Ruger Gunsite Scout

[LSP552]

For some strange reason, I handled one in the fun store the other day. I have hunting rifles and fighting rifles so why am thinking about one these? Plinking and truck gun? Thanks for your comments about the rifle or concept.

Ken

[GJM]

I think it is a nice practical rifle …. unless you have experienced a real, model 70 based practical rifle, at which point you will likely hold your nose with the Ruger and consider it more or less junk. Biggest problem is you can't run the action like a model 70. Further down the list, the reserve sights are not first rate, the rail and mounting is goofy, big magazines ruin the handling of that kind of rifle, the stock is not in the same league with a Brown Precision or equivalent, and the barrel is basic Ruger -- meaning about $25 worth of barrel. Other than that, it is fine.

[GJM]

To not leave this on a negative note, here is my suggestion if you do want a quality practical rifle for similar or less dollars than the Ruger. Find a pre-64 model 70 featherweight in .30-06, cut the length of pull to 13.0 inches, mount a Leupold 1.5-5 or 1.75-6, add an Andy Langlois Ching sling (using the stock front and rear swivels plus adding one intermediate stud), add a bit of weaver rail to the fore end for taking a Surefire, and take a Randy Cain practical rifle class. If you want to go big, put the Leupold in QD rings (Talley or equivalent) and also mount an Aimpoint PRO in a 30 mm ring, that you can switch out with the Leupold, in case you want to use the rifle like a M4. You will have a real rifle, that handles like a dream, can be run vigorously, and will do practical rifle tasks right up to any game in North America. Randy will, in three days, help you get the most of of the practical bolt as a social rifle.

[justintime]

I've used one a little bit while brush hunting. I have a vortex 1-4 mounted on it right now. I think it's a handy rifle that I mostly wanted to run a suppressor on thanks to its twist rate and threaded barrel. The fact it has a magazine doesn't hurt... That said it seems to have a hard time feeding and the action is pretty rough. It's really not as light as I would like and I typically have been ditching it for a 30-30 or the ak while in the brush and leave my Remington 700 for sitting around.

[LSP552]

GJM,

My primary hunting rifle is a custom model 70 Featherweight .30-06, Krieger barrel and McMillan stock built by Terry Cross (KMW). Terry is a friend and builds some of the best tactical rifles anywhere, as well as being a world class shooter. He quit making hunting stuff long ago, but I've got an honest .5 - .75 minute rifle with my hunting loads, when I do my part.

My other primary hunting rifle is a an old Sako AII in .308, which is pure oiled walnut and blue steel craftsmanship.

I appreciate nice tools, and know the Ruger is what it is. I'd probably never go to the trouble of having something built from the ground up for a concept I'm not sold on or have any experience with. I'm an Aimpoint guy and a regular scope guy so the scout scope thing is a bit alien. I understand the concept, but have never worked it.

Thanks for the comments.

Ken

[GJM]

You will probably appreciate my wife's practical rifle. Left hand Dakota, NPI stock, Walther barrel, set up with a Scout scope, 4X Leupold, Leupold 1.5-5 illuminated, Aimpoint, reserve iron sights, Surefire and stripper clips. It has done everything from earning her an E ticket at Gunsite to harvesting deer.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/DSC00596Small.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/DSC00596Small.jpg.html)

[LSP552]

To not leave this on a negative note, here is my suggestion if you do want a quality practical rifle for similar or less dollars than the Ruger. Find a pre-64 model 70 featherweight in .30-06, cut the length of pull to 13.0 inches, mount a Leupold 1.5-5 or 1.75-6, add an Andy Langlois Ching sling (using the stock front and rear swivels plus adding one intermediate stud), add a bit of weaver rail to the fore end for taking a Surefire, and take a Randy Cain practical rifle class. If you want to go big, put the Leupold in QD rings (Talley or equivalent) and also mount an Aimpoint PRO in a 30 mm ring, that you can switch out with the Leupold, in case you want to use the rifle like a M4. You will have a real rifle, that handles like a dream, can be run vigorously, and will do practical rifle tasks right up to any game in North America. Randy will, in three days, help you get the most of of the practical bolt as a social rifle.

Looks like we hit post at the same time. I love my model 70s, but pre-64s are not inexpensive around here. I can't bring myself to like the FN MOA trigger so can't go that route. I do like the L 1.75 - 6, have one on my CZ .375. I like that scope MUCH better than the 1.5 - 5 due to better low light performance.

Have you fooled with the scout type forward mount? I've never found a quality scope mounted the old fashion way slow.

Ken

[LSP552]

You will probably appreciate my wife's practical rifle. Left hand Dakota, NPI stock, Walther barrel, set up with a Scout scope, 4X Leupold, Leupold 1.5-5 illuminated, Aimpoint, reserve iron sights, Surefire and stripper clips. It has done everything from earning her an E ticket at Gunsite to harvesting deer.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/DSC00596Small.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/DSC00596Small.jpg.html)

Man, I do like! Thanks!

Ken

[GJM]

Have you fooled with the scout type forward mount? I've never found a quality scope mounted the old fashion way slow.

Ken

I took my first rifle class with Jeff Cooper, with a scout rifle, in 1991, so I guess I have been messing around with scout scopes for a while. These days, with the advent of great low powered variables and the Aimpoint, I think IER scout scopes have been relegated to niches like a scope on a model 94, or for some magnification on a .416, where you want the action open for fixed reserve sights and easier loading, and to keep the glass out if your face with heavy recoil.

It used to be a scout rifle meant scout scope, but not anymore for me. A scout rifle is now a fast handling, trim rifle with a three point sling, shorter LOP, slick action, and features that can transition from the hunting field to social use. Caliber might vary from .243/.260 to the classic .30's to .375 H&H and larger for animal defense.

[Malamute]

I think it is a nice practical rifle …. unless you have experienced a real, model 70 based practical rifle, at which point you will likely hold your nose with the Ruger and consider it more or less junk. Biggest problem is you can't run the action like a model 70.

Can you expand on that part a bit?

I have a couple older tang safety Rugers that I like. One I'm planning to use for a moderately compact general purpose rifle.

[Wheeler]

I don't have any first hand experience with the Ruger. There is a guy that shows up at our local tactical rifle match with one occasionally and he doesn't seem to have any problems at all running the bolt on his. As a matter of fact he's probably as fast cycling his Gunsite as I am with a lever action.

[rob_s]

The problem with the "general purpose" practical bolt-action rifle is that very few people actually do general purpose practical things with their firearms.

I've been hunting for an inexpensive, compact, even marginal quality, lightweight .308 Bolt action rifle with iron soghts for quite some time, and they just don't seem to exist. I can't even begin to justify the cost of a true custom practical rifle.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can you top up the Ruger through the ehection port?

[GJM]

Can you expand on that part a bit?

I have a couple older tang safety Rugers that I like. One I'm planning to use for a moderately compact general purpose rifle.

I think the older Ruger tang safety actions may run slicker than the new ones, but if you use the same components (stock, barrel, accessories), the model 70 based rifle will be worth $3,000 on the resale market and the Ruger worth a $1,000 in resale.


