J frame in 22lr / 22m

[Rich]

Why are the 22lr and 22magnum J frames priced so high compared to the ole 642/442.

[Rich]

any one have any experience with the 22lr/22mag J frames.

I'm interested in the ones that appear to look like the 642/442/640 etc!

Are they accurate at 7y and what size group?

[Joe in PNG]

I believe there's a couple of reasons:
-revolvers cost pretty much the same to make for .22lr or .38spc (unless pot metal is involved)
-Volume!! S&W has more market for .38's, so they make more, and thus they cost less.

[GJM]

I like the 317 model with a 3.something barrel and adjustable sights. Shoots great, and has good enough/adjustable sights, that you can shoot it like a larger S&W revolver.

[Lomshek]

I like the 317 model with a 3.something barrel and adjustable sights. Shoots great, and has good enough/adjustable sights, that you can shoot it like a larger S&W revolver.

I have one as well (317, 3" barrel, FO front sight (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765497_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)) that I used to train my kids when they were young. The tiny grip is great for little hands. From the factory the DA trigger was ridiculously over weight and the SA trigger was nice (4 or 5 pounds). After some polishing of the internals and a 13 pound mainspring the DA is 9 or 10 pounds and the SA is 2'ish. I'm going to put a 14lb mainspring for better ignition but other than that it's great.

Rich, It's been a long time since I shot it for groups but the gun is phenomenally accurate with the tiny grip being the main impediment to tighter groups. At 7 yards I'd expect 1" or better 8 round groups fired SA. The rear sight is an adjustable express style "V" which takes some getting used to but is very useable. An adult male would want larger grips but the small grips are fine for kids and smaller ladies.

[Tamara]

I believe there's a couple of reasons:
-revolvers cost pretty much the same to make for .22lr or .38spc (unless pot metal is involved)
-Volume!! S&W has more market for .38's, so they make more, and thus they cost less.

This. There's no reason a .22 revolver would be cheaper than a .38 if the only difference is the size of the hole in the barrel.

[Wheeler]

This. There's no reason a .22 revolver would be cheaper than a .38 if the only difference is the size of the hole in the barrel.

I've had it on good authority on the interwebz that bigger calibers cost more. :-)

[jc000]

OP – have you looked into the Ruger LCR .22 revolver? If you're willing to look beyond S&W the Ruger appears to be an affordable and reliable option. Mine has been great, biggest weakness appears to be accuracy beyond 7 yards but I would attribute that easily to GIGO.

[Chuck Haggard]

I have run our KS C-POST qual with both my 317 2" and my .22lr LCR, maxed the qual with both, didn't notice one being more accurate than the other.

[Rich]

OP – have you looked into the Ruger LCR .22 revolver? If you're willing to look beyond S&W the Ruger appears to be an affordable and reliable option. Mine has been great, biggest weakness appears to be accuracy beyond 7 yards but I would attribute that easily to GIGO.

S&WJKL is my #1 favorite revolvers. But I also had excellent luck with ruger revolvers. GP100 3&6 inch

What do the LCR go for in 22.


You have to accuse me I don't recall what GIGO stand for?


Accuracy is a huge concern with me. And would want clover groups at 7y using quality 22ammo.



Im not interested in along barrel 22.

1 7/8 to 2inches is fine with me.

I will go and recheck S&W to see model # I was wanting.


M43C 11oz 8 shot 22lr or M351C 22 mag if it gives a lot more penetration using solids.

[TORCH2J]

GIGO is usually Garbage In, Garbage Out.

[Rich]

Thank you!

[jc000]

Yes, that's it. I wouldn't put a lot of weight in my perceived lack if accuracy, but it seems to drop off rather sharply for me.

[TCinVA]

any one have any experience with the 22lr/22mag J frames.

I'm interested in the ones that appear to look like the 642/442/640 etc!

Are they accurate at 7y and what size group?

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3840-Which-DA-22

I have a S&W 317...not quite the centenial hammerless model, but a .22 LR J frame.

Accurate at 7 yards? Certainly. Accurate well beyond 7 yards if you can handle the trigger and the sights properly. They are not easy to shoot with precision, though. If I had it to do over I would have bought one of the guns with a longer barrel.

I did eventually get myself a model 34 Kit gun, and I like it. It's not as easy to shoot with precision as a Ruger MK II, and in my experience the ammo seems to make a huge difference in accuracy.

They also need to be cleaned more than you might imagine or the cylinder starts to bind.

[SWAT Lt.]

