Carjacking: Tactics and Mindset.

[GardoneVT]

Having evaded a possible carjacking /robbery years ago, this is a subject with personal significance.

I recently watched a story about a set of carjackings , and in the first incident the four-deep set of thugs basically surrounded the driver as he stopped to drop off a friend. When he said "no", thug #1 started shooting and the victim was fatally hit.

Incident two was more ruthless. That time the same crew shot the driver at the outset at a 7-11 and took the car, which is how they got caught by patrol.

What tactics would ensure the best chance of survival for the citizen in this sort of ambush?

[Corlissimo]

An armored vehicle.

Yes, it's a very tongue in cheek answer but it's all I have. Those are some very dicey scenarios that don't present a lot of options that I can see, but I'm no genius in these matters so I'll be watching this thread for more meaningful answers than mine.


~ Typos brought to you by my lazyness & in attention to detail.

[Mike C]

I don't see how tactics could help you out of a situation where you are completely surrounded. Avoidance would be best in my mind. I.E. not stopping to let someone off near a side street or alley way where you might have a blind spot and someone can sneak up on you. Not stopping near a group of people to let someone out. Not stopping in a place where you can be boxed in or at an intersection where you might not be able to move quickly. I would also keep the vehicle in drive when letting someone off. Keep the doors locked, though that is obviously not possible if you are letting someone out.

Another alternative in my mind might be something like this. http://www.bulldogdirect.com/vehicle-protection. I am in no way associated, I just did a quick search for light ballistic protection on the web. The idea seems pretty solid. I guess the next question would be what is your budget? Doc what do you think about the product they offer, can anyone else elaborate on something like this?

I don't know the exact composition of the panelling but this is a small excerpt from their website, " 'FLEX-PRO 50"x41' Thermoformable Vehicle Armor Panels are a laminated composite armor fabricated from a vulcanized urethane 3000 denier aramid composite. FLEX-PRO Armor panels are semi-rigid, and have excellent multi-hit capabilities and will not bunch up or fall down during ballistic incidents or severe vehicle use. Flex-Pro Ballistic Panels are thermoformable, with the use of a heat gun these panels can be formed and bent into complex shapes and will retain these shapes."

Aramid composite is okay for vehicle use and will stand up to extreme temperatures correct? On the other hand I think laminated composites contain Zylon and is a no go but I am not an expert. Maybe this might be a viable option? I would be interested to hear what some of the SME's might have to say.

[breakingtime91]

Best thing I can come with is treat it as a close ambush scenario and the only thing you can do is fight through it and make a alot of noise (shooting your pistol and/or throwing it in drive or reverse and flooring it), only thing I can come up with.

[Joe in PNG]

Some things I try to do down here:
-Don't get boxed in. Try to leave enough room to drive out.
-Keep your doors locked.
-Remember that it is hard to shoot and hit someone in a car.
-Think ahead regarding possible parking locations. Lots of light and crowds is good.

[Chuck Haggard]

If they have you surrounded and say give up the car then "No" is the wrong answer. Get out, then maybe if you get a chance go for guns.


One thing I do often after dark is to not stop where I want to stop, I'll drive through and pull around the block and come in again before stopping. That let's me eyeball the area from a different angle while mobile.

Even with the dude who got straight up ambushed, if he had driven around the building, noticed "sketchy looking dudes" loitering around then he could have had the option of driving off and going elsewhere.

[1986s4]

"If they have you surrounded and say give up the car then "No" is the wrong answer. Get out, then maybe if you get a chance go for guns."
Chuck Haggard

Agree. If I can avoid a fight, even if armed, I will do so. They can have my '98 Honda Civic and the 180,000 miles it has if I can get away. I'll get out and back away, if they come at me that's something else.

There's a dude from Argentina who lived through the recent economic collapse [can't remember his name] who has advice on this subject.

[Malamute]

"If they have you surrounded and say give up the car then "No" is the wrong answer. Get out, then maybe if you get a chance go for guns."
Chuck Haggard

Agree. If I can avoid a fight, even if armed, I will do so. They can have my '98 Honda Civic and the 180,000 miles it has if I can get away. I'll get out and back away, if they come at me that's something else.

There's a dude from Argentina who lived through the recent economic collapse [can't remember his name] who has advice on this subject.

Ferfal.

He's had some long posts and series of posts on various forums, some of which went belly up. His comments are interesting, and good. He mentioned carjacking a couple times. It's been a while since I read them, but I think one of his thoughts is generally to never surrender, as the results of that have been profoundly brutal in many instances. Perhaps that was just my take away from it though.

He had mentioned brutal torture, rape and murder being fairly common. Not exactly the same situation we have here, but worth keeping in mind that complying doesn't mean you're left alone.

One carjack tactic used in Argentina was a van pulling up next to a car in traffic, the side door opens up and theres guys pointing guns at you. Many choose to fight, which turns into a running gun battle. He say a guy in a gun shop trying to trade his 357 revolver for an auto. He asked why, the guy said that after the first 6 shots in one such fight, it was too hard to reload while driving. That stuck in my mind. If carjacking is an issue, keeping a couple of the 30-something rd glock mags in the vehicle may not be a bad idea, along with a handful of regular mags. If you own them, you have to keep them somewhere.

[Chuck Haggard]

Ferfal.

He's had some long posts and series of posts on various forums, some of which went belly up. His comments are interesting, and good. He mentioned carjacking a couple times. It's been a while since I read them, but I think one of his thoughts is generally to never surrender, as the results of that have been profoundly brutal in many instances. Perhaps that was just my take away from it though.

He had mentioned brutal torture, rape and murder being fairly common. Not exactly the same situation we have here, but worth keeping in mind that complying doesn't mean you're left alone.

I was referring to compliance as a tactic.

If they have the drop on you, when they say "Get out of the car" then they are expecting you to move and get out, just saying "No" is a really good way to get shot sitting right there. Tom's one student that feigned compliance until he could get to his gun and ended up shooting both bad guys is a great example of what I am talking about.


Oh, and; http://ferfal.blogspot.com/search/label/Firearms

[Malamute]

Yes, I understood, but didn't know if everyone that read it may. I agree with you. That tactic worked quite well with the off duty guy that was robbed at gunpoint that was in the news recently.

Letting them take you with the vehicle would be a complication, or letting anyone in the house.

[ST911]

"Gas pedal" is a seriously underutilized avoidance, force, and escape option.

[feudist]

If they have you surrounded and say give up the car then "No" is the wrong answer. Get out, then maybe if you get a chance go for guns.