I don't have any first hand experience with the Ruger. There is a guy that shows up at our local tactical rifle match with one occasionally and he doesn't seem to have any problems at all running the bolt on his. As a matter of fact he's probably as fast cycling his Gunsite as I am with a lever action.

Work the bolt hard on a Ruger Gunsite rifle, do the same on a good model 70 rifle, and you will understand what I am referring to. The Ruger is sticky by comparison, and much more sensitive to any deviation from straight back manipulation.


The problem with the "general purpose" practical bolt-action rifle is that very few people actually do general purpose practical things with their firearms.

I've been hunting for an inexpensive, compact, even marginal quality, lightweight .308 Bolt action rifle with iron soghts for quite some time, and they just don't seem to exist. I can't even begin to justify the cost of a true custom practical rifle.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can you top up the Ruger through the ehection port?

Rob, inexpensive and quality practical rifle don't go together. I used to have a pre-64 .308 with a Leupold 1.5-5 and a Ching sling, that probably fit your description, but they are more like $1,000 than the $500 I paid for the rifle at the time. Something that was fun, handy and not too expensive was a CZ bolt in 7.62x39, that I called "Scoutski." I don't usually like detachable mags, but it has small five rounders you can carry in a front pocket, and was a great 0-300 yard gun, shooting inexpensive ammo. Will look for a picture, as a buddy has it in a NE state.

Here you go:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/scoutski2.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/scoutski2.jpg.html)

[Spr1]

Additionally, the cocking force on a Model 70 is about as low or lower than any center fire bolt gun I have ever tried.

[TGS]

You guys will have to school me.....

What exactly is the attraction to a big, chunky, sharp-edged detachable box magazine on an otherwise lightweight, handy bolt rifle?

[GardoneVT]

You guys will have to school me.....

What exactly is the attraction to a big, chunky, sharp-edged detachable box magazine on an otherwise lightweight, handy bolt rifle?

IMO, it would be an ideal choice for a rifle in a "restricted capacity" jurisdiction where ARs in their natural form are banned. 10 rounds of .308 makes a handy multi-purpose rifle ,which won't scare the Socialist Politburo of CA/ NJ/NY/ etc should one end up in court.

[TGS]

IMO, it would be an ideal choice for a rifle in a "restricted capacity" jurisdiction where ARs in their natural form are banned. 10 rounds of .308 makes a handy multi-purpose rifle ,which won't scare the Socialist Politburo of CA/ NJ/NY/ etc should one end up in court.

While I'll disagree as AR15s are not banned in their natural form here, I'll also mention that none of the people in this thread expressing interest in the concept rifle is from a Socialist Politburo influenced state.

So.....next, please.

[Malamute]

I think the older Ruger tang safety actions may run slicker than the new ones, but if you use the same components (stock, barrel, accessories), the model 70 based rifle will be worth $3,000 on the resale market and the Ruger worth a $1,000 in resale.

Work the bolt hard on a Ruger Gunsite rifle, do the same on a good model 70 rifle, and you will understand what I am referring to. The Ruger is sticky by comparison, and much more sensitive to any deviation from straight back manipulation.


Will take these thoughts into consideration. I have little experience with model 70's of any sort.

One of my tangers is noticeably slicker than the others, though all are pretty good. Its the focus of my project intent. It's currently a 260, I'm planning on having it set up for switch barrel capability. It's primary chambering would probably be 260 or 308, but I'd like to have a 358, 35-284 or 375-284 barrel for tooling around up where the bears live. 20" barrel, good irons (Lyman receiver, shorty ramp w/sourdough blade).

I have a flat bolt 308 that shoots import ball ammo into 1 1/2" groups, which is plenty good enough for fairly long distance plinking, and is great fun. It has a 2-7 Leupold vx-2, which seems like a good general purpose scope. I'd like to get another couple for other rifles I have.

[Drang]

I've been hunting for an inexpensive, compact, even marginal quality, lightweight .308 Bolt action rifle with iron soghts for quite some time, and they just don't seem to exist. I can't even begin to justify the cost of a true custom practical rifle.
Acquaintance of mine made his Scout Rifle out of an Ishapore SMLE.

You guys will have to school me.....

What exactly is the attraction to a big, chunky, sharp-edged detachable box magazine on an otherwise lightweight, handy bolt rifle?
Jeff Cooper's (pbuh) specs for the Scout Rifle called for a detachable box magazine. For most people who are interested in owning a Scout Rifle, that's the attraction: If it doesn't have the box mag, it's not a Scout.

He also referred to the "pseudo-Scout", which could be described as being a "light, handy carbine that does not include all the features of a real Scout", i.e., it does not make weight, or does not include the box mag, etc.

[GJM]

I just love that caliber. Jim Brockman just finished up a model 70 based .260 for me, which is a combination practical and sheep hunting rifle.

On the "commie" state front, I am not sure a bolt with a flash hider and a 10 round box magazine is going to look or be perceived as PC. Now a nice little wood stock CZ bolt, with little five round mags, being a whole different look.

[TGS]

Jeff Cooper's (pbuh) specs for the Scout Rifle called for a detachable box magazine. For most people who are interested in owning a Scout Rifle, that's the attraction: If it doesn't have the box mag, it's not a Scout.


Right, but there is a difference between a detachable box magazine and a big, chunky, sharp-edged detachable box magazine.

My P-Scout has a detachable box magazine. That doesn't mean it has a monstrosity of a magazine on it.

I'm familiar with what a scout rifle is......I'm asking what the attraction to a large magazine like the Ruger GSR is. I don't know if it's just a poor feature, or if there is an actual reason/advantage to it.

[Spr1]

Like holding more rounds?

[Malamute]

I just love that caliber. Jim Brockman just finished up a model 70 based .260 for me, which is a combination practical and sheep hunting rifle.



Which are mutually complimentary (if not synonymous), rather than exclusive*. I think for most, long guns are more people protection guns or once a year hunting guns rather than drag around in the hills guns. For some, it's the opposite, the vast majority of my use is out in the sticks, I have one with me always. The possibility of needing it for people protection is way down the list of likelihood from critters. The practical or general purpose guns do both fairly well.

Hope you post some pics of your new 260.


*Not writing for GJM, I believe he is fully cognizant of the GP rifle idea.

[LSP552]

IMO, it would be an ideal choice for a rifle in a "restricted capacity" jurisdiction where ARs in their natural form are banned. 10 rounds of .308 makes a handy multi-purpose rifle ,which won't scare the Socialist Politburo of CA/ NJ/NY/ etc should one end up in court.

I'm lucky to live where self defense with an AR would be viewed as just picking the wrong victim.

I'm really looking at this more a play rather than hunting or fighting. The problem with "general" tools is they tend to be useful but excel at nothing. I like having tools that excel at specific tasks.

I did play with a commie caliber baby CZ a couple a few years ago when ammo was cheap. Wish it was in .308…...

Lots of good feedback in this thread so far, thanks.

