The Passion of the Gun

[ToddG]

From another thread:


Also, and I think this is important in a personal weapon: I don't feel passionate about firing a Glock anymore.

You know, three years ago when pistol-forum.com started, I would have made fun of M_S for saying that. Shooting, especially defense-oriented shooting, should be about objective collectible performance data. Whether or not you're smilin' on the inside shouldn't be a consideration. Grow up! This isn't about fun and feelings, it's about being the best you can be, hippie!

Except...

I've shot a lot of different guns over the past seven years. And some were just plain more motivating than others. I probably shot the 1911 the worst by some measures but I loved going to the range and working hard at improving with it. There were times during other tests that I'd go weeks without doing any substantial shooting because I felt burned out or simply disinterested. Shooting felt so much like work that even if I was doing well (like my last trip to Rogers) I also felt exhausted by the effort.

My recent re-introduction to SIG has again revitalized a passion I'd forgotten for TDA guns. Will I ever get back to Rogers and beat my previous best but with a SIG? Maybe not. But are two points at Rogers (best I did with a SIG, P220ST, was 121 in '03 I think compared to 123 with G17 in '12) more important than enjoying the hundreds of hours I spend practicing per year? Not to me. And it blows my mind to see myself type that.

GJM is another great example. If you haven't noticed I think he started a thread about liking CZ pistols. And the CZ may in fact be the perfect meld for him. But I don't think anyone can read his posts and fail to see that his passion for that gun is leading to more practice, more focus, and more enthusiasm that all translates, in the end, into a better chance to claw performance out of whatever you shoot.

[JV_]

It's easy for me to feel burned out and skip range sessions for up to 2 months when I lose my interest. The sign it's coming is my attitude changes about shooting matches. I love shooting matches, but when it goes south - I know it's time.

I seem to circle back at Glock and start over, but I need those diversions to help me appreciate the differences, further refine my list of what needs improvement, and keep my eyes open for the next best gun.

Shooting is part hobby for me, hobbies should be fun.

[BLR]

From another thread:



You know, three years ago when pistol-forum.com started, I would have made fun of M_S for saying that. Shooting, especially defense-oriented shooting, should be about objective collectible performance data. Whether or not you're smilin' on the inside shouldn't be a consideration. Grow up! This isn't about fun and feelings, it's about being the best you can be, hippie!

Except...

I've shot a lot of different guns over the past seven years. And some were just plain more motivating than others. I probably shot the 1911 the worst by some measures but I loved going to the range and working hard at improving with it. There were times during other tests that I'd go weeks without doing any substantial shooting because I felt burned out or simply disinterested. Shooting felt so much like work that even if I was doing well (like my last trip to Rogers) I also felt exhausted by the effort.

My recent re-introduction to SIG has again revitalized a passion I'd forgotten for TDA guns. Will I ever get back to Rogers and beat my previous best but with a SIG? Maybe not. But are two points at Rogers (best I did with a SIG, P220ST, was 121 in '03 I think compared to 123 with G17 in '12) more important than enjoying the hundreds of hours I spend practicing per year? Not to me. And it blows my mind to see myself type that.

GJM is another great example. If you haven't noticed I think he started a thread about liking CZ pistols. And the CZ may in fact be the perfect meld for him. But I don't think anyone can read his posts and fail to see that his passion for that gun is leading to more practice, more focus, and more enthusiasm that all translates, in the end, into a better chance to claw performance out of whatever you shoot.

I agree 100%.

[Bill Wilson]

This thread is the perfect place for me to do my first post on the forum.........

Now that I no longer shoot competitively in matches, I shoot primarily for two reasons: #1 to keep my proficiency up in case I ever need to deploy the pistol that's always on my hip. #2 Because I enjoy shooting and it's still plain ole FUN for me after all these years and millions of rounds downrange.

That being said I just don't enjoy guns that in my good buddy Ken Hackathorn's words "come out of the box with no pride of ownership". For me most polymer frame guns fit this category (P30 might be an exception), even though I personally shoot the PX4, M&P, P30 and FNS very well compared to others I shoot much more often. I just don't do Glocks due to the grip angle.

So when I go shooting (which I normally do 2-3 times a week) I want to shoot guns I enjoy and have pride in owning, like 1911s, Beretta 92s and various revolvers. At over 60 now both Ken and I have pretty much decided that shooting a lot of .45 like we used to just isn't as much fun as it was when we had fewer aches and pains! That coupled with what a 9mm will do down range with modern bullets/propellants has us both primarily shooting 9mm these days.

Not to say I don't shoot a wide variety of pistol models, I do because I want to be proficient with virtually any handgun I pick up. But when it comes to enjoyment, it's just a lot more fun to shoot guns you are very proud to own. These days guns that fit that category for me and what I shoot the most are:

WC 1911 Ultralight Carry spec Compact 9mm built on a steel frame
WC 1911 Ultralight Carry full size 9mm, aluminum frame
Beretta 92G SD or 92G Brigadier

I have a bunch of polymer pistols that are great "tools" and I have great confidence in the PX4 compact I often carry and personally shoot it very well, but as Ken O says "it comes out of the box with no pride of ownership" !

[ToddG]

Holy kitten.
2193

[Magic_Salad0892]

It makes me very happy to see that my post had something to do with sparking a discussion about passion in shooting a handgun. Thanks for that, Todd.

Passion, and fun had a lot to do with why I went from a Glock to a 1911 every day. I shoot better now, and I know more about myself as a shooter.

I never have to go to the range. I get to go to the range.

[Josh Runkle]

Holy kitten.
2193

Wow! Looking forward to reading some good info!

[Tamara]

Fascinating (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11394-Completely-unscientific-quick-pure-shoot-ability-test-this-afternoon&p=202230&viewfull=1#post202230)! ;)

[Magic_Salad0892]

This thread is the perfect place for me to do my first post on the forum.........

Now that I no longer shoot competitively in matches, I shoot primarily for two reasons: #1 to keep my proficiency up in case I ever need to deploy the pistol that's always on my hip. #2 Because I enjoy shooting and it's still plain ole FUN for me after all these years and millions of rounds downrange.

That being said I just don't enjoy guns that in my good buddy Ken Hackathorn's words "come out of the box with no pride of ownership". For me most polymer frame guns fit this category (P30 might be an exception), even though I personally shoot the PX4, M&P, P30 and FNS very well compared to others I shoot much more often. I just don't do Glocks due to the grip angle.

So when I go shooting (which I normally do 2-3 times a week) I want to shoot guns I enjoy and have pride in owning, like 1911s, Beretta 92s and various revolvers. At over 60 now both Ken and I have pretty much decided that shooting a lot of .45 like we used to just isn't as much fun as it was when we had fewer aches and pains! That coupled with what a 9mm will do down range with modern bullets/propellants has us both primarily shooting 9mm these days.

Not to say I don't shoot a wide variety of pistol models, I do because I want to be proficient with virtually any handgun I pick up. But when it comes to enjoyment, it's just a lot more fun to shoot guns you are very proud to own. These days guns that fit that category for me and what I shoot the most are:

WC 1911 Ultralight Carry spec Compact 9mm built on a steel frame
WC 1911 Ultralight Carry full size 9mm, aluminum frame
Beretta 92G SD or 92G Brigadier

I have a bunch of polymer pistols that are great "tools" and I have great confidence in the PX4 compact I often carry and personally shoot it very well, but as Ken O says "it comes out of the box with no pride of ownership" !

Welcome to the board, Mr. Wilson!

[ASH556]

Wow, I hesitate to even post in this thread. So many big names rolling around. It would be like walking into church and seeing the Pope up front...just slowly back out.
Anyway, for what it's worth, I agree that passion can and does drive better performance with a given pistol. I think confidence is an element of passion. It's hard to be passionate about something you don't have any confidence in. For me, shooting my M&P's had become 100% deflating because I had no more confidence in them after the ongoing accuracy issues and hassles with Smith. Now that I'm shooting Glocks again, I'm all excited about it, which will probably fuel better performance. Heck, I even called up a local range to see when their next GSSF match was...just fun to be confident in a weapon again.

[EMC]

The human condition. It can't all be data driven all the time can it?

[justintime]

Is it weird that I feel this way about modified glocks -crickets-

[Magic_Salad0892]

Wow, I hesitate to even post in this thread. So many big names rolling around. It would be like walking into church and seeing the Pope up front...just slowly back out.
Anyway, for what it's worth, I agree that passion can and does drive better performance with a given pistol. I think confidence is an element of passion. It's hard to be passionate about something you don't have any confidence in. For me, shooting my M&P's had become 100% deflating because I had no more confidence in them after the ongoing accuracy issues and hassles with Smith. Now that I'm shooting Glocks again, I'm all excited about it, which will probably fuel better performance. Heck, I even called up a local range to see when their next GSSF match was...just fun to be confident in a weapon again.

It's strange that you say that, because my lack of passion with a Glock actually had nothing to do with confidence issues. I actually still shoot a Glock pretty well, and I know it'll function. Just stopped being very fun to shoot.

I think you're right actually, that thought just never occurred to me because I'd never had that problem.

Good post, man.

[Magic_Salad0892]

Is it weird that I feel this way about modified glocks -crickets-

Nope. I used to.

[ToddG]

The human condition. It can't all be data driven all the time can it?

Let me check my database.


Is it weird that I feel this way about modified glocks -crickets-

Not at all. I know people who love classic cars, they do nothing for me. Those same people look at a brand new 911 Turbo S and yawn. To me that's demented. To them, I'm demented.

It doesn't matter what sparks your passion, just that something does.

[Tamara]

Is it weird that I feel this way about modified glocks -crickets-

Not at all. Folks get spun up about what they get spun up about.


*EDIT: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 jinx! Now you can't talk 'til someone says your name, Todd!

[GardoneVT]

I feel like an E-1 at a Joint Cheifs of Staff Meeting saying this, but here goes.

Balance ,IMO, is the key. Passion and science together. Too much science means a shooter is chasing parts and mods for all eternity trying to wring an extra .00001 seconds out of their shooting drills. Too much passion and you get the 1911forum.

Thus, each person needs to find their own happy middle. Some will find it in a P30. Others, an aluminum frame Sig or Beretta.

[David B.]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/Apostolos/carry_zps3a414929.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Apostolos/media/carry_zps3a414929.jpg.html)

Beretta 92A1 modifications:

chopped and re-crowned barrel
slide and barrel refinishing
custom sights
Low profile decocker
Skeletonized hammer
Speedbump trigger
extended mag catch
flush mainspring cap and D spring
custom grips
Stainless steel guide rod
Front and back strap checkering and mag well flare

All those modifications almost total the entire cost of the gun, and the fact is I could probably shoot the gun just as good straight out-of-the-box without any of them.

So why did I get them? Because each modification increased my passion and pleasure for shooting the gun.

I'm not embarrassed to admit that the first gun I ever bought was a Beretta because I thought it looked cool. Over the years I've owned and shot other guns, but nothing compared to the passion I felt for shooting the Beretta.

Today I only own Berettas simply because I cannot afford to own guns that I'm not passionate about shooting and are only going to sit in the safe.

God Bless,
David

[Magic_Salad0892]

Those Beretta grips look rad. What kind are they?

[David B.]

Those Beretta grips look rad. What kind are they?

They are Vertec grips modified by me. You can read about it here.

http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=92788

God bless,
David

[Chuck Haggard]

This is why I keep a couple of nonBUG .357mag wheelguns around, and .22 revolvers.


Just going out and shooting .22s at cans and dirt clods and hedge apple balls is so freaking zen.

[Malamute]

Excellent thread, and great posts all around.

[tomr]

Col Townsend Whelen, after retiring from the Army wrote books and articles for magazines from the '40s to the '60s, mostly about rifles. A famous quote from him that gets repeated from time to time, even today was, "Only accurate rifles are interesting". After my time at Remington, (mid 70s to mid 80s), I was helping out Don Allen and Pete Grisel (just a little), when they were starting Dakota Arms - mostly at the SHOT show. We took the Colonel's quote and modified it to be this, "only accurate rifles are interesting, but only rifles that are well made and good looking are worth owning"

[Suvorov]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/Apostolos/carry_zps3a414929.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Apostolos/media/carry_zps3a414929.jpg.html)


If that doesn't get the juices flowing in every pizza loving pistolero out there - I don't think anything will!

[Dagga Boy]

Not at all. I know people who love classic cars, they do nothing for me. Those same people look at a brand new 911 Turbo S and yawn. To me that's demented. To them, I'm demented.

It doesn't matter what sparks your passion, just that something does.

I am big on the car analogy.........I'm a Hemi Superbird and 1911 kind of passion guy:cool:.
I just did a post sort of along these lines on Modern Service Weapons. I still LOVE 1911's and N frame Smiths...........and P7's. All forged steel goodness that have souls. All will still work in today's world. But like cars, my days of driving something everyday that has a "carb and points" is a total non-starter. I did the sub 11 second quarter daily driver muscle car thing once..........never again. That doesn't mean I don't wish I still had my old Plymouth Road Runner back for weekend thrills and to eat foreign exotics (as long as no turns or stopping is involved ;)).

