Why The Emphasis on Center Mass over Headshots?

[GardoneVT]

Given that handguns are weaker weapons then long arms , we can set aside the common basura about "stopping power."

In my casual perusal of many after action reports, it seems the most decisive way to end a gunfight was a shot to the head or spine.Given that, why does the larger training community stress center of mass hits, then headshots?

Wouldn't the most logical setup be to aim for the head from the start, THEN take torso shots as the bad guy now begins to juke for cover or concealment? I do realize this is a tougher row to hoe training wise, but that's the whole point of effective training.

[rekkr870]

Given that handguns are weaker weapons then long arms , we can set aside the common basura about "stopping power."

In my casual perusal of many after action reports, it seems the most decisive way to end a gunfight was a shot to the head or spine.Given that, why does the larger training community stress center of mass hits, then headshots?

Wouldn't the most logical setup be to aim for the head from the start, THEN take torso shots as the bad guy now begins to juke for cover or concealment? I do realize this is a tougher row to hoe training wise, but that's the whole point of effective training.

My rationale would be something like this, "Better to have one sure hit than one sure miss."

The center mass of a man is a rather large target. Under stress it is proven that group sizes will open up considerably, therefore a shot to the head would be risky. Personally, I'd make damn sure I got at least one round center mass before I sent one to the melon.

Also, center mass shots can be a one shot stop. Think about all of the vitals that are in that area. Aorta, Inferior/Superior Vena Cava, thoracic and lumbar spine, lungs, all of which could shut someone down rather quickly.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/01/uqyvahen.jpg

Aim center and midline, preferably over the navel. That would do the trick.

Just my opinion.

[Trukinjp13]

My take would be.

A- headshots have a higher chance of miss under stress. I know I know train to not miss, sounds great til you are in the thick of it.
B- headshots also do not guarantee kill, the skull is hard. Bullet deflection is a lot more possible in a head shot. Also you can hit a jaw bone/or just a cheek shot. Why do you shoot deer broadside behind the shoulder.....hit a vital organ and you have a kill.

I am no expert by any stretch but imho if you hit someone center mass with a few well placed shots. You have a good chance at stopping the threat. Softer tissue equals better penetration.

[MD7305]

High probability target vs. low probability target. I would think it would be easier under stress and conditions to get torso hits instead of head hits. Could head shots be more incapacitating? I would think so but I'm not sure head shots would always be practical under a variety of reasons. I'm sure some members here are that skilled but I'm certainly not.

[Kyle Reese]

Lots of good stuff to hit in the torso as enumerated above.

Also, the human skull is resilient, can take a lot of abuse and bullets can (and do) deflect from the cranium.

[45dotACP]

To me the reason is "because handguns aren't rifles". Bear with me, this is just the musing of a nursing student, but I'd think a faster, more powerful impact such as with a rifle would make the headshot more certainly deadly, even if not perfectly placed.

The skull is a very hard thing...the "Hollywood headshot" is a perfectly placed middle forehead shot, but frankly, that's a bad option. It may not penetrate the hardened, curved frontal bone of the cranium. Depending on the round, it may bounce off, it may just stop, or it may just penetrate an inch or two. That may or may not be enough to stop. The definitive lethality of headshots is a more certain when the shot goes in the triangular shaped space defined by the eyes and the tip of the nose because the nose area is considerably more bones, meaning more articulation, meaning the greater the possibility of weakness. The frontal bone is one solid sheet of bone that is curved to make things bounce off and away from the organ it protects. It does so very well. That little nasal area, if the bullet goes directly through, will lead to the brain stem, which is where the greatest likelihood of a stop will occur.

Also, so many people assume that a headshot will immediately incapacitate, but if you do it wrong. People can still function with brain damage. The way I see it, I'd sooner go for a shot to the neck as opposed to the head (a very vascular zone, and the bullet may still move fast enough to clip the spinal cord or at the very least, strike a vertebra so hard that it impairs mobility)

Another concern is that the head itself is a very articulated part of the body. It has a fantastic range of motion and so many different ways to move. Add this to the fact that most reflexive startles involve some jerking motion of the head, and you might not be guaranteed a shot into that very small portion of your target. And the bad guy will almost certainly be mobile or capable of moving at least their head. Better to go for the center of mass where you have the right atrium and ventricle, inferior/superior vena cava, ascending/descending aorta and possibly the spine (but don't count on that, as the spine is deep enough to the precordium, that the bullet will have likely expended all of it's energy if it is a hollowpoint).

Again, I'm not a professional, but being a fan of healthcare, you tend to hear (and see) some pretty weird stuff. Yes, head trauma is more dangerous, but two gunshot wounds in the center of the chest makes surgeons pretty antsy too. Shock sets in pretty quick when the great vessels are damaged. Don't count on one shot stops, head or otherwise.