Ken

[TGS]

Like holding more rounds?

That's pretty obvious.

But to what end that these rifles serve does it benefit?

And is it worth it at the expense of having the rifle being a pain in the butt to carry? I know GJM has mentioned that in the past, and a reason his stock is customized to wrap around the mag because he was sick of it getting caught up in gear or creating comfort issues.

[Tamara]

You will probably appreciate my wife's practical rifle. Left hand Dakota, NPI stock, Walther barrel, set up with a Scout scope, 4X Leupold, Leupold 1.5-5 illuminated, Aimpoint, reserve iron sights, Surefire and stripper clips. It has done everything from earning her an E ticket at Gunsite to harvesting deer.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/DSC00596Small.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/DSC00596Small.jpg.html)I'll be in my bunk.

[MK11]

I am in one of those commie states and I'm looking at an older Remington 700 BDL that's been stuck in the back of the safe with new interest, primarily because .30-06 and .270 were the only center fire calibers that were available with any consistency for many, many months.

Any tweaks beyond what GJM has already mentioned that makes a stock sporting rifle a better, more durable, more user-friendly tool?

[GJM]

I think you need to consider how to quickly go from an empty rifle to a loaded one, given the laws many states have. If I wanted a dedicated bolt, I would consider having it cut for stripper clips, and use an Aimpoint to keep the action clear. Alternatively, gasp, a Remington .30-06 carbine length pump gun with detachable mags would look common and work pretty well.

This is my .375H&H, but with an Aimpoint on, works pretty well around bears.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/bearrifle.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/bearrifle.jpg.html)

This is my primary CZ 527 in .223:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/CZ.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/CZ.jpg.html)

I also have one of these in 6.5 Grendel.

[Wheeler]

How does the Steyr Scout fit into this niche? My only bolt guns are a Mosin, a handful of low end .22's and a Ruger American I bought my son as a deer rifle, so I'm asking for edification.

[Malamute]

Jeff Cooper's (pbuh) specs for the Scout Rifle called for a detachable box magazine. For most people who are interested in owning a Scout Rifle, that's the attraction: If it doesn't have the box mag, it's not a Scout.

He also referred to the "pseudo-Scout", which could be described as being a "light, handy carbine that does not include all the features of a real Scout", i.e., it does not make weight, or does not include the box mag, etc.

Can you direct me to the info about the detachable magazine being a spec of the scout concept? I've seen it mentioned as desirable, but not necessary. Not that I'm hung up on the exact specs for my own use, just curious about that bit.

[TGS]

Can you direct me to the info about the detachable magazine being a spec of the scout concept? I've seen it mentioned as desirable, but not necessary. Not that I'm hung up on the exact specs for my own use, just curious about that bit.

Cooper actually spoke against big box magazines:

http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=oe69l1oddmcbd2bs06psogibm7&topic=1298.0

[Malamute]

That does not surprise me in the least, one of the objectives was to have an easy to carry gun, and one reason to have a forward mounted scope or irons was to be able to easily carry the gun in hand at the balance point. Magazines that stick out at the balance point are't that easy to carry.

I nearly always carry a rifle in hand.

[GJM]

I was also scratching my head about this. I have seen most of Jeff Cooper's various scout rifles, and don't recall them fitted up with a DBM. My recollection was that the DBM was optional, and found its way onto the Steyr Scout. Early on, Robar did a M14 DBM mod on something, maybe a Ruger as I recall, but it screwed up the ability to work the bolt well.

[Spr1]

The Steyr is kind of the best of both isn't it? A standard capacity mag that hugs the stock line, and a higher capacity mag that is available if desired.

[GJM]

The Steyr is kind of the best of both isn't it? A standard capacity mag that hugs the stock line, and a higher capacity mag that is available if desired.

I assume you mean the Steyr's magazine arrangement and not the whole rifle? There is a real gotcha with the Steyr's magazine system. Jeff specified a magazine position where you can single feed, leaving the DBM essentially "disconnected." My concern was always that it get that way, when you wanted it feeding the action, leading to click not bang.

[Wheeler]

I noticed in the article Cooper mentioned the Savage 99. I've sort of felt like a BLR would fit in this role quite well.

[Spr1]

I assume you mean the Steyr's magazine arrangement and not the whole rifle? There is a real gotcha with the Steyr's magazine system. Jeff specified a magazine position where you can single feed, leaving the DBM essentially "disconnected." My concern was always that it get that way, when you wanted it feeding the action, leading to click not bang.

Absolutely. Just the low/high option.
I have only played with a Steyr Scout briefly, on a couple occasions. My overall reaction was "so what is all the hype about?" I was seriously underwhelmed. I would definitely take a warmed over Winchester, Ruger or Remington over it in a heartbeat.

[markp]

The problem with the "general purpose" practical bolt-action rifle is that very few people actually do general purpose practical things with their firearms.

I've been hunting for an inexpensive, compact, even marginal quality, lightweight .308 Bolt action rifle with iron soghts for quite some time, and they just don't seem to exist. I can't even begin to justify the cost of a true custom practical rifle.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can you top up the Ruger through the ehection port?

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[LHS]

Acquaintance of mine made his Scout Rifle out of an Ishapore SMLE

I happen to have an Ishapore and have been kicking around the idea of making a scout rifle out of it. Any ideas on who did the work on your friend's rifle? I'm also unable to find any kind of replacement stock for it (it's been importer-converted into a jungle carbine configuration)

[TR675]

The problem with the "general purpose" practical bolt-action rifle is that very few people actually do general purpose practical things with their firearms.

Right. I never understood the point of the scout rifle concept. Seems like a solution for a problem that stopped existing a long time ago.

[jetfire]

Right. I never understood the point of the scout rifle concept. Seems like a solution for a problem that stopped existing a long time ago.

The AR15 and 75 grain bullets largely make the Scout Rifle pointless from a purely practical standpoint.

[TR675]

I just think Cooper was prone to romanticism from time to time and spent a lot of time refighting the Boer War in his head while developing the concept.

Admittedly that is an uninformed impression based largely on nothing.

[jetfire]

I just think Cooper was prone to romanticism from time to time and spent a lot of time refighting the Boer War in his head.

Yes, but which one?

[TR675]

All of them?

[TGS]

The AR15 and 75 grain bullets largely make the Scout Rifle pointless from a purely practical standpoint.

Not to mention 6.8 and 6.5. You can build an AR15 that is just as light in these calibers as an average 308 scout rifle, still very well capable of taking average game, with better accuracy, lower recoil, as well it being semi-auto and higher capacity if the need arises....like hunting in areas known by poachers, meth heads, ect. 5 or 10 round mag in the gun, 30 round mag in a kytex pouch on your belt....talk about a multipurpose rifle that cannot be beat.

After trying one, I'm not necessarily sold on the scout scope concept, either. But, with a Andy Langois Rhodesian sling and stripper clips, the gun is really fun to shoot from standing. :D I think it's just another fun flavor of rifle, personally.

[Drang]

Right, but there is a difference between a detachable box magazine and a big, chunky, sharp-edged detachable box magazine.

