Slide lock release versus slingshotting

[tomr]

I would venture a bet that the entire forum here does not slingshot the slide.

How much?

[LittleLebowski]

How much?

I suppose not you. I've met and shot with (informally and at matches) a great deal of people here. This forum overall, has a very high rate of proficiency with the pistol and it's humbling to be able to shoot with this community as I always learn from the experience. Not slingshotting the slide is a commonality shared with every shooter here that I've shot with.

[tomr]

I suppose not you. I've met and shot with (informally and at matches) a great deal of people here. This forum overall, has a very high rate of proficiency with the pistol and it's humbling to be able to shoot with this community as I always learn from the experience. Not slingshotting the slide is a commonality shared with every shooter here that I've shot with.

Ive not many anyone here or shot with them. I am fascinated by what you all have to say. I was taught, in 1967 by the USMC, to reach over the top of the slide, grab the serrations, push it to the rear and let go - I gather this is slingshotting. Always done it that way. It scares me to think where I went and how little I knew (or how little we were trained). Glad to be here reading this....

I do however, think I've read that using slide lock or my method were acceptable alternatives to accomplish the same thing. You all think other wise?

[LittleLebowski]

Ive not many anyone here or shot with them. I am fascinated by what you all have to say. I was taught, in 1967 by the USMC, to reach over the top of the slide, grab the serrations, push it to the rear and let go - I gather this is slingshotting. Always done it that way. It scares me to think where I went and how little I knew (or how little we were trained). Glad to be here reading this....

I do however, think I've read that using slide lock or my method were acceptable alternatives to accomplish the same thing. You all think other wise?


I was taught a different method than what I use today (along with slingshotting as an alternate) by the Marine Corps in the late 90's and early 2000's but I obviously did not see that method as carved in stone for time immemorial. I certainly don't see methods different than what I was taught in the Corps as somehow scary to me but I'm quite vocal about the woeful amount of actual trigger time and weapons manipulations for the average grunt, let alone the pogues.

Insofar as your question, that was mean for the community and personally, I see no need for the slingshot approach unless using gloves.

[JSGlock34]

There are dedicated threads on the merits of using the slide release as opposed to slingshot/overhand rack. I think the consensus is that the slide release offers a distinct speed advantage.

Interestingly if you add a Wilson Shok Buff to a 1911 the slingshot may no longer be an option - you have to use the slide release.


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[hufnagel]

I've been training myself to slingshot instead of slide release, since not all of my guns are ambidextrous and I'm a lefty.

[tomr]

There are dedicated threads on the merits of using the slide release as opposed to slingshot/overhand rack. I think the consensus is that the slide release offers a distinct speed advantage.

Interestingly if you add a Wilson Shok Buff to a 1911 the slingshot may no longer be an option - you have to use the slide release.


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I have two Wilsons and use shok buffs in both - go figure....

[JSGlock34]

Most members of my particular shooting group are lefties. Todd teaches a pretty nifty method of activating a right hand slide release that is still faster than an overhand rack.


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[will_1400]

I've been training myself to slingshot instead of slide release, since not all of my guns are ambidextrous and I'm a lefty.

My only pistol right now is an M&P 9, but I practice slingshotting along with hitting the slide release because I too am a southpaw.

[JonInWA]

Using the slide release is faster-provided that the slide release is user-friendly in terms of configuration and positioning. That can vary from gun to gun, so it's utility can vary. Slingshotting is certainly a valid option/tool in the toolbox-there have been situations where my hand/body/gun position leads to using it-but generally/usually/most of the time, I'll use, and suggest using the slide release.

Best, Jon

[Artemas]

Interestingly if you add a Wilson Shok Buff to a 1911 the slingshot may no longer be an option - you have to use the slide release.
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Holy crap. I thought my gun was just plain broke (bought it used with a shok buff installed) :o

It depends on the gun, but generally I power stroke as my G21 and M&Ps have poor slide releases.

[KeeFus]

My first exposure to semi auto pistols was at Ft McClellan, AL in 1989. We were taught the sling shot method using both the 1911 and Beretta. I honestly think it was easier for them to teach the sling shot method en masse because of the two platforms (I remember that a lot of MP units were still running 1911's at that time). I still didn't carry a Beretta until 1993.