One thing I do often after dark is to not stop where I want to stop, I'll drive through and pull around the block and come in again before stopping. That let's me eyeball the area from a different angle while mobile.

Even with the dude who got straight up ambushed, if he had driven around the building, noticed "sketchy looking dudes" loitering around then he could have had the option of driving off and going elsewhere.

This.

Anticipate. Think like an alley cat.

Pre-plan actions for places you frequent. Familiar does equal safe.

Look up Malicia. It's a street smart mindset approach that is a byproduct of Capoeira (the Brazilian fight-dance game)

[Malamute]

An after the fact consideration, but I never ever have other keys on my vehicle key ring. I don't want to give them a key to my house, or even a key to the locking gas cap if they got my vehicle. Also never leave registration and insurance info in the vehicle, always in my wallet. Don't want to make it easy for them in any way.


Agree about the gas pedal. Leaving enough room ahead of you in traffic at lights to move, even a half car length makes it possible to maneuver. Watching the mirrors is good habit.

Good idea about doing a drive by before stopping.

[David Armstrong]

Having evaded a possible carjacking /robbery years ago, this is a subject with personal significance.

I recently watched a story about a set of carjackings , and in the first incident the four-deep set of thugs basically surrounded the driver as he stopped to drop off a friend. When he said "no", thug #1 started shooting and the victim was fatally hit.

Incident two was more ruthless. That time the same crew shot the driver at the outset at a 7-11 and took the car, which is how they got caught by patrol.

What tactics would ensure the best chance of survival for the citizen in this sort of ambush?
My carjacking response is rather simple: "Yes sir, here you go, no problem. Tank's a little low, here is an extra $20 for gasoline. Mind if I grab my briefcase? Thanks." Just don't see much sense in getting into a big mess for no real reason. I figure if we get into a shootout I'll have to put the car in the shop for repair or it will be taken for evidence anyway, so why mess with it.

[Chuck Haggard]

"Gas pedal" is a seriously underutilized avoidance, force, and escape option.

I mostly agree, although we have had some people locally get shot trying that in the wrong circumstances

[Alpha Sierra]

Surrendering is not an option in my book when the family is aboard. Fight or flight, but no one is getting out of the car then.

[GardoneVT]

I mostly agree, although we have had some people locally get shot trying that in the wrong circumstances

As is what happened in the case I discovered. The victim was shot as he tried to flee, and crashed into a house once he succumbed to his wounds.

The second attack didn't even last long enough to get that far. They started the encounter by shooting the driver as he got out of the car at the 7-11.

[baddean]

"Gas pedal" is a seriously underutilized avoidance, force, and escape option.
This, plus I've picked up various techniques over the years driving a delivery truck and riding a motorcycle, and taking my wife to work through some dicey ares that couldn't be avoided.
Learn to remove your seatbelt in a way that doesn't get you tangled up in it. Keep clothing cleared once in the vehicle so that you can easily get to your firearm. Keep a clear area in front of you if you have to move. I've told my wife when she drives home from her nursing job through said dicey areas that if she comes to a traffic light (late night and light traffic) that if there is a group of nerdowells gathered at the corner, run the light, especially in the summer when the gathering is easier for them.
Keep the doors locked. What part of that do some people not get? One of the best things the car manufacturers have done is lock the door above a certain speed.
Other suggestions here regarding awareness and avoidance are paramount as well.
Anyone can be caught off guard for any number of reasons. It's best to have a plan (at least something thought out ahead of time) whether alone of with your family, as to how you will react. Let your family in on the plan as well and have them know what to do.
I look forward to more suggestions here.
Good thread.

[KeeFus]

"Gas pedal" is a seriously underutilized avoidance, force, and escape option.

Yeap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p12aWbLNDRU

[TR675]

Yeap.

Jeez. I hope the officers were alright.

Man, nothing beats the muzzle energy of a 28,000,000 gr. squad car travelling at 30 fps.

[JeffJ]

Jeez. I hope the officers were alright.

Man, nothing beats the muzzle energy of a 28,000,000 gr. squad car travelling at 30 fps.

Does a PF of 840,000 make major?

[TR675]

Yeah, but it makes taping the targets back up a sonofabitch.

[JeffJ]

It's rough on the chrony too.

[Chuck Haggard]

However, like everything else, there is no sure one stop shot.

Sgt. Chapin of Chattanooga PD hit the scumbag that eventually murdered him with a CVPI hard enough to put him completely over the roof of the car. That didn't keep him from running and gunfighting effectively.

Just sayin.

[MDS]

Yeah, but it makes taping the targets back up a sonofabitch.

Also, I can't find the dies for my reloading press, and factory ammo is really high right now (stupid hoarders.)

ObOnTopic: I'm no expert, but I like Kathy's imperative to prescribe for yourself what lines you will not cross. Outside those lines, for me, is a situationally-dependent mix of wrath and prudence, within the context of what's legally defensible.

[Dropkick]

Keep a clear area in front of you if you have to move. I've told my wife when she drives home from her nursing job through said dicey areas that if she comes to a traffic light (late night and light traffic) that if there is a group of nerdowells gathered at the corner, run the light, especially in the summer when the gathering is easier for them.

I would think making a quick right on red could be a better choice.

[Erik]

I would think making a quick right on red could be a better choice.

It's not always an option. It's also not legal everywhere. Back in the day, when I lived in Newark, NJ, don't stop for a red light at night was SOP, and was the advice given to my wife by local police officers as well. Just slow down enough to make sure it's safe to proceed and drive on.

[Dropkick]

I would think making a quick right on red could be a better choice.


It's not always an option. It's also not legal everywhere. Back in the day, when I lived in Newark, NJ, don't stop for a red light at night was SOP, and was the advice given to my wife by local police officers as well. Just slow down enough to make sure it's safe to proceed and drive on.

Right, so rolling through red lights and stop signs is "more" legal? I suggested right on red for a couple of practical traffic safety reasons. First, you're not playing frogger with two directions of traffic. If you did get hit while making a right on red, it probably wouldn't be as bad as getting t-boned. Trust me, I understand going straight through, but as you said, "It's not always an option."

[BlueSky]

To the OP - in a recent class (GS 499) one of the simulators turned out to be a carjacking. Armed with a concealed airsoft I was placed in the driver's seat of a vehicle and told that I was stopped at a light and due to cross traffic, could not move. Then a person seeking help appeared on the passenger side. While I was distracted by this, an armed man appeared form the left rear, pointed a pistol at me and ordered me out. At this point, my rule # 1 kicked in: if threatened at gunpoint, comply and at the first opportunity shoot the assailant as needed. Also, for a couple of years now I have practiced vehicle dismounts using only my left hand to clear the seat belt and door, leaving my right available for other tasks. As I opened the door, the airsoft magically appeared in my right hand and shot the SWAT cop role-player 3 times before he knew it was happening. As I continued to exit, his partner on the passenger side shot me in the back.