My P-Scout has a detachable box magazine. That doesn't mean it has a monstrosity of a magazine on it.

I'm familiar with what a scout rifle is......I'm asking what the attraction to a large magazine like the Ruger GSR is. I don't know if it's just a poor feature, or if there is an actual reason/advantage to it.

That sound I heard was your point flying over my head... :p I thought you were questioning having a detachable box magazine at all.

[Drang]

Can you direct me to the info about the detachable magazine being a spec of the scout concept? I've seen it mentioned as desirable, but not necessary. Not that I'm hung up on the exact specs for my own use, just curious about that bit.

It is not impossible that I'm remembering it wrong...

[Drang]

I happen to have an Ishapore and have been kicking around the idea of making a scout rifle out of it. Any ideas on who did the work on your friend's rifle? I'm also unable to find any kind of replacement stock for it (it's been importer-converted into a jungle carbine configuration) PM sent.

ETA: note to elf, next time, identify all the posts in one thread you want to respond to, and do the "Quote multiple posts" thing... :eek:

[Chuck Haggard]

I have a couple of Savage .308s, one of which is an original Scout. Someone school me why these might not be suitable for the job.

I would love it if they could be clip loaded, but both have DBMs that can be single loaded through the top so they got that going on at least.

[BobM]

I handled one of the Rugers last weekend and I do want one. I've been following the Scout concept since reading the 1984 Gun Digest article about them. My other 308 bolt gun is a Remington LTR and I'd plan on using the Ruger for hunting when I didn't want the weight of the LTR.

[Malamute]

The problem with the "general purpose" practical bolt-action rifle is that very few people actually do general purpose practical things with their firearms.

I've been hunting for an inexpensive, compact, even marginal quality, lightweight .308 Bolt action rifle with iron soghts for quite some time, and they just don't seem to exist. I can't even begin to justify the cost of a true custom practical rifle.


I missed this. I think you are right, and even among those that do, there isn't universal agreement about exactly what they desire.


I understand much of the reasoning behind the components of the scout concept, but they don't fit exactly what I do or my wants. A levergun often fills the bill, as does a sporter bolt action. Something sort of in the middle between them is what I want. The Ruger scout doesn't appeal to me, but a standard sporter cut down a bit, with decent irons, and perhaps the stock routed out a bit to lighten it does. AR's don't do much for me either, nothing against those that prefer them. I sold my last one several years ago, and other than as a cheap plinker, don't really miss it.



It is not impossible that I'm remembering it wrong...

That happened to me once.

[LSP552]

The AR15 and 75 grain bullets largely make the Scout Rifle pointless from a purely practical standpoint.


I'm not sure about that. I'd agree for people, but a .308 seems to be more versatile for larger stuff.

Ken

[GJM]

I'm not sure about that. I'd agree for people, but a .308 seems to be more versatile for larger stuff.

Ken

define "larger?" :)

[LSP552]

I understand much of the reasoning behind the components of the scout concept, but they don't fit exactly what I do or my wants. A levergun often fills the bill, as does a sporter bolt action. Something sort of in the middle between them is what I want. The Ruger scout doesn't appeal to me, but a standard sporter cut down a bit, with decent irons, and perhaps the stock routed out a bit to lighten it does.

I'm kind of with you on this. A stainless .308 with 20" barrel, iron sights and a normal low-med power scope in a good glass stock could solve most things. Quick detachable mounts to change optics if you were Aimpoint inclined. The receiver cut for clips would be very nice. The problem is nothing quite like this exists off the shelf.

Ken

[LSP552]

define "larger?" :)

Things in North America other than big bears is where I'd draw the line with the .308. If you should do it with an .30-06, you can do it with a .308.

Ken

[Malamute]

I'm kind of with you on this. A stainless .308 with 20" barrel, iron sights and a normal low-med power scope in a good glass stock could solve most things. Quick detachable mounts to change optics if you were Aimpoint inclined. The receiver cut for clips would be very nice. The problem is nothing quite like this exists off the shelf.

Ken

No, nothing quite on those lines is available off the shelf, but it doesnt take too much work to get there. In my case, blue steel and wood are fine, as is standard scope mount location and regular scope. A small pad on the barrel for an aimpoint or similar wouldnt be too bothersome, I dont care much for the common Picatinny/Weaver type rails. They are pretty chunky and unappealing when bare.



define "larger?" :)

Larger than people? :D

[LHS]

The handiest boltgun I've used was a Remington Model Seven in .308 cut down to 16.5" bbl and a lightweight fiberglass stock. Even with the 2-7 Leupy on top, it couldn't have weighed more than 6.5lbs loaded. I've killed more than a few whitetail with that rifle, and while it kicks a bit off the bench, I carry it far more than I shoot it so the light weight is appreciated.

Where it fails the 'scout' concept is in the low mag capacity and lack of stripper clip or DBM capability. I wonder, would a rotary magazine a la the Johnson work in such a concept? Then you could top off the mag via strippers while maintaining a traditional optic mount over the receiver. Although, I doubt anyone these days would buy an odd-looking bolt gun like that.

[Chuck Haggard]

No, nothing quite on those lines is available off the shelf, but it doesnt take too much work to get there. In my case, blue steel and wood are fine, as is standard scope mount location and regular scope. A small pad on the barrel for an aimpoint or similar wouldnt be too bothersome, I dont care much for the common Picatinny/Weaver type rails. They are pretty chunky and unappealing when bare.




Larger than people? :D

Agree on most points, both my you and other folks, including the want for larger than a .223/5.56, however I think for a hard use gun stainless makes more sense. Blue steel and wood are gorgeous, but I have been more than once caught in the rain badly while hunting, and a blued gun doesn't stand up to much of that before something has to give.

[rob_s]

Savage Arms 11 Hog Hunter (http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11HOGHUNTER)

Mossberg MVP patrol
7.62 (http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifles-bolt-action-centerfire-mvp-series-mvp-patrol-mvp-patrol/27738?u_field_prod_caliber=7.62mm+NATO+%28.308+WIN %29@595&nodeRef=3842,2756,2757,3159,3160,3161&redirect=1&filterNodes=3160,3161)

I've been considering the Savage. Was unaware of the Mossberg, although that scope rail would have to be detachable for me to be interested.

The issue I've been having is finding a place to handle any of these guns. SE Florida isn't a very strong bolt-action-hunting-rifle market.

[rob_s]

I'm kind of with you on this. A stainless .308 with 20" barrel, iron sights and a normal low-med power scope in a good glass stock could solve most things. Quick detachable mounts to change optics if you were Aimpoint inclined. The receiver cut for clips would be very nice. The problem is nothing quite like this exists off the shelf.

Ken

No market is driven by the enthusiasts, mostly because even if you manufacture exactly what the enthusiasts want they find one esoteric reason not to buy it and go back to spinning their wheels "customizing" to make it "perfect", or paying someone else gobs of money to do the same to achieve marginal gains/"improvements". What the enthusiast really wants isn't a product, but a project. This is true of guns, cars, motorcycles, houses, football bats, etc.