Luckily, I am old enough and retired enough to be fine with packing an easy to maintain and carry modern polymer service pistol daily, but I still love to strap on a high end custom 1911 or big bore revolver and feel the passion and eternal wondrous feelings that these things bring. As I recently told a young "popular" firearms trainer....."you know what the difference is between me and you.........my gun has teeth marks in the trigger guard". Everytime I pick up the Hebrew Hammer, I think "life is good". Everytime I pick up the P30, I think "I really should clean this thing one of these days".

[MD7305]

I'm a Glock shooter and that's what I've committed myself to shoot for various reasons. I hear all the time that my gun "has no soul." I understand where those folks are coming from as I have felt a certain amount of passion from some of guns I've owned in the past such as a Beretta Elite and S/A TRP. In my opinion what gives me passion about a gun are the experiences I've had using that particular gun. Maybe I shot my best match with it, took a class with it, made a 250yd. ring on steel with it, shooting with friends, etc. Perhaps that sounds silly but that's what I've experienced. My carry gun is a G22G4 chopped and stippled (by me) and I've shot it in a variety of settings, it's provided many good memories and lessons, and been reliable. It was not hand assembled or produced in limited production but there's just something about it that I appreciate.

[Chuck Haggard]

My duty G17 grew a soul the day I put 5700 rounds through it without any stoppages.

[45dotACP]

This thread is the perfect place for me to do my first post on the forum.........

Now that I no longer shoot competitively in matches, I shoot primarily for two reasons: #1 to keep my proficiency up in case I ever need to deploy the pistol that's always on my hip. #2 Because I enjoy shooting and it's still plain ole FUN for me after all these years and millions of rounds downrange.

That being said I just don't enjoy guns that in my good buddy Ken Hackathorn's words "come out of the box with no pride of ownership". For me most polymer frame guns fit this category (P30 might be an exception), even though I personally shoot the PX4, M&P, P30 and FNS very well compared to others I shoot much more often. I just don't do Glocks due to the grip angle.

So when I go shooting (which I normally do 2-3 times a week) I want to shoot guns I enjoy and have pride in owning, like 1911s, Beretta 92s and various revolvers. At over 60 now both Ken and I have pretty much decided that shooting a lot of .45 like we used to just isn't as much fun as it was when we had fewer aches and pains! That coupled with what a 9mm will do down range with modern bullets/propellants has us both primarily shooting 9mm these days.

Not to say I don't shoot a wide variety of pistol models, I do because I want to be proficient with virtually any handgun I pick up. But when it comes to enjoyment, it's just a lot more fun to shoot guns you are very proud to own. These days guns that fit that category for me and what I shoot the most are:

WC 1911 Ultralight Carry spec Compact 9mm built on a steel frame
WC 1911 Ultralight Carry full size 9mm, aluminum frame
Beretta 92G SD or 92G Brigadier

I have a bunch of polymer pistols that are great "tools" and I have great confidence in the PX4 compact I often carry and personally shoot it very well, but as Ken O says "it comes out of the box with no pride of ownership" !

I take it this is WilsonCombatRep's boss?
I certainly understand the pride of ownership difference between one of your wares and a Beretta Px4...that said, I feel my Glock has more soul than my model 64 revolver on the basis of the effort I have put into making it fit my personal needs. My 1911 does have significantly more pride attached to it however, as I built it from the ground up. With more than a couple of parts from your company.

Welcome aboard...Can't wait to see anything you post about 1911's!

[Totem Polar]

#1) This thread is particularly germane to my own inner battles, since my passion is forever rekindled by wheel guns with tuned triggers and chamfered cylinder chambers. A big part of me still considers my model 12 S&W snub to be the best carry gun ever produced. The rest of me realizes that a G26 out of the box will eat its lunch. I suppose one can have two parallel hobbies: defense (fighting) and shooting; this is America, after all.

#2) Bill Wilson is now a member here. More warm and fuzzy than the entire fleece section of a L.L. Bean catalog.
:cool:

[45dotACP]

More warm and fuzzy than the entire fleece section of a L.L. Bean catalog.
:cool:

At least you didn't say the Land's End catalog :D

[Tamara]

I think a lot of people confuse the customs of their land with the laws of the universe. Believe it or not, there are many people who don't get the whole "soul/craftsmanship/pride of ownership" thing with the 1911. They look at the most expensive, nicely-built, collectible Swenson and see an old, ugly gun that doesn't hold a lot of bullets, but they will wax poetic over, say, a USP.

And that's cool, too.

[Vinh]

For me, shooting lost its fun years ago. It's become something I have to do rather than something I want to do. Yet, my passion for the 1911 remains, even though I'm a hobbit that has no business shooting anything larger than 9mm. It seems my desire to shoot a .45 1911 outweighs my desire to win a FAST coin. :D

[ToddG]

For me, shooting lost its fun years ago.

We need to fix that.

[Totem Polar]

At least you didn't say the Land's End catalog :D

I'm more a "Lands and Grooves End" sort of guy.

[ToddG]

I'm more a "Lands and Grooves End" sort of guy.


http://youtu.be/5atPYaxX0lM

[hufnagel]

I love my P30 and P2000SK twins. They're accurate, reliable and I have 100% faith In them doing whatever task called upon them. That being said, my SR22 is just SO MUCH FUN to shoot! It puts a big smile on my face every time. Shooting can be serious business but it also NEEDS to be fun.

Same goes with cars. The Jeep hauls stuff. The wife's car hauls the family on long trips. The Shadow gets the crap kicked out of it because it's the beater. The SRT-4, every time I drive it it never fails to put a monstrous grin on my face. It cures a bad day faster than my wife can. :eek:

"When you ask the SRT-4 to take you somewhere fast, it punches you in the face, throws you over its shoulder, and runs, screaming, so quickly that its tires can barely keep up."
It's just fun. ;)

[warbird]

I accidently just found this forum while researching a particular pistol. I am very passionate about firearms in general and handguns in particular. Have a wide variety including revolvers and pistols. Love to collect and I shoot what I collect though at 62 not as well as I once did. I was taught by Uncle Sam in 1971 to shoot the 1911. I now own two and still love the 1911. When I became a police officer in 1979 a revolver was required. Bought a Colt Diamondback and still own it. Go to the range as often as I can afford to. As far as polymer is concerned I am fond of the CZ, M&P, FNS and Kahr. Sorry...no Glocks!

[Dagga Boy]

My duty G17 grew a soul the day I put 5700 rounds through it without any stoppages.

Then your light mounted G22 stole it...............:cool:

[Rosco Benson]

Hi, my name is Rosco and I'm a gun-aholic and I've been lurking here for quite a while. Funny that this is the thread, out of all the others, that got me to register.

The 1911 (specifically a well-appointed 1911) is still what gets me passionate about shooting. I just love the feel, looks, and ease of use of a good 1911. .45, Super 38, or 9mm, they simply rock and rule.

I can get almost as passionate about 3" S&W K-frames and 5" N-frames. I was pretty ambivalent regarding Glocks until the GFA came out. It addressed the "feel" issue for me and I've learned to get pretty passionate about running Glocks now too. Jury's still out on the Gen 4 factory beavertail for me.

A friend invited me skeet-shooting a few years ago. I had shot trap and found it as boring as watching paint dry. The other trap shooters were all grumpy and acted like it was work. Skeet, on the other hand, required moving around the course in a group, with time to socialize and rag on one another's misses. I love the game, but the rather nice SKB O/U I bought for it evokes exactly ZERO passion in me. It's a tennis racket. Something you need to play the game you like. Funny, I can handle and shoot my Scattergun Tech 870 and I do feel the passion thing. That shotgun just looks like it wants to go kill something. I've shot a few rounds of skeet with it. You get looked at funny.

A few weeks ago, Michael Bane had this piece on his blog http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-few-thought-before-weekend.html His comments about the early days of IPSC being so much fun because little was settled and fully understood yet. It was an era of discovery and invention. Back then, we would sit on Hackathorn's porch and pass around the latest and greatest new holster or mag pouch or new pistol with a new modification on Saturday night before the Sunday match (we would also drink copious amounts of Ken's beer, while he held court and drank Pepsi. No wonder he always outshot us).

I'll agree with Todd. If it quits being fun, fix it. Try a new gun, a new game, different training. Practical weaponcraft skills are useful in deadly serious situations. So is knowing how to do CPR, I just don't feel compelled to go practice CPR every week.

Rosco

[ToddG]

Great post, Rosco, and welcome to the land of active participants!

[JAD]

I took my hat off when I saw Mr. Wilson post, but I threw it up in the air when Rosco showed up.

[ToddG]

I took my hat off when I saw Mr. Wilson post, but I threw it up in the air when Rosco showed up.

http://www.insidefacebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/100810-rdup-awes.jpg

[Tamara]

It's getting like Old Home Week up in here.

[SteveK]

Great stuff. That's the great thing about Ken's old Sunday Study Group at Fort Harmar. The training and camaraderie is great and you see a lot of cool stuff. Someone is always bringing something cool with plenty of ammo to test drive it. The side shoots that get set up to shoot the cool stuff are the stuff memories are made of too. One wintery day we shot a "Battle of the Bulge" scenario using a K98 taken from a pile of surrendered German guns @ Bastogne, a MP38 (how many people have ever seen one) and a captured Luger. That's the stuff dreams of gun enthusiasts are made of. It's cool to be serious about training, it's cool if you just view your blaster a dependable tool. But it's real cool to be serious with a blaster that cranks your wheel.

[Comedian]

I feel like an E-1 at a Joint Cheifs of Staff Meeting saying this, but here goes.

Balance ,IMO, is the key. Passion and science together. Too much science means a shooter is chasing parts and mods for all eternity trying to wring an extra .00001 seconds out of their shooting drills. Too much passion and you get the 1911forum.

Thus, each person needs to find their own happy middle. Some will find it in a P30. Others, an aluminum frame Sig or Beretta.

This covers it for me. Life is short. It should be fun as often as possible! Hmm, Im thinking my next passion may be for the striker fired P30. I have a feeling this thread is going to contribute to my bank account becoming leaner.

[Rosco Benson]

I took my hat off when I saw Mr. Wilson post, but I threw it up in the air when Rosco showed up.

I can see getting excited over Bill coming aboard, but I figured my arrival would be....crickets. Nice to be so welcomed. Shooters are the best people in the world.

Rosco

[Sal Picante]

Beretta 92G SD or 92G Brigadier


Take care of my Elite's... I sometimes miss them... But then I shoot my CZ and feel :) again.

[Kyle Reese]

I'm not going to lie. I switched to the SIG PRO to improve my overall skills with a handgun (after plateauing with the Glock), and just picked up an Arsenal SLR-104FR. Why? It's fun to shoot, and keeps me motivated. :)

[YVK]

But I don't think anyone can read his posts and fail to see that his passion for that gun is leading to more practice, more focus, and more enthusiasm that all translates, in the end, into a better chance to claw performance out of whatever you shoot.

His passion for that gun is a function of a belief (and in his eyes, of a fact) that his performance with it is unsurpassed by his performance with any other gun. That, and the fact he thinks all things Eastern European are the best.

Your passion for 1911 was in the process of working through challenges, much like my 20K effort with P30, despite the fact that it is a hardest gun to shoot well that I've had any substantial experience with.

I'd say it isn't a gun passion for me, it is a process passion, whatever that process might be and whatever gun fits in this particular process of the moment. Contrary to Bill's take on this, pride of ownership does little for me, although admittedly I developed this attitude after having owned just about anything I wanted to own.

[JonInWA]

I look at a pistol as a tool, but I like to use ones that are effective and interesting. Price doesn't necessarily function in-my collection's run the gamut from a Ruger P85 to a SIG-Neuhausen P210, and today includes both Glocks and a John Martz restored P.08 (which gets shot in an IDPA match annually).

Comparisons between "classic" 1911s and "soulless" Glocks are interesting. I'm sure that the same level of discussion has gone on from time immemorial, from when Og saw Og Jr. transitioning from the historically accepted M1A1 rock to a stone-tipped spear...

While I can appreciate the designer's intellect and artistry inherent to a given weapon, I don't necessarily buy into the proposition that one has soul merely by dint of 1) Being designed by John Moses Browning and 2) Is comprised of hammer-forged steel and walnut, and one (say, Glock) because it was designed by Gaston Glock and is significantly comprised of stampings, moldings and polymer compounds. There is admirable human and manufacturing intellect/genius/artistry in both in my opinion. That one is more easily replicable, and with less hand-work involved is not a per se discriminator against it. It simply requires a different type of appreciation.

Some guns simply do things better than others-more efficiently, more reliably, and more durably. If they have more of an aesthetic draw to that mix, more power to 'em-and they're more likely to be both appreciated and a classic. A lot of it depends upon the specific user, and the actual user and dependability he'll ascribe to the given gun. In my case, for example, I'll cherish my John Martz-worked-over P.08 for several things-the genius of Luger, the production industrial beauty imparted into the gun by Mauser, it's historical significance (both as a genius and in my specific gun's provenance), the fun John Martz (who lamentably passed away last year) and I had in discussing transforming a routine WWII Soviet capture piece into a highly usable example of past and current gunsmiths, metal refinishers, and woodworker's art. It's usable and reliable-but if I'm going into a dark place, as I've said before, it'll be a Glock kinda day. All of my Glocks simply...work. Reliably, round after round. With multiple bullet configurations. With low maintenance. In hideous weather/environments. With little magazine vicissitudes. With truly easy user applied variations, Glock and/or otherwise (I pretty much keep mine "Glock"). To me, there's a significant amount of beauty and artistry in that.