I have a 43C and absolutely love it. It is loads of fun to shoot and surprisingly accurate. I would like to have a 351C, although the trigger pull is a bit heavier, and hope to stumble across one someday. I saw a 43C on a LGS shelf the other day ($689) and it was the first one I have seen in over a year and a half.

[Chuck Haggard]

I so need a brace of 43Cs

[LSP972]

I would like one myself. But I cannot recall the last time I saw one for sale.

.

[Chuck Haggard]

I would like one myself. But I cannot recall the last time I saw one for sale.

.

Ditto

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I had a 317 LS and could not stand the DA trigger and ditched it. Since I wanted a 22 LR just for fun, I got a good deal on a Ruger SS Bearcat (cowboy looks were appealing) and a Buckmark for plinking and casual steel usage.

As far as cleaning - I had a 651 and the unburned powder of the 22 Mags of its day would glue it shut in no time at all. It spewed unburnt powder like a cloud on a target 7 yards away. So I sold it ( bad move as now they have appreciated).

For fun J frame - I have a 632 SS comped gun in 327. Just because - it is so easy to shoot in 32 SW long. I did an IDPA match as an outlaw with it for grins. A steel popper actually swayed back and forth for a couple of seconds before deciding to fall. It was a hoot to watch. With actual 327 rounds, I wouldn't laugh at it. But it is a fun gun.

I also picked up a 432 for cheap when they were discontinued. Very light for the proverbial pocket gun when going to get the mail and no zombies in sight.

[Rich]

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3840-Which-DA-22

I have a S&W 317...not quite the centenial hammerless model, but a .22 LR J frame.

Accurate at 7 yards? Certainly. Accurate well beyond 7 yards if you can handle the trigger and the sights properly. They are not easy to shoot with precision, though. If I had it to do over I would have bought one of the guns with a longer barrel.

I did eventually get myself a model 34 Kit gun, and I like it. It's not as easy to shoot with precision as a Ruger MK II, and in my experience the ammo seems to make a huge difference in accuracy.

They also need to be cleaned more than you might imagine or the cylinder starts to bind.

Why is the M317 trigger so different from the other 38spl/357 J frames. If I remember right the M317 feels totally different. maybe its the aluminum cylinder?

[Rich]

I would like one myself. But I cannot recall the last time I saw one for sale.

.

I haven't seen one yet? Or Ever.

still don't get why they are so expensive?

[Rich]

I have a 43C and absolutely love it. It is loads of fun to shoot and surprisingly accurate. I would like to have a 351C, although the trigger pull is a bit heavier, and hope to stumble across one someday. I saw a 43C on a LGS shelf the other day ($689) and it was the first one I have seen in over a year and a half.

Must be hard to find. I never seen one myself. Good to know they are accurate.

But all my 357/38 J,K,L frames have been excellent so far.

[SWAT Lt.]

Why is the M317 trigger so different from the other 38spl/357 J frames. If I remember right the M317 feels totally different. maybe its the aluminum cylinder?

One of the main reasons is the 317, 650, and 651 (and likely the 351C, etc.) use a 12 pound mainspring. The center fire J frames (and the 43C I believe) use a 8.5lb mainspring.

[Lomshek]

One of the main reasons is the 317, 650, and 651 (and likely the 351C, etc.) use a 12 pound mainspring. The center fire J frames (and the 43C I believe) use a 8.5lb mainspring.

The express style rear sight with a big round green fiber optic doesn't do it any favors. SA is very nice and the factory DA sucks (16-18 lbs).

Polish the guts and find the weakest hammer spring that will ignite the primers and it becomes much easier to shoot accurately.

[SJC3081]

I bought a 43c from GJM last year, great pistol great shooter and dead on at 10 yards.

[Rich]

I bought a 43c from GJM last year, great pistol great shooter and dead on at 10 yards.

I bet GJM must of own or have own every side arm there is.

[JAD]

I bet GJM must of own or have own every side arm there is.

...and every one better than the last.

[SWAT Lt.]

Well, guess who ran across a 351C? I took it to the range today and put 200 rounds through it. I like the 351C almost as much as my 43C and both shoot surprisingly well for small, lightweight revolvers with such a short sight radius. I had been buying 22 Mag ammo when I would stumble across it in hopes of finding a 351C. I'm glad I did as none is available now. I have 100 rounds left and am on the hunt for more. It will likely see little use due to ammo availability and cost, but it is a neat little gun that is fun to shoot. The 43C will continue to get shot quite a bit, I have plenty of ammo for it and it serves as a DA trigger trainer for my no lock 340 M&P.