What I wish the various markets WOULD do is manufacture products that are a good base for the various enthusiasts to wander off down their own, special snowflake, paths. A 1911, for example, that has a simple high-cut front strap, beaver tail safety cut, lowered/flared ejection port, Novak sight cut, and assembled correctly by people that know what they are doing, would provide a great baseline for virtually anyone looking to snowflake their gun.

I think the equivalent relative to this topic would be a controlled-feed, open-top ejection port, flush/extended DBM, 18-20" barrel, and iron sights would be a pretty good launching point for just about anyone to snowflake. The current production Model 70 lightweight is almost there but it lacks the iron sights and adding them after the fact is an expensive and time-consuming process.

[jetfire]

Things in North America other than big bears is where I'd draw the line with the .308. If you should do it with an .30-06, you can do it with a .308.

Ken

If I'd wanted to flesh that out a little bit, I would have said that the AR with 75 grain bullets or chambered in .300 BLK or 6.8 SPC makes the Scout Rifle obsolete. The fact that I can get a 6.8 with 30 rounds for the same weight penalty as a 5-10 round bolt gun makes the bolt guns look a little silly.

This coming from someone that actually owns a Scout rifle.

[JHC]

I hunted with a pseudo scout a few years. A .308 Mauser. The worst was the pathetic low light performance of the long eye relief scope. Gave up a lot of time at dawn and dusk vs conventional low powered scope.

[GJM]

If I'd wanted to flesh that out a little bit, I would have said that the AR with 75 grain bullets or chambered in .300 BLK or 6.8 SPC makes the Scout Rifle obsolete. The fact that I can get a 6.8 with 30 rounds for the same weight penalty as a 5-10 round bolt gun makes the bolt guns look a little silly.

This coming from someone that actually owns a Scout rifle.

I think this depends on what you are doing with a long gun. If you are going to war, a bolt isn't going to work (excepting specialized use). However, if you are out wandering around in the mountains or on the tundra, and want a long gun to hunt big game, defend yourself against creatures up to brown bears, whack a coyote or wolf out to 400-500 yards, or just enjoy being out with a rifle, an AR isn't nearly as desirable as a trim bolt gun in a caliber that has more power and/or reach out ability. I often spend 100 days a year out with a long gun, and it is with a bolt gun, Guide Gun, or shotgun, and only infrequently with an AR. Also, where an AR has edges and a magazine to stick you when carrying it, a bolt gun, Guide Gun or shotgun is easier to carry on your body or in your hands. An AR also attracts attention, where a more traditional long gun hardly causes a second look.

[jetfire]

I think this depends on what you are doing with a long gun. If you are going to war, a bolt isn't going to work (excepting specialized use). However, if you are out wandering around in the mountains or on the tundra, and want a long gun to hunt big game, defend yourself against creatures up to brown bears, whack a coyote or wolf out to 400-500 yards, or just enjoy being out with a rifle, an AR isn't nearly as desirable as a trim bolt gun in a caliber that has more power and/or reach out ability. I often spend 100 days a year out with a long gun, and it is with a bolt gun, Guide Gun, or shotgun, and only infrequently with an AR. Also, where an AR has edges and a magazine to stick you when carrying it, a bolt gun, Guide Gun or shotgun is easier to carry on your body or in your hands. An AR also attracts attention, where a more traditional long gun hardly causes a second look.

This is why I don't leave The Tower.

Back the topic though, I recently spent a week humping an AR all over the backside of the high desert in Nevada. A 20 round GI mag doesn't really poke if your sling is set up right, and it makes you look cool because GI 20s are the heat. I can say that if I was in bear country I'd probably something a bit sturdier than a 6.8.

But the AR is perfectly capable on coyotes at 500.

[GJM]

But the AR is perfectly capable on coyotes at 500.

Better hope they aren't in their winter fur. :)

[Malamute]

I think this depends on what you are doing with a long gun. If you are going to war, a bolt isn't going to work (excepting specialized use). However, if you are out wandering around in the mountains or on the tundra, and want a long gun to hunt big game, defend yourself against creatures up to brown bears, whack a coyote or wolf out to 400-500 yards, or just enjoy being out with a rifle, an AR isn't nearly as desirable as a trim bolt gun in a caliber that has more power and/or reach out ability. I often spend 100 days a year out with a long gun, and it is with a bolt gun, Guide Gun, or shotgun, and only infrequently with an AR. Also, where an AR has edges and a magazine to stick you when carrying it, a bolt gun, Guide Gun or shotgun is easier to carry on your body or in your hands. An AR also attracts attention, where a more traditional long gun hardly causes a second look.


^^ This.

I've carried various long guns around, including a variety of self loaders. I find self loaders chunky, bulky and clunky compared to a lever gun or good sporter bolt gun. It's really really hard to get interested in carrying something around that isn't handy or comfortable to carry, especially when it comes to the relative horsepower levels of the various guns size/weight/bulk.

[LSP552]

^^ This.

I've carried various long guns around, including a variety of self loaders. I find self loaders chunky, bulky and clunky compared to a lever gun or good sporter bolt gun. It's really really hard to get interested in carrying something around that isn't handy or comfortable to carry, especially when it comes to the relative horsepower levels of the various guns size/weight/bulk.

My take also, but difference of opinion makes the world go around.:)

Ken

[Lester Polfus]

I've played with the Scout principle, and have wound up with a general purpose rifle, that isn't really a scout, but I feel fills the same niche.


I think Cooper's ideas often make the most sense if you consider them in the context of the time they were conceived. When it comes to the forward mounted scope in particular, optics that were available in Cooper's prime had crappy light transmission, were prone to internal fogging, failed to hold zero, had a narrow range of eye relief and often broke. Variable scopes in particular often shot to a different point of aim at different magnification settings, and were notorious for being internally fragile. Aimpoints and etc were in their infancy, or flat unavailable.

My grandfather was of an age with Cooper, and regarded scopes as simply a point of failure. He often lamented that he couldn't get a lightweight bolt action rifle with a set of M1 Garand iron sights on it.

In that context, a forward mounted, low power, fixed magnification scope makes sense, particularly one backed up by a quality pair of irons.

Fast forward to the 2010's. I have a Leupold Vari-x III 1.75 to 5 variable on my .308. I zeroed it when I put it on the rifle in 2008. Since then it has gone through 6 years of deer and elk seasons in Western Oregon and Washington. At low magnification, I can snap shoot quite quickly with no risk of the scope smacking me in the eyebrow. The rifle rides in a truck on miles of nasty roads, it rains like hell here, and I hunt steep slopes where I've fallen ass over tea kettle more times than I can count. The rifle has held zero every time, and even after I take the action out of the stock, it's within an inch or two. My rifle has back up irons on it, but if I knew what I know, I wouldn't have paid the gunsmith to put them on.

