5.45x39mm ammo ban?

[LittleLebowski]

I blogged (http://goo.gl/LJDBXK) about it but basically, the BATFE found out about someone who manufactured a 5.45 pistol and banned the steel core ammo on the basis of that (details at blog post).

I don't have anything good to say about this non-logic. Just a backdoor to chipping away at the Second Amendment.

[JRB]

I've seen references to this all over the firearm blogosphere. Started on James Yeager's Facebook page of all places. In short, an importer's Form 6 got abnormally delayed on a shipment 5.45x39, that importer contacted the ATF and was told that a 5.45x39 pistol had been built, and that all imports of partial steel core 5.45x39 like 7N6 would be stopped.

On another place, (Barfcom of all places) a representative of Cope's Distributing conveyed what the ATF told him - a 5.45x39 pistol design had been submitted to the FTB to determine eligibility for importation, and thus the gate has dropped.

I hope all of those knuckle draggers feel stupid - you know, the ones that thought their homebrew '74 Krink pistol builds weren't going to endanger anything because 5.45x39 was supposedly .218" diameter on the dimension that mattered, and thus would be exempt from 921(c) by virtue of it being under .22 caliber.

15 cents shipped was nice while it lasted.

[TheTrevor]

Looks like it's time to buy enough to wear out my current barrel.

[LittleLebowski]

Looks like it's time to buy enough to wear out my current barrel.

You need to order right now. Not kidding.

[JRB]

You need to order right now. Not kidding.

Yep, it's already been cleaned out at many distributors.

[ffhounddog]

Glad I sold my 5.45 upper last October.

Too bad about the 5.45. I agree with LL that this is more than just about a pistol being submitted two years ago. If that was the case it would have been banned before now.

[TheTrevor]

Holy cow. Grabbed 2 last cans, figure worst-case scenario I can sell one at a profit later this year to buy a 5.56 barrel and bolt.

I almost bought a 2-pack for $350 shipped earlier this week. Just got jacked for $490 for same from Sportsman's because I could make the buy quickly using my iphone.

[Chuck Haggard]

This sort of BS is how steel core 7.62x39 got banned. You can thank Oly Arms for that Blue Falcon moment in the gun world.

[TGS]

Damn, that sucks!

One of my buddies just got a 5.45 upper a few months ago. Fortunately he has 6480 rounds of it, and another crate or two on hold from his LGS that he does all his business with.

[Drang]

This sort of BS is how steel core 7.62x39 got banned. You can thank Oly Arms for that Blue Falcon moment in the gun world.
John Ross notwithstanding, the Army already had the M231 Firing Port Weapon, it was just a matter of time before someone marketed an AR15-based pistol.

[TheTrevor]

This sort of BS is how steel core 7.62x39 got banned. You can thank Oly Arms for that Blue Falcon moment in the gun world.

The names of the guilty will surface sooner or later. Hopefully the gun-buying population will show their vindictive side. Bankruptcy would be a fair outcome, IMHO, for the economic damage they inflicted with their BF move.

I can't get too worked up, though -- sooner or later I will run out of 5.45, and it will not be economical to buy more. At that point, it'll take me less than an hour total to swap in a new 5.56 barrel and bolt, adjust the gas system, and re-zero the scope. The AR is truly the grown-man Lego set. (Or Barbie doll judging by how much fun some folks have dressing theirs up. Anyway.)

You know who's really going to be steamed? All of the AK74-variant owners. I'm reasonably sure there's no practical way to switch those over to 7.62x39, and I'd be surprised if the US market for 5.45x39 is big enough to start sending us new-production copper/lead 5.45 ammo anytime soon.

[Stephen]

I was about to say save your hate for BATFE, not some dumbass mfg. Then I saw this:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/545_zpsa30f9225.jpeg

[TheTrevor]

I was about to say save your hate for BATFE, not some dumbass mfg. Then I saw this:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/545_zpsa30f9225.jpeg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/tynytety.jpg

ETA: JBI Armory felt compelled to post an all-caps message to their FB page warning that all threats would be reported to the authorities. Seems that word has spread quickly of their misdeed. It'll be interesting to see if BATFE's cause for action really is JBI Armory manufacturing a 5.45x39 AR pistol then breaking Fight Club rules.

https://www.facebook.com/jbi.armory

[David Armstrong]

This sort of BS is how steel core 7.62x39 got banned. You can thank Oly Arms for that Blue Falcon moment in the gun world.
Yep. You'd think folks would learn, but they don't.:mad:

[TR675]

I was about to say save your hate for BATFE, not some dumbass mfg. Then I saw this:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/ZEROTHOMAS/545_zpsa30f9225.jpeg

Ah, they're local. So proud.

[JRB]

John Ross notwithstanding, the Army already had the M231 Firing Port Weapon, it was just a matter of time before someone marketed an AR15-based pistol.

The real early AR15 pistols had more in common with the old Colt 607's and early XM177's than they did with an open bolt M231. All of that is fine really because M855 was thoughtfully exempted from the ATF's list of AP ammo as to not make an instant felon out of every random E2 that went home with a loose round of green tip in his pocket.

Whatever magnificent anti-genius thought of the idea to build an AR pistol in 7.62x39 was the real culprit there - just like the recent anti-genius that apparently built an AK pistol in 5.45 for a market niche they killed as soon as they made that pistol. It'd be entertainingly ironic on an O. Henry level if it wasn't so kittening infuriating.

[NEPAKevin]

1994 Steel Core Importation Ban (http://www.thegunzone.com/762x39.html)

[TGS]

The names of the guilty will surface sooner or later. Hopefully the gun-buying population will show their vindictive side. Bankruptcy would be a fair outcome, IMHO, for the economic damage they inflicted with their BF move.