[Chuck Haggard]

I bet GJM must of own or have own every side arm there is.

I bought his 351c, wish I had also been able to pick up the 43c

[SeriousStudent]

The 43C is definitely my next pistol to buy or trade for.

I wish someone with some pull at S&W would drop a subtle hint. But I am guessing the market is smaller than they wish.

[Chuck Haggard]

When I had to pick a J frame to replace a couldn't be fixed 342 and S&W gave me the pick of anything I wanted, I should have picked the 43c

[TCinVA]

Why is the M317 trigger so different from the other 38spl/357 J frames. If I remember right the M317 feels totally different. maybe its the aluminum cylinder?

Just seeing this now...forgive the delay.

That's a good question. The mainspring used might have something to do with it, as it might require a stiffer spring under the hammer to get reliable ignition from the rimfire cartridges. The light aluminum cylinder probably does contribute to a different trigger feel as well.

[Al T.]

I'm glad I did as none is available now.

Spotted three boxes inn the local Wal-Mart for 11.99 per box. It's out there.

[LSP972]

I bought his 351c

How bad is the muzzle blast/flash on that little beast?

I ask because I was issued a High Standard derringer in the academy, and we used to say you didn't have to hit your assailant with it at close range, because you'd either knock him unconscious or set him on fire. No kidding, when we fired them on stapled paper at four yards, the first shot literally shredded the paper B-27.

Anyway, in the hope of running across one or the other (I'd prefer the .22LR version), I'm wondering if I should even consider the magnum example...

.

[Chuck Haggard]

I've been playing with the idea of going rimfire on my BUGs, for weight of the guns and for recoil reduction. If I had two 43c's, or even a 43c to go with my 317, I might have gone all Claude Werner and just went that route.
I got a hell of a deal on a 351c so I thought "WTK, might as well give it a try" and bought the gun, also lucked into natchez having .22mag Gold Dot in stock so I bought ten boxes.
I shot the KS C-POST qual with it without any warm up or test fire and maxed the qual shooting weak handed even though the trigger pull is like 25lbs and it had the boot grips on it, which I hate. Accurate little beast. It was high noon then so I couldn't tell you about flash, but noise was easily somewhere above .38 +p to my ears through the Sordins. Didn't tear up the target at 3 yards, but I could see stippling on the paper. Would likely put a hostage's eye out if I tried a close range shot on a hostage taker, but might be a bonus feature if I have to face shoot a close range bad guy.

Claude tells me that world famous firearms instructor that he knows is carry a 351pd as a BUG and has successfully installed an Apex kit, which ain't supposed to work on the rimfires but has been fine for him. I may risk trying that myself.

Doc Gary says he would be OK with a .22mag for a BUG, I'd like to get his thoughts on ammo selection/.22mag performance.

Now to try and find another 351pd or 351c, or 43c.............

[okie john]

The express style rear sight with a big round green fiber optic doesn't do it any favors.

This. With plain black sights, the J-frame .22s are tack drivers. My favorite is the M-35, which is a M-34 with a 6" barrel.


Okie John

[Wheeler]

I've been playing with the idea of going rimfire on my BUGs, for weight of the guns and for recoil reduction. If I had two 43c's, or even a 43c to go with my 317, I might have gone all Claude Werner and just went that route.
I got a hell of a deal on a 351c so I thought "WTK, might as well give it a try" and bought the gun, also lucked into natchez having .22mag Gold Dot in stock so I bought ten boxes.
I shot the KS C-POST qual with it without any warm up or test fire and maxed the qual shooting weak handed even though the trigger pull is like 25lbs and it had the boot grips on it, which I hate. Accurate little beast. It was high noon then so I couldn't tell you about flash, but noise was easily somewhere above .38 +p to my ears through the Sordins. Didn't tear up the target at 3 yards, but I could see stippling on the paper. Would likely put a hostage's eye out if I tried a close range shot on a hostage taker, but might be a bonus feature if I have to face shoot a close range bad guy.

Claude tells me that world famous firearms instructor that he knows is carry a 351pd as a BUG and has successfully installed an Apex kit, which ain't supposed to work on the rimfires but has been fine for him. I may risk trying that myself.

Doc Gary says he would be OK with a .22mag for a BUG, I'd like to get his thoughts on ammo selection/.22mag performance.

Now to try and find another 351pd or 351c, or 43c.............

Two things. #1. Going all Claude Werner ain't for the faint of heart. ;-)
#2. The aforementioned world famous firearms instructor went through three, if I recall correctly 351's before he found
one he was satisfied with. The others had extraction issues if I recall correctly.