New Project - P35

[BLR]

Recent manufactured P35 MkIII.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_104921_zpseherdbcc.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_104921_zpseherdbcc.jpg.html)

Pretty typical, nice slide to frame fit. Some heavy tool marks in places where they don't help...

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_104936_zps8quccwkf.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_104936_zps8quccwkf.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_104942_zps9vwbaqlt.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_104942_zps9vwbaqlt.jpg.html)

Little bits.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_110846_zpsfvacuyds.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_110846_zpsfvacuyds.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_110855_zpsdbwiyvhk.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_110855_zpsdbwiyvhk.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_110908_zpsz6v84ayg.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_110908_zpsz6v84ayg.jpg.html)

Well, at least the sear doesn't have mold lines on it.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_111930_zpswk5c4q6l.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_111930_zpswk5c4q6l.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_111941_zpshvp3dabh.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_111941_zpshvp3dabh.jpg.html)

That's a beefy hammer. Just sayin'

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_112013_zpspyna3xgp.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_112013_zpspyna3xgp.jpg.html)

And it's not as nice as the SIGs.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_112114_zpszv8hcb4h.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_112114_zpszv8hcb4h.jpg.html)

The mill marks.

[BLR]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_112214_zpsujxewzpk.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_112214_zpsujxewzpk.jpg.html)

Nothing pretty about that.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_112254_zpsxxg2nm1v.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_112254_zpsxxg2nm1v.jpg.html)

Hmmm. 2 Piece barrels of different vintage. Anyone see the difference?

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_112303_zpssdi0ujb5.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_112303_zpssdi0ujb5.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_112310_zpsedujvodf.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_112310_zpsedujvodf.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_112323_zpsdqtbbaqw.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_112323_zpsdqtbbaqw.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_112405_zpsajhzggit.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140220_112405_zpsajhzggit.jpg.html)

More to follow, at a much slower pace than Todd's SIG.

[Matt O]

Should be a very interesting project Bill, thanks for taking us along.

Do the vertical markings on each barrel indicate where the two pieces join? If so, interesting that it was moved forward on the newer barrel, along with creating the ramp up to the barrel feet. Doing so would appear to reduce the stress on the barrel foot, correct?

[ToddG]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_104921_zpseherdbcc.jpg

Can't wait to see the grip safety installed in the BHP. Taking things to a whole new level, Bill! :cool:

[orionz06]

JMB's finest pistol is about to get Riehl.

[BLR]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140220_104921_zpseherdbcc.jpg

Can't wait to see the grip safety installed in the BHP. Taking things to a whole new level, Bill! :cool:

You laugh. That grip safety is now in two pieces.

[Don Gwinn]

I'm not sure what I'm looking at on the barrels. It looks like the older one (I assume the one with the intact barrel lug* is the new one) has much sharper, 90-degree machining underneath, with a lot less material and sharper transitions. It kinda looks like the barrel lug* got sheared off . . . maybe partly because of stresses that came from that older style? It also looks like the chamber underwent a *big* change--to aid feeding? To add support? Both?
I don't know nothin' 'bout no Hi-Powers, but I know what I like.

*This term brought to you by Google.

EDIT: I cross-posted with Matt, but this is kinda what I was trying to say without having the vocabulary to do it. I think I had the right basic idea, but still managed to miss the big picture a little. SOP.

Do the vertical markings on each barrel indicate where the two pieces join? If so, interesting that it was moved forward on the newer barrel, along with creating the ramp up to the barrel feet. Doing so would appear to reduce the stress on the barrel foot, correct?

[ToddG]

You laugh. That grip safety is now in two pieces.

I didn't think it was randomly sitting there on your bench.

I also note the small drop of virgin blood from the vial in the upper right corner and assume it's no random addition, either. :cool:

[Jaywalker]

I'm looking forward to this one - I've had mine since 1981.