As far as the rest of the characteristics go, I think the length, weight, power and accuracy requirements are absolutely ideal for a general purpose rifle. Folks frequently tote around rifles that are too long, too heavy, and recoil way too much. While I love rifles that will shoot sub-MOA there is usually a trade off in weight and or fragility to get that. 2 MOA was Cooper's standard and I think that's fine for most uses. The .308 cartridge (and cartridges in rifle the same power level) are perfect for anything short of big bears. My rifle fits the weight, power, and accuracy standards for a Scout Rifle.

I'm agnostic on the DBM. The game laws here require guns be completely unloaded in the truck, so a DBM would be convenient. Even in my wildest fantasies, where I'm a partisan in the mountains, fighting the hordes of Russian Spetsnez and El Salvadoran paratroopers who have descended on my Colorado mountain town, I think that if your tactics depend on volume of fire, whether from a bolt gun or a Ar15/AR10/AK, you aren't going to last long. Rather a well aimed shot or two, then fading into the underbrush seem to be the order of the day.

On a related note, some people roll their eyes at Cooper's allegiance to the 1911. I used to shoot them, but likely won't ever own one again. But if you set the Way Back Machine to anywhere in the 1950s to around the late 1990's, the picture is very different. The 9mm cartridge had not yet benefited from modern ballistic design, and thus ammo makers were trying to drive 115 grain or even 95 grain bullets at high velocities, with corresponding lack of penetration, so if you were going to carry an autoloader, .45 ACP was the ticket. There were few platforms other than the 1911 that had any degree of support for parts, gun smithing, holsters and etc. So you kinda arrive at the 1911 by default.

Again, you have to consider the times...

[NickA]

Educate a non-rifle guy re: bolt guns cut for stripper clips. What actions can this be done to, what kind /where do you source the clips, cost for the work, etc.
I don't think I've ever heard of this, but it seems like a neat solution.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

On a related note, some people roll their eyes at Cooper's allegiance to the 1911. I used to shoot them

I agree that these people are annoying but I think that's a bit of an overreaction and I'm glad you stopped.


Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

[Lester Polfus]

The easiest way to do this is to use an old, military surplus action that is already designed to use stripper clips. Examples would be '03 Springfield actions, old Mauser Actions, and British Enfields.

Clips are cheap:

http://www.amazon.com/Sprinfield-1903-A3-stripper-NORTHRIDGE-INTERNATIONAL/dp/B00DFACGR2

The problem with using an old surplus action is that essentially you'd be starting with an old action, and then assembling all the pieces around it. This equals Big $$.

Or, you can start with a modern action, and have it modified to accept stripper clips. I don't know off hand who would do that, but according to this thread:

http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=1965.0

You can get it done for $200, but that's on a stripped action, which will later have to be reblued.

So again we are talking $$.

You can buy, or assemble a rifle that meets the length, weight, power and accuracy requirements of a Scout rifle fairly cheaply and easily.

When you start trying to add the other criteria, your options for off the rack purchases become more limited, and the requirements for custom gunsmithing with the attendant costs, go up, in return for what I regard as questionable utility.

[Corey]

Great thread, I always enjoy reading about scout rifles for some reason. I have mixed feelings about scout rifles, I really like a nicely made scout but it is a general purpose rifle and as such a specialized tool will perform better in specific roles. Jeff Cooper certainly did have some romantic notions of an elegant weapon from a more civilized age when he developed the scout concept but still a well built scout is a joy to carry and shoot. I don’t carry a rifle around all day in the mountains, but I still feel like I should have a scout rifle. I don’t, but I do have a beat up Gunsite lever rifle and well used Gunsite 1911 so I am not a complete outcast.

I have shot several iterations of original Gunsite Scout rifles and pseudo scouts, some Steyr Scouts and the Ruger GSR. The Steyr is the closest to what Jeff Cooper envisioned as the scout rifle, which makes sense considering how closely he worked with Steyr during its development.. We had several prototype rifles come out to Gunsite when I was there for us to shoot and evaluate. They figured out reasonably good way to combine a flush fit DBM with a magazine cutoff. GJM pointed out the risk of not getting the magazine seated all the way because of that arrangement and while I think that is certainly a non-zero risk, it is a good design with a pretty low risk. I do like the spare mag storage in stock on the Steyr rifle, a very handy and easy to access way to keep a spare on the gun without messing up the lines of the rifle. The built in bipod is slick, but I don’t really see the need for a bipod on a scout rifle. It is also not as stable as a Harris and has no height adjustment. The biggest downside to the Steyr for me is the price, you can get a nice custom scout exactly the way you want it for what they cost.

The Ruger Scout is a decent rifle but I am not a big fan. It is heavy for a scout rifle, and it’s a Ruger:p. I really wish they would have made it with a magazine that doesn’t stick out and offered that big magazine an option for carrying a spare. I also think the iron sights on it and the flash hider look cheesy, like they retrofitted some Mini-14 accessories out of an old Feather Industries catalog. I have handled them a bunch but only shot one. It had an Aimpoint Micro T-1 on it and was fun to shoot. The accuracy from the bench with the red dot was pretty good. Didn’t get a chance to sit down and get some statistically meaningful data, but the 5 shot groups that did were all under 3” at 100 yards.

Cooper did make some allowances on what was an “official” scout rifle based on what was available. From 1991 to 1996, the scout rifles built at Gunsite were built on Sako actions. No controlled feed, no magazine cutoff, no DBM, but still official scout rilfes. The Sako actions were solid, reliable, and smooth actions that were easy to adapt for back-up ghost ring sights, and light enough to make weight. Stocks were Brown Precision and Clifton. I liked the Brown stocks as they were very light but still solid. The Clifton stocks were very popular with customers because of the built in bipod. I didn’t care for the Clifton bipod because it was too delicate (we repaired a lot of them), not stiff enough (the rifle was very bouncy when using it) and I found it to be a few inches too high to use comfortably.

Customer supplied actions at that time were mostly Remington, with some pre-64 Winchester, and various Mauser actions. There was a surprising number done on 1903 Springfield actions in .30-06. This was popular specifically to get stripper clip ability and magazine cutoff, but at the expense of extra weight. Probably 75% or so of the rifles were .308, with the second most popular being .30-06. After that a few were done in .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum, and a couple other calibers. There were also a few done in .223 on Remington 600 actions as well. They were actually really cool rifles because they were so trim and light.* I enjoyed taking those out to play.

Didn’t mean for this post to end up being so long, but scout rifles bring back a lot of memories of some good times.

[Lester Polfus]

Hey Corey, thanks for that insight.

What is a Gunsite Lever rifle?

Regarding the flash supressor on the Ruger Scout, when I first saw it I rolled my eyes. Then this last fall when I was out Elk hunting, and I was taking care to protect the crown of my rifle when I was stowing it in the truck and such, I though "you know...."

[jetfire]

Well, thanks to this thread I'm selling my Scout rifle (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=406972064).

It should go to a good home.

[TGS]

Well, thanks to this thread I'm selling my Scout rifle (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=406972064).

It should go to a good home.

Admiral Ahab?

Hahahahaha.

[jetfire]

Admiral Ahab?

Hahahahaha.