Similarly, I had a great time with Nighthawk Custom in truly custom speccing out my Talon II. Its a great gun. But, as I've recently discussed, it can have some operational/magazine constraints...Where my Glock 21, also in .45 ACP, just routinely chugs along...

Sometimes, you have to keep things in perspective. It doesn't have to mean that there's a "right" and a "wrong" perspective, but that you can look at a tool both from a passionate and dispassionate aspect. And then make appropriate/situational decisions accordingly. For the biblical-minded, Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 (and the Byrds' hauntingly beautiful song using its as its lyrics) seems particularly apropos...

In my book, it's truly ok to want, have, and enjoy a high-end, perhaps custom-crafted/embellished "barbecue gun." And it's also ok to enjoy a common example of a mass-produced pistol. And it's more than ok to value, appreciate, and know when to select and use each...

Best, Jon Stein

[theJanitor]

Sensibility convinced me to switch from 1911's to Glocks a few years ago. Passion for custom Colts brought me back to the 1911 (I have three more, inbound, this coming week). I almost jumped headfirst down the slippery slope of custom HP's last week. Lack of money trumped passion

[SecondsCount]

Guns are cool. Ever since my Dad handed me a 22 rifle at around eight years old and showed me how to hit an empty ammo box at 10 yards, I have been an addict. I like shooting everything from benchrest rifle, IDPA, 3-Gun, or just a Saturday afternoon at the trap club.

My issue has always been with trying to stay focused. I realized a couple years ago, thanks to the influence of TLG and a few others, that if I stayed with one gun during an extended period of time, I could improve my shooting. It hasn't always been easy but shooting better is fun.

[HCM]

I think a lot of people confuse the customs of their land with the laws of the universe. Believe it or not, there are many people who don't get the whole "soul/craftsmanship/pride of ownership" thing with the 1911. They look at the most expensive, nicely-built, collectible Swenson and see an old, ugly gun that doesn't hold a lot of bullets, but they will wax poetic over, say, a USP.

And that's cool, too.


Everyone comes from their own frame of reference:

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr324/hcm3156/1911-Glock-Hipoint.jpg

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2014/03/03/how-1911-glock-and-hi-point-users-see-themselves-and-each-other/

[ToddG]

Also a very good point, SecondsCount. A couple weeks ago I put something up on my blog about how every round in practice should matter. One long time reader and genuinely good guy asked, basically, "Do you ever just shoot for fun?" And my response was that practicing to get better was the fun part for me. Given a choice between putting a thousand rounds through a Glock 18 for grins or taking that thousand rounds and practicing with my carry gun, I'm going to be a lot happier at the end of the day having practiced effectively.

But if someone is getting burned out, it's time to assess and make some changes. I've definitely known guys who got so wrapped around the axle about performance that it sucked all the joy out of their shooting. Some people could practice twelve hours a day and love every minute of it, some can't or won't or just don't. Sure there are times when it's good to push through and practice because you need to. But if you're doing that every single time you're at the range, you're really not getting your time & money's worth. Take a break, switch guns, switch drills, do whatever it takes to be find the motivation.

[NickA]

This thread made me realize that my "soulless" G19 (the only gun I've trained with, and my only 'serious' gun for a long time) saw me through my first 3 training classes with John Farnam, ToddG and Tom Givens. So now despite being nothing special it's tied up with all those great memories, and I can't see parting with it.
Still, while I'm nowhere near maxed out skill wise, I'm feeling the need to try something else, just to get a little spark back after barely shooting at all in 2013. The SP2022 or CZ P07 are sure looking like a cheap, fun way to explore TDA :D

[tremiles]

Also a very good point, SecondsCount. A couple weeks ago I put something up on my blog about how every round in practice should matter. One long time reader and genuinely good guy asked, basically, "Do you ever just shoot for fun?" And my response was that practicing to get better was the fun part for me. Given a choice between putting a thousand rounds through a Glock 18 for grins or taking that thousand rounds and practicing with my carry gun, I'm going to be a lot happier at the end of the day having practiced effectively.

But if someone is getting burned out, it's time to assess and make some changes. I've definitely known guys who got so wrapped around the axle about performance that it sucked all the joy out of their shooting. Some people could practice twelve hours a day and love every minute of it, some can't or won't or just don't. Sure there are times when it's good to push through and practice because you need to. But if you're doing that every single time you're at the range, you're really not getting your time & money's worth. Take a break, switch guns, switch drills, do whatever it takes to be find the motivation.

Well said, and DoTW is a great way to mitigate motivational factors while still focusing on increasing performance.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[ToddG]

Well said, and DoTW is a great way to mitigate motivational factors while still focusing on increasing performance.

Well, DotW is probably going bye-bye. Four or five people a week posting scores isn't really accomplishing much and it probably takes me more time to pick, write, and post than it's worth. But that's a topic for a different thread...

[tremiles]

Well, DotW is probably going bye-bye. Four or five people a week posting scores isn't really accomplishing much and it probably takes me more time to pick, write, and post than it's worth. But that's a topic for a different thread...

OT, but are the existing DoTW threads going away to save forum space, or just new drills not going to be posted? I apologize for not personally contributing with my scores, bit the combination of shame and adapting most of the drills to a range that doesn't allow a holster draw prevent it.

Edit...

And thanks for all the work you put into EVERYTHING in addition to DoTW.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[JodyH]

Blasting (well, attempting to blast) hand tossed clay pigeons with a rat shot loaded .22 magnum NAA mini-revolver dang sure isn't "making every shot count" but is sure does fire off the pleasure synapses in the brain.

[ToddG]

Just probably no new DotWs.

[JeffJ]

Maybe a Drill of the Month would work better - It's tough for me to justify changing my plan and allocating the ammo to shoot different drills on relatively short notice, but I find that I'll use them maybe a few weeks later

[JonInWA]

Everyone comes from their own frame of reference:

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr324/hcm3156/1911-Glock-Hipoint.jpg

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2014/03/03/how-1911-glock-and-hi-point-users-see-themselves-and-each-other/

That chart's hilarious!

Best, Jon!

[JAD]

I can see getting excited over Bill coming aboard, but I figured my arrival would be....crickets. Nice to be so welcomed. Shooters are the best people in the world.

Rosco

Both corrections and the Paladin system are woefully under represented.

Jon
KC

[feudist]

this thread made me realize that my "soulless" g19 (the only gun i've trained with, and my only 'serious' gun for a long time) saw me through my first 3 training classes with john farnam, toddg and tom givens. So now despite being nothing special it's tied up with all those great memories, and i can't see parting with it.
Still, while i'm nowhere near maxed out skill wise, i'm feeling the need to try something else, just to get a little spark back after barely shooting at all in 2013. The sp2022 or cz p07 are sure looking like a cheap, fun way to explore tda :d

You certainly started off your training with 3 of the best.

A very well rounded CV.

[2alpha-down0]

Just probably no new DotWs.

http://youtu.be/kFT083GhycM


Sent from my iThingy using Tapawhatsit

[BN]

Blue steel revolvers. :)

I like my Nastoff 45 also. ;)

[JSGlock34]

Is it weird that I feel this way about modified glocks -crickets-

I do understand why folks say Glocks have no soul. The 1911 has history behind it. Much like comparing my Omega Speedmaster with my Suunto CORE - both tell time, but the heart of one is a classic Swiss manual wound movement and the other has a Chinese microchip. Truth be told - the Suunto is the more useful watch, but the Speedmaster has a lineage.

But I view my Glocks differently. Sure, my custom 1911 is a fine piece of machinery, built by a true craftsman with parts I selected. And if a part breaks, or I want to change something, there's a good chance it's going to need the ministrations of that skilled craftsman. On the other hand, I've been around Glocks for almost 20 years, attended the armorer's course, and am proficient maintaining and customizing my Glocks and those of my friends. I truly appreciate the craftsmanship and heritage in my 1911, but there is more of me in my Glocks.

[Plato]

No matter how much I practice with my carry guns, either the G26 or G19, I get very little satisfaction from them. I took a couple other guns with me to the last range visit and realized how much I enjoy shooting the Beretta 92 (compact model this time). The only other guns that get me as excited as I was while shooting the 92c are all .22 LR. So maybe I need to shoot some more from my AA kit to keep me excited about the Glocks, or maybe just transition altogether to the Beretta. I wish I had the 92c years ago when I took your course, Todd. If I intend to shoot as much as I would like to and as much as I should, I'd better figure out how to rekindle the passion. Since shooting is now a very small part of my career, my life is too busy to commit time to a hobby of little emotional benefit.

[ldunnmobile]

Are crappy shooters allowed to post in this thread?

I used to think I loved Sigs more than Glocks... until I actually compared my performance with both. With the caveat of not being a great pistoleer, I have found I have the most fun shooting what performs best for me. So performance drives what is fun for me.

[TigerStripe]

Are crappy shooters allowed to post in this thread?

I was staying out of this thread for that reason. I have more of a passion for shooting my M&P than I do with my Glocks most likely due to ergonomics. I have done my best shooting with the M&P but not much better than I do with Glocks. I've been wondering if a grip reduction would give me more passion for the Glock which I went to because of inability to get M&P mags, the unique size of the G19 and the inaccuracy related in threads here.

[fixer]

Todd,

Thanks for starting this thread. Not sure if I even have the credibility to post in this thread but I can relate to a lot of the sentiments here. I've tried to train with Glocks and been disappointed with how much effort I had to put into the platform to get ok results. I want to like the gun. I get frustrated. I am seriously jealous of folks who can get sub 4" groups at 25 yds with a Glock. I've done it by luck about 10 times in a half dozen years.

I pick up one of my 92s and the bullets just seem to go where I want them to-- every-single-time. I always leave the range with a smile after practicing with the 92. To a lesser extent the PX4 does the same thing. It doesn't feel like practice at all. I want to shoot my PX4s and my 92s. I end up forcing myself to practice with the Glocks.

[ToddG]

I'm genuinely sad to see the "I don't know if I am cool/smart/good enough to post" comments. In fact, while many threads here at PF get highly technical and sometimes folks offer advice or opinions "outside their lane," this is about what you shoot and what motivates you to shoot. There are no invalid or lesser opinions on that topic, just cool stories. :cool:

[orionz06]

My fun gun is my 22/45 Lite with a Silencerco Sparrow hanging off the end. Gonna get some Dawson sites and use it to quietly shoot some bullseye like stuff because it's not a S&W 41...


DoTW.... Why not post drills in the same manner but limit it to the first 20 (or whatever) number of people. In the winter maybe it takes 2 months, in the summer maybe 2 days or 2 weeks.

[Don Gwinn]

I'm genuinely sad to see the "I don't know if I am cool/smart/good enough to post" comments. In fact, while many threads here at PF get highly technical and sometimes folks offer advice or opinions "outside their lane," this is about what you shoot and what motivates you to shoot. There are no invalid or lesser opinions on that topic, just cool stories. :cool:

See, you say that, but in my experience, a lot of people simply don't have the maturity to appreciate my passion for the classic Lorcin pistol or a carefully-customized Jennings. I mean, don't get me wrong, I trust a Hi-Point . . . but they don't have the soul you can feel when you pick up a Lorcin.

:sly:

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

[Casual Friday]

Great thread. I've found that since reacquiring a Sig Pro a month ago, I'm much more focused about improving all things pistol related. I've been dry firing almost daily since I picked it up. Last night I had a kid free and wife free evening so I watched Justified and worked on drawing from my IWB holster, SHO and OSHO dry fire in both DA and SA, and working through the mechanics of both reloads with retention and tac reloads. I ran the TDA Dot Torture in dry fire last night to familiarize myself with the TDA version which I've never ran. My passion about the Sig was reaffirmed on my first outing with it. I shot that gun with the wicked crazy high bore axis and hernia inducing DA first shot better than I'd shot all year long with a striker fired gun.

[Tamara]

Are crappy shooters allowed to post in this thread?

Well, I didn't get in trouble for it, so everyone else should be good. :)

[JHC]

I didn't think it wise to discount passion factoring into the selection an individual weapon and whatever floats someone's passion boat doesn't matter to me. I was literally raised with K frames (late '60's through '70's) and have had my decades of 1911, BHP. But now I'm more than a decade devoted primarily to shooting Glock 9mms and I enjoy shooting them because I like performing well with a pistol because that is more fun to me; and for the all round action type shooting I do mostly, I perform better with a Glock 9mm than anything else I've owned or borrowed. When I see several consecutive sub 5 second 10-8 head shot standards shot clean with one of my Glocks I look upon it with great affection and it's beautiful to me!



I immediately understood Ken's famous "no pride of ownership" and thought it was a great turn of a phrase and totally legit for as many shooters as feel it's so. No skin off the web of my hand. My Glocks take care of that!

[Magic_Salad0892]

Another reason I feel better shooting BHPs, 1911s, CZs, SIGs, or Berettas is because they don't feel like "defensive tools". They feel like "precision instruments".

