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John Hearne
03-31-2014, 10:06 PM
My agency allows rewards, time off, for excellent performance in work related skills. We currently have an award system for physical fitness, based on two mandatory PT tests per year. I wanted to offer a policy for an incentive award for pistol skill. We shoot classic Sigs so P220, 225, 226, 228, 229, & 239 are authorized. IIRC, every caliber/gun combination has 8+1 capacity at a minimum.

I'm looking for something that:
1) Is easy to administer
2) Doesn't require lots of rounds/time
3) Is obtainable by someone who's willing to work a bit.

I was thinking about having everyone shoot the single stack version of the Hackathorn Test - draw and fire 8 rounds to a B8 Bullseye at 10 yards in 10 seconds. Awards would be as follows:
85% - 68 points 2 hours off
90% - 72 points 4 hours off
95% - 76 points 6 hours off
100% - 80 points 8 hours off

I'm also trying to anticipate the "gaming" and have reasonable preventative measures. I've come up with:

2 attempts per 6 months - highest score counts
Must be shot cold - only one attempt per range session
First shot must be DA
Must be shot one at a time with a shot timer to verify 10 seconds
Any shots after 10 second equal automatic disqualification or 10 points per shot over time
All retention devices engaged
Start position is hands at solar plexus level in FI position
Only hits in the 8, 9, & 10 rings count


My biggest concern is the time off brackets. I'm worrried that folks won't try if they're too difficult. I was thinking about a 64 point bracket which would be all 8 rounds in the 8 ring or better which I think is the minimum that should get time off. Something like:
80% - 64 points 2 hours off
85% - 68 points 4 hours off
90% - 72 points 6 hours off
95% - 76 points 8 hours off

Any thoughts or recommendations?

TumblinDown
03-31-2014, 10:34 PM
Gee, shooting for time off -- some people get all the fun! :D

Dave J
03-31-2014, 11:33 PM
Any shots after 10 second equal automatic disqualification or 10 points per shot over time


I like the idea of a point penalty for overtime shot a LOT better than an automatic DQ... the guy who goes a few tenths over but knocks out the X-ring isn't completely failing the exercise, IMHO.

TheTrevor
04-01-2014, 01:10 AM
Listen to your gut on which points bracket to use. 100.0% with no margin for error is going to look unattainable for a lot of shooters.

BN
04-01-2014, 06:02 AM
How many of your officers could make a good score right now? You want something that is possible to a few right now and would be possible to more with some work.

Kevin B.
04-01-2014, 10:18 AM
John,

The Test is a good COF but I would include a reload, especially given that some guys are running single stack guns.

Draw, fire 5 rounds, reload, fire 5 rounds to a B8 Bullseye at 10 yards in 12 seconds.

GJM
04-01-2014, 10:47 AM
That is a harder test, as I bet 1 in 20 could make a reload and ten yard hit in two seconds.

Kevin B.
04-01-2014, 11:32 AM
That is a harder test, as I bet 1 in 20 could make a reload and ten yard hit in two seconds.

Fair enough. Make it 14 seconds.

Wayne Dobbs
04-01-2014, 07:29 PM
Run The Test like it's supposed to be run (which is your original idea). Shooting a clean score on it is not that hard, IF your pistol skills are well polished. You're trying to create initiative on the part of shooters to get better and get a little "gimme" at the same time.

Lon
04-01-2014, 08:53 PM
How about a modified FAST? Add time to breakdowns to compensate for security holsters.......

Wayne Dobbs
04-01-2014, 10:14 PM
How about a modified FAST? Add time to breakdowns to compensate for security holsters.......

Because while the FAST is a great pure shooting drill, it's NOT what you want the great mass of LE shooters doing as a tactically related drill with their service weapons. Reloading is also a great skill to have, but the bulk of LE shooters need to emphasize skill with what they have in the pistol and The Test does a good job of teaching the draw and multiple shot delivery at a controlled pace with surgical accuracy.

John Hearne
04-02-2014, 10:24 AM
We don't have any mandatory selections for duty equipment so some guys have open top pouches and others have flaps. I don't want to turn it into an equipment race. If I can get this approved and everyone is getting 4 hours off, we may to revise - but that isn't a big concern.

This is what I have for test administration. Remember, this is the .gov so inane details are important:

The following guidelines will be used when administering The Test:
• The Test must be administered by a currently certified firearms instructor.
• An instructor can administer The Test to themselves but must have at least two other witnesses present.
• The Test will be only be administered using a shot timer to verify time limits.
• The distance to the target from the firing line will be measured and verified.
• Shooters toes may not be in front of the firing line.
• Each shooter will attempt The Test one at a time in order to assure that over time shots are detected.
• The Test will be shot “cold” – no warmup shots or attempts. It will be shot before qualification attempts.
• The first shot fired must be from a hammer down/double action position.
• Any shot fired after 10 seconds will be penalized 10 points.
• All retention devices on the holster must be engaged at the start of The Test.
• Start positions for the hands is at solar plexus level in an FI position.
• Only hits in the 8, 9, or 10 ring are scored.
• Bullets must clearly break the scoring line to receive the higher value. Radial tears are NOT scored.

What else is needed?

Dave J
04-02-2014, 12:19 PM
What else is needed?

Perhaps you should specify a procedure to be followed in the event of a stoppage/malfunction/breakage, etc., to ensure consistency among all FI's. (I'm inclined towards "tough kitten," but I can imagine that might cause some whining if it wasn't shooter-induced, e.g. a dud primer)

Also, should the 10-second par should be programmed into the timer, so the shooter knows to stop throwing overtime shots?

Wayne Dobbs
04-02-2014, 04:58 PM
We don't have any mandatory selections for duty equipment so some guys have open top pouches and others have flaps. I don't want to turn it into an equipment race. If I can get this approved and everyone is getting 4 hours off, we may to revise - but that isn't a big concern.

This is what I have for test administration. Remember, this is the .gov so inane details are important:

The following guidelines will be used when administering The Test:
• The Test must be administered by a currently certified firearms instructor.
• An instructor can administer The Test to themselves but must have at least two other witnesses present.
• The Test will be only be administered using a shot timer to verify time limits.
• The distance to the target from the firing line will be measured and verified.
• Shooters toes may not be in front of the firing line.
• Each shooter will attempt The Test one at a time in order to assure that over time shots are detected.
• The Test will be shot “cold” – no warmup shots or attempts. It will be shot before qualification attempts.
• The first shot fired must be from a hammer down/double action position.
• Any shot fired after 10 seconds will be penalized 10 points.
• All retention devices on the holster must be engaged at the start of The Test.
• Start positions for the hands is at solar plexus level in an FI position.
• Only hits in the 8, 9, or 10 ring are scored.
• Bullets must clearly break the scoring line to receive the higher value. Radial tears are NOT scored.

What else is needed?

I'd agree that a 10 second par needs to be set. The standards look great. Nyeti should read the one about the toes over the line. He constantly tries to fudge a couple of feet on distance, in his favor of course!

GJM
04-02-2014, 05:04 PM
[QUOTE=John Hearne;212791
What else is needed?[/QUOTE]

different color pins to signify levels of achievement.

Dagga Boy
04-02-2014, 11:07 PM
I'd agree that a 10 second par needs to be set. The standards look great. Nyeti should read the one about the toes over the line. He constantly tries to fudge a couple of feet on distance, in his favor of course!

As a sophisticated shooter, I am simply shooting the drill at a distance of 5 Smoots. If you want to use your simpleton unit of measure in "yards" to go along with your means of other measurements like "minner counts" is fine, but don't hold my stature and good breeding against me.