I felt like he deserved a promotion for his long years of service against the Cetacean menace.

[Corey]

Lester,

It was sold as the Gunsite Police Rifle (Cooper's name for it and how mine is marked). It is a Winchester 94 in .30-30 or .44 Mag with ghost ring sights, trigger job, all sharp edges and corners removed, an enlarged lever loop (done by modifying the factory lever, not an oversize loop), and a butt cuff for extra ammo. Cooper envisioned it as a patrol rifle for police that would not have the militaristic appearance of an AR and offer good ballistics to 100-150 yards. Mine is an.30-30 and it has taken a couple of deer and a bunch of coyote.

As for the flash hider on the Ruger GSR, I am certainly not opposed to it, I just think they could have found something that didn't look like an afterthought that they grabbed out of a catalog.

[Lester Polfus]

True that. It's pretty Tapco looking.

If I ever buy another long gun, it will look pretty much just like that lever gun when I'm done with it.

[GJM]

Lester,

It was sold as the Gunsite Police Rifle (Cooper's name for it and how mine is marked). It is a Winchester 94 in .30-30 or .44 Mag with ghost ring sights, trigger job, all sharp edges and corners removed, an enlarged lever loop (done by modifying the factory lever, not an oversize loop), and a butt cuff for extra ammo. Cooper envisioned it as a patrol rifle for police that would not have the militaristic appearance of an AR and offer good ballistics to 100-150 yards. Mine is an.30-30 and it has taken a couple of deer and a bunch of coyote.

Corey, as I recall it the GPR was a model 94 in 30-30, where the model 94 in .44 magnum was the "Brooklyn Special." I call the Guide Gun in .45-70 the "Alaskan Special."

THis is one of my lever guns built by Jim Brockman:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/marlin1.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/marlin1.jpg.html)

and one of my Alaskan Guide Guns:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/DSC00599Small.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/DSC00599Small.jpg.html)

and a .450 Marlin, that we load to .458 Win Mag lite performance with 350 grain Barnes and 400 grain Swift bullets:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/DSC00418Small.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/DSC00418Small.jpg.html)

[Corey]

I actually had not heard the term "Brooklyn Special" until a few years ago. We marked both calibers as a GPR when I was there. We only did Winchesters in those two calibers as a complete rifle from the gunsmithy. On customer supplied guns we did both Winchesters and Marlins and did .45-70 as well and marked the barrels with the GPR markings.

Nice rifles, if I get a chance to take some pictures of my GPR this weekend I will post them up.

[Dagga Boy]

Good stuff Corey. I probably own the very first Ruger Scout. It is a full house Brent Clifton gun built on a Ruger UltraLight in .308 and meets every "Scout Criteria" of the day. It is one of my favorite guns that doesn't have as much use as I thought I would. It has been carried and shot a lot, but then I started buying more specialized guns for specific purposes. I definitely have the "romantic notion" attachment to the gun and all the Milt Sparks leather on it (butt cuff and Ching sling).

I wanted one of the newer Ruger Scouts when it looked like I was going to be staying in California while my evil guns went to live at my houses in Texas and Arizona. I ended up going with the evil guns to places where they are good guns again and then never found the need for the newer Ruger Gunsite Scout, considering I have a "Real" Gunsite/Cooper Scout.

I do think for those in ban states, these things make a TON of sense. I would rather have the Gunsite Scout than a truly "legal" AR in places like California with either an abortion of a setup, or tool required mag removal for 10 rounds of 5.56.

[GJM]

Good stuff Corey. I probably own the very first Ruger Scout. It is a full house Brent Clifton gun built on a Ruger UltraLight in .308 and meets every "Scout Criteria" of the day. It is one of my favorite guns that doesn't have as much use as I thought I would. It has been carried and shot a lot, but then I started buying more specialized guns for specific purposes.

I have had a number of Clifton stocks over the years. Darryl, my guess is your Ruger Scout doesn't make weight, as Brent's stocks were heavy. I took a Clifton stocked Ruger .375H&H and Clifton stocked .460 G&A to Africa on my first trip there.

[LHS]

I actually had not heard the term "Brooklyn Special" until a few years ago. We marked both calibers as a GPR when I was there. We only did Winchesters in those two calibers as a complete rifle from the gunsmithy. On customer supplied guns we did both Winchesters and Marlins and did .45-70 as well and marked the barrels with the GPR markings.

Nice rifles, if I get a chance to take some pictures of my GPR this weekend I will post them up.

One of my friends had Gunsite do his Marlin 1895 in .444 Marlin with ghost-ring sights, 16.5" bbl and enlarged lever loop back in the mid/late 90s. It was kind of a Guide Gun before Marlin even thought up the term. He referred to it as "Thumper".

[Corey]

One of my friends had Gunsite do his Marlin 1895 in .444 Marlin with ghost-ring sights, 16.5" bbl and enlarged lever loop back in the mid/late 90s. It was kind of a Guide Gun before Marlin even thought up the term. He referred to it as "Thumper".

Very cool. He probably had it done not long after I left Gunsite (1996).


I do think for those in ban states, these things make a TON of sense. I would rather have the Gunsite Scout than a truly "legal" AR in places like California with either an abortion of a setup, or tool required mag removal for 10 rounds of 5.56

I agree. While we know what kind of firearm is used should not make a difference (as long as it is legal) we also no that in some areas and with some prosecutors it can make a difference. In those areas one could do a lot worse than a Scout rifle or a Gunsite Police. Good ballistics, good handling, and to non-gun people it looks like grandpa's old hunting rifle instead of evil incarnate.

Back onto building Scout rifles, I'll give another history lesson. The barrels on the Gunsite Scouts were part of what made them special, particularly the scope bases. On the Ruger GSR and the Savage Scout and most other rifles, the barrel is drilled and tapped, and a scope base screwed on. The Gunsite Scout used a pedestal barrel where the scope bases were machined into the barrel itself. The barrel blanks came from Steve Wickert. They were made with single point cut rifling and rough finished. He started with large diameter steel for the blanks. After deep hole drilling and rifling, the barrel was turned to rough shape except in the two spots where the bases would be which were left full diameter. We would turn the barrel shank and thread it for the action it was going into, install it on the action and chamber it. Then we indexed off the receiver and cut flats on the full diameter portions. The barrel was then removed from the receiver and set up on mill in a dividing head and the bases machined and excess material removed as best as possible. Then the barrel was put back in the lathe and the final taper done except at the bases. Final cleanup was done by hand with files, sanding blocks, and polishing. The end result was sight bases that looked like they were growing right out of the barrel and could never come loose. It was a lot of work as the shop had a manual lathe and mill without even a DRO. A four axis CNC mill could turn out a very nice pedestal barrel in a fraction of the time it took us to do it. Could be a business opportunity if the market were there.

[GJM]

I had a pseudo Scout, on a Springfield .30-06, built by Sam Trevino, that had the Wickert barrel. Wickert built my .460 G&A, a .416 Rigby, and a pair of .338's for my wife and I, using those pedestal barrels. The aperture rear sight used on the GPR, and Gunsite shotguns was developed and manufactured by Steve Wickert.

