I can't believe I'm asking this: shipping to CA

[Totem Polar]

My search-fu must be pretty weak, since I couldn't unearth a previous thread on the topic; bear with me.

Deal is, a friend of mine really wants my Ruger SPNY. He's in Palo Alto and I most assuredly am not. Anyone here in a position to advise? My friendly LGS/FFL respects me enough as a customer to apologize first and laugh out loud second. :p

Is getting him the wheelie doable from out of state?

TIA, P-F, I appreciate the thoughts.

[Savage Hands]

Unless it is on California's roster, probably not.

[klewis]

I think that it has to be 1.) on the California Roster http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ , or 2.) a gun that can be "modified" temporarily for the Single Shot Exemption(SSE), i.e. a semi auto that the dealer has a long barrel custom made for, with no way to feed from the magazine. Yes, that's a thing in California. The gun is sold with the special barrel in, then "brought to a gunsmith for modification" back to the original, factory configuration.

There may be a way around these requirements for a private party transfer or gift, but you'd have to hit CalGuns to find the info. Do not expect your average FFL in the state to help you with half this stuff, they have lists of cued in FFLs on CalGuns.

Cali is messed up!

[Savage Hands]

I think that it has to be 1.) on the California Roster http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ , or 2.) a gun that can be "modified" temporarily for the Single Shot Exemption(SSE), i.e. a semi auto that the dealer has a long barrel custom made for, with no way to feed from the magazine. Yes, that's a thing in California. The gun is sold with the special barrel in, then "brought to a gunsmith for modification" back to the original, factory configuration.

There may be a way around these requirements for a private party transfer or gift, but you'd have to hit CalGuns to find the info. Do not expect your average FFL in the state to help you with half this stuff, they have lists of cued in FFLs on CalGuns.

Cali is messed up!


I doubt any dealer will have the setup to SSE that revolver, the shop I worked at did a ton of SSE and not one revolver.

Sideshooter does not live in the state of California so private party transfer is out unless they are immediate family.

[Savage Hands]

Does the revolver fall under this?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=441766

Roster exemption summary/clarifications (single-shot pistol/single-action revolver)


Per 12133PC, certain handguns are Roster-exempt. These include:

Single-action Revolvers, capable of holding 5 or more rounds, with 3” minimum barrel length and 7.5”
minimum overall length when assembled.

Single-shot Pistols, with 6” minimum barrel length, and a minimum overall length of 10.5” when assembled.

(lengths measured parallel to bore)
[Some folks casually and mistakenly conflate categories: there's simply NO “single-action exemption” - otherwise all 1911s & Browning Hi-Power pistols would be automagically Roster-exempt! The single-action revolver exemption applies to revolvers only. Similarly, there’s no “single-shot revolver” exemption either!]

Handguns not ordinarily considered single-action revolvers nor single-shot pistols may be converted to such status for regular resale by CA FFLs as 12133PC Roster-exempt handguns.

After a Californian completes the required forms/background check, and leaves the FFL 10 days later with his new handgun, he's then free to modify his new gun into any other legal form. Specifically, he may wish to convert his newly-acquired single-action revolver back to double-action status, or convert his new single-shot pistol back into multi-shot, magazine-fed status. The individual may decide to turn around and reenter the gunshop and have his FFL dealer assist him with gunsmithing services to swap parts.

“Category crossing” should be avoided not only to skirt definitional drama, but because the dimensional & parts-availability issues favor a DA revolver being converted to a Roster-exempt single-action revolver far more gracefully than into a Roster-exempt single-shot pistol – and this generally avoids revolver barrel mangling, too. (The converse is rather obvious: pistols are far more easily converted to single-shot pistol status than into single-action revolver status!)

Use of drop-in parts to modify a handgun does not require an 07 FFL (i.e., a “manufacturing FFL”). Also, while 12125PC has murky wording related to importing “unsafe handguns” for sale, California FFLs are allowed to freely import non-Rostered handguns for prospective LEO sales - and handguns rendered into Roster-exempt status are legal for resale to ordinary Californians too. Note the 12133PC exemptions includes the controlling phrase, “The provisions of this chapter do not apply…”.