Pride of ownership. Maybe. I can positively say that I better understand the operation of my carry gun, and it's employment now that I have a weapon that requires more work/maintenance. Shooting it feels more natural. (And TBH, if I wasn't hooked on all steel manual safety SAO guns, I'd be shooting a SIG or Beretta.)

[David Armstrong]

This thread is the perfect place for me to do my first post on the forum.........

Now that I no longer shoot competitively in matches, I shoot primarily for two reasons: #1 to keep my proficiency up in case I ever need to deploy the pistol that's always on my hip. #2 Because I enjoy shooting and it's still plain ole FUN for me after all these years and millions of rounds downrange.

That being said I just don't enjoy guns that in my good buddy Ken Hackathorn's words "come out of the box with no pride of ownership". For me most polymer frame guns fit this category (P30 might be an exception), even though I personally shoot the PX4, M&P, P30 and FNS very well compared to others I shoot much more often. I just don't do Glocks due to the grip angle.

So when I go shooting (which I normally do 2-3 times a week) I want to shoot guns I enjoy and have pride in owning, like 1911s, Beretta 92s and various revolvers. At over 60 now both Ken and I have pretty much decided that shooting a lot of .45 like we used to just isn't as much fun as it was when we had fewer aches and pains! That coupled with what a 9mm will do down range with modern bullets/propellants has us both primarily shooting 9mm these days.

Not to say I don't shoot a wide variety of pistol models, I do because I want to be proficient with virtually any handgun I pick up. But when it comes to enjoyment, it's just a lot more fun to shoot guns you are very proud to own. These days guns that fit that category for me and what I shoot the most are:

WC 1911 Ultralight Carry spec Compact 9mm built on a steel frame
WC 1911 Ultralight Carry full size 9mm, aluminum frame
Beretta 92G SD or 92G Brigadier

I have a bunch of polymer pistols that are great "tools" and I have great confidence in the PX4 compact I often carry and personally shoot it very well, but as Ken O says "it comes out of the box with no pride of ownership" !
Welcome aboard, Bill. You were the first guy that customized a 1911 for me. That was in the late 70's, and IIRC your full custom package for a fighting 1911 at that time was around $500!;) I agree quite a bit. I love my Glocks and consider them to be the ultimate fighting handguns for me, and I make it a point to keep my skills up to snuff. But more and more I find myself shooting something else for fun, often a .38 revolver or for a real blast digging out a Luger or a Mauser 96 or something with character.

[justintime]

I bet dotw would do a lot better if it was monthly

[backtrail540]

I find a similar correlation in shooting a match vs helping run a match. I remember a few years back when I shot my first match...man I was geeked. The feeling and adrenaline was instantly addictive and the smile hardly left my face during the next month. I couldn't stop thinking about it. Then I started setup/tear down, ROing ,and now I do scores too. With all of the extra circulars a match feels more like a chore than a fun time with like minded people. I didn't even shoot some of the matches last year because I simply couldn't wait to get it over with. A lot of that has to do with our schedule which requires setup and teardown all in the same day as the match and then scores that night which takes up an entire day and can be exhausting. This year I am going to try changing some things and get that feeling back. Our club is always looking for more help but everyone I try and recruit, I also caution that they will get a different outlook when they start doing all of the business end stuff.

[Rosco Benson]

This thread made me realize that my "soulless" G19 (the only gun I've trained with, and my only 'serious' gun for a long time) saw me through my first 3 training classes with John Farnam, ToddG and Tom Givens. So now despite being nothing special it's tied up with all those great memories, and I can't see parting with it.

Great memories can make fairly blah guns pretty special to us. I have a RRA 24" varmint AR that is nothing special to look at. Dead stock. It is laser-accurate and I've shot so many prairie dogs with it that I'm rather fond of it. Whenever I handle it, I fondly recall laying prone in the blazing sun making rats explode, with nothing man-made in sight except what I packed in.

Rosco

[Joe in PNG]

Sadly, my most soulful gun is an old Colt 1903- a 1906 vintage with 5 digit SN. I love to shoot the little guy, but the caliber is way substandard, and good mags are really hard to find.
However, I do love shooting my M&Pc as well. And for some odd reason, the idea of regular, disciplined shooting with it seems to be more right than with my 107 year old antique.

[BobLoblaw]

My experience is telling when it comes to passion, but when the bullets go exactly where I want them and often it's a little man-steel bonding moment. The more of those moments, the more mental high fives, the more desire to push myself. When you're happy with yourself, it seems others' opinions of the brand in your hand is an afterthought. I think some people are so good they get bored with being awesome and then must challenge themselves with something excitingly different whereas others like me just want a taste of being awesome.

[Jason Burton]

...But when it comes to enjoyment, it's just a lot more fun to shoot guns you are very proud to own.

Absolutely agree… and for me this is 1911s and N-Frame Smiths… guns that are so enjoyable to own that simply seeing, handling, and dry firing them makes me smile.

[rekkr870]

This may only be me, but I just love everything there is about training with a handgun. I love drawing from a holster, I love the press out, I love the feel that the slide makes when it locks back and I love sending the slide home with a fresh mag. Hell, I love the smell of the gunpowder in the air when training.

Call me a weirdo but that's just the way I feel. It makes me happy to shoot and if your happy doing something then it is so much easier to improve at it.

Oh and the feel of an all metal gun (preferably SIG 226 or 229) just does it for me.

My .02

[SeriousStudent]

Fascinating thread.

For me, the passion comes from two things. One is shooting a family heirloom. A break-top Smith revolver that belonged to my great-grandfather, a Texas lawman in the 19th century. A Savage .32 that my grandfather pocket-carried in the Depression - (And I'm not talking 2008). A Colt 1911 made in 1954, and carried by my father. A beautifully blued Colt Lawman in .357 that was passed down to me, a gift from my mother.

The second element of passion is an improved performance, and yes, especially with my Glocks. It means I am more capable that day to protect my son and daughter with my carry pistols. That is something I am very passionate about.

[Bill Wilson]

Absolutely agree… and for me this is 1911s and N-Frame Smiths… guns that are so enjoyable to own that simply seeing, handling, and dry firing them makes me smile.

Early N frames are VERY nice, but when we talk quality it's a pre-74 Colt Python :)

[Drang]

The first firearm I bought was an M1 Garand. My carry piece is a 1911*. I sometimes have to force myself to recognize the fact that there are folks who own and carry guns for whom the phrase "The Passion Of The Gun" would be gibberish.


*1911-ish. It's a Combat Commander.

[fixer]

This may only be me, but I just love everything there is about training with a handgun. I love drawing from a holster, I love the press out, I love the feel that the slide makes when it locks back and I love sending the slide home with a fresh mag. Hell, I love the smell of the gunpowder in the air when training.

Call me a weirdo but that's just the way I feel. It makes me happy to shoot and if your happy doing something then it is so much easier to improve at it.

Oh and the feel of an all metal gun (preferably SIG 226 or 229) just does it for me.

My .02

Same here.

My previous hobby of drag racing was the same way. I enjoyed having the smell of engine oil on my hands. the feel of the ratchet. the anxiety when you are pulling spark plugs. the smell of av gas from tail pipes...yeah...I get it. good analogy.

[JeffJ]

I didn't really get the pride/passion thing until I was able to spend some time talking guns and shooting with an uncle of mine who was an old IPSC shooter. Every gun he had was gone over by a gunsmith and set up exactly how he wanted it. That uncle passed away last year and left me his guns, when I went to pick everything up (after driving from TX to IN) I ended up spending an entire day getting loaded up, one because I vastly underestimated the amount of reloading components, but mainly because I would get distracted when I would find a file folder with printed out emails between him and a gunsmith going back and forth over every little detail on some build that he was doing. Fast forward a little bit, and I haven't shot any of my Glocks in months and have just started carrying a CZ 75BD that I've completely set up the way I want it , well except of sights - but I'm having CZC mill some to my specs so hopefully that won't take too long.

The experience changed my outlook from the idea that out of the box was fine to enjoying figuring out exactly what I want and then putting that together. The CZ project was extremely rewarding for me, and I don't think I would have done it without having spent those hours in the reloading room and at the range with my uncle listening to the how and why he had his guns set up.

[shooter220]

This may only be me, but I just love everything there is about training with a handgun. I love drawing from a holster, I love the press out, I love the feel that the slide makes when it locks back and I love sending the slide home with a fresh mag. Hell, I love the smell of the gunpowder in the air when training.

Call me a weirdo but that's just the way I feel. It makes me happy to shoot and if your happy doing something then it is so much easier to improve at it.

Oh and the feel of an all metal gun (preferably SIG 226 or 229) just does it for me.

My .02

I love this post. For me, the way I have passion for shooting has evolved. When I was a kid, it was making the little metal spinners spin, and then learning to hit them at the top of their arc and making them do a 180. It was also in shooting .22s that had real sights on them. My Remington has iron sights that are identical to what you found on the centerfire rifles of that era, and they are GOOD rifle sights. It helped that Dad thought your gun should be something you took pride in, so he didn't believe in ugly, soulless guns.

Then - in high school I became a Police Explorer Scout, and we had a pistol team. I learned to shoot a revolver at the hands of some pretty good instructors. I went from shooting spinners with a rifle to shooting bullseye with a .357 magnum with a 6 inch barrel. Then, for graduation from high school I received a Beretta semi-auto shotgun and started learning to shoot skeet.

Fast forward "a few years" and a bunch of evolutions, and I LOVE to load up my P30 and push my limits with it. The old bullseye shooter in me still has to really push myself to accept a larger group, but I am getting there. It is a very fun gun to shoot - but I still enjoy a variety of other shooting pursuits. While my focus right now is on handgun skills, I am always up to grab a rifle and shoot for either small groups or the ringing of steel. I am always game for a round of skeet or wobble, and sometimes even trap. I value trigger time of any sort. I also view shooting socially - at least sometimes. It can be a lot of fun to shoot with friends who have similar views on shooting. Sometimes, however, my electronic earmuffs are turned off, I could care less what is going on around me (within the limits of safety), and I just want to be left alone with a firearm to try to see what kind of performance I can extract from it.

Do I get as giddy about shooting as I did a bunch of years ago? Almost. But the idea of someday teaching my two young sons the way Dad (and lots of others) taught me puts an absolute ear to ear grin on my face. THAT is what I most look forward to.

[Tamara]

Same here.

My previous hobby of drag racing was the same way. I enjoyed having the smell of engine oil on my hands. the feel of the ratchet. the anxiety when you are pulling spark plugs. the smell of av gas from tail pipes...yeah...I get it. good analogy.

...and to continue the automotive analogy from a few pages back and tie it into the "pride of ownership" thing, who has more pride of ownership? The kid with the twelve-year-old Civic that he's rebuilt the engine and added the turbo himself and has a glovebox full of time slips, or the dude with the leased M5 that he'll turn in for another one in two years and who never takes it to a track?

I dunno that pride of ownership can be inherent in the thing itself. (There's someplace I should be using the word "gestalt" in this post, so I'm just going to let it hang in the air there until I figure out where in a sentence I should shoehorn it.)

[Dagga Boy]

Okay, just stop on anything about "Pride of Ownership". It is literally the only excuse I have for buying any guns anymore. I am an addict, I need help but don't want it, and if we can't have "Pride of Ownership", I will hit rock bottom.

[DanH]

The "find your passion" rule was something I didn't figure out until I finally dragged my butt back to college. When I first went right after high school, lo those many years ago, an engineering major seemed like a great idea; good money, math and science, cool as heck to my geeky self. A year later I dropped out, mainly because I didn't like the classes well enough to sit through them any more. Many years later I found accounting much more interesting (yes, I admit to my abnormalities).
I have since told many nieces and nephews when they went to college to make sure they studied something that actually interested them.

[JeffJ]

He he... I have a degree in philosophy, and work in the construction/engineering side of the insurance business - Ironically, I ended up a philosophy degree by continually taking classes that interested me and I think that it has come in handy in my chosen field.

[UNK]

This is why I keep a couple of nonBUG .357mag wheelguns around, and .22 revolvers.


Just going out and shooting .22s at cans and dirt clods and hedge apple balls is so freaking zen.

I've posted it here before and I've never heard anyone say they tried it.Chief AJ's shooting camp. If you can go ...DO IT ! I've shot a lot in my life, for fun, hunting and competition. I have never never never had as much fun as at his camp. At 6' 4" and a little over 200 lbs Ruger 10-22's don't fit me that well but still...It was a blast. Breaking clay pigeons at high rates of speed with a .22 is an absolute hoot.
http://www.chiefaj.com/
Theres the link to his website. He's a man from a different era and he'll keep you entertained and amazed. He's been a Marine, a world record rifle shooter verified by gun magazines of that era. A trick shooter. A darling of Hollywood. A man of God. I can't say enough about him. I hope somebody from here goes.

[AtomicToaster]

"you know what the difference is between me and you.........my gun has teeth marks in the trigger guard".

Simultaneously hilarious and sobering...

[Rosco Benson]

http://www.chiefaj.com/
Theres the link to his website. He's a man from a different era and he'll keep you entertained and amazed. He's been a Marine, a world record rifle shooter verified by gun magazines of that era. A trick shooter. A darling of Hollywood. A man of God. I can't say enough about him. I hope somebody from here goes.