Lessons learned: 1) They operate in packs. Deal with it. 2) My rule and technique are still good.

Two students survived. One had the gun in his hand, out of sight, when approached. In this situation, he knew something was coming but on the street, maybe not. The other who survived simply complied, exited the vehicle and walked away. On the street, maybe, maybe not.

As always, make decisions now about how you will act then.

[Chuck Haggard]

Legal "right on red" means you have to be, in almost all intersections I have seen, right next to the curb in the right lane. Being in the middle lanes gives you a buffer, if that is an option. Sum dood standing on a street corner and you are by the curb gives you zero reaction time, dood walking out into the street at least telegraphs what he is up to.

[KevinB]

I go left on red...



Key rules about fighting in a car, driver drives, unless car is not moving, or your FUBAR.

Shooting from a moving car is tough, shooting from a moving car your driving is extremely tough (but easier with a Red Dot on your pistol ;))

[LSP552]

I was referring to compliance as a tactic.

If they have the drop on you, when they say "Get out of the car" then they are expecting you to move and get out, just saying "No" is a really good way to get shot sitting right there. Tom's one student that feigned compliance until he could get to his gun and ended up shooting both bad guys is a great example of what I am talking about.


Oh, and; http://ferfal.blogspot.com/search/label/Firearms

^This

And I'm a believer in using the inside lane. This gives you gas peddle options into the opposing lanes (traffic dependent of course) and makes it much harder to box you in. Driving in the inside lane also increases your reaction time from seeing someone step off the curb.

Like most things tactical, awareness is key to keeping you ahead of the problem.

Ken

[Dropkick]

Legal "right on red" means you have to be, in almost all intersections I have seen, right next to the curb in the right lane. Being in the middle lanes gives you a buffer, if that is an option. Sum dood standing on a street corner and you are by the curb gives you zero reaction time, dood walking out into the street at least telegraphs what he is up to.

I was thinking one lane per direction at a four way intersection... which I should have mentioned prior.

[TCinVA]

Legal "right on red" means you have to be, in almost all intersections I have seen, right next to the curb in the right lane. Being in the middle lanes gives you a buffer, if that is an option. Sum dood standing on a street corner and you are by the curb gives you zero reaction time, dood walking out into the street at least telegraphs what he is up to.

You can't run the full MUC with a vehicle, but keeping the principles of a street encounter in mind when you're driving and seeking the same advantages behind the wheel pays off.

[ToddG]

I've risked a ticket more than once because something looked hinky on the street.

Also, I think folks forget just how loud a typical car horn is to people nearby outside of their car without the sound insulation and stereo running. It can be jarring. Simply laying on the horn for five seconds tends to get SO MUCH ATTENTION from everyone around you.

Obviously all situation dependent and especially location-dependent, but if you don't hang out in places where the random street denizens are going to root for the carjacker instead of you...

[Erik]

LOL I was thinking South Orange Avenue in Newark, late at night and with lots of smaller cross streets that go I don't know where but it's dark and scary down there, which I probably should have mentioned (and thought beyond). In my own experience, legal or illegal hasn't entered the calculation for me. I'd have been delighted to see Officer Friendly and explain to him why I ran the light, made an illegal red or whatever. In my earlier statement, I wasn't very clear with myself, even, why I wouldn't initially view right on red as a better, or as good as, option vs. simply going through the intersection. The two main reasons are, first, I want to keep going to my destination, not take a detour. This is typically a precautionary measure, not full-on evasive maneuvers, and it used to be a part of every day life. Second, and related, I don't know where that right is going to take me. Even if I am making an evasive maneuver, I may very well be worse off down there, situationally, and I'm certainly worse off by virtue of the fact that I don't know where I am any more. In almost every instance I've chosen to go through a light due to safety concerns, traffic has not been a real issue. It's been late at night or in an area that doesn't see a ton of daytime visitors. If I was living someplace like Argentina in economic collapse, my thinking and actions would likely change in this and any number of other areas. And if I am reacting to an actual shady-looking guy or group of guys, rather than my spidey sense, I'll choose whatever route looks best/least bad under the circumstances as they unfold at that time.

[Chuck Haggard]

You can't run the full MUC with a vehicle, but keeping the principles of a street encounter in mind when you're driving and seeking the same advantages behind the wheel pays off.

Exactly.


but if you don't hang out in places where the random street denizens are going to root for the carjacker instead of you...

Not long after I started working at my job I ended up going to dinner in KCMO, got screwed up in construction coming back and ended up dumped onto Prospect in the middle of the night. Stopped for the red light in front of a club that had a whole bunch of angry looking people out front that started eyeballing us like we owed them money, and an active fight around the side. My girlfriend reached under the seat for her gun as I checked both ways and busted the light.

It happens.

[TCinVA]

Not long after I started working at my job I ended up going to dinner in KCMO, got screwed up in construction coming back and ended up dumped onto Prospect in the middle of the night. Stopped for the red light in front of a club that had a whole bunch of angry looking people out front that started eyeballing us like we owed them money, and an active fight around the side. My girlfriend reached under the seat for her gun as I checked both ways and busted the light.

It happens.

Especially if you're on the road in unfamiliar turf. More than once I've ended up in "Indian country" by accident and I've taken some precautions to defend myself figuring that I'd rather explain a run red light or stop sign to a police officer than the use of hollowpoints.

This is especially true for modern times since a GPS based NAV unit doesn't have an "avoid the ghetto" route option.

[JV_]

This is especially true for modern times since a GPS based NAV unit doesn't have an "avoid the ghetto" route option.MS Patented it:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8,090,532.PN.&OS=PN/8,090,532&RS=PN/8,090,532

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2398562,00.asp

[Dropkick]

Only having one route to get between work and home / not knowing side streets, means you're not doing your homework.

[Erik]

Only having one route to get between work and home / not knowing side streets, means you're not doing your homework.