1994 I ran a Beretta 92 FS in the academy. They also taught the sling shot. I have taken several classes since then and most say do one or the other...not both. I do occasionally train to use the sling shot and other methods to get the pistol back in battery just to do something different but the slide stop is my preferred method now-a-days as it is faster for me.

[JSGlock34]

I have two Wilsons and use shok buffs in both - go figure....

Depends on the brand. My Springfield won't slingshot with a Shok Buff - the buff reduces slide travel just enough to preclude the slingshot method.


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[GardoneVT]

Using the slide release is faster-provided that the slide release is user-friendly in terms of configuration and positioning. That can vary from gun to gun, so it's utility can vary. Slingshotting is certainly a valid option/tool in the toolbox-there have been situations where my hand/body/gun position leads to using it-but generally/usually/most of the time, I'll use, and suggest using the slide release.

Best, Jon
This.

With my Berettas, hitting the slide lock makes for fast reloads. On a factory M&P9 and Ruger SR9, not so much with my long thumbs. Different guns, different hand sizes, mean different approaches.

[Tamara]

I think the consensus is that the slide release offers a distinct speed advantage.

I think it also offers an advantage in reliability; less likely to screw up and ride the slide accidentally.


I've been training myself to slingshot instead of slide release, since not all of my guns are ambidextrous and I'm a lefty.

Shooting WHO I just use my trigger finger to run the release (amusingly enough, that habit has carried over to the M&P, whose ambi slide stop function has never been used.)


I'll add that, up 'til 2010 or so, I was an avid "Fine motor skill gamer stuff get you killed on the street wharrrgarrbl!" over-the-top power-stroke-the-weapon-system slingshotter. I feel better now.

[DocGKR]

Run both methods on the clock; invariably I and virtually everyone else I know is faster using a slide lock, be it a 1911, M9, M11, 3rd gen S&W, HK USP/P30/P45, Glock, or M&P...

[Rich]

Holy crap. I thought my gun was just plain broke (bought it used with a shok buff installed) :o

It depends on the gun, but generally I power stroke as my G21 and M&Ps have poor slide releases.

I used the shok buffer on my C1911. never had a problems
except they need to be replaced often.

[Rich]

Slide lock.

[Tamara]

I used the shok buffer on my C1911.

Why?

[hufnagel]

Most members of my particular shooting group are lefties. Todd teaches a pretty nifty method of activating a right hand slide release that is still faster than an overhand rack.


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Maybe he or someone else would be kind enough to expound on this method. I'm always willing to learn as I would much prefer to use the slide release. Another tool in the toolbox and all that.

[JSGlock34]

My first exposure to semi auto pistols was at Ft McClellan, AL in 1989. We were taught the sling shot method using both the 1911 and Beretta. I honestly think it was easier for them to teach the sling shot method en masse because of the two platforms (I remember that a lot of MP units were still running 1911's at that time). I still didn't carry a Beretta until 1993.

1994 I ran a Beretta 92 FS in the academy. They also taught the sling shot. I have taken several classes since then and most say do one or the other...not both. I do occasionally train to use the sling shot and other methods to get the pistol back in battery just to do something different but the slide stop is my preferred method now-a-days as it is faster for me.

This is an important point and I think a reason why the slingshot or over-hand techniques are so widely encountered. These techniques make a lot of sense when teaching a large number of inexperienced or transitioning shooters in a limited time window. At one time Glock's training department advocated this technique (my experience is dated and I don't know what they teach now) and even the nomenclature they used for the firearm controls reinforced it ('slide stop' not 'slide release'). Considering the widespread use of Glock pistols, Glock has probably provided this training to countless law enforcement departments and military units, and some of those base their own training curriculum off of Glock's original format.

Larry Vickers points out that among the Glock's many attributes is that it is "Incredibly simple to operate - 2 levers/buttons and 1 is optional." I'll take a SWAG that he didn't mean the magazine release was the optional one. With a large group of new shooters, teaching the slingshot/overhand method essentially eliminates the use of one control from the training. No doubt this was considered a plus when transitioning revolver shooters to the more 'complex' semiautomatic.