[Josh Runkle]

Shooting a static target while standing still is much different than a moving target while moving. In my opinion, a better standard would be a head-box sized target inside of the center of mass area, with the understanding that groups open up when you are moving, and that they open up significantly when the target and you are both moving.

[TheTrevor]

A surprising number of people who stop as a result of getting shot with a handgun do so not because of incapacitating injury, but because of physical and/or psychological shock.

Last time I checked, unless you're a SWAT/military sniper the general goal in shooting someone is to render them ineffective for further action, i.e. fall down and stay down. Given the significantly lower probability of landing a headshot with a handgun in a real live high-stress situation (vs a CoM shot) and considering that the goal is to incapacitate, the initial target should be CoM/A-zone. You're more likely to hit, and even if you don't hit vitals you stand a good chance of incapacitating via shock.

Obviously I'm not talking about 1-percenters and/or opponents in body armor. Shooting above (head/neck) or below (pelvis/thigh) CoM should always be in mind as secondary targets, but IMHO it's irresponsible to go for those first unless that's all that's in your line of sight and you have to shoot RIGHT NOW or someone dies.

[KevinB]

The head moves in multiple axis on a moving axis...

Get a hit first -- you can move to head if tgt remains active - as with good CoM hits the tgt even in plates is generally going to be disrupted a bit.

[LSP552]

The head is the most animated part if the human body. It moves, a lot, and is a relatively small target compared to the center chest. Spending some time on even a simple moving target system will show you how little margin for error there is on a head-size target. Force on force training will show you just how much a living head moves.

Look at the hit ratios in real fights where the aiming point is center mass, and then think about reducing the chance of a hit even more. There is a reason that center mass is the standard aiming point except for some very specialized applications/needs that don't have anything to do with general self defense.

Also, the real target on the head is not the entire thing. I'm personally aware of more than one thug that had a pistol bullet skid around on his skull. Most cops will say the same.

Ken

[DocGKR]

It is all situational with distance, time, relative movement, barriers, and background all playing a role.

IIRC, Nyeti used to train folks at his old agency to go for a head shot at close range--I believe they had a fairly long string of successful OIS incidents ending quickly and decisively in favor of LE when using that tactic...

Take a look at the FAST test--two shots two a low percentage "head" target about the same size as the eye region and then four shots to a COM type target.

[WBower]

It was consistently drilled into my head during my time in the Army, COM COM COM. It all made sense the first time I had to put the training to good use. The fact of the matter is that it is easier and faster to land a hit on the target when you're aiming for the largest cross sectional area.

[Slavex]

This


The head moves in multiple axis on a moving axis...

Get a hit first -- you can move to head if tgt remains active - as with good CoM hits the tgt even in plates is generally going to be disrupted a bit.

[Chuck Haggard]

All "center mass" not being equal of course.

The effect of service caliber JHPs to the torso when placed above the diaphragm/below the collar bone has been MUCH more dramatic in my observation than when hits are lower.

I have lost count of the number of people I have seen who had been shot in the head who were walking and talking afterwards. The last such person I saw was hit in the back of the head at close range with .40 180gr FMJFP

[TCinVA]

2237

.45 ACP round fired just under the eye socket. Hit the sinus cavity, then turned down...blew out a couple of teeth and settled in the lower jaw.

The victim (from south of the border) walked into Sherman House's office off of a bus 5 months after the incident wanting to get his teeth fixed.

Head shots can be very effective at stopping a fight...but hitting the head under gunfight conditions with a handgun is very difficult as any FOF evolution will show you. Most folks toting a handgun haven't trained themselves to the point where they can reliably pull off a head shot, even at close range. Having them hit the bad guy is better than having them send rounds into heaven-knows what else. SOP's for police departments are a big deal because if a cop shoots the wrong person their training is on trial. If they cap some nice little ol' lady and argue they did so because their department taught them to take low percentage shots then the department is going to be writing big checks. Administrators get clammy hands when you even mention the L word...

[Stephen]

I have lost count of the number of people I have seen who had been shot in the head who were walking and talking afterwards.

Jesus...

[SteveK]

The head is the most animated part if the human body. It moves, a lot, and is a relatively small target compared to the center chest. Spending some time on even a simple moving target system will show you how little margin for error there is on a head-size target. Force on force training will show you just how much a living head moves.

Look at the hit ratios in real fights where the aiming point is center mass, and then think about reducing the chance of a hit even more. There is a reason that center mass is the standard aiming point except for some very specialized applications/needs that don't have anything to do with general self defense.

Also, the real target on the head is not the entire thing. I'm personally aware of more than one thug that had a pistol bullet skid around on his skull. Most cops will say the same.