Assuming this was addressed to (or towards) me, I'll say this: If you know where every side street on a long main artery that goes through a really crappy town, including some really dangerous areas takes you, my hat is off to you and you have not only done your homework but gotten an A. I didn't when I lived in Newark for only a few years and I don't know where every street in the town I live in now goes either, even though I've lived here for going on 24 years (holy smokes!). The town I live in now includes some areas that I won't voluntarily go into. I won't be exploring them to find my best route in case of a car jacking attempt, period. The fact is, I'm not going to spend a lot of time exploring side streets on my main routes to and from work, now either. I don't think that's not doing my homework. I think that's living my life; a life in which I work a ridiculous number of hours in an office in a city that's 40 miles away from my house (which city I also don't know a whole hell of a lot about how to get around once you leave the beaten path because 98% of the time I spend in it is behind my desk). For much of the time I've been working, I've left home before it's light out and come back well after dark. For years, that left little enough time to see my kids while they were still awake, let alone explore the city, and weekends weren't that much better. The kids are older now, but the hours and time constraints haven't changed much. I have multiple routes I can take between the highway and work or the highway and home, but if I am forced off those routes in certain areas I may be lost (if I'm forced down a side street I've never had an opportunity to go down before) or I may be endangered, depending upon how bad the area is.

ETA: Apologies for something of a thread derail. I have nothing but admiration for anybody who IS able to do that level of homework, even if I sound a little defensive about it. Seriously.

[Chuck Haggard]

Something almost no one does anymore is seems is use or have on hand maps, like real paper that doesn't crash, get viruses, etc. I can get a lot of good work done with a map recon, and have worked easy go-arounds in the past on some serious highway issues.

That happened last week on the way to Rangemaster, hit a wreck scene driving in where all six lanes of 240 were blocked and we got dumped out on surface streets. Memphis in the middle of the night ain't a pace I wanted to get lost.

[1slow]

Hardcopy does not crash etc....

[Malamute]

Something almost no one does anymore is seems is use or have on hand maps, like real paper that doesn't crash, get viruses, etc. I can get a lot of good work done with a map recon, and have worked easy go-arounds in the past on some serious highway issues.

That happened last week on the way to Rangemaster, hit a wreck scene driving in where all six lanes of 240 were blocked and we got dumped out on surface streets. Memphis in the middle of the night ain't a pace I wanted to get lost.

Maps are often generally available at State rest stops or tourist info places, often for free. The basic road maps have the main streets of the cities, and in the west its good to keep National Forest maps of areas you go to or travel through.

Maps have also helped me avoid traffic and find simpler detours than posted. The National Forest maps give all the dirt roads in that district, which have helped me find some great camping, hunting and adventuring areas.

[Skaaphaas]

Over here carjacking is a major risk for all drivers. Volkswagen Golfs and Hilux trucks seem to top the lists.

The thing here are syndicates that have an order for certain vehicles with the carjackers. These jacked cars then go to neighbouring countries, or get stripped for spares for the black market.

This means they need the vehicle in fairly good nick. One defence is to crash the car. Ram the car in front or back of you, or run over a pavement (extra points if you run over the carjacker too). Insurance will cover the damage, but getting shot sucks.

If they do get the drop on you (which, let's face it, does happen), one of the best options is to engage the first one as you exit the car. Shooting the victim in the car happens less frequently as they then have to deal with the mess in the car. The problem is passengers, especially female, as these are normally taken with, with obvious consequences.

My view is that if it is only me, and I feel I can make an escape, I'll walk away without looking back. If my wife or child is in the car it is a game changer, and it will be one of those things that I'll have to win.

[tremiles]

My tactics: daily drive 2000 Saturn SL with manual steering, stick, slipping clutch. I'll be able to keep up on foot until the carjacker gets frustrated and bails.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Kyle Reese]

Over here carjacking is a major risk for all drivers. Volkswagen Golfs and Hilux trucks seem to top the lists.

The thing here are syndicates that have an order for certain vehicles with the carjackers. These jacked cars then go to neighbouring countries, or get stripped for spares for the black market.

This means they need the vehicle in fairly good nick. One defence is to crash the car. Ram the car in front or back of you, or run over a pavement (extra points if you run over the carjacker too). Insurance will cover the damage, but getting shot sucks.

If they do get the drop on you (which, let's face it, does happen), one of the best options is to engage the first one as you exit the car. Shooting the victim in the car happens less frequently as they then have to deal with the mess in the car. The problem is passengers, especially female, as these are normally taken with, with obvious consequences.

My view is that if it is only me, and I feel I can make an escape, I'll walk away without looking back. If my wife or child is in the car it is a game changer, and it will be one of those things that I'll have to win.

You lot need common sense gun control to prevent this sort of thing from happening.

[TCinVA]

I remember somewhere seeing a device meant to deal with the carjacking problem in SA. It was basically a flamethrower on each side of the car that would bathe both sides of the vehicle in intense flame for a few seconds. Not long enough to cook the clearcoat or damage the car...just long enough to cause horrific injury to a carjacker. I figure they probably banned it.

[JV_]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQbHnLSasfQ

[BobM]

Something almost no one does anymore is seems is use or have on hand maps, like real paper that doesn't crash, get viruses, etc. I can get a lot of good work done with a map recon, and have worked easy go-arounds in the past on some serious highway issues.

That happened last week on the way to Rangemaster, hit a wreck scene driving in where all six lanes of 240 were blocked and we got dumped out on surface streets. Memphis in the middle of the night ain't a pace I wanted to get lost.

I gave a road atlas to my daughter a year or two ago. Her husband didn't think they needed it since they have a GPS but it's helped them out a couple times.

I also think it's a good idea to know some alternate routes between, say, home and work. I've been amazed while directing traffic around crash scenes at the number of people who've lived in my area for years who don't know how to get home from work if their main route is not available (I'm in a semi-rural area and there aren't that many choices to be aware of_I could see it being more complicated in a more urban area)

[Casual Friday]

In 2012 I worked for 7 months on an Indian reservation in a town 61 miles from home. I had alternate routes, and protocols about only filing up with gas etc in the morning on my way to work versus at night when it was dark.

[Skaaphaas]

You lot need common sense gun control to prevent this sort of thing from happening.

I mostly read the "marksmanship" forum. To get tips on controlling my gun :-)

I'm not familiar with US suburbs, but a very popular carjacking MO here is to box the victim's car in while he is in his driveway. Most of us have electric gates to our properties as this negates the necessity to get out of your car to manually open a gate, which is risky (although most people have them due to laziness!). People often get into the habit of waiting in front of the gate, in the driveway, for the gate to open far enough to enter. Carjackers simply have to park their vehicle perpendicular to yours in the road, accomplice jumps out and forces victim out of the car. Victim cannot drive forward or backwards as he's boxed in.