As pointed out earlier, this technique is also ambidextrous - no wasted time explaining different techniques due to handedness. It will likely work on the majority of pistols encountered on the street or battlefield should the need arise. There are also some folks who, for whatever reason, simply cannot reach or reliably activate the slide release.

Last, it is very reliable. With new shooters reliability is more important than speed - we're more concerned that they get an empty firearm back into action than whether they can shave a 1-2 seconds off of their reload time. Considering the high capacity of many modern firearms, the small difference in reload time may well be inconsequential for most users.

It is a very uncomplicated to train, reliable technique.

However, many of us have progressed beyond this level of instruction into training that has pushed our skills. We are looking for efficiencies wherever they can be found. Using the slide release during reloads is undeniably a faster, more efficient technique.

None of these techniques is the only way or the right way - they all have their place depending on the individual shooter, their training, skill level, mission, gear and situation.

[Totem Polar]

With the caveat that I'm no expert, I think defining terms is important. i would have to vote "none of the above", based on what I've been taught.

Slingshot:

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/slingshot.jpg

Overhand:

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/run-your-gun-cover.jpg

I could be off base here, but I've seen plenty of people get chastised in class for using the former method. I use the latter, but I'm no pro operator. Incidentally, I was also taught to use the support (left) hand on the lock/release by LFI affiliates, so I've seen both sides of the argument. I'm an overhand guy for commonality/reliability. But, again, grain of salt that relative to *many* on this board.

[JSGlock34]

I think your exemplars of 'slingshot' and 'overhand' are fine, but each has its advocates and merits. This has come up from time to time (I've linked some threads) and not just in the context of reloading, but also in clearing malfunctions (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2671-T-R-B-Overhand-or-Slingshot). Again, gear plays a role - my first pistols (a S&W 5903 and a Beretta M9) had slide mounted safeties and lent themselves more to the slingshot method. This thread on slingshotting (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11237-Slingshotting) was derived from discussion on the particulars of manipulating the slide on CZ pistols, but largely debated the merits of each technique.

Come to think of it, there are a lot of these threads...

Your point though is well taken - the poll should probably be reworded to read 'slingshot/overhand' or overhand should be a distinct choice.

[Tamara]

I could be off base here, but I've seen plenty of people get chastised in class for using the former method. I use the latter, but I'm no pro operator.

To clarify, I did my slingshot overhand ( ;) ) but I don't do that no mo'.

[farscott]

After many years of using the overhand method, I now use my left thumb to run the slide release as my right thumb and fingers are too short without changing grip.

[Redhat]

Either...depending on the user friendliness of the slide stop/release.

[tomr]

Ah! I'm an "Overhander." Will attempt to see if thumb wants to participate....

Thanks for all this

[Arclight]

Maybe he or someone else would be kind enough to expound on this method. I'm always willing to learn as I would much prefer to use the slide release. Another tool in the toolbox and all that.

Sure, I'll weigh in here. Short version -- I was always trained to use the overhand method based on "gross motor skills" and "most reliable" and such, especially as a lefty. While I have mixed feelings about the former argument, I have proven that the overhand can be more reliable as far as gun function goes. (More on that later.) As I started to speed up, however, I had a couple of instructors encourage me to try using the slide release instead, since it's significantly faster. At first I found it impossibly fiddly and rejected the idea, but eventually Todd talked me into giving it an honest try and, with some practice, found I could shave real time off my reloads and do it as consistently as the overhand rack (which itself can be tricky if your hands or gun are wet).

As far as how to use the slide release (slide stop lever?) as a lefty, here's my preferred method: When the heel of the support hand seats the magazine, the first and/or middle finger of that hand reach around and pull the slide release down, releasing the slide. (To visualize, simulate where your hands would be as the magazine is seated. Unless you do something funky with your hands, the support hand is probably spread with the fingers on the side of the gun where the slide release is.) While this isn't quite as easy as it would be if you were right handed and could just use your thumb, it does work well with practice. It also puts your support hand much closer to where it needs to end up than it would be with an overhand slide release, so I find it to be much faster. You *may* want to change the size/shape of your slide stop lever if you find it hard to catch in a hurry.