Modifying a handgun into another legal handgun configuration is legal.

There are no laws restricting an individual or gunsmith from changing an owner’s handgun in one legal configuration to any other legal configuration. (Regardless of its Roster status or Roster exemption: the Roster is really just a gating function to resale.)

Changes to caliber, barrel length can be made, along with rimfire / centerfire changeovers, conversion between single- & double-action status, and conversion between single-shot vs. repeater status, etc. [However, conversion to any of various prohibited firearm categories such as 12276/12276.1PC 'assault weapon', or short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, unconventional pistol, etc. must all be avoided! Both Federal and CA laws must be observed.]


California “Roster-exempt” status is NOT achieved without proper “dimensional compliance”.

Whether or not the handgun is already categorized as single-action revolver or single-shot pistol, if the barrel and/or overall lengths (or if under 5 round cylinder for revolvers) are incorrect for that particular 12133PC exemption, then it’s simply not Roster-exempt.

[Certain single-action revolver variants called “Sheriff’s model” or “Storekeeper”, having under-3” barrels (typically ~2.75” long), do NOT qualify as Roster-exempt single-action revolvers. However, such guns may be separately Roster-exempt if they separately fall into the C&R/antique category, which will not be discussed here.]


The “single-action revolver” Roster exemption does NOT mean “it looks like a cowboy gun” (Colt SAA, Ruger Vaquero, etc).

There are no California statutory/regulatory definitions of “single-action revolver”. Nevertheless, this term is understood across the industry to define revolvers requiring the user to perform a separate cocking action, followed by separate trigger pull action, to fire a chambered round. It does NOT mean the gun 'looks like a cowboy gun'.

[What particular user action causes the cylinder to revolve is immaterial to this definition and varies by revolver architecture. Differences between the “loading gate” design common to cowboy-style Colt SAA-pattern revolvers vs. the swing-out cylinder/yoke assembly implemented on modern revolvers are irrelevant as to actual single-action status.]

Of particular note, Smith & Wesson shipped some Model 14-3 revolvers in single-action configuration in the 1970s; given their size, they are Roster-exempt. These revolvers look like modern double-action revolvers but require the separate, independent cocking and firing actions of single-action revolvers. (In this particular gun, the cylinder rotates due to the trigger pull, not hammer cocking – differing from Colt SAA-pattern revolvers, where the cocking action is the one that rotates the cylinder.) ]

Double-action revolvers – depending on brand, model and internal architecture – can be converted to single-action operation by simple parts removal, usually involving the “D/A sear”. [Care must be taken to not damage the revolver’s finish and knife-edge sideplate contours in such work; proper “gunsmith” hollow-ground screwdrivers must be used to not damage screw heads.]

Removal of the “DA sear” from S&W revolvers’ internal lockwork renders single-action operation; this is likely applicable to Taurus and Rossi revolvers as well (not verified). (There are reliable reports that similar work can be done to modern Colt double-action revolvers such as Pythons also.)

Those performing such work should ensure, after parts removal and reassembly, that the revolver will indeed be safe to operate (especially regarding passing several “hammer push off” tests), and that the gun indeed operates ONLY in single-action revolver mode and CAN'T operate in double-action mode. The gun should otherwise operate normally, safely, and reliably to “pass the smell test” as a useable handgun.


The “single-shot pistol” Roster exemption does NOT mean the gun has to look like a T/C Contender, etc.

“Single-shot pistol” status is neither defined in statute nor regulation. It is understood across the industry to mean the handgun, as it stands, can only contain and fire one round. Any reloading of the gun involves the user having to manually load another round stored somewhere else in a position that cannot feed into the chamber.

The only storage capacity in a 12133PC Roster-exempt single-shot pistol should be in its chamber: the gun as a whole must have a maximum capacity of one round. To achieve this status, a zero-round magazine is typically affixed to gun, or the magwell can be blocked from accepting any magazine-like devices and preventing any ammo from entering into chamber.