Solution is simply to wait in the road while the gate opens, that way they'll need at least two cars and quite a bit of manuevering to box you in.

Another "preventative measure" is to look at stationary vehicles as you approach your house. If you can't see the headrests of empty seats, it probably means the seat is let down to allow someone to lie down and thus hide from casual view. Any such vehicles are treated with caution and it's better to rather drive to the cop shop or get the private security company on the line than to think "I'm just paranoid, it's probably nothing."

Anyway, luckily for me I've never been in a carjacking, although I have drawn my pistol in what I thought to be an attempted one. I think BigT on this forum has a story of a carjacker and a fortay to the jacker's face.

[Mr_White]

I've risked a ticket more than once because something looked hinky on the street.

As I ran the red light and drove away from the guy that stepped off the curb and was headed toward my wife's passenger side door in downtown Portland at 4:30am, I had visions of fighting a ticket in court under the Lesser of Two Evils doctrine. I figured it would be amusing whether I won or lost. Fortunately, no red light camera at that intersection.

[justintime]

Fill your windshield wiper tanks with something painful and angle them to squirt towards where someone would be standing while trying to get into your car. :p I think getting boxed in from a car hitting you from behind would be the hardest to counter. Most scenarios you could drive away from them before the car jackers could close distance- if you give yourself an exit. One thing to note is to protect your front end around the wheels. Nothing makes a car more useless than losing a corner

[ssb]

Is there a consensus on what to do when you're approached while you are stopped?

I was approached while at a drive-in fast food place. I'd placed my order and rolled my window up. As I did so, a guy who I'd noticed while ordering (shabby, seemed to be hanging around rather than ordering) noticed this. He seemed to be of the opinion that I had rolled up my window because of the presence of "the big, scary n-----" (his words, not mine). He began shouting at me and moved around the front of my car. One of his hands was free, the other was in a pocket. I smashed the "lock" button several times, as things no longer seemed right. I then fumbled around trying to turn my car on, I guess figuring that I'd reverse out of the stall if I had to. As I was doing so, he sped up and had reached my passenger door and started trying to get it open. I stopped screwing with the keys and went to draw my gun. The draw (seated, appendix) was sloppy and definitely needs work. The gun came up, he sees this happening, I shout "BACK THE F--- OFF RIGHT F---ING NOW," and he takes off running. I watched him run, waited, lowered the gun, and then placed it under my thigh.

From the time he first called out to me to the time he ran was maybe five-ten seconds, tops. I went to call the police and then realized that I'd left my phone at home. Nobody around me seemed to have noticed what went on; nobody was freaking out, the girl delivering my food came out as everything was normal, nobody else started running, nobody seemed to have called the cops. I called it in once I got to a phone, gave a written statement, and they had me look at some photos of who they think it was (he is apparently a known person to them, has pulled this stuff before). I asked repeatedly about whether I had been right to draw on him. I was repeatedly assured that, under my state's castle doctrine (extends to vehicles), I was legally covered. Advice from a lawyer friend earlier today confirmed this.

What could I have done better? I can't help but feel that I handled that poorly.

One thought was to leave the car on when parked. Having said that, what about reversing? I would have had no clue if I was clear behind me (I did not want to take my eyes off of him). I would not have been able to move forward where I was at.

The other is that I should have been more alert. I feel like I should have seen him earlier than I did, but either I didn't or he wasn't enough for me to take a note of. I guess the correct course of action would be to come back later or pick another restaurant?

Finally, thoughts on going to my gun when I did? Really looking for honest criticism here.

[GardoneVT]

Is there a consensus on what to do when you're approached while you are stopped?

I was approached while at a drive-in fast food place. I'd placed my order and rolled my window up. As I did so, a guy who I'd noticed while ordering (shabby, seemed to be hanging around rather than ordering) noticed this. He seemed to be of the opinion that I had rolled up my window because of the presence of "the big, scary n-----" (his words, not mine). He began shouting at me and moved around the front of my car. One of his hands was free, the other was in a pocket. I smashed the "lock" button several times, as things no longer seemed right. I then fumbled around trying to turn my car on, I guess figuring that I'd reverse out of the stall if I had to. As I was doing so, he sped up and had reached my passenger door and started trying to get it open. I stopped screwing with the keys and went to draw my gun. The draw (seated, appendix) was sloppy and definitely needs work. The gun came up, he sees this happening, I shout "BACK THE F--- OFF RIGHT F---ING NOW," and he takes off running. I watched him run, waited, lowered the gun, and then placed it under my thigh.

From the time he first called out to me to the time he ran was maybe five-ten seconds, tops. I went to call the police and then realized that I'd left my phone at home. Nobody around me seemed to have noticed what went on; nobody was freaking out, the girl delivering my food came out as everything was normal, nobody else started running, nobody seemed to have called the cops. I called it in once I got to a phone, gave a written statement, and they had me look at some photos of who they think it was (he is apparently a known person to them, has pulled this stuff before). I asked repeatedly about whether I had been right to draw on him. I was repeatedly assured that, under my state's castle doctrine (extends to vehicles), I was legally covered. Advice from a lawyer friend earlier today confirmed this.

What could I have done better? I can't help but feel that I handled that poorly.

One thought was to leave the car on when parked. Having said that, what about reversing? I would have had no clue if I was clear behind me (I did not want to take my eyes off of him). I would not have been able to move forward where I was at.

The other is that I should have been more alert. I feel like I should have seen him earlier than I did, but either I didn't or he wasn't enough for me to take a note of. I guess the correct course of action would be to come back later or pick another restaurant?

Finally, thoughts on going to my gun when I did? Really looking for honest criticism here.

It's remarkable how fast the kitten hits the fan,isn't it? To think, some people are OK with being unarmed because LE has a "five minute" response time......

[EMC]

I was thinking one lane per direction at a four way intersection... which I should have mentioned prior.


I mostly read the "marksmanship" forum. To get tips on controlling my gun :-)

I'm not familiar with US suburbs, but a very popular carjacking MO here is to box the victim's car in while he is in his driveway. Most of us have electric gates to our properties as this negates the necessity to get out of your car to manually open a gate, which is risky (although most people have them due to laziness!). People often get into the habit of waiting in front of the gate, in the driveway, for the gate to open far enough to enter. Carjackers simply have to park their vehicle perpendicular to yours in the road, accomplice jumps out and forces victim out of the car. Victim cannot drive forward or backwards as he's boxed in.

Solution is simply to wait in the road while the gate opens, that way they'll need at least two cars and quite a bit of manuevering to box you in.