Decades ago, I saw Chief AJ (John Huffer) put on a shooting exhibition at the old Miami Valley Shooting Grounds in Vandalia, Ohio. He was amazing. They had a high enough berm that he was even able to do some aerial shooting. He wore a bog war bonnet and was quite the showman. IIRC, he had also competed in bodybuilding when he was younger. At any rate, he cut quite a figure.

He used to set up at some of the gun shows in Ohio and was fun to talk with. One of my pals bought one of AJ's tuned 10/22's that had a scout scope mounted forward on it as an understudy to his .308 scout (Gunsite 'smithy built, on a Weatherby Vanguard of all things).

Rosco

[jkurtz7]

Poly guns overall don't do it for me. I've owned a number of them over the years, but I never seem to keep one more than a few years. There is something about the Beretta 92 series guns that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. They shoot good for me, feel great in the hand, and are a proven, reliable design. The fact that Beretta is the oldest gun company on the planet somehow adds to that good feeling I get with the 92's.

My E. German Makarov is another other feel good gun for me. Don't laugh, the E. German Maks are very well made, accurate, and very reliable. The bluing on my example is rather nice too. The Beretta and Makarov both give me a sense of pride in ownership that no other handguns ever have.

[UNK]

There is nothing better in determining exactly where you need a long eye relief scope set up than by a whole day of fast paced snap shooting. I prefer aprox 3-4 inches. I think the original Gunsite Scouts had quite a bit more eye relief maybe around 10-12 inches. It doesn't work near as well for me as the 3-4 inch eye relief.
Check out his website, he's still quite the showman, outdoor enthusiast and still in darn good shape. Not to mention all the outdoor TV shows. I think I'm gonna shoot him an email right now and see if we can get into his camp for spring break.



Decades ago, I saw Chief AJ (John Huffer) put on a shooting exhibition at the old Miami Valley Shooting Grounds in Vandalia, Ohio. He was amazing. They had a high enough berm that he was even able to do some aerial shooting. He wore a bog war bonnet and was quite the showman. IIRC, he had also competed in bodybuilding when he was younger. At any rate, he cut quite a figure.

He used to set up at some of the gun shows in Ohio and was fun to talk with. One of my pals bought one of AJ's tuned 10/22's that had a scout scope mounted forward on it as an understudy to his .308 scout (Gunsite 'smithy built, on a Weatherby Vanguard of all things).

Rosco

[MDS]

just cool stories. :cool:

And not enough pictures. So...

I'm a cold and soulless person, I actually like glox. In my ignorance, it feels like everything you need, nothing you don't. I like when hardware disappears so I can focus on software.

Now. I say that, and I sound convinced, and then...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/udazubu7.jpg

I even have an upper with an rmr to put on top of this monstrosity. I don't know if this is a harmless fling with tweaked hardware, or the beginning of an expensive downward spiral...

[Malamute]

And not enough pictures...


Been some very good posts. What really inspires us, brings out the joy of using, even just handling at times. I liked the comment about using the Hebrew Hammer, and the world being right. That's always been older things for me, with a lot of history in the directions that have grabbed me. Winchesters, SA Colts, Rugers, Smiths, a few classic bolts. The flirtations I've had with self loaders leave me understanding the benefits for certain purposes, but I've never shot any auto as well as a revolver (quite surprised at how well the g-19 does at distance though), to the point of shooting better times with an SA revolver on the plate shoots I've done than I could with a 1911,... so long as reloads weren't part of the equation.

One gun I'd love to find is a 22 cal 1873 Winchester carbine copy. I had an 1866 copy ages ago, and it was probably the most fun to shoot of anything I've ever had, besides Colt SAA's. 94 and 1886 Winchesters are right up there also.

I think modern houses are more practical, but I still love my handbuilt cabin. Probably the same sideways sort of thinking I have about guns.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_5663_zps9c450fb8.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1320_zps23d1b46f.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_5866_zpsb6c6c87f.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1152.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_0473.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_2871.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1928.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/IMG_0528.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/WinchesterandGrouse.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1064.jpg

[fixer]

...and to continue the automotive analogy from a few pages back and tie it into the "pride of ownership" thing, who has more pride of ownership? The kid with the twelve-year-old Civic that he's rebuilt the engine and added the turbo himself and has a glovebox full of time slips, or the dude with the leased M5 that he'll turn in for another one in two years and who never takes it to a track?

I dunno that pride of ownership can be inherent in the thing itself. (There's someplace I should be using the word "gestalt" in this post, so I'm just going to let it hang in the air there until I figure out where in a sentence I should shoehorn it.)

With this specific analogy the civic guy.

The leased-M5 guy probably doesn't even change his own oil.

I don't know if I am feeling sporty enough to do the mental gymnastics and make an analogy of this analogy to pride of ownership in firearms.

[BN]

Malamute, I smiled at your pictures. :)

[Magic_Salad0892]

Malamute. That was a great post. I'm not a cowboy gun guy, but I'm a military gun guy. I know exactly how you feel.

[SteveK]

Agreed. That was some great stuff.

[Malamute]

Malamute. That was a great post. I'm not a cowboy gun guy, but I'm a military gun guy. I know exactly how you feel.

I get a bit warmed up by trapdoor Springfields, Krags and 1903's. I built a hybrid 1903 from parts as a shooter. Straight grip cross bolt stock, all milled hardware, '03-A3 action, new barrel. It makes me smile to shoot it, and just look at it. Really like '03 sporters also.

The others don't make me think cowboy so much as just wild and silent places, great carry guns, fast handling, stunningly reliable in my use of them, and tons of history.

[Matt O]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/outdoor%20sports/IMG_1928.jpg

All awesome pictures Malamute, but this one took the cake for me. Would love to hear more about your cabin at some point.

[Tamara]

*looks out window*
*looks at Malamute's pictures*
*looks back out window*
*cries, a little, inside*

[Malamute]

All awesome pictures Malamute, but this one took the cake for me. Would love to hear more about your cabin at some point.

My place is tiny, I built it from leftover logs from a place I built to sell. It was supposed to be temporary, but life got complicated and I haven't been able to build the larger place I had planned. Still love my little cabin, I've built several and can't imagine living in anything else. Have a pile of logs to add on though, so theres hope! Will double the basic size, and have a small office/study, and a sunroom/greenhouse on the south side.

Here's a few more pics,

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/IMG_2283.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/IMG_2733.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/IMG_0578.jpg

Looking out the front gate,

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/IMG_1143.jpg

Old dog on guard duty,

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/dog16.jpg

[Matt O]

That's pretty incredible. What an awesome location and cabin.

My wife and I are planning on buying a house this year and like Tam, I'm crying a bit inside when I compare your view to what we can afford in the Northern Virginia area. :eek:

[Malamute]

That's pretty incredible. What an awesome location and cabin.

My wife and I are planning on buying a house this year and like Tam, I'm crying a bit inside when I compare your view to what we can afford in the Northern Virginia area. :eek:

Every choice is weighing the pros and cons. This isn't an easy place to make a living, and the country can be hard at times, but it has rewards as well.

The thing you have going, you can always make a living and be close to family wherever you are, and still come visit and see the sights.

[SeriousStudent]

Malamute, you are a man that is rich beyond my words to express. I truly envy you.

[Malamute]

Malamute, you are a man that is rich beyond my words to express. I truly envy you.

I had to chuckle, being poor as a church mouse at the moment, but I agree that money isn't the measure of richness of life, nor "success". Being happy, and following your dream means a lot, though even those things have a price.

[SeriousStudent]

...... Being happy, and following your dream means a lot, though even those things have a price.

Very true in all regards.

Please give Old Dog a scratch behind the ears for me. He looks like he needs a rawhide strip as well.

Fortunately, you are located quite near a good source. :)

[Malamute]

Very true in all regards.

Please give Old Dog a scratch behind the ears for me. He looks like he needs a rawhide strip as well.

Fortunately, you are located quite near a good source. :)

Sadly, Old Dog(s) are gone, lost to cancer and other ailments. New Dog is a true Wonderdog! Absolutely hilarious at times, and ecstatically happy for the most part, especially having come from a rescue in the midwest, and transplanted to the Rockies.

New Dog got the last deer skin I got, she fleshed it nicely, then I just gave it to her. It was The Best Dog Toy Ever! It lives on in smaller pieces, hidden in specially dug holes (usually too small) all over in the yard and outside the fence whenever I leave the gate open. It's sort of a hobby of hers at this point.

Sort of back on topic of guns, New Dog isn't too gunshy, as most of the Old Dogs have been. Nice not to have to worry if I need to shoot something on short notice.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/IMG_3688.jpg

[JHC]

This thread warrants a sticky just to always be able to revisit Malamute's incredible place. :D

[Trooper224]

Malamute, you're richer than Donald Trump in many ways.

[BaiHu]

This thread warrants a sticky just to always be able to revisit Malamute's incredible place. :D

Agreed. Beautiful spot.

[shooter220]

I had to chuckle, being poor as a church mouse at the moment, but I agree that money isn't the measure of richness of life, nor "success". Being happy, and following your dream means a lot, though even those things have a price.

You may not have pockets full of cash, or gold bullion under the floorboards of your cabin, but you are doing just fine in my book.

-shooter

[rsa-otc]

Malamute two of my favorite dog breeds are Malamutes and Huskys. When I first saw your pictures my mind thought PARADISE!

[Chefdog]

My first dog as a kid was a 100# "Husky" who we suspected probably had quite a bit of Malamute in his lineage. I would've given anything to have a place like yours to romp around with that boy. Just an amazing place dude.

Oh, your leverguns are pretty badass too.

[Trukinjp13]

This thread is derailing my next plastic striker purchase. Making me remember why I loved my p220 compact. Really thinking about a p229 or a p226 mk25. I hate decisions and no I can not buy both right now! But just the feel of alloy or steel frame vs polymer makes me all giddy!

[KevinB]

Really neat thread.

As far as passion goes: Part 1 (as max 10 pics per post)

1943 Ithaca with a Colt slide I acquired in Iraq
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq001.jpg

With some help from LAV, Ned C and a few others I decided I was going to build it up. I had been carrying a G19, and while it went bang, it just did not "move me" (Plus I always wanted to shoot someone with a 1911...)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq010.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq011.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq013.jpg

It's hard to drill holes and thread them effectively by hand...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq022.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq023.jpg

[KevinB]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq025.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq030.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq032.jpg

And I forgot grip screws
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/almostdone.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq043.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq044.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq045.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/1911-Iraq047.jpg

Ak mags make good targets
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/IMG_3375.jpg

M1911 Ball (and my Recce and ammo for the Hk21)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/IMG_3384.jpg

[KevinB]

Part 3:
The gun - built with blood, sweat and tears (and a buddy from the SASR who was a machinist before he was an assaulter, Thanks Tim)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/IMG_3394.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/IMG_3391.jpg

Unfortunate cleaning regime of running a 1911 in a desert war.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq%201911/IMG_3499.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/For%20Lumpy/IMG_3433.jpg



I now carry a M&P - I still own 1911's and my LAV gun cries to go back into a holster routinely to me.

I decided this year I will build another 1911, I know I cannot build as a good a gun as a Wilson, Nighthawk, or any of the full custom gun makers, but the ride to the destination is often better than the destination.

[ASH556]

Wow Kevin, some really cool stuff going on there, thanks for sharing the pics and the story!

[JHC]

You brought it up so it begs asking? Did you get to . . . ? ;)

Very cool and no doubt; special passion with that warhorse.

What became of the Colt slide?

[KevinB]

I still have not shot anyone with a handgun... It saddens me.

Colt slide and the whole gun stayed in Iraq - gun went to guy I knew, as it could not come back to the States (stupid Lend Lease BS).

I really wish I could have, its pretty sad some of the items that get left places for lack of proper import methods.


Every time I see a new BillR post I constantly want to see what new piece of work is being made. I love custom guns, they have so much effort and soul in them.

Unlike wonder guns - even hours of stippling cannot impart soul ;)

[SeriousStudent]

I remember that thread from a long time ago, and always wondered what happened to the pistol.

I hope you have a lot of fun with the next build.

[KevinB]

One big lesson, is Drop In Parts do not drop in to 1911's...

Which make it that much more fun

[JHC]

I still have not shot anyone with a handgun... It saddens me.

Colt slide and the whole gun stayed in Iraq - gun went to guy I knew, as it could not come back to the States (stupid Lend Lease BS).

I really wish I could have, its pretty sad some of the items that get left places for lack of proper import methods.


Every time I see a new BillR post I constantly want to see what new piece of work is being made. I love custom guns, they have so much effort and soul in them.

Unlike wonder guns - even hours of stippling cannot impart soul ;)

Damn. But that last thing; my hunch is the right intense experiences might. Might. Hate that about the gun staying behind though. Kitten.

[Magic_Salad0892]

I still have not shot anyone with a handgun... It saddens me.


LMFAO.

Also, how did you get the time to build a 1911 overseas? And how were you allowed to carry a personal weapon?

[SiGFever]

Thank you to the OP for this thread, it has made me think of memories long since pushed back in the day to day hustle.