So, back to reliability. I normally shoot a Gen3 G19, and this method works perfectly with that gun. However, I (used to) occasionally shoot a G34. What I found is that the slide release method was not always giving me enough forward force on the slide to fully seat it and I was getting malfunctions (not frequently, but my G19 has never malfunctioned in ~8k+ rounds, so this got my attention). I talked to a bunch of Glock armorers, including one resident here, and a few of them pointed out that Glock doesn't consider that lever a slide release, but rather a slide stop. The "official" method for sending the slide forward is the overhand rack. Apparently some of the bigger guns (or possibly as the springs age, get dirty, or a combination thereof), need that little bit of extra tension and clean release gained in the overhand movement to seat it fully every time. I'm not 100% sure that's the diagnosis, but I never had that problem when using the overhand, I exclusively had it when using the slide stop, and all the mechanics seemed to work out when I tested it dry. Sometimes it just didn't go quite all the way into place. For the record, I have since adopted two G17s (g3 and g4) and neither has any issue with the slide stop method.

The best advice I have for lefties is to put a bunch of range and dry fire time into whatever method you think will work best for you. Then go take a class or compete (or something where you've got a bit of stress on you) and see if the wheels come off. 99% of the time, I find the underhand slide release method is perfectly doable under stress. That said, I still find that when I get really stressed, my lizard brain goes back to the overhand rack, and I'm okay with that. Just shows that the years of training I put into that early on have stuck with me.

[NETim]

Sure, I'll weigh in here. Short version -- I was always trained to use the overhand method based on "gross motor skills" and "most reliable" and such, especially as a lefty. While I have mixed feelings about the former argument, I have proven that the overhand can be more reliable as far as gun function goes. (More on that later.) As I started to speed up, however, I had a couple of instructors encourage me to try using the slide release instead, since it's significantly faster. At first I found it impossibly fiddly and rejected the idea, but eventually Todd talked me into giving it an honest try and, with some practice, found I could shave real time off my reloads and do it as consistently as the overhand rack (which itself can be tricky if your hands or gun are wet).

As far as how to use the slide release (slide stop lever?) as a lefty, here's my preferred method: When the heel of the support hand seats the magazine, the first and/or middle finger of that hand reach around and pull the slide release down, releasing the slide. (To visualize, simulate where your hands would be as the magazine is seated. Unless you do something funky with your hands, the support hand is probably spread with the fingers on the side of the gun where the slide release is.) While this isn't quite as easy as it would be if you were right handed and could just use your thumb, it does work well with practice. It also puts your support hand much closer to where it needs to end up than it would be with an overhand slide release, so I find it to be much faster. You *may* want to change the size/shape of your slide stop lever if you find it hard to catch in a hurry.

So, back to reliability. I normally shoot a Gen3 G19, and this method works perfectly with that gun. However, I (used to) occasionally shoot a G34. What I found is that the slide release method was not always giving me enough forward force on the slide to fully seat it and I was getting malfunctions (not frequently, but my G19 has never malfunctioned in ~8k+ rounds, so this got my attention). I talked to a bunch of Glock armorers, including one resident here, and a few of them pointed out that Glock doesn't consider that lever a slide release, but rather a slide stop. The "official" method for sending the slide forward is the overhand rack. Apparently some of the bigger guns (or possibly as the springs age, get dirty, or a combination thereof), need that little bit of extra tension and clean release gained in the overhand movement to seat it fully every time. I'm not 100% sure that's the diagnosis, but I never had that problem when using the overhand, I exclusively had it when using the slide stop, and all the mechanics seemed to work out when I tested it dry. Sometimes it just didn't go quite all the way into place. For the record, I have since adopted two G17s (g3 and g4) and neither has any issue with the slide stop method.

The best advice I have for lefties is to put a bunch of range and dry fire time into whatever method you think will work best for you. Then go take a class or compete (or something where you've got a bit of stress on you) and see if the wheels come off. 99% of the time, I find the underhand slide release method is perfectly doable under stress. That said, I still find that when I get really stressed, my lizard brain goes back to the overhand rack, and I'm okay with that. Just shows that the years of training I put into that early on have stuck with me.