Another "preventative measure" is to look at stationary vehicles as you approach your house. If you can't see the headrests of empty seats, it probably means the seat is let down to allow someone to lie down and thus hide from casual view. Any such vehicles are treated with caution and it's better to rather drive to the cop shop or get the private security company on the line than to think "I'm just paranoid, it's probably nothing."

Anyway, luckily for me I've never been in a carjacking, although I have drawn my pistol in what I thought to be an attempted one. I think BigT on this forum has a story of a carjacker and a fortay to the jacker's face.

This reminds me of "Tell me and I will forget" documentary on netflix about paramedics in Johannesburg. Excellent film to get an idea of what you guys deal with.

[ssb]

Is there a consensus on what to do when you're approached while you are stopped?

I was approached while at a drive-in fast food place. I'd placed my order and rolled my window up. As I did so, a guy who I'd noticed while ordering (shabby, seemed to be hanging around rather than ordering) noticed this. He seemed to be of the opinion that I had rolled up my window because of the presence of "the big, scary n-----" (his words, not mine). He began shouting at me and moved around the front of my car. One of his hands was free, the other was in a pocket. I smashed the "lock" button several times, as things no longer seemed right. I then fumbled around trying to turn my car on, I guess figuring that I'd reverse out of the stall if I had to. As I was doing so, he sped up and had reached my passenger door and started trying to get it open. I stopped screwing with the keys and went to draw my gun. The draw (seated, appendix) was sloppy and definitely needs work. The gun came up, he sees this happening, I shout "BACK THE F--- OFF RIGHT F---ING NOW," and he takes off running. I watched him run, waited, lowered the gun, and then placed it under my thigh.

From the time he first called out to me to the time he ran was maybe five-ten seconds, tops. I went to call the police and then realized that I'd left my phone at home. Nobody around me seemed to have noticed what went on; nobody was freaking out, the girl delivering my food came out as everything was normal, nobody else started running, nobody seemed to have called the cops. I called it in once I got to a phone, gave a written statement, and they had me look at some photos of who they think it was (he is apparently a known person to them, has pulled this stuff before). I asked repeatedly about whether I had been right to draw on him. I was repeatedly assured that, under my state's castle doctrine (extends to vehicles), I was legally covered. Advice from a lawyer friend earlier today confirmed this.

What could I have done better? I can't help but feel that I handled that poorly.

One thought was to leave the car on when parked. Having said that, what about reversing? I would have had no clue if I was clear behind me (I did not want to take my eyes off of him). I would not have been able to move forward where I was at.

The other is that I should have been more alert. I feel like I should have seen him earlier than I did, but either I didn't or he wasn't enough for me to take a note of. I guess the correct course of action would be to come back later or pick another restaurant?

Finally, thoughts on going to my gun when I did? Really looking for honest criticism here.

Also, one more thing re: gun handling in the car.

As stated, I felt my draw was sloppy. I think it had to do with the way the gun was canted into my body (was using a JMCK AIWB) -- it wasn't vertical. That may be a posture issue, I'm not sure.

Once I got the gun into play, I began turning to face the guy in my seat (seatbelt was off). I'll preface this with stating I've never gone through ECQC or any other force-on-force training (though it's on the list -- waiting for a SN class within a reasonable distance). As I turned, I brought the gun to what Southnarc/Gomez/Others describe as a "2" position (gun at pectoral, as opposed to pressed out). Proper for inside a vehicle? Given that he had not yet gotten inside the car, would pressing out and getting my sights been better?

[JM Campbell]

As you'll learn in ECQC transitioning from 2-3-4, if it was a true #2 you might have been sweeping your legs in a seated position. Something to think about.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[ssb]

As you'll learn in ECQC transitioning from 2-3-4, if it was a true #2 you might have been sweeping your legs in a seated position. Something to think about.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

The gun was oriented vertically. It wouldn't have been a "true" 2, then.

[JM Campbell]

#2 pistol is thumb indexed to high pectoral muscle and muzzle angled downward. In clinch this translates to a belt line/lower torso impact zone on adversary.

If I'm tracking you right, it sounds like you drew to a compressed #3, and did not extend out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[ssb]

http://i.imgur.com/EWHbapA.jpg

Don't know if that helps. Gun was unloaded for the picture, etc.

[Wendell]

This video is related to the OP, but perhaps what is most significant about it is what is not discussed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek50iqNOfus#t=272

(And I don't mean purses and fanny packs.)

[Rosco Benson]

Also never leave registration and insurance info in the vehicle, always in my wallet. Don't want to make it easy for them in any way.

This. Have NOTHING in your vehicle with your name or address on it. No service receipts, no NOTHING. A good friend of mine had his vehicle broken into in the parking lot while attending a gun show. The thief got his Glock 23 and his Kahr P380 back-up (he left them in the car because the gun show prohibits loaded guns). There was also mail, service receipts, and so forth, with his name and address on them. He spent a few weeks on pins and needles due to the thief having this information and knowing where to, most likely, find more guns to steal.

Likewise, if your car is broken into in long-term parking at the airport, the thief will have your address and will figure there's a good chance your house is unoccupied. He'll probably figure that since you're flush enough to fly, you might have some neat stuff to steal at home.

Bear in mind too that carjackers or car thieves are going to end up with your garage door opener. If you are taken out in the carjacking, they might just grab your wallet and house keys too (even if they're on a seperate ring). Now, even if you take the precaution of routinely keeping the door from the garage into the house locked (as you should), "Dad is home" can quickly turn into a perfect home invasion.

We had a local incident that, while not an exact fit, bears sharing. A young couple went to a rock show. The husband left his keys and wallet hidden in the car, out of concern for losing it in the venue. The car and the wallet were stolen. The creep who stole the car liked the photo of the couple's 4-year-old son so much, that he hatched a plan to go to their home, with a bag of sex toys and a shotgun and sodomize the boy. Some days later, he showed up. The husband, who was away working one of his three jobs, had changed the locks. The creep booted the door and tied up the wife in the kitchen. He then took the boy to another room to molest him.

While this was going on, the wife managed to get loose and armed herself with a kitchen knife. She attacked the creep and injured him superficially. He disarmed her, sliced her up, and then killed her with the shotgun. He then fled with the boy.

Along the way, the creep got spooked in a highway rest stop and abandoned the boy. The boy was found wandering, the State Patrol was called, and the boy told them that a bad man had hurt his mommy. At 4 years of age, he knew his address. Police were dispatched and the investigation began.