A zero-round magazine can either be a dummy “blue gun” training/filler magazine, or a regular magazine whose follower travel is blocked to zero round capacity. (The follower of such a magazine may need to “float” a bit to allow graceful slide movement.) Another alternative – especially on AR-pattern pistols – is to use a “sled” normally designed to work with longer rounds (80gr VLDs.)

Whatever zero-round magazine/filler is used, it should be locked in place with some sort of screw-down or “maglock” device replacing the magazine release button, such that a user cannot manually drop the magazine and must use a tool. (This also keeps the gun outside of 12276.1PC assault weapons status for guns such as AR/AK pistols.) This could be as simple as a recessed Allen screw & nut in a 1911, or a junked mag catch cut down so far that a tool is needed to push it in. The famous BulletButton and RaddLock devices common in CA-legal AR/AK rifle & pistol implementations also serve well in these guns.

[One unique implementation involves using long grip screws penetrating thru the magazine well into the screw bosses of the opposite grip panel. No magazine can load in such a pistol, nor can ammo feed from inside. Care should be taken such that ammo cannot enter and fall into the chamber if gun held upside down.]

Achieving dimensionally-compliant Roster-exempt single-shot pistol status may be harder or easier and depend on the make/type of pistol, and cost/availability of spare barrels. For typical pistols, several inches of steel pipe (whose inner diameter is wider than the caliber!) can be welded to the barrel end to get the min. 6” barrel length. Close inspection should be made to ensure safe conditions (concentricity/linearity of bore across both segments, no internal bore obstructions, etc.). In other cases, long aftermarket barrels are already available – specifically, for 1911-style 45ACP pistols.

Permanence of attachment of any required barrel extension is needed to achieve the required 6” minimum single-shot barrel length (otherwise, it's considerable as separate barrel and separate extension). However, any additional length needed to get to the 10.5” min. overall length doesn't (in theory) need to be permanently attached.

Generally, for AR/AK-style pistols – and other pistols of similar caliber and “magazine-forward” topology – the minimum compliance lengths are already achieved, and no barrel modifications are necessary..

[N.B. Note that barrel length should stay under the 16” boundary – this is to avoid any risk of crossing outside defined “handgun” territory and avoiding related SBR complications when attempting to return to handgun status.]


Roster-exempt handgun conversions can be used to avoid face-to-face PPT requirements, and function as a workaround to Roster issues when the seller/supplier doesn't hold a California ID.

DOJ BoF is (illegally) requiring source parties in PPTs to have CA IDs. Transferring a Roster-exempt handgun via a CA FFL avoids this PPT requirement since the gun can transition through CA FFL regular inventory.

Note that transfer fees are no longer the state-mandated PPT amount and can be whatever the FFL dealer chooses to charge - since PPT rules are not applicable.

Rendering a handgun into 12133PC Roster-exempt status also allows it to be shipped & transferred across California to another Californian’s local FFL, without the owners having to meet at the FFL at the same time, etc.


Roster-exempt conversions must be “safe and sane.”

Any conversions shouldn't result in dangerous situations (i.e, such poor attachment of barrel extension there are bore obstructions ) – and shouldn't result in a gun really only usable once or twice at best (i.e., you cut your hand extracting spent rounds, etc.)

Extended barrels' bores need checking for free movement of a caliber-specific test rod. Revolvers need checking for instances of dangerous “hammer push-off” (a wise test on any gun with exposed hammer anyway!)

Roster-exempt conversions should produce a repeatably usable handgun not presenting danger to either the user or those nearby, and must “pass the smell” test as a rational, useable handgun.

[TheTrevor]

The usual method for getting revolvers in on exemption is to render them single-action only, as noted in that big block-o-text above. In this case, you'd need a skilled Ruger revolver 'smith to render then gun SA-only in a reversible manner AND swap in a spurred hammer. At this point you would still be faced with the problem that the barrel is too short, specifically it is shorter than 3 inches.

I don't think that gun is coming to CA anytime soon. Sorry.

[Totem Polar]

Solid info, folks, I appreciate it.