This is exactly my experience. I have no trouble dropping the slide with the tips of my support hand after I seat the mag. Significantly faster to get back into action.

[ST911]

I was a long time user and advocate of the overhand method, arguing against the slide stops/slide releases and the slingshot as less reliable methods of slide manipulation. A couple of years ago or so, it was one of the truths I challenged and learning occurred. For me, the slide stop is faster and just as reliable. It's a good decision for me.

For groups of recruits, new shooters, or those that won't work their skills, I think the overhand method remains a better option. As others note, it works with a broad range of guns, both hands, situations which need the slide to be run, and requires less overall time to teach/maintain.

See also: Automated side-step technique.


Run both methods on the clock; invariably I and virtually everyone else I know is faster using a slide lock, be it a 1911, M9, M11, 3rd gen S&W, HK USP/P30/P45, Glock, or M&P...

Overhand method adds about half a second to my reload time. The slingshot slightly more, .6-.7.

[PPGMD]

I broke the slide stop on my main M&P so I am sling shotting it for the moment. I am too lazy to take it down, when I will be doing a detail strip in another 1000 rounds anyways.

But I typically hit the slide stop for my slide lock reloads.

[hufnagel]

When the heel of the support hand seats the magazine, the first and/or middle finger of that hand reach around and pull the slide release down, releasing the slide.[/B] (To visualize, simulate where your hands would be as the magazine is seated. Unless you do something funky with your hands, the support hand is probably spread with the fingers on the side of the gun where the slide release is.) While this isn't quite as easy as it would be if you were right handed and could just use your thumb, it does work well with practice. It also puts your support hand much closer to where it needs to end up than it would be with an overhand slide release, so I find it to be much faster. You *may* want to change the size/shape of your slide stop lever if you find it hard to catch in a hurry.


I think I understand. I've given it a few attempts and the first thing I notice is my trigger finger is in the way during the reload. I need to consciously pull it back and make a "hook" with the tip resting on the slide release pivot to leave a space for my weak hand middle finger to slide up and snag the release. That sound about right to you?

[Arclight]

I think I understand. I've given it a few attempts and the first thing I notice is my trigger finger is in the way during the reload. I need to consciously pull it back and make a "hook" with the tip resting on the slide release pivot to leave a space for my weak hand middle finger to slide up and snag the release. That sound about right to you?

You know, to be honest, I don't really know where my trigger finger ends up when I do it for real. It's either along the frame/slide joint where it is for the rest of the reload, or possibly floating. I ended up with both permutations trying to mime it out at speed with a blue gun. I'll have to pay attention to that on my next range trip.

It may depend on the size of your hands and how high up your grip is. I grip as high as my strong hand will go without getting slide bite, and I have large hands (XL-XXL gloves) so on a G19 the release lever is around my first knuckle. I just reach over my hand and press the catch down toward the knuckle. I'm not really near my strong hand fingers.

I may not be quite understanding what you're saying though. If this answer doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll see if I can figure out what's going on.

I'd say try doing it dry a bunch of times without thinking too hard about where your hands are and see what happens. If you're having problems, then go back and dissect it to see what needs to change and drill that in. I don't recall having to consciously do anything differently with my strong hand.


ETA:
I don't know if this actually helps with visualizing it, but it might. I've got the G17 here and the slide catch is under my knuckle there. When reloading, that support hand comes around just like it slid up from where it is in my grip, wraps over the strong hand, and pushes the slide catch down. As the slide goes forward, it slides back to its grip as I press back out.
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/HSP%20D3%202013/HSP1_zps8331396e.jpg

[KevinB]

I'd argue for the military that the easiest way to teach a new pistol shooter is that the reloading thumb depressed the slide release/lock whatever. Kind of like loading and charging an M4...
Of course some general asshattery exists about mashing the bolt catch to death with the palm of the hand as well (sigh).


I auto forward ;)

With slidestop depress with my reloading thumb as it comes back onto the gun as a back up.