[phidelta308]

Evan Hill of Hill People Gear documented his scout rifle built around a Mexican Mauser action in this thread (http://hillpeoplegear.com/Forum/tabid/679/forumid/24/threadid/147/scope/posts/threadpage/3/Default.aspx) on their forum. It's interesting to see the design choices he made, as well as the work arounds he had to do to implement them.

It's a nice looking rifle, and built to his specs, but in the end, he said if he were to do it all again, it's a toss up for him between a custom build or just buying a Ruger Gunsight Scout. Personally, I've been lusting after a Savage Hog Hunter.

[JAD]

Corey, as I recall it the GPR was a model 94 in 30-30, where the model 94 in .44 magnum was the "Brooklyn Special."


In Gossip, the .30-30 is the Brooklyn and the .44 mag the Kansas City Special. The latter was a suggestion of Major Doug Smith, actually of Leavenworth, to Ancker and thence to Cooper. I remain unsatisfied as to which came first.

[GJM]

This is more oriented to hunting and general boon docking, but here is my .260. Controlled feed model 70 action, Brown Precision stock, Lilja fluted barrel, cerakoted metal treatment, one piece Tally rings, Leupold 2.5-8 with a Premier style holdover reticle, blind bottom metal, three position sling, reshaped bolt handle, action tuned, etc.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/260bolt_zps3c0eaa76.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/260bolt_zps3c0eaa76.jpg.html)

[TGS]

I would rather have the Gunsite Scout than a truly "legal" AR in places like California with either an abortion of a setup, or tool required mag removal for 10 rounds of 5.56.



In those areas one could do a lot worse than a Scout rifle or a Gunsite Police. Good ballistics, good handling, and to non-gun people it looks like grandpa's old hunting rifle instead of evil incarnate.

If I was going down that route, I think I'd go for a Browning BAR or Benelli R1 instead. Semi-auto is a big advantage over a bolt action...

[Chuck Whitlock]

Preface: I don't currently own a GP bolt gun.

To get the most bang for the least amount of $$/effort, I have felt that I want to get a Ruger GSR and just add:
http://www.xssights.com/Products.aspx?CAT=8286 and http://www.burrisoptics.com/mtac1x6x.html in QD rings.

As far as the big clunky magazine, the 10s would go in a pack or pouch, and I would carry the rifle with the 5 rd. poly mag, provided it would hold up:
http://shopruger.com/Scout-308-Mag-M77-5P-90354/productinfo/90354/

I really can't think of any uses I would have that this combo couldn't cover, and everything is easily sourced and not terribly expensive. Obviously, someone else's needs/desired may be vastly different, and that is cool, too.

[HCM]

GJM,

Could you please provide some details regarding the spare mag/ammo holder on the stocks of your "scoutski's" ?

I have CZ 527 in 7.62x39 with a 2x7 Nikon. It's one of my favorite rifles. Affordable to shoot with steel case AK stuff, good accuracy with quality brass cases ammo such as Hornady Z max and a good trigger out of the box. It currently has a leather 1907 pattern sling I bought from some "old dude" at the gunshow but I think a true scout sling would suit it better.

Thanks

[GardoneVT]

If I was going down that route, I think I'd go for a Browning BAR or Benelli R1 instead. Semi-auto is a big advantage over a bolt action...

Unless you're limited to ten rounds ,and can't change magazines easily due to communist legislation re: detachable magazines.A manual action long arm which can be legally reloaded fast is an advantage.

[TGS]

GJM,

Could you please provide some details regarding the spare mag/ammo holder on the stocks of your "scoutski's" ?

I have CZ 527 in 7.62x39 with a 2x7 Nikon. It's one of my favorite rifles. Affordable to shoot with steel case AK stuff, good accuracy with quality brass cases ammo such as Hornady Z max and a good trigger out of the box. It currently has a leather 1907 pattern sling I bought from some "old dude" at the gunshow but I think a true scout sling would suit it better.

Thanks

I would also look at Andy Langois' Rhodesian sling. It doesn't require the third middle swivel, so you can still use it as a carry sling, but still also keep the loop open with your hand for quick hasty slings.

[fn/form]

I have a couple of Savage .308s, one of which is an original Scout. Someone school me why these might not be suitable for the job.

I would love it if they could be clip loaded, but both have DBMs that can be single loaded through the top so they got that going on at least.

Kent Gooch told me the Savage extractors were problematic. Sure enough, at about 4-500rds they failed to complete extraction in both my 16FSSs. All commercial or quality surplus ammo... didnt' see steelcase .308 back then. The extractors were not difficult to replace, but certainly not robust in design or material. I sold my spare extractors/springs/detent balls with the rifles.

For me, a knock around rifle for backcountry living would be a Scout-ish .308, similar to the Hill bros. But there'd be an AR as well.

[GJM]

Jim Brockman made up a custom nylon piece, that screwed to the stock, and holds a spare magazine and two rounds. I go hot and cold on butt cuffs -- love the ammo, but hate how you can loose ammo clambering through the bushes.

I have been buying Andy's slings since he started making them. Great kit. A year ago, we experimented with some new designs that would work like a three point, but use just two swivels. I kind of prefer a long length three point Langlois Ching, or the two point design SLG made up.

[secondstoryguy]

This is more oriented to hunting and general boon docking, but here is my .260. Controlled feed model 70 action, Brown Precision stock, Lilja fluted barrel, cerakoted metal treatment, one piece Tally rings, Leupold 2.5-8 with a Premier style holdover reticle, blind bottom metal, three position sling, reshaped bolt handle, action tuned, etc.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/260bolt_zps3c0eaa76.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/260bolt_zps3c0eaa76.jpg.html)

That's a dead sexy boom stick.

[vaspence]

For some strange reason, I handled one in the fun store the other day. I have hunting rifles and fighting rifles so why am thinking about one these? Plinking and truck gun? Thanks for your comments about the rifle or concept.

Ken

I own one and used it to take 3 whitetails last season. Two of them within a few seconds of each other and the bolt cycled just fine for me. I'm running mine without the flash hider and with a normal mounted 2-7 scope. Is it a Model 70? No, but mine is a good working gun. I also like the fact it has a threaded barrel and DBM. I think it's a great rifle for the price and would work very well for a plinking/truck gun.

[EM_]

Not to overly derail or bump a zombie thread but...

Between this thread, the pics of Guide Guns, and the tub of N frames, does anyone else just want to spend a few days playing with all of GJM's guns? :cool:

[UNK]

I've shot trap with Ruger 10-22's some set up as a scout and some set up as long eye relief. The Scout concept just didn't work for me. I was much faster and much more accurate with a long eye relief scope 3-4". I think the Scout concept could be learned but for me it would require a lot more time and ammo to be as proficient as with the long eye relief. I think from what I've read the long eye relief is a similar concept to the Trijicon Bindon Aiming Concept. https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/company/unique_to_trijicon.php
You may want to give it a try before you invest all the money to set up a Scout Rifle.