At six my grandfather wanted to give me a .22 but my mother made me settle for a BB gun. So by 8 I had my first .22 and the love affair started. I am sixty now and have been shooting all my life but never professionally, only for the passion and exhilaration. I have owned a lot of pistols and rifles over the years and each one was involved in creating special memories of time spent shooting. Some with friends and some just by myself and that particular firearm. One of the things that I have always loved about firearms is the variety and the workmanship. Ones such as Mr. Wilson makes are works of art and if it wouldn't be a sin, they could be "just" displayed in a case as art. For a long time I was a Glock hater because I too felt the "Soul" of those works of art and could not appreciate the raw functionality of the Glock. For me firearms had to be more than just a tool to do the task at hand, they had to evoke that special rush that I got holding them, gazing at the magnificent craftsmanship and attention to detail. Even a P-08 Luger with all matching serial numbers and a Menz 7.62 pistol that my dad brought back from the war has character and craftsmanship.

Several years back I bought my first Glock after recommendation of Ken Lunde, it was a little G33 in .357 SiG and I was surprised at how well that little lump of drab plastic handled and shot. Then I let an AR15 enter my world and my Browning, Remington's, Nikko, and Winchester had an ugly new brother. I have grown to appreciate their function and purpose but I still only get "That Feeling" when I handle my SAA Gen 1 or my 1928 Winchester 94 "Nickel Steel" 30-30, or my very old Marlin .22 pump S-L-LR, tube fed take-down rifle that my dad got at six years old. All of those were my dad's as a very young man and when I hold them I can feel the memories and excitement he had with them. There is just something magical about it for me. It might just be "Old Timer's" kickin in but I feel it just the same, even as a young man I felt their pull. I do have a Colt Combat Elite that I traded an early SiG P220ST for, but compared to Mr. Wilson's work, it is a 1911 want to be.

Here is some obligatory gun pR0n...

1932 Colt SAA Gen1 .45LC 7.5" "Rubber Blue". My dad got it at sixteen from his dad who owned a hardware store in upstate NY. It will go to my daughter to be passed on down:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3406/img0217large.jpg

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5871/img0107large.jpg

1928 Winchester 30-30 "Nickel Steel":

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2512/img0031large.jpg

Marlin .22 S-L-LR Pump:

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5201/img0044large.jpg

[Greg Bell]

Let us all once again consider how awesome it was for Kevin to build his own lightsaber in a war zone. :cool:

[TheTrevor]

Let us all once again consider how awesome it was for Kevin to build his own lightsaber in a war zone. :cool:

That... is an incredibly evocative and fitting analogy. Very nice.

[TheTrevor]

I still have not shot anyone with a handgun... It saddens me.

Sig material. I read this several hours earlier today and it stuck in my head.

[warpedcamshaft]

Sig material. I read this several hours earlier today and it stuck in my head.

Stuck in my head as well...

I remember talking to Paul Howe at CSAT last year... and he said people have asked him if he has every shot anyone with a pistol...

He said: "No, because no one ever made it past my rifle."

Burned in my memory...

[KevinB]

LMFAO.

Also, how did you get the time to build a 1911 overseas? And how were you allowed to carry a personal weapon?

Time is relative -- it took several weeks to get done.

Smart ass answer: clearly it was not a "personal weapon" it was a US Property 1911
--- I had a very liberal weapons policy...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/CarbinePerfection001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IraqBaghdad025.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3491.jpg


What can I say -- I like guns...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3432-1.jpg

[KevinB]

and the James Bond rig
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/Iraq013.jpg

Not a big fan of very short 5.56mm guns - but it fits easy under a man dress or fleece.

[warpedcamshaft]

Best... Thread... Ever...

[cclaxton]

For me, shooting lost its fun years ago. It's become something I have to do rather than something I want to do. Yet, my passion for the 1911 remains, even though I'm a hobbit that has no business shooting anything larger than 9mm. It seems my desire to shoot a .45 1911 outweighs my desire to win a FAST coin. :D
I recommend the Shoothouse Shootout at Academi in May, and shoot the 3Gun side match as well...Guaranteed to get your mojo back.
Cody

[Magic_Salad0892]

--- I had a very liberal weapons policy...

Was it "If you have it in your possession you can use it"?

[BLR]

Now that I'm thinning out my collection, I realize just how much I love this gun. The others were just guns. This one is special to me.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140314_155756_zpsrc9kfjuu.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140314_155756_zpsrc9kfjuu.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140314_155811_zpska39vc1a.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140314_155811_zpska39vc1a.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140314_155904_zpsvigioy0p.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140314_155904_zpsvigioy0p.jpg.html)

I don't care one little bit that it's full of MIM and has plywood grips. I don't care in the least little bit.

I like it better than my Supergrades, my Yosts, my Heinie, my Vickers, my Rogers. I like it better because I have over 60k through it, and can count the FTF/FTE on one hand. I like it because I learned how to be a decent shot with it. Cost me half, literally, what my latest CQB Elite cost.

I have history with that gun. I have some technically better guns. I have prettier guns. But none that I love more.

[SiGFever]

That is a very fine looking 1911 Sir.

[JHC]

When I shoot PRs with my Glocks I have unnatural affection for them. Is that sooo WRONG???? Pride of "ownership" only carries one so far. Until they hit the range?

[Magic_Salad0892]

When I shoot PRs with my Glocks I have unnatural affection for them. Is that sooo WRONG???? Pride of "ownership" only carries one so far. Until they hit the range?

My newfound love for metal framed SAO guns wouldn't exist if I didn't perform better with them. So I understand 100%.

[Vinh]

I don't care one little bit that it's full of MIM and has plywood grips. I don't care in the least little bit.

I like it better than my Supergrades, my Yosts, my Heinie, my Vickers, my Rogers. I like it better because I have over 60k through it, and can count the FTF/FTE on one hand. I like it because I learned how to be a decent shot with it. Cost me half, literally, what my latest CQB Elite cost.

I have history with that gun. I have some technically better guns. I have prettier guns. But none that I love more.
That's how I feel about my sole SA Pro. I've had better and worse, but ultimately, that gun just does it for me.

[KevinB]

This is why the 1911 is an enthusiast pistol.

It's like the M-14, entirely impractical in this day and age as an issue weapon, but people seem to have irrational attachment to them...

I love 1911's and BHP's (albeit custom guns).

[Trukinjp13]

Handled a mk25 today to the gun shop. It just gives me a big ol kitten eating grin! That is at the top of my bucket list. Do not care if it does not have a uber trigger or anything super fancy. It just has that IT Factor.

[Tamara]

I have history with that gun. I have some technically better guns. I have prettier guns. But none that I love more.

That's the way I feel about my pre-Series 70 rescue Colt. When I sold off all my 1911s but two* back in '07, I kept the Pro and that pound puppy of a Colt, because it was mine (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2005/10/boomsticks-silk-purses-from-sows-ears.html).


*Well, two plus the Sistema, but it doesn't count.

[ScotchMan]

I insist this thread not die.

[okie john]

I'll admit to having some passion for this one.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee68/okie_john/LeftI.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/okie_john/media/LeftI.jpg.html)

It got me out of a couple of tight spots over the years. I was wearing it when I proposed to my first wife, and when I married her. I was wearing it when I saw my son being born, and it's possible that I was wearing it when he was conceived.

And yes, the rear sight is welded to the slide.


Okie John

[SeriousStudent]

That is a beautiful pistol, Okie John. There is something about a well-used 1911 that never fails to bring a smile to my face.

[TCinVA]

Dat spur hammer, do....

[theJanitor]

That's a beautiful Colt!

[Trooper224]

This Colt was my off duty piece for the last ten years. With over seventy thousand rounds through it and a few parts replaced it still has plenty of life left in it. It's one of the last guns I'd ever think of selling. However, I've stopped using it due to back issues and have gone to a plastic fantastic for carry. As such, it mostly sits in the safe. My youngest son turns twenty one next year and is the only other real shooter in the family. I'm thinking of giving it to him on his birthday.
http://m5.i.pbase.com/o9/64/521964/1/152540735.8apHXSFG.1911mods002.JPG

[Drang]

Consider the "Like" button pressed.

[okie john]

Dat spur hammer, do....

I was young and too poor to afford a rowel-type hammer, so I had the smith clip the factory hammer. It's not beautiful but I wore that pistol every waking hour for 16 years, so I guess it worked out.


Okie John

[farscott]

This pistol means a lot to me as it was a constant companion for many years, was with me when I married, and was in my holster when I said goodbye to my father for the very last time. It has been refinished three times now, the BoMar rear is gone after I slammed the pistol into a door frame hard enough to break the corner of the sight blade, the Pachmayr MSH has been retired for a conventional steel one, and the magwell is now off the gun. It now wears one of the Harrison fixed sights for the BoMar cut with the same notch width as the original Bomar and has been finished with IonBond DLC.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/farscott/ColtCombatSpecial2.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/farscott/media/ColtCombatSpecial2.jpg.html)

[SeriousStudent]

farscott, I love those two-tone 1911's. Thanks for sharing the photo.

If I was on Bardstown Road right now, I'd buy you a glass of fine Kentucky Bourbon for posting that.

[Dagga Boy]

farscott, I love those two-tone 1911's. Thanks for sharing the photo.

If I was on Bardstown Road right now, I'd buy you a glass of fine Kentucky Bourbon for posting that.

I am down the road. I'll bring my two tone MARS Armament Colt 1911 retirement gun out next time you are at class.

[SeriousStudent]

Woot!! I'll bring Kentucky Bourbon - only to be consumed after class, with the appropriate cigar.

I used to have one of those Colt Combat Government Models that they released about 20 years ago, and loved it. I'll try and keep the drool off your MARS.

See you next month. :)

[farscott]

farscott, I love those two-tone 1911's. Thanks for sharing the photo.

If I was on Bardstown Road right now, I'd buy you a glass of fine Kentucky Bourbon for posting that.Just was on Bardstown Road this morning on my way to the office. Might need that Bourbon by this evening judging how the day is going right now.

[ScotchMan]

Beautiful guns and stories. I'm in year 4 of my carry career, and am a little disappointed to think that when I have a gun I've carried and shot that much, it will likely be one of these "plastic fantastics" that are referred to derisively. I don't even own an all-metal semi-auto. It's a little depressing to think about how things have changed and the days of 70,000 round 1911s are probably behind us. But I guess its a generational thing. I do feel attachment to my plastic guns for similar reasons as are being described here.

[45dotACP]

It's a little depressing to think about how things have changed and the days of 70,000 round 1911s are probably behind us. But I guess its a generational thing.

Being a 23 year old budding shooter, I'm just starting to break into SS division. Maybe my Caspian will hit 70k, but I guess that depends on how well I fit all the parts ;)

But as far as carrying goes, when that permit comes in, it's a G26 in my future. Generational differences notwithstanding, I just don't have the body type to carry a government model.

[okie john]

Beautiful guns and stories. I'm in year 4 of my carry career, and am a little disappointed to think that when I have a gun I've carried and shot that much, it will likely be one of these "plastic fantastics" that are referred to derisively. I don't even own an all-metal semi-auto. It's a little depressing to think about how things have changed and the days of 70,000 round 1911s are probably behind us. But I guess its a generational thing. I do feel attachment to my plastic guns for similar reasons as are being described here.

It's just progress. People felt the same way when pistols replaced swords, when DA revolvers bumped the Colt SAA, and when cops went to semi-autos instead of revolvers. Someday something will come along and make the G17 look classy.

I hope I don't live to see it.


Okie John

[psalms144.1]

Well, I have a long-runing and deep seated love affair with several handguns, in no particular order:

1. The 1911
2. The SAA
3. The Colt Python
4. The S&W 686
5. The HK P7M8

I'm lucky enough to have several of my "mistresses" in my gun safe. However, that's where they live except when I want to show off - the rest of the time it's a G19 on my hip, and a PM9 on my ankle. Just too much invested, time and training and accessory wise to make a switch, and if I "lost" one of those pistols to the evidence locker, it would be a hard, hard blow...

[Trooper224]

Being a 23 year old budding shooter, I'm just starting to break into SS division. Maybe my Caspian will hit 70k, but I guess that depends on how well I fit all the parts.

Thirty years with the 1911 taught me if one is afraid to turn a screw the design is best avoided. Recently, I did some work on a couple of 1911s. One was for a local deputy and the other belongs to a member of my Monday night shooting league. Both are younger guys who've come of age in the era of the fantastic plastic. It took me no more than fifteen minutes to get ether one running. In fact, it took longer to drive to the range for test firing than it did to fix them. However, for the two owners it was a frustrating experience. I equate a 1911 owner to a gear head. If you're the kind who enjoys working under the hood then you'll do fine with the 1911. On the other hand, if you're afraid to learn how to install an ejector or tune an extractor then you'd better avoid it, or have the funds to keep a gunsmith on retainer.

[Haraise]

It's just progress. People felt the same way when pistols replaced swords, when DA revolvers bumped the Colt SAA, and when cops went to semi-autos instead of revolvers. Someday something will come along and make the G17 look classy.

I hope I don't live to see it.


Okie John

I'm not sure about that... I started with pistols not too long ago, first two were plastic. Looking for a replacement I shot nearly everything and ended up loving a 1911 though I was so embarrassed to like such an old gun.