Ken

This^^^

When bullets start flying, people get to moving. That usually includes all parties involved. Also, an initial headshot will probably not go over well in the inevitable wrongful death suit as it will be portrayed as an execution. Although it will probably be defensible, do you really need the headache?

[Trukinjp13]

This^^^

When bullets start flying, people get to moving. That usually includes all parties involved. Also, an initial headshot will probably not go over well in the inevitable wrongful death suit as it will be portrayed as an execution. Although it will probably be defensible, do you really need the headache?
Ha! Headache! I know Poor taste... But funny

[KevinB]

This^^^

When bullets start flying, people get to moving. That usually includes all parties involved. Also, an initial headshot will probably not go over well in the inevitable wrongful death suit as it will be portrayed as an execution. Although it will probably be defensible, do you really need the headache?

Even worse if they where handcuffed and kneeling facing away from you at the time...

Those ones are really tough to articulate.

[DocGKR]

"I have lost count of the number of people I have seen who had been shot in the head who were walking and talking afterwards."

Used to see this every month in the ED...

[Little Creek]

Shooting a static target while standing still is much different than a moving target while moving. In my opinion, a better standard would be a head-box sized target inside of the center of mass area, with the understanding that groups open up when you are moving, and that they open up significantly when the target and you are both moving.

Amen brother. Don't rely on a one shot stop, either. IMHO, a one shot stop should only occur if one fails to seat their magazine.

[DocGKR]

Good advice.

[TheTrevor]

Doc, was there any loss of vision or other sensory impairment in the case you shared above?

Not the weirdest bullet-vs-head interaction I've ever heard of, but it's probably in the top 10. The incidents where a bullet hits just right and takes a ride around the inside of the skull without damaging the brain are pretty fascinating.

[David Armstrong]

Given that handguns are weaker weapons then long arms , we can set aside the common basura about "stopping power."

In my casual perusal of many after action reports, it seems the most decisive way to end a gunfight was a shot to the head or spine.Given that, why does the larger training community stress center of mass hits, then headshots?

Wouldn't the most logical setup be to aim for the head from the start, THEN take torso shots as the bad guy now begins to juke for cover or concealment? I do realize this is a tougher row to hoe training wise, but that's the whole point of effective training.
It is already hard enough to hit what you want in a serious social situation. CoM just improves the chance of getting a hit, any hit, which is usually what we need. Head shots sort of rank up there with "shoot the gun out of his hand" or "just shoot him in the leg" as a first choice. My $.02.

[DocGKR]

Was not my case, but it is not at all unusual. Few of the patient have any visual or other sensory impairment.

[45dotACP]

Was not my case, but it is not at all unusual. Few of the patient have any visual or other sensory impairment.

Precisely why I'm excited for ED clinical rotation...

[BillB]

A wise man once told me to aim "center mass on whatever you have to aim at"

Outside the square range the bad guys may not give you a full frontal target

[Chuck Haggard]

A wise man once told me to aim "center mass on whatever you have to aim at"

Outside the square range the bad guys may not give you a full frontal target


I teach our folks to shoot the "center of available mass" of whatever body part the bad guy gives them, as often as possible, until the either quit, fall over, or something better to shoot at becomes available.

[rsa-otc]

I teach our folks to shoot the "center of available mass" of whatever body part the bad guy gives them, as often as possible, until the either quit, fall over, or something better to shoot at becomes available.

Ditto.

[jetfire]

I teach our folks to shoot the "center of available mass" of whatever body part the bad guy gives them, as often as possible, until the either quit, fall over, or something better to shoot at becomes available.

That same advice has been presented in a couple of training classes I've been to. The line was "if someone is shooting at you, and you can hit them somewhere in the meat, take the shot. Maybe you'll get a more important piece of meat to shoot at next."

[sheriffoconee]

A shot to the head doesn't guarantee as much as you might think. There is a guy here who shot his jaw off with a 12 ga shotgun, I saw him the other day. Ugly as hell but he was buying groceries, so he can still eat. He hasn't tried suicide again, that I know of

[BoppaBear]

I'm far from an expert, but I've been taught to shoot at the largest possible target, as many times as it takes to stop the threat.

There are times where headshots are applicable, but other than ATTEMPTING to evacuate the cranium of Mr. BG as he reveals himself/chooses inadequate cover, think about the other opportunities and whether the average shooter should be taking a head shot...ie a hostage, close bystanders, poor backdrop, etc. Plus, for many, it takes longer to line up a head shot.

If center mass is good enough for snipers, it's good enough for me (even with the ballistic disadvantage of a pistol...capacity helps).

[Casual Friday]

If a person spends even a small amount of time shooting at head size targets past, oh let's say 10 yards, they will see how easy it is to miss once in a while. Add stress and a moving target into the mix and I can't imagine it gets easier.