Some excellent police work resulted in the creep's capture. He took a plea that gave him life without parole to avoid the possible death penalty. I think the proscecutor offered the deal because the creep was deaf and when he spoke he sounded mentally challenged. He wasn't, but a jury might subconciously think he was unable to be held to normal standards.

He got all religious while he was in our jail. Last refuge for a monster, I suppose. THIS is what we're up against people. Don't ever forget that.

http://crime.about.com/b/2009/01/16/indictment-reveals-details-of-ohio-home-invasion.htm

Rosco

[SeriousStudent]

I hope the Devil has an extra bag of coal for Myers to hold in his lap, when he shows up for his final reward.

And I hope that happens sooner, rather than later.

[Tamara]

I'm suddenly not minding the walk from the garage to the house anymore.

[LHS]

I had an incident when I was just out of college that was similar to some of the above. I was returning some movies to ye olde Hollywood Video next to ASU's main campus, around 10:30pm (mistake #1). I parked right under a sodium light in the parking lot, but it blocked me from pulling forward, leaving reverse my only way out of the spot (mistake #2). When I got into the truck and fired it up, a late-model red Honda Civic (or some similar vehicle) pulled behind me and blocked my exit. Alarm bells went off like mad in my head as the door opened and a young, blonde woman got out and nervously approached my truck. My AC was busted, so I had the windows down (mistake #3), and she came right up and asked if I wanted to buy any perfume. WTF, selling perfume to random strangers in a poorly-lit parking lot at 10:30pm? At this point I'm on pins and needles, trying to split my attention between her and my rear-view mirror to see if any of the at least three dudes in the car get out. I figured the girl was a distraction, but there was the possibility she was an actual threat. I told the girl I wasn't interested in any perfume, and that just made her more desperate. She launched into a poorly rehearsed spiel, since I had zero justification to draw my pistol thus far, I put the truck in reverse and held the clutch in. I cut her off with "Get that kittening car out of my way or I'm going to put my bumper all the way through the kittening thing." She jumped, skittered back to the car, and then they all burned rubber and peeled out of the parking lot and into the side street.

A few days later at the monthly IDPA match, I mentioned this to one of the local cops who was competing. He said "Dude, you got interviewed for a carjacking." Apparently it was a known MO at the time, and I managed to scare them off. It made me take a little more time to gauge where and how I parked, and take more account of my surroundings when doing so. I figured nobody in the world would want to jack a rusty old '86 Ford Ranger, but apparently I was wrong.

[Malamute]

You brought up a good point. If someone blocks you in, it doesn't mean you can't move, it means your going to do serious damage to both vehicles, but you can indeed move. I was thinking of that in regards to an earlier point, where jackers would block people in at their gate in South Africa. I'm pretty sure I can move many vehicles with a Suburban, or even a smaller 4wd truck if need be. Once the game is exposed, I figure its all fair game at that point.

[Chuck Haggard]

Locally we would have way fewer home burglaries if people wouldn't leave garage door openers in their cars.

Ref using your car as a weapon, an oldy but goody;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xc8nT67XaE

[pablo]

The bump and rob is gaining popularity again in my area. The robbers will give the victims car a slight rear end bump at a red light or stop sign. When the victim gets out the robbers take the car at gunpoint. Most of this has been thug on thug crime, but occasionally targets mid and high end cars that can't be stolen without the keys (or a tow truck).

Had a guy and girl (very pretty girl at that) that were running a car jacking scheme for a while. She'd pull to the side of the road, put on her hazards, stand outside the car in skimpy clothes and wait for someone to stop. If she wanted their car, she'd signal her boyfriend, who was hiding in the backseat of their car, and he sneak out and do the car jacking. They ended up shooting a cartel guy on a car jacking and meet a very unpleasant end.

Inertia fuel pump switches found in most newer cars can limit the amount of ramming you can do. When some scumbag rear ends you and totals your car, and he flees because he doesn't have a license or insurance, his fuel pump will still work. On the flip side of that, if you're trying to ram your way out of a road block, it'll probably cut out.

The front sheet metal bumpers on trucks are pretty flimsy. In minor crashes they get pushed into the front tires and can disable the truck.

[Malamute]

Inertia fuel pump switches found in most newer cars can limit the amount of ramming you can do. When some scumbag rear ends you and totals your car, and he flees because he doesn't have a license or insurance, his fuel pump will still work. On the flip side of that, if you're trying to ram your way out of a road block, it'll probably cut out.

The front sheet metal bumpers on trucks are pretty flimsy. In minor crashes they get pushed into the front tires and can disable the truck.

Any idea when the inertia fuel pump switches became common?

I often have a front guard on my vehicles. More for animals so they don't leave me stranded with a mashed radiator out in the middle of nowhere (on the way home from town can qualify in that regard), but may help some in staying running if one needed to move something blocking their way.

[UNK]

Yes, I understood, but didn't know if everyone that read it may. I agree with you. That tactic worked quite well with the off duty guy that was robbed at gunpoint that was in the news recently.

Letting them take you with the vehicle would be a complication, or letting anyone in the house.
As I understand it never never ever allow yourself to be taken to crime scene two. That's where rape and slow murder take place.

[Will_H]

As far as I know, they are common in EFI Fords and a few others (MG, Jag, etc.) usually located in the trunk, or under the dash for the trucks. Chrysler, GM, Volvo, etc. use engine rotation to cut the fuel, and not an inertia switch.

Source: http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/301nprm/index.html

[LHS]

Had a guy and girl (very pretty girl at that) that were running a car jacking scheme for a while. She'd pull to the side of the road, put on her hazards, stand outside the car in skimpy clothes and wait for someone to stop. If she wanted their car, she'd signal her boyfriend, who was hiding in the backseat of their car, and he sneak out and do the car jacking. They ended up shooting a cartel guy on a car jacking and meet a very unpleasant end.


A friend of mine got hit by one of these about 15 or 20 years ago on a rural highway in West Virginia. Woman stranded on the side of the road, hood up, and two kids in the back seat. He stopped to help, and the two 'kids' rolled out of the car. They were full-grown men with ball bats. Buddy drew his CCW piece, a .32 Seecamp, and intimidated them into getting back into the car and driving off. After that, he started carrying a Commander instead and the Seecamp sat in the safe.

[Chuck Haggard]

One, most of the fuel cut-off switches I have seen work from the car getting hit from the rear. I have not seen a car disabled by a cut-off from a front end impact. Not that airbags and such wouldn't be an issue.