I can't get too worked up, though -- sooner or later I will run out of 5.45, and it will not be economical to buy more. At that point, it'll take me less than an hour total to swap in a new 5.56 barrel and bolt, adjust the gas system, and re-zero the scope. The AR is truly the grown-man Lego set. (Or Barbie doll judging by how much fun some folks have dressing theirs up. Anyway.)

You know who's really going to be steamed? All of the AK74-variant owners. I'm reasonably sure there's no practical way to switch those over to 7.62x39, and I'd be surprised if the US market for 5.45x39 is big enough to start sending us new-production copper/lead 5.45 ammo anytime soon.

You know only 7n6 is banned, right? All the regular imported fodder from Wolf, Brown/Silver Bear, MFS, ect is still legal.

Sure, we can expect the prices to jump and availability to suffer for a little bit, but I don't see any reason that 5.45 would become extinct.

[TheTrevor]

You know only 7n6 is banned, right? All the regular imported fodder from Wolf, Brown/Silver Bear, MFS, ect is still legal.

Sure, we can expect the prices to jump and availability to suffer for a little bit, but I don't see any reason that 5.45 would become extinct.

How does that work? Last time I checked, Wolf/Bear/etc ammo was also made using projectiles with a mild steel jacket, just like 7N6.

[TGS]

How does that work? Last time I checked, Wolf/Bear/etc ammo was also made using projectiles with a mild steel jacket, just like 7N6.

Steel core is what is considered AP, not mild steel jackets. So, all the rest should be safe.

[TheTrevor]

Steel core is what is considered AP, not mild steel jackets. So, all the rest should be safe.

Good to know. Looks like time to stash my remaining spam-cans of 7N6 and pick up some of the slightly-more-expensive-but-still-cheaper-than-5.56 stuff. :)

[Chuck Haggard]

History lesson since Santayana was a smart dude;

http://www.thegunzone.com/762x39.html

[5pins]

Considering what’s going on in the Ukraine I’m surprised all Russian ammo has not been banned from import.

[TGS]

Considering what’s going on in the Ukraine I’m surprised all Russian ammo has not been banned from import.

Anyone have any idea what the Russian ammo import business is valued at per year?

[justintime]

what is the significance behind the pistol build creating a ban? -confused-

[Chuck Haggard]

what is the significance behind the pistol build creating a ban? -confused-

Ammo for pistols can not be steel core. 5.45 was a rifle round, right up until some retard built a pistol for it.

Same-same happened to the cheap Chinese steel core import stuff. I recall the day the $69 a case Norinco dried up forever.

[justintime]

Ahh I was not aware of that legality.

[NEPAKevin]

18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(17)(B)

(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

or for less accuracy and more hype:

http://youtu.be/-c1mzkAtHPI
The 90s were almost as strange as the 80s but with more subdued fashion choices.

[Kyle Reese]

18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(17)(B)

(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

or for less accuracy and more hype:

http://youtu.be/-c1mzkAtHPI
The 90s were almost as strange as the 80s but with more subdued fashion choices.

Don't forget mercury switches, Diplomatic Immunity and "cop killer" bullets.

[TR675]

Don't forget mercury switches, Diplomatic Immunity and "cop killer" bullets.

Do not tell me that mercury switches are not a real thing. Do not do that.

[GardoneVT]

Do not tell me that mercury switches are not a real thing. Do not do that.

I'm still working on the fifty yard "Smile Drill" .Maybe I need to eat more dog biscuits?

[Chuck Haggard]

Do not tell me that mercury switches are not a real thing. Do not do that.


Oh, they are very, very real.

[TR675]

Oh, they are very, very real.

Thank goodness. I did look up mercury switches - helloooo, government watchlist - and now I feel 100% justified in relying on everything I ever learned from '80's action movies.

Next thing you know someone will try to convince me that our commandos don't really use miniguns as SAWs.

[Kyle Reese]

Next thing you know someone will try to convince me that our commandos don't really use miniguns as SAWs.

The CIA had Dylan pushing too many pencils. :(

[TR675]

When he should have been training how to gid to da choppa.

[Mr_White]

Some people ain't got time to bleed.

[NickA]

Some people ain't got time to bleed.

Nope, too busy being a g**d*** sexual tyrannosaurus :p

[LHS]

Nope, too busy being a g**d*** sexual tyrannosaurus :p

Just like me.

[TR675]

Just like me.

Yeah, well, strap this on your sore @ss.

2238

[LittleLebowski]

It's official. (http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2014/04/040714-special-advisory-test-examination-and-classification-7n6-545x39-ammunition.html)

[JV_]

I've never heard of the "Fabryka Bronie Radom, Model Onyks 89S". What is it?

[LittleLebowski]

I've never heard of the "Fabryka Bronie Radom, Model Onyks 89S". What is it?

Looks like an AK pistol http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1611615

[TheTrevor]

This is why we can't have nice things. The rules were clear, with precedent in ATF action. But nooooo, some jackhole just *had* to import a 5.45 pistol. Awesome.

[ranger]

So is my 7N6 now collectible or more valuable?

[LHS]

Well, prices are going up due to demand and the lack of resupply, but who knows what the value will be over the long term.

[ranger]

Just noticed on the Palmetto State Armory page that they now have surplus 5.45x39 for $499.99 per 2160 rounds (two tins).

[littlejerry]

Ugh.

Looks like I better stock up on 54r.

Idiots.

[LHS]

Just noticed on the Palmetto State Armory page that they now have surplus 5.45x39 for $499.99 per 2160 rounds (two tins).

Dan's Ammo still has some for $409 per crate (two tins).