That old design has things to it that Tupperware doesn't, even for someone without nostalgia and actively biased against the platform.

[ScotchMan]

I'm not sure about that... I started with pistols not too long ago, first two were plastic. Looking for a replacement I shot nearly everything and ended up loving a 1911 though I was so embarrassed to like such an old gun.

That old design has things to it that Tupperware doesn't, even for someone without nostalgia and actively biased against the platform.

I agree, and that is why they are still so popular. Although, I do think guns such as the P226 SAO probably take a lot of wind out of its sails if we are being truly objective.

[Tamara]

I agree, and that is why they are still so popular. Although, I do think guns such as the P226 SAO probably take a lot of wind out of its sails if we are being truly objective.

Newer designs, with their heavier reliance on stampings, are less friendly to tinkering than the old ones. The 1911 is a very gearhead-friendly design.

Perhaps peripherally related: When I worked in a corporate flight department, pretty much everybody else there had motorcycles, too. In the late afternoon, the mechanics would be leaving and the pilots would be arriving, all the old Harleys would go rumbling out of the hangar and all the newer sportbikes and sport-tourers would come zipping in. These guys wrenched on big air-cooled pushrod engines for a living, and so playing with a shovelhead or panhead on the weekend was a sort of busman's holiday.

[45dotACP]

I equate a 1911 owner to a gear head. If you're the kind who enjoys working under the hood then you'll do fine with the 1911. On the other hand, if you're afraid to learn how to install an ejector or tune an extractor then you'd better avoid it, or have the funds to keep a gunsmith on retainer.

This. I used a 1911-from-scratch project as sort of a creative outlet to burn up time during a long, boring summer which I found myself with a lot of free time. Watching it come together sure was awesome. My glock 34 was my competition pistol, but now that I've built my own lightsaber so to speak, I feel like competing with it would only be that much cooler.

[Rich]

This is why I keep a couple of nonBUG .357mag wheelguns around, and .22 revolvers.


Just going out and shooting .22s at cans and dirt clods and hedge apple balls is so freaking zen.

Yes!!
I do have lots of fun shooting 38/357 revolvers.

[LSP552]

As an old retired guy, I find myself more drawn to shooting for fun. Just lazy I guess, but it's hard to be motivated to go shoot plastic. I'd much rather spend an afternoon with a 226R, my carry 239, a revolver, or a strictly play gun. I confess to still being a closet revolver guy. :)

Ken

[Haraise]

I agree, and that is why they are still so popular. Although, I do think guns such as the P226 SAO probably take a lot of wind out of its sails if we are being truly objective.

Can't be sure, I keep trying to find SAO Sigs around, but no one is carrying them. The 226 grip and trigger is awful big for my hands, so I'm not really their target anyway. 1911, slim grips and short trigger ftw.

[Tamara]

...it's hard to be motivated to go shoot plastic. I'd much rather spend an afternoon with a 226R, my carry 239...

See, that's a distinction I'm unable to draw; toaster parts are toaster parts, even if the shell is stamped steel and aluminum instead of plastic. I don't really get much more soul vibe from a Beretta or classic SIG than I do from, say, a USP or FNS.

[Dagga Boy]

As an old retired guy, I find myself more drawn to shooting for fun. Just lazy I guess, but it's hard to be motivated to go shoot plastic. I'd much rather spend an afternoon with a 226R, my carry 239, a revolver, or a strictly play gun. I confess to still being a closet revolver guy. :)

Ken

Let me change that for you.......

I am really a revolver guy, but I use a semi auto as a soulless disposable carry and training tool.

[LSP552]

See, that's a distinction I'm unable to draw; toaster parts are toaster parts, even if the shell is stamped steel and aluminum instead of plastic. I don't really get much more soul vibe from a Beretta or classic SIG than I do from, say, a USP or FNS.

Tam,

To dig a bit deeper, it's really about the trigger, MY accuracy potential, and just how it "feels". I've been able to drive Glocks relatively well, but I have to force my hand to fit them, as apposed to the 226 being an extension of my hand. Completely subjective on my part for sure, but it's harder to spend my time on something that doesn't excite.

Ken

[LSP552]

Let me change that for you.......

I am really a revolver guy, but I use a semi auto as a soulless disposable carry and training tool.

Yes!!!! Thanks for clearing that up.:)

Ken

[Tamara]

To dig a bit deeper, it's really about the trigger, MY accuracy potential, and just how it "feels". I've been able to drive Glocks relatively well, but I have to force my hand to fit them, as apposed to the 226 being an extension of my hand. Completely subjective on my part for sure, but it's harder to spend my time on something that doesn't excite.

I'm tracking now.

For me, there's a lot of gun nerd that goes into what I feel affection toward. (For instance, the little Mauser 1910 I've been coonfingering off and on for the past week or so has a machined steel magazine follower. That is just so... extravagant to my modern eyes. From the vantage point of today, it's completely over the top, like gold leaf toilet paper.)

[Chuck Haggard]

When I was in my first cav unit I was issued a 1911, not a 1911a1, a fer-reals 1911. Never got converted over to a1, flat mainspring housing, almost no beavertail, giant hook of a hammer that drew blood every time I shot it.... I tracked the serial number and Colts said it had been built in 1913.

It was indescribably badass for me to be carrying a gun that could have been used to shoot at Pancho Villa's men, and those of the Kaiser, and Hitler's......

[98z28]

When I was in my first cav unit I was issued a 1911, not a 1911a1, a fer-reals 1911. Never got converted over to a1, flat mainspring housing, almost no beavertail, giant hook of a hammer that drew blood every time I shot it.... I tracked the serial number and Colts said it had been built in 1913.

It was indescribably badass for me to be carrying a gun that could have been used to shoot at Pancho Villa's men, and those of the Kaiser, and Hitler's......

That's just cool.

[LSP552]

When I was in my first cav unit I was issued a 1911, not a 1911a1, a fer-reals 1911. Never got converted over to a1, flat mainspring housing, almost no beavertail, giant hook of a hammer that drew blood every time I shot it.... I tracked the serial number and Colts said it had been built in 1913.

It was indescribably badass for me to be carrying a gun that could have been used to shoot at Pancho Villa's men, and those of the Kaiser, and Hitler's......

Damn Cool Chuck! My issued pistol as an MP at Ft. Polk in 1974 was a WWII Remington Rand that looked brand new. Not near as cool as a Pancho Villa gun!

Ken

[Magic_Salad0892]

See, that's a distinction I'm unable to draw; toaster parts are toaster parts, even if the shell is stamped steel and aluminum instead of plastic. I don't really get much more soul vibe from a Beretta or classic SIG than I do from, say, a USP or FNS.

I don't know. For me, a SIG AND Beretta have almost as much soul as a 1911. Not quite there. But enough. As do S&W 3rd gen autos. It's a combination of being metal, feeling like a real gun, having good ergonomics, and having a hammer.

[LHS]

I'm tracking now.

For me, there's a lot of gun nerd that goes into what I feel affection toward. (For instance, the little Mauser 1910 I've been coonfingering off and on for the past week or so has a machined steel magazine follower. That is just so... extravagant to my modern eyes. From the vantage point of today, it's completely over the top, like gold leaf toilet paper.)

That's how I felt when I shot a Sterling. Magazine follower on rollers? It was like they took the basic MP18/MP28 design from the bottom of the economy basement (i.e. the STEN) and pushed it up to the penthouse. I've never felt an open-bolt SMG run that smoothly.

[LHS]

I don't know. For me, a SIG AND Beretta have almost as much soul as a 1911. Not quite there. But enough. As do S&W 3rd gen autos. It's a combination of being metal, feeling like a real gun, having good ergonomics, and having a hammer.


This. It just feels like a 'real' gun when you press trigger. When that hammer drops, it feels like a gun. (Though not so much for me with the 3rd Gen Smiths, they're a little mushy in that regard)

[BigT]

That's how I felt when I shot a Sterling. Magazine follower on rollers? It was like they took the basic MP18/MP28 design from the bottom of the economy basement (i.e. the STEN) and pushed it up to the penthouse. I've never felt an open-bolt SMG run that smoothly.
One of the coolest guns I've ever shot is a (afaik) factory suppressed Stirling. That is the gun all movie suppressors are recorded from.

[Magic_Salad0892]

This. It just feels like a 'real' gun when you press trigger. When that hammer drops, it feels like a gun. (Though not so much for me with the 3rd Gen Smiths, they're a little mushy in that regard)

I got to shoot a 3rd Gen Smith (5904) that was worked over by Novak. It makes my top 5 pistols ever.

[Haraise]

I got to shoot a 3rd Gen Smith (5904) that was worked over by Novak. It makes my top 5 pistols ever.

Curious how that worked. The third gen Smith is the only pistol that made me think I was shooting a rubber band gun, when the trigger 'broke.'

[StraitR]

Sorry for necro-bumping this thread, but I have to comment on this one. I've been reading this board for a long time, with bouts of busy life absences, finally joining in 2012. I come for the technical content as I always walk away having learned something. I have to say this has been the most enjoyable, nontechnical, thread I've read here.

Seeing all the Staff, SME's, forum regulars, and even the likes of Bill and Rosco come out and comment here, only confirms this topic weighs on everyone, whether we like it, admit it, or not.

Long story short(ish), I carried 1911's almost exclusively for the first 11 years of CCW, with a brief love affair with a P228, before changing to Glocks 8 years ago. Through tons of research here, I went through the crawl, walk, run phases of AIWB for the Glock through countless hours working with a SIRT bought just for that reason and Keepers concealment holster. I've enjoyed AIWB carry for all the advantages, and have continued to respect and fear for the clear disadvantages. I remember back in 2011 when I first read Todd's posting of the words, "If you fuck up you die", and I have never forgotten them. I learned here, and still practice, a hard break in the reholster cycle to include saying aloud "don't shoot yourself". For 2 1/2 years, I've continually enjoyed training and making strides, getting faster, and seeing the improvements.

For the last six months, I've steadily lost motivation to train, both at the range, and even at home. I came to the conclusion that I was uninspired by the Glock platform. Maybe Glocks really are boringly reliable? I've fought internally, as I felt I was just being lazy or juvenile about "needing" to enjoy my pistol to enjoy the training. My main hang up, is that I have enough respect for appendix carry and it's dangers, that I haven't felt comfortable carrying there since I've stopped being diligent in the training. I dug up an old RCS phantom, added some soft loops, and went back to carrying IWB at 3:00 about 4 months ago. Last month I finally said screw it, and decided to go back to my roots, in hopes of finding the passion again. I bought a new WC CQB Elite and sure enough, the passion came back and the pistol comes out daily for drills. I can't get enough of it.

I found this thread today, through a link in another PF thread, and I couldn't stop reading until I finished all 20 pages. I can once again walk away saying learning has occurred for me here on PF, and peace of mind instilled.

Thank you to all who chimed in.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7473/15805959812_126e3bc38f_c.jpg

[Haraise]

I've fought internally, as I felt I was just being lazy or juvenile about "needing" to enjoy my pistol to enjoy the training. My main hang up, is that I have enough respect for appendix carry and it's dangers, that I haven't felt comfortable carrying there since I've stopped being diligent in the training. I dug up an old RCS phantom, added some soft loops, and went back to carrying IWB at 3:00 about 4 months ago. Last month I finally said screw it, and decided to go back to my roots, in hopes of finding the passion again. I bought a new WC CQB Elite and sure enough, the passion came back and the pistol comes out daily for drills. I can't get enough of it.]

It's a sad existence to think giving up enjoyment makes you an adult. It's good to see another person getting past that... and it's not just about guns, either! :)

[JohnK]

Funny... 1911 = passion... ;)

[Trooper224]

Oh, a Wilson wasn't showing off enough, you just had to throw a Sebenza in there to? ;)

Very nice. I don't think motivation through passion can be overstated. It's a real key to human achievement.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Good decision IMO.

If you aren't doing the things you love, how are you going to love the things you're doing?

I write. Do I get equal joy out of writing about adventure travel and writing press releases?

And if no one is paying me to write press releases, guess how much of my time I'm willing to devote to that?


If you love the Wilson, rock the Wilson.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

[ToddG]

StraitR -- Awesome post and thank you for sharing it!

[Magic_Salad0892]

Glad to see this thread still around.

[El Cid]

I went through a similar phase. My agency provided weapon is the Glock. Being raised on and spending decades shooting Hi-Powers, 1911's, Sigs, HK's, I found the grip angle of the Glock horrible. I also suffered slide bite almost constantly. I hated the gun.

Wanting to maximize my chances of returning home after each day at work I tried very hard to get proficient with it and my other pistols stayed in the safe. I shot competitions with the Glock and started to enjoy them less and less.

Enter the Grip Force Adapter! A $20 piece of (genius) plastic. No more slide bite and it fixed the grip angle for me. I could now enjoy Glocks and even bought some just for that purpose. I get what some have posted about guns with soul and my new WC Beretta definitely gave me that sensation, as do a couple of Novak customized 45's in my safe. But the GFA is what brought my passion back to my daily carry guns.

[GJM]

I think there is passion "of" the gun, and I have regularly indulged in that. There is also passion "with" the gun, and I got that by (again) participating in USPSA competition.