[breakingtime91]

I'd argue for the military that the easiest way to teach a new pistol shooter is that the reloading thumb depressed the slide release/lock whatever. Kind of like loading and charging an M4...
Of course some general asshattery exists about mashing the bolt catch to death with the palm of the hand as well (sigh).


I auto forward ;)

With slidestop depress with my reloading thumb as it comes back onto the gun as a back up.


I spent alot of time arguing with higher ups while in the Marine infantry that using the thumb to send the bolt home was more positive and just as easy under stress, but some people just wont get away from doctrine. Never understood why you could hit the mag realease or clear a double feed but not use the bolt catch or slide stop (someone will bring up injury). Always had fun watching guys slapping the reciever repeatedly, then going to the thumb...
Sorry for the slight derail

[hufnagel]

Working on where the hardware needs to go so that the software can try and make this work.

[Rich]

Why?

My gunsmith told me to. Back then he said it would help when shooting max loads. He also said it would act as a buffer when the slide goes back . and something about metal to metal wasn't good.

They were super cheap back then under a buck or so for a little plastic ring.

After a couple days out shooting the tiny plastic buffer needed to be replaced.

So the gunsmith didn't know what he was talking about? Wouldn't surprise me.

[David Armstrong]

I've been training myself to slingshot instead of slide release, since not all of my guns are ambidextrous and I'm a lefty.
Yep. Slingshot is a universal response and works pretty much across the board and may give a slight reliability edge in some guns according to some folks. Slide release is faster, but not much. I go for the reliability and consistency of the slingshot myself.
FWIW, I tend to slingshot "overhand" unless I'm teaching Israeli style, whihc needs the true slingshot technique to work well.

[JonInWA]

Yep. Slingshot is a universal response and works pretty much across the board and may give a slight reliability edge in some guns according to some folks. Slide release is faster, but not much. I go for the reliability and consistency of the slingshot myself.
FWIW, I tend to slingshot "overhand" unless I'm teaching Israeli style, whihc needs the true slingshot technique to work well.

Or work at all, since the last time I checked the "Israeli Technique" pertained to single-action pistols carried chamber empty with a fully-loaded magazine...

The "Israeli Technique" came about during the timeframe when the preponderant IDF personal defensive weapon was likely to be a single-action Beretta 951 or a FN/Browning Hi Power, or similar clones. I suspect that time, equipment, and prevailing handguns employed by the IDF have significantly marched on to more fruitful (and modern) fields...

In my opinion, if you're carrying a single-action handgun and not comfortable with cocked-and-locked (Condition 1), then you would probably be better served with another action type. It's not as if there aren't other credible choices out there...

I think that the "universality" of the overhand/slingshot is an overstated advantage. While true, I personally think that the likelihood of it needing to be employed due to having to use someone else's pistol that you're unfamiliar with is fairly slim. And, if so, said gun may well have other controls that are different as well, such as safety levers, magazine releases, et al. I would suggest that the various techniques/"tool in the toolbox" be noted/familiarized with, but that one concentrate on and preponderantly utilize the one(s) most applicable to one's usual PDW.

Another caveat is that for the overhand/slingshot to work, it must be properly executed-i.e., with no shooter continued residual holding of the slide after release. That's an issue that simply doesn't exist when merely utilizing the slide release...Just some food for thought.

For me, the best generalized applicability of the slingshot/overhand is in the shooting sports, when at the completion of a stage/sequence of fire, after "showing clear" and the SO/RO directs "slide forward" using such techniques-but WITH continued hand control, providing a graduated residual return of the slide to battery to the empty chamber can help preclude the jarring uncushioned force of the slide slamming forward onto the empty chamber from damaging hammer hook surfaces, action jobs, etc.

Best, Jon

[Andy T]

When I took my first class from Tom Givens back in '06 he taught us Slingshot (Overhand). I stuck with this until about '09. After taking LAV's class, I started using my support (left) hand thumb to push down the slide stop - all of this with Glocks. However, the overhand method was pretty well ingrained, and at times when I wanted to use slide stop, I found myself Slingshotting the slide instead.
At present, I decided to add a P229. The Sig's, however, have the slide stop at a location that's different from most other pistols (much further towards the back). And the support hand thumb ends up pulling down on the decock lever, as it's in the position that is similar to the slide release. As a result, I decided to go back to the slingshot method. While being slower, it will at least give me the same manual of arms between Glocks and Sigs. In my opinion, this is probably one of the few pluses - regardless of the make of pistol, the slingshot will work.