Two; yeah, had the attempted car jacking thing almost happen to me and my dad during a road trip, I was 12 at the time. We stopped to help, he had me hand him the pistol from under the seat, as he got out of the truck two dudes came running out of the tree line towards us.... They chose poorly that time.

[Rich]

If they have you surrounded and say give up the car then "No" is the wrong answer. Get out, then maybe if you get a chance go for guns.


One thing I do often after dark is to not stop where I want to stop, I'll drive through and pull around the block and come in again before stopping. That let's me eyeball the area from a different angle while mobile.

Even with the dude who got straight up ambushed, if he had driven around the building, noticed "sketchy looking dudes" loitering around then he could have had the option of driving off and going elsewhere.

That's because you are street smart Chuck.

I know its saved my butt a time or 2.

Hell at my age I don't go out at night unless I have to.

[Malamute]

One, most of the fuel cut-off switches I have seen work from the car getting hit from the rear. I have not seen a car disabled by a cut-off from a front end impact. Not that airbags and such wouldn't be an issue.


I may be inclined to have a bypass on one of those switches. Using the rear of a vehicle may be useful or preferred. I'd hate to be dead in the water so to speak over a switch shutting off the fuel when the vehicle should otherwise be functional.

I think I've been either "interviewed" for jacking or robbery a couple times, or asked to help get a stolen truck going in one instance. They didn't have a good answer when I asked why they didn't call the rental company to get their rig going when broken down at a rest stop,...down the ramp a ways, at night. They really really wanted to get it going themselves, with whatever help they could find. I wouldn't climb up to look at the carb and try to see why it wouldn't run. They may have figured out why I went to my truck before going to theirs to have a look.

[Rich]

A friend of mine got hit by one of these about 15 or 20 years ago on a rural highway in West Virginia. Woman stranded on the side of the road, hood up, and two kids in the back seat. He stopped to help, and the two 'kids' rolled out of the car. They were full-grown men with ball bats. Buddy drew his CCW piece, a .32 Seecamp, and intimidated them into getting back into the car and driving off. After that, he started carrying a Commander instead and the Seecamp sat in the safe.

The kid that wreck his bike and lying in the middle of the street.

I was lucky and spotted the 2 BG hiding and peeking to see as I was pulling up.

[Alpha Sierra]

I stop for no one, dead, alive, or somewhere in between.

[MDS]

Last week, a dude at a remote trailhead said his car got broken into while he was running. Fed me a story about how he wanted to run with the fewest keys possible, so he left the ignition key in the car and just took the door key with him. Thieves took keys, wallet, phone. I cut my hike short and gave him a ride into town to get his spare ignition key, and back, 40 minutes each way. I let him use my phone to cancel cards & etc. Now we trade info on good trails in the area. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, but so far it just looks like I made a friend. Maybe his accomplices are waiting for me top drop my guard.....

(I'm just saying, by all means keep your wits about you, but sometimes it's nice to lend a hand when you're able.)

[MDS]

Double tap

[Malamute]

(I'm just saying, by all means keep your wits about you, but sometimes it's nice to lend a hand when you're able.)



I'm with you, best for everyone.

I stop to see if people need help. Once, I stopped, the guy asked if I had a 1/2" wrench. I did, it was all he needed, he was able to get going again fairly easily. Have stopped and helped a 70-something year old lady with a flat, helped put a vehicle fire out once (donated my extinguisher to the cause), helped change a number of tires, gave a ride to a girl walking in a blizzard when her car went off the road. We went and got her car pulled out and on the road. She wants to go shooting once the weather gets warm. Once I was broke down, not a good place, had a blowout on a ramp in a city late at night. I couldn't get the lugs broken loose. A mex dude, sort of wild looking stopped. Between us, we managed to get the lugs broke loose.

Yes, keep your wits about you, but I still don't mind helping.

[Wendell]

Last week, a dude at a remote trailhead said his car got broken into while he was running. Fed me a story about how he wanted to run with the fewest keys possible, so he left the ignition key in the car and just took the door key with him. Thieves took keys, wallet, phone. I cut my hike short and gave him a ride into town to get his spare ignition key, and back, 40 minutes each way. I let him use my phone to cancel cards & etc. Now we trade info on good trails in the area. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, but so far it just looks like I made a friend. Maybe his accomplices are waiting for me top drop my guard.....

(I'm just saying, by all means keep your wits about you, but sometimes it's nice to lend a hand when you're able.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHmw6PQZZcY

[Irelander]

I just read this article from ITS Tactical yesterday. Good information.

http://www.itstactical.com/intellicom/physical-security/lifesaving-tips-to-prevent-a-carjacking-and-not-become-a-victim/

[Rick Finsta]

Very early on a Saturday morning (around 0400) I had to drive into work in Milwaukee, which took me through an okay-but-not-great-neighborhood. At one stoplight, there is a man wearing unseasonably heavy clothing (not out of place in the area, really) leaned up against the gas station's tall sign with the prices on it. As I am slowing to stop, I see him look around and crane his neck and lean over to look down the cross street - at this point the hair on my neck stood up, so I listened and slid my hand under my lunch bag on the passenger seat and retrieved the only gun I carried at the time (CCW was still illegal here in WI) which was a little .22lr (a Walther P22 - Tam, don't hate me). Right after I came to a stop, he walked rather briskly towards the car, and I made direct eye contact. He said "yo, I wanna talk to you right quick, man. I wanna talk to you right quick" as he approached the passenger side window, and with his right hand in a coat pocket, he moved his arm towards the door handle. I retracted my arm so he could see the pistol and said something like "will this be a civil conversation?"* He replied with some variation of "yo, it's cool, man. We cool" as he backed away, and then turned and started slowly started walking down the street. The light was already green and someone was honking for me to move by the time I stopped watching him walk away.

First, I should have just run the light. I was already illegally carrying a firearm (a low level misdemeanor), what is a traffic infraction?
Second, I learned what tunnel vision meant. As soon as he started walking towards the car I was focused on him and only him. When he reached for the door handle, I honestly don't remember seeing anything else but him until the car behind me honked its horn and snapped me out of it.

I got really lucky that either he didn't mean me harm and was just super nonchalant about having a gun pulled on him, or I got really lucky that he was alone, undetermined, and had a self preservation instinct. I don't know, but after that and a few "interviews" while I was leaving concert venues with my wife, I started taking self defense with a firearm a lot more seriously. I still get a weird cold feeling when I think about hearing that horn honk - I was still shaking for quite some time after I got to work.

*Somehow I don't think I vocalized anything that suave. It was probably more like "Wrrrrrrgarrrbblllll?!"