

Lost River
04-06-2014, 10:40 AM
That is a seriously cool .44 and would be perfect for lightweight carry when hunting or backpacking. I should pick one of those up so.e day soon.

Dagga Boy
04-06-2014, 01:45 PM
They are really neat guns, and not made any longer. They really are an excellent evolution of the defensive revolver. The key is to finding the right loads for these that will take advantage of their caliber, while being shoot able. Also, what I want for a "counter car jacking load vs. A counter Grizzly load are very different. For me, I have a Ruger Alaskan that is my current favorite "Fishing Gun" as it handles .454 Casul really well. My N frames tend to be geared towards two leggers.

Will_H
04-06-2014, 07:05 PM
I just have to say, You guys are a real inspiration. That's the good life, right there!