10mm gel tests: Buffalo Bore 155 gr TAC-XP & 195 gr Mihec cast shallow hollow point

[Andrew Wiggin]

Barnes video link (http://youtu.be/Z3ka8mvH_xE)


http://youtu.be/Z3ka8mvH_xE



10mm Buffalo Bore 155 gr TAC XP fired from 4.5" barrel EAA Witness through four layers of denim into calibrated gelatin.

BB: 600.5 fps, 3.5"

Impact velocity: 1,376 fps
Penetration: ~14"
Retained weight: 154.4 gr
Max expansion: 0.696"
Min expansion: 0.514"

If you look closely, you'll see a bee land on the denim just before the shot and you can see the bullet exit the top of the second block and roll back toward the chronograph. That's why the penetration figure is approximate. I saw the bullet drop to the ground when I shot but I thought it had bounced off the second block until I reviewed the video.



Mihec cast bullet video link (http://youtu.be/IWK551Nd9og)

10mm 195 gr Mihec (shallow pin) 20:1 lead/tin loaded over 9.6gr Blue Dot fired from 4.25" barrel S&W 1076 through four layers of denim into calibrated gelatin.

BB: 600.5 fps, 3.5"

Impact velocity: 1,026 fps
Penetration: 23.1"
Retained weight: 196.0 gr
Max expansion: 0.423"
Min expansion: 0.407"

[Andrew Wiggin]

http://youtu.be/Z3ka8mvH_xE

[Rich]

Do you use the 10mm for EDC?

[Andrew Wiggin]

No, my EDC is a G23. The 10mm is my woods gun. Nothing wrong with the cartridge for regular carry, I just prefer the size of the G23.

[GJM]

My completely speculative opinion, based on nothing more than my sense that .40 has benefitted from much more LE load development, is that a 10mm with JHP loads does nothing better than a .40, and is possibly worse than JHP in a .40. Would this test support or refute this?

[Andrew Wiggin]

I suspect you're right but my informal tests aren't at all conclusive. Based on those tests, though, it seems that 10mm velocity exceeds the design limits of many projectiles. On the other hand, it seems to make up for poor design in some cases. From a purely pragmatic view, and if my own tests are taken as relatively accurate, 10mm seems to meet minimum penetration requirements with good expansion using almost any 180 gr + JHP. In other words, it seems to be at least adequate with a wide range of bullets.

That's not really it's strength, in my opinion. 10mm's biggest strength is its versatility. It can be at least adequate as a personal defense cartridge but it can also work well for hunting or large animal defense. EAA Witness and Glock pistols hold 14+ rounds of ammunition that is consistent with .357 mag energy.

[GJM]

Agreed, and I bought a bunch if Underwood 200 FMJ loads to check reliability in my Gen 4 29. So far, it is running, but I have more testing to do.

[Rich]

Agreed, and I bought a bunch if Underwood 200 FMJ loads to check reliability in my Gen 4 29. So far, it is running, but I have more testing to do.

Nothing wrong with using a 10mm with the threat of brown or white bears!

However I would still use the 40S&W w/ hard cast lead or TMJ FN. They have lots of penetration while having less recoil than the full power 10mmm loads.
If I saw a Brown Bear coming at me I would try to dump the full mag in him! Hopefully the lesser recoil will help.


Thank God I only have to worry about Black Bears ,Panthers, Hogs, Gators , Crocks ,and all the nasty snakes.
I have shot sharks!1 Hammer head , 2 black tips, 1 lemon. I shot them before boating

[GJM]

The problem is that the hard cast I tried in my G22 didn't feed reliably, and there us a dearth of good FMJ .40 loads. The 10 has a much wider selection of FMJ/penetrator type loads.

[Andrew Wiggin]

The 10mm should also push a solid deeper than the .40 S&W. In my neck of the woods, the biggest critters are relatively small black bears so I'm more interested in a load that will offer a little expansion (for humans, mountain lions, etc.) while still penetrating 20" or more. So far, the 200 gr XTP is close and the 195 gr Mihec in this test is close too.

[Rich]

The 10 has a much wider selection of FMJ/penetrator type loads.

Why is that ? Do you mean bullets heavier than the 200gr.

My P228 like the 200gr XTP HP. But I haven't gone any heavier than that.


BTW I love shooting lead. Some of my best groups in my life was shot with lead bullets. 38/357,9mm,45ACP

I loaded up some SWC for my Sig P229 and they wouldn't feed at all. Ever since then I gave up on using lead in my P29 40cal

[Rich]

The 10mm should also push a solid deeper than the .40 S&W. In my neck of the woods, the biggest critters are relatively small black bears so I'm more interested in a load that will offer a little expansion (for humans, mountain lions, etc.) while still penetrating 20" or more. So far, the 200 gr XTP is close and the 195 gr Mihec in this test is close too.

I notice I bare gel testing the slower bullet penetrates further
like 124gr vs 124+P and so on.

Faster can cause less penetration!

Now I haven't seen any solid or ball testing.

10MM penetrates further but I bet its not buy much, and with extra recoil making second shot slower on fast charging bear.

What is the min of penetration needed for brown/white bear ? 24inches??

BTW I wonder??
Since the 9mm is smaller in Dia .355 I bet the hard cast and FMJ will penetrate just as much as the 40S&W and 10MM




.

[Andrew Wiggin]

Jacketed hollow point bullets sometimes penetrate less at higher velocity. I presume that is because they open wider and earlier, therefore slowing more quickly. Solids penetrate more deeply the faster they go. 10mm can push heavier bullets faster than .40 S&W and therefore can produce deeper penetration. I don't know exactly how much deeper but I think an extra 20% velocity within a given weight is significant.

Maybe Doc can give us an idea of how much velocity or bullet weight influences penetration.

[Rich]

Jacketed hollow point bullets sometimes penetrate less at higher velocity. I presume that is because they open wider and earlier, therefore slowing more quickly. Solids penetrate more deeply the faster they go. 10mm can push heavier bullets faster than .40 S&W and therefore can produce deeper penetration. I don't know exactly how much deeper but I think an extra 20% velocity within a given weight is significant.

Maybe Doc can give us an idea of how much velocity or bullet weight influences penetration.

Does the 10mm penetrate more than the 9mm when using non expanding bullets. I would think the Dia(.355 vs .400) would play a role?

love to hear from the Doc concerning max pentetration using non expanding bullets / ball /hard lead. 9mm vs 40/10mm

[Chuck Haggard]

Many times the 9mm FMJ RN loads, such as the standard NATO ball ammo, with yaw a 180 and end up base forward. The yaw reduces total penetration quite a bit.

[Andrew Wiggin]

Does the 10mm penetrate more than the 9mm when using non expanding bullets. I would think the Dia(.355 vs .400) would play a role?

love to hear from the Doc concerning max pentetration using non expanding bullets / ball /hard lead. 9mm vs 40/10mm

The higher sectional density for a similar weight bullet would theoretically lend greater penetration but the 10mm can launch bullets much heavier and at faster speeds. It's also worth noting that penetration is only part of the story. A wide, flat meplat that cuts a larger wound channel is also a desirable trait for a hunting or animal defense bullet.