[Failure2Stop]

Take headshots when you can guarantee the hit or thoracic isn't working/available.
Take what you can get that has the highest probability of success. Partial torso hits can be just as hard as partial CNS, just because it isn't easy doesn't mean that you won't ever need it.

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[DocGKR]

Well said.

[Keltyke]

Simply put, it's a larger target that doesn't move around as much.

Since "stopping power" is a joke in a hand gun, even a dead center head shot doesn't guarantee the bad guy goes down instantly.

[Failure2Stop]

Simply put, it's a larger target that doesn't move around as much.

Since "stopping power" is a joke in a hand gun, even a dead center head shot doesn't guarantee the bad guy goes down instantly.

Except that a dead center CNS hit will drop a threat with far more certainty than a perfect COM hit.

Switches and timers. Sometimes it has to happen now.

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[warpedcamshaft]

I am hoping NYeti will come along and chime in...

I have always found his thoughts to be very interesting considering his experience. If I remember, and feel free to correct me, the idea was: 2 hits to the upper chest, and if the head is still there... take it.

[Fly320s]

Lots of good info here, but I'd like to clarify a common misconception I see in this thread.

One should not aim at center of mass of a human. Center of Mass of an adult male is near the belly button. One should be shooting at the high thoracic cavity, which is roughly between the nipples and the bottom of the neck. That is about 8 inches higher than a "gut shot." The high chest area contains all of the important vital parts, which when damaged, will result in a quicker incapacitation, which is the whole reason to shoot someone.

Take a look at the image Rekkr870 posted. See how high in the chest the heart is? The heart is above the nipple line. The Aorta is above that. That is what we want to damage to stop the attacker quickly, assuming we can't or won't get a CNS stop.

Now, look at the image again. Where is the center of the mass in that image? Between the naval and the kidneys. There just aren't as many vital organs there.

The term "center of mass" should be dropped from this discussion. Just say "high chest."

[KevinB]

In an ideal world...


The easier shot is the center of visible mass -- (which most folks like me just abbreviate to CoM).

Time, Distance, Cover (or lack of), Threat, Weapon and many other aspects will dictate what the "best" target is for you at the time.

The best target obviously being the target you can hit.
Misses only count in Court and Thermonuclear weapons...

[JM Campbell]

Except that a dead center CNS hit will drop a threat with far more certainty than a perfect COM hit.

Switches and timers. Sometimes it has to happen now.

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This statement is money in the bank.

Jack aka F2S had a very sobering discussion after class in College Station about 2 years ago, you can blaze away and miss fast, repetitive accuracy at an expedited rate guarantees survival.

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[Dagga Boy]

I am hoping NYeti will come along and chime in...

I have always found his thoughts to be very interesting considering his experience. If I remember, and feel free to correct me, the idea was: 2 hits to the upper chest, and if the head is still there... take it.


We trained at traditional failure drills extensively. Not necessarily to make that a required response, but to have my people not dump lots of rounds into something not working. The benefit was two fold. They didn't have high round count shootings and forcing lots of head shots and tight scoring made for better body hits. Those who got failures were comfortable going to the head (if the muzzle is going that way in recoil and its still there, take it). Those who needed head shots for hostage situations were comfortable taking them. We also saw all the crooks drop immediately even with non-lethal hits to the head (which is why we always did singles to the head and controlled shots). The key is to get the head fairly stationary as its ability to move rapidly is the issue with hitting it, and people tend to move it quickly when it is threatened.

Personally, the head shot is a very viable solution, but it must be trained for. I would use a direct head shot for a surprise shot in a tight situation. I had a situation where it looked like I was going to end up in the middle of an armed robbery (not on duty or in uniform). I got a side position on the BG and was focused on his ear as where I was planning shot #1 to go from the 1911 I was carrying. Just prior to things going bad, the guy turned at the last minute and saw me positioned with a barrier and I am sure he figured out exactly what I was doing just like I was sure of what he was doing. It ended up with a "just give me a water" and he walked out, but it was a case of me not wanting to give him a chance to fire.

We should be training regularly to make tight shots on any target and we need to have the mindset that when things are not going as planned, to start looking to turn the threat off in the most reliable way possible.

[hufnagel]

What would you advocate then for those who haven't trained (for whatever reason, call them the crawlers in the self-defense game... it's where I still consider myself) extensively enough to be either proficient or confident to make a head shot? Is Mozambique the place to start? Something else?

[Failure2Stop]

What would you advocate then for those who haven't trained (for whatever reason, call them the crawlers in the self-defense game... it's where I still consider myself) extensively enough to be either proficient or confident to make a head shot? Is Mozambique the place to start? Something else?

Know what distance you can hit a 3" circle, on demand. Work on doing it faster and from further than where you are now.

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[DocGKR]

Good advice. 3x5" cards are a great practice tool for this type of shooting...