[Tamara]

My gunsmith told me to. Back then he said it would help when shooting max loads. He also said it would act as a buffer when the slide goes back . and something about metal to metal wasn't good.

They were super cheap back then under a buck or so for a little plastic ring.

After a couple days out shooting the tiny plastic buffer needed to be replaced.

So the gunsmith didn't know what he was talking about? Wouldn't surprise me.

I think that there are certain specific setups on which they might have some use but, IMO, on the typical 5" steel-framed .45ACP gun they're akin to sprinkling elephant repellant around the borders of an Indiana vegetable garden.

[Totem Polar]

While being slower, it will at least give me the same manual of arms between Glocks and Sigs. In my opinion, this is probably one of the few pluses - regardless of the make of pistol, the slingshot will work.
My previous concerns around terminology aside, this is why I choose overhand for myself as well. Others that shoot more--and own fewer platforms--are welcome to make a different decision. ;)

[jetfire]

I think that there are certain specific setups on which they might have some use but, IMO, on the typical 5" steel-framed .45ACP gun they're akin to sprinkling elephant repellant around the borders of an Indiana vegetable garden.

IIRC, the Bill Wilson 1911 book said he used them in bowling pin guns that were shooting super hot loads, but nothing much else.

[JSGlock34]

Wilson Shok-Buffs were on the parts list for the M45 'MEU (SOC)' 1911s (which were recently replaced by the new Colt M45A1 CQBP). Not sure what benefit the Marine Corps Precision Weapons Section saw to the Shok-Buff, but considering the potential for Shok-Buffs to come apart and induce a serious malfunction, I was surprised to see it used among some of the hardest used 1911s out there. On the other hand, I'm certain both Wilson and PWS know more about the benefits than I do. Be curious to hear thoughts from some of the forum 1911 experts on this topic.

[Tamara]

Be curious to hear thoughts from some of the forum 1911 experts on this topic.

Me too.

[BLR]

I think this might just be one the only topic that can give internal vs external extractor argument a run for it's money in the 1911 world.

[Tamara]

I think this might just be one the only topic that can give internal vs external extractor argument a run for it's money in the 1911 world.

My friend Shannon is a pretty fair 1911 mechanic and I learned of his opinion of Shok Buffs in an amusing way...

I'd just acquired a Clackamas-rollmarked OG Kimber and brought it to him to be looked over and maybe discuss some modifications. He was doing that thing he does, where he pretty much detail-strips the gun while talking to you and hardly looking at his hands while they're doing their thing. He got to the Shok Buff and, without missing a beat in conversation or looking at it or asking me or anything just tossed it in the trash can to his side. "Not a Shok Buff fan, then?" I asked, and all I got was a raised eyebrow.

But, yeah, I've seen a lot of broken guns broken in a lot of exotic ways, but if I ever checked in a 1911 that the frame had cracked from too much shooting, I don't remember it off the top of my head. (As a matter of fact, the one cracked frame on a 1911-pattern gun I do distinctly remember checking in was an Officer's Model that someone had had the alloy frame checkered. Cracked clean across the frontstrap in rather spectacular fashion...)

[JonInWA]

That says it all for me, Tam-and Bill Riehl's comment immediate above is right on target as well. The only pistol that I've every even remotely considered using a Shok Buff on was on my .40 Hi Powers-but I've never seen or heard of frame damage attributable where a Shok Buff would have prevented it (and, for that matter, I can't think of any .40 Hi Power's suffering frame damage that I've come across, either personally or anecdotally).

I'm pretty firmly convinced that periodic/preventative maintenance spring replacement is key, as opposed to application of Shok Buffs.

Considering what a relative pain in the butt .40 Hi Power slide reciprocation by hand with the stock FN 20 lb recoil spring is anyhow, I don't see application of a Shok Buff favorably helping...

Best, Jon