[JHC]

I think there is passion "of" the gun, and I have regularly indulged in that. There is also passion "with" the gun, and I got that by (again) participating in USPSA competition.

+1 which is why I have $$$ tied up in some nice S&W revolvers I almost never shoot and when I do it's just like nostalgia city vs trying to shoot a 99 drill with a no dash Highway Patrolman. But it's the passion "with" the gun that is about "performance shooting" as Proctor calls it that is what motivates me every week. Because of that, I'm actually very attached to my Glock pistols.

[littlejerry]

I think there is passion "of" the gun, and I have regularly indulged in that. There is also passion "with" the gun, and I got that by (again) participating in USPSA competition.

Agree 110%. I used to lust after obscure C&R rifles(still do at times...) but competition changed my focus from ownership to use.

Occasionally I still get in an envious mood and seriously consider buying a new toy. I've found the best cure is going to a match. My focus shifts to "when can I get back to the range" rather than "when can I buy another gun"

[GardoneVT]

I view the idea of efficiency and passion as self-reinforcing compliments, rather then antagonists.

Realistically you're not going to practice much if its a chore-and demotivated practice isn't as effective as enthusiastic performance. On the other extreme, we can't haul around Remington R51s with RIP ammo because they look "artistic". Striking a balance between the two forces is something each shooter has to find themselves. Some folks go gaga for Glocks, others Sigs, others still CZs.

[1slow]

If your training gets to be too grim you will not stay with it as much as if you like some part of it.
You may train for grim situations but you must enjoy some aspect of your training to get the best results.
Enjoyment can come from performance, new gear or mastering difficult situations.

[EVP]

I get having a pride of ownership or having passion about a full house custom 1911 or a Bowen revolver that are built the way you desire.

For me a gun that has proven to be extremely reliable and just a downright workhorse makes it more special to me then what brand,type or what material it is made of.

[ToddG]

I think there is passion "of" the gun, and I have regularly indulged in that. There is also passion "with" the gun, and I got that by (again) participating in USPSA competition.

And how many different brands of guns have you announced to the forum were the gun in the past three years? :cool:

As Gardone pointed out, these two things (performance and enjoyment) aren't opposites. I absolutely love my Riehl SIGs but I'm ditching them because I cannot shoot them well right now.

[JSGlock34]

While I can't claim to have strictly followed the adage of 'Beware the man with one gun', I hewed fairly close to it for about 15 years. Since the late 1990s I have focused almost exclusively on the Glock 'platform'. I've owned and trained with just about every variety of Glock 9mm pistol, attended the Armorer's Course, and when I felt like venturing out I tried out a custom RMR pistol. I had a 1911 in the back of the safe that I occasionally shot to see what the fuss was about, but Glock dominated my practice schedule.

For whatever reason, last year I fell into a rut in my training. I decided to see if occasionally shooting a different handgun would rejuvenate my interest. One day I traded a seldom used rifle for a new Beretta M9 I saw in a local store. My service experience with the M9 had been a poor introduction and I had unfairly maligned the design ever since. But I suppose I had some nostalgia for a former issue weapon, so I decided to add one to the collection and dedicate some effort to learning to properly operate a DA/SA auto. I resolved to still carry my Glock, but the M9 frequently appeared in my range bag. And I found I enjoyed shooting it more and more. As a student of the pistol, I found developing proficiency with another kind of handgun with a very different manual of arms to be quite rewarding.

Still, the Glock was in little danger of being replaced by the M9 - I didn't care for the frame mounted safety and it lacked night sights. But the Glock monopoly was broken, and I decided to see if there was anything else out there that might replace it. I briefly experimented with the Walther PPQ, which I found both reliable and accurate, but ultimately decided to trade. A Heckler and Koch VP9 followed - and it has the distinction of being the only non-Glock pistol I've taken to a training class. Friends exchanged grim looks, claiming "We don't know who you are anymore..."

My Glocks remain my choice for the zombie apocalypse, but right now I'm having fun developing some skill with different handguns. And I'm pretty sure when I return to Glock, this period of experimentation will help me get past some performance plateaus. But I'm in no rush to get back to Glock as I recently acquired this...

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/Beretta_zps114eec88.jpg

[naza2004]

My passion truly began with starting in local club competitions this year. Coming from shooting indoors and having not knowing the challenges such as SHO/WO shooting on the move etc. made going to the range a bit dull.

The desire to improve in all areas (since I am not strong at any) has increase tremendously and reading this site regarding training drills (live fire and dry fire), trigger control, sight picture, and safety, has been exciting.

I also was a dabbler ( well still am to a degree) with different pistols trying to determine what would help me be the safest and perform the best. I now am working on consolidating to one platform and focus 2015 on one pistol.

Thanks Pistol-Forum members!

[Dagga Boy]

I think it is important to separate your "working/service" guns from enthusiast guns. It makes my brain much happier knowing that my soul-less polymer service pistol is just that, a disposable tool to carry everyday to use to protect me from evil things in the world. My revolvers, 1911's, P7's and the like are there for me to enjoy firearms and to understand how we got to where we are in the study of fighting with handguns. Now, I could carry any of my enthusiast guns in a minute and be fine, but I am having much more fun just enjoying them as a "passion" and they are also what I prefer to write about for the gun rags.

[Tamara]

Agree 110%. I used to lust after obscure C&R rifles(still do at times...) but competition changed my focus from ownership to use.

Here's a thought: Buy the C&R rifle. Put it in the safe. Pull it out every now and coonfinger it. Buy a copy of "Arsenal Markings of West Ossetian M1892 Mannlicher-Nagants" and research the history behind it. And keep doing your dryfire practice and range time with your actual shootin' iron. It's like you can do both!

http://i.imgur.com/UmpOi.gif

[LSP972]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/Beretta_zps114eec88.jpg

I assume that is the one they're offering ready to go? IOW, not work they did on a piece you sent them?

If so, can you compare the feel- trigger reach, overall grip size, etc.- to a regular M9/92FS? I seem to recall that Wilson did a bit of trimming here and there (possibly via the custom stocks?), making the grip more friendly to small hands?

.

[Rich]

I absolutely love my Riehl SIGs but I'm ditching them because I cannot shoot them well right now.

Im so sorry to hear that. I was so looking forward to the results of the long extractor sig?


Are you going striker or maybe a 1911 / P30S

BTW I hope you heal up fast.

[ToddG]

"Ditching" was probably the wrong word. Let's say I'm delaying their dedicated use for the time being with the hope and intention of picking them up again when possible.

Looks like it's 1911s in the immediate future.

[Lon]

Disregard

[Magic_Salad0892]

"Ditching" was probably the wrong word. Let's say I'm delaying their dedicated use for the time being with the hope and intention of picking them up again when possible.

Looks like it's 1911s in the immediate future.

:cool:

[45dotACP]

Hmmm, so are we talking the SACS/Warren 1911 or something more Heirloomey?
:)

[ToddG]

We'll see what Santa brings for Hanukah.

[JonInWA]

He comes whenever and wherever the sleigh crashes into Green-land and stuff falls off it...

Best, Jon

[StraitR]

I've been nice as hell this year, Santa better bring me a 1911 too, if he know's what's good for him.

[JohnK]

Santa made me buy my own...

[ToddG]

Santa made me buy my own...

It's a character building experience.

[JSGlock34]

I assume that is the one they're offering ready to go? IOW, not work they did on a piece you sent them?

If so, can you compare the feel- trigger reach, overall grip size, etc.- to a regular M9/92FS? I seem to recall that Wilson did a bit of trimming here and there (possibly via the custom stocks?), making the grip more friendly to small hands?

.

Yes, this is one of the Wilson Combat 92G Brigadier Tactical pistols. It arrived from the Beretta factory as pictured and has no additional work by Wilson Combat, though to some extent I'm regretting that I did not request the action tune prior to shipment. From a grip/trigger reach/hand size standpoint, it may be slightly slimmer than the 92FS thanks to the G10 grips, but I'm doubtful it is significant enough to make a difference if someone finds the 92FS overly large. It is really a M9A1 frame with a rounded trigger guard. That said, there are reports that Beretta is releasing the Vertec again before year end (http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=112176), and I think that is probably your best bet for a slimmer 92FS. Probably best to carry on further Beretta discussions in this thread (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?7408-Beretta-92-FS-Compact-(and-general-Beretta-love-lately)) or feel free to shoot me a PM.

[StraitR]

It's a character building experience.

What are you trying to say here Todd, that I don't deserve it?


JS - Nice looking blaster, I'd like to take one of those 92G's for a spin. I'd ask Santa, but Todd seems to think we need to buy our own stuff, to build character he says. Clearly he's out of touch with American entitlement.








- Sent from my Obama Phone -

[ToddG]

What are you trying to say here Todd, that I don't deserve it?

I don't know you well enough to say such a thing! I mean, I assume you don't deserve it but it's definitely not my place to say.


Clearly he's out of touch with American entitlement.

My wife would absolutely disagree with that description.

[Rich]

"Ditching" was probably the wrong word. Let's say I'm delaying their dedicated use for the time being with the hope and intention of picking them up again when possible.

Looks like it's 1911s in the immediate future.

You could go to a P30lS or P30S and after you heal up you can go back to DA shooting both P229R`S and P30S maybe take off the safety if it bothers you.

I bet you already have mags /holsters for the HK P30

I'm not much on 9mm 1911 . And the only 1911 I would buy is a Colt in 45ACP prefer 70 but 80 is fine.

[LSP972]

Yes, this is one of the Wilson Combat 92G Brigadier Tactical pistols. It arrived from the Beretta factory as pictured and has no additional work by Wilson Combat, though to some extent I'm regretting that I did not request the action tune prior to shipment. From a grip/trigger reach/hand size standpoint, it may be slightly slimmer than the 92FS thanks to the G10 grips, but I'm doubtful it is significant enough to make a difference if someone finds the 92FS overly large. It is really a M9A1 frame with a rounded trigger guard. That said, there are reports that Beretta is releasing the Vertec again before year end (http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=112176), and I think that is probably your best bet for a slimmer 92FS. Probably best to carry on further Beretta discussions in this thread (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?7408-Beretta-92-FS-Compact-(and-general-Beretta-love-lately)) or feel free to shoot me a PM.

Just what I needed to know. Thanks for helping me come to my senses...;)

.

[Malamute]

I came into an old Colt 22 conversion unit for a 1911 in a trade. I took it out the first evening and shot it in the yard in near darkness, I just didnt want to wait. I've been shooting it some every day since, it makes me smile, and I look forward to it. Been a while since I felt that way and had as much fun just shooting.

[JohnK]

It's a character building experience.

Hahaha!!! Well played... well... played...

[rob_s]

"Ditching" was probably the wrong word. Let's say I'm delaying their dedicated use for the time being with the hope and intention of picking them up again when possible.

Looks like it's 1911s in the immediate future.

Can you elaborate on this? or, will you?

[LittleLebowski]

Can you elaborate on this? or, will you?

Todd mentioned this in a recent blog post but his muscles have atrophied to the point that he cannot physically pull a DA trigger on his SIGs. He's building up quickly, though.

[cclaxton]

While Todd is waiting to get his pistol shooting back in order, this one comes with remote controls.
http://www.defensereview.com/hammer-remotely-operated-weapons-system-for-robotic-and-manned-vehicles/
http://www.defensereview.com/stories/moreindustries/HAMMER_088.JPG

[JonInWA]

Must have a rather interesting HUD for sighting...

Best, Jon

[GardoneVT]

Must have a rather interesting HUD for sighting...

Best, Jon

The system's likely worth more then the Dodge Durango its attached to.Makes a nice Christmas gift though.

[CSW]

So many great posts, great recollections.
I do get the whole 1911 passion thing, as they do have an air or mystique about them. Whether a warhorse, or fine quality new gun, they just do. In my shooting times I've had the privilege to own many, but have narrowed down to just two:
a 1918 1911, and a Kimber CDPII.

The warhorse is a Colt "black Army" pistol someone refinished long before I came to own it.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682422/22920671/411264088.jpg
The Kimber, a CDP II, that I bought broken, and even as a second owner, Kimber honored their warranty, and gave me a new frame fitted to my parts, Gratis.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682422/22920671/408438699.jpg

But what truly excites passion for me in a handgun is the Browning Hi-Power. Even more than the 1911, the P35 just does it. I've again owned several, but sadly only own an FEG clone that shoots incredible.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682422/22920671/411173040.jpg


No denying Glocks just work. They are like a Stanley screwdriver tho.....just a tool.

What a great thread.

[1986s4]

I've always liked doing things a little out of the ordinary and taking pride in doing them well. Competition is my thing and a pistol that allows me to feel good about doing my best is why I do it.
Lately I've been competing with a revolver and loving it. Courses of fire are more challenging with limited capacity and I love the challenge.

The Glock is more efficient but the fun is with forged steel.

[IanS]

I envy those who can throw impediments in order to make training more interesting or fun. But since I don't get to train as often as I'd like or as often as I should an instrument that gets me from point A to point B more efficiently is far more interesting than those that don't. Hence in my case my G17 does give me pride of ownership for what it does not what it is.

It doesn't mean I don't appreciate my 1911, Beretta 92FS, or revolvers. I keep them clean and oiled and take nice pictures of them from time to time. ;)