[JonInWA]

Bill, rumor has it that FN has introduced one or two polymer components into the mix on recent-production Hi Powers-any confirmation of this vis-a-vis your detailed tear-down, and how you anticipate they'll affect reliability/durability?

Best, Jon

[BLR]

Bill, rumor has it that FN has introduced one or two polymer components into the mix on recent-production Hi Powers-any confirmation of this vis-a-vis your detailed tear-down, and how you anticipate they'll affect reliability/durability?

Best, Jon

Nothing on this, or any of my GPs are plastic.

What'd they change?

I'm staring at the Warner ignition and extractor parts right now. Pics asap. I really like them.

And anyone shooting a GP should have one of his flat bottom firing pin stops in their gun.

[Magic_Salad0892]

I'm still considering a Hi-Power project of my own. So this thread has my interest. I'll have to look at the Warner ignition parts.

Bill, will this be a full custom build project documented here?

[WilsonCombatRep]

I am giddy with breathless anticipation.

[Clobbersaurus]

Couldn't have picked a better new project. Will be following this thread closely. :D

[warpedcamshaft]

Hi-Powers just fascinate me... The history of groups like SAS and FBI HRT with the Hi-Power is really interesting.

I was able to fire my first Hi-Power late last year, and found the experience extremely interesting...

I'm really enjoying these threads... First class content for sure.

[JAD]

I've been toting mine in a brand new Shaggy lately.

[Chefdog]

Both this thread, and the 229 thread, make me wish I'd stayed in engineering school. This stuff is fascinating to me, and these threads are addictive. Thanks for letting us follow these projects and providing such detail and explanation.

[Dave Williams]

[QUOTE=warpedcamshaft;202326]The history of groups like SAS and FBI HRT with the Hi-Power is really interesting. [QUOTE]

Yes me too. There's a great thread on HRT P35s on M4C.

[BLR]

3 types of barrel: New KKM (gorgeous rifling, btw), new 2 piece, and old 2 piece

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085120_zpsielqppnf.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085120_zpsielqppnf.jpg.html)

Note the variations in the lower foot? I have yet to see a "new" 2 piece break a foot off.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085126_zps2gawhplc.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085126_zps2gawhplc.jpg.html)

3 types of FPS. Chuck Warner flat bottom, Warner billet, and factory MIM.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085135_zps8nrqcmgq.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085135_zps8nrqcmgq.jpg.html)

3 types of sear - left to right, factory cast, C&S, and Warner.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085208_zpsau4dfjfp.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085208_zpsau4dfjfp.jpg.html)

From another vantage.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085216_zpsjjc8hm5g.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085216_zpsjjc8hm5g.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085243_zpsugo0u1k3.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085243_zpsugo0u1k3.jpg.html)

Warner rowel vs C&S rowel (C&S is black)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085249_zpszpyyx5b0.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085249_zpszpyyx5b0.jpg.html)

Extractors:

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085351_zpskx487hjw.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085351_zpskx487hjw.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085354_zps9ywnikys.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085354_zps9ywnikys.jpg.html)

Warner on the left, factory on the right.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085403_zpsewpsixlq.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085403_zpsewpsixlq.jpg.html)

Thumb safety, C&S and factory ambi

[BLR]

More barrel pics:

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085521_zpsot56nzqo.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085521_zpsot56nzqo.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085548_zpsffqkeebi.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085548_zpsffqkeebi.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085554_zpsfmvh2ihu.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085554_zpsfmvh2ihu.jpg.html)

What P35 sights should look like.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085639_zpsmhacysd3.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085639_zpsmhacysd3.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085453_zpst2mnka4n.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085453_zpst2mnka4n.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140221_085502_zpsqjjnexxm.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140221_085502_zpsqjjnexxm.jpg.html)

[Tamara]

I didn't think it was randomly sitting there on your bench.

♪♫ I know why it's the-ere. ♪♫ :cool:

Are you going to weld or silver solder, Bill?

[BLR]

Weld.

Definitely.

Though, I might bail on that tang. Now that I've got it apart, I'm not sure I want to use it.

ETA: I might not have SIG parts laying around, but I do have 1911 and P35 parts laying around.

[ToddG]

Yes me too. There's a great thread on HRT P35s on M4C.

Link?

[Padwan]

He might be referring to this thread from '07

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?9613-Hostage-Rescue-Team-BHP

[JonInWA]

Nothing on this, or any of my GPs are plastic.

What'd they change?

I'm staring at the Warner ignition and extractor parts right now. Pics asap. I really like them.

And anyone shooting a GP should have one of his flat bottom firing pin stops in their gun.

Reportedly the magazine disconnect shoe on new production Hi Powers is now made of plastic/polymer.

Best, Jon

[JHC]

The two Mk IIIs I shot the heck out of in the '90's were superb. I didn't do anything to them and I found the triggers perfectly serviceable. They were as reliable as anything I've ever owned. When I found myself struggling with the reset on them after resuming 1911 and then Glock shooting; I parted ways with them both. I try not to think about that too much.

[Tamara]

Weld.

Definitely.

Though, I might bail on that tang. Now that I've got it apart, I'm not sure I want to use it.

That one in particular, or just bailing on the beavertail altogether?

(I brought up the silver solder thing because of Frank James' comment in this post (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2014/01/stop-hammer-time.html). It sounded kinda 'urban legend-y', but not worth arguing over at the time. I know gun store lore is down on the newer High Powers because they've been south of the Pyrenees and you know what that does to steel... :D )

[BLR]

Welding velveeta is typically easier/more successful (from this frame of reference) than welding the harder cast steel in the MkIII.

Re Pyrenees: *golf clap*

I really don't dig on TIG welding P35s. Too much heat. Way too much.

[Jaywalker]

Bill Riehl: I'm staring at the Warner ignition and extractor parts right now. Pics asap. I really like them.

And anyone shooting a GP should have one of his flat bottom firing pin stops in their gun.
Bill, why is it important to have a flat bottom firing pin stop in a P-35?

[Jaywalker]

Is it this: http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Firing-Pin-Stop-70-Series-Square-Bottom-Bullet-Proof-Blue/productinfo/399B%2C70SQ/

Slightly oversize, this rugged, tool steel firing pin stop will prevent excessive extractor movement and is left square on the bottom to help tune your slide’s recoil to your preference.

Use a small bevel on the face of the stop for heavier loads, more bevel if you tend to shoot lighter loads.

This part will require light fitting.

[BLR]

Bill, why is it important to have a flat bottom firing pin stop in a P-35?

Flat bottom FPS act to shorten the lever length the slide has in cocking the hammer. Which means more slide velocity is eaten up in cocking the hammer, slowing things down even more.

Just to mention this again, the original 1911 and I believe P35 had a flat bottom FPS. These aren't new inventions by any stretch.

[WilsonCombatRep]

Flat bottom FPS act to shorten the lever length the slide has in cocking the hammer. Which means more slide velocity is eaten up in cocking the hammer, slowing things down even more.

Just to mention this again, the original 1911 and I believe P35 had a flat bottom FPS. These aren't new inventions by any stretch.


originally striker fired...when the 1911 patent expired they switched to hammer :)



http://www.google.com/patents/US1618510?dq=patent+1618510

[ToddG]

WCR, I think Bill's next project should be a 1911 built on all Wilson parts... just sayin' ... :cool:

[WilsonCombatRep]

WCR, I think Bill's next project should be a 1911 built on all Wilson parts... just sayin' ... :cool:

Baby steps, baby steps...

[JAD]

Where does one get a warner p35 fp stop? His online ordering is ng and brownells doesn't seem to carry it.

[BLR]

Where does one get a warner p35 fp stop? His online ordering is ng and brownells doesn't seem to carry it.

I called him up and ordered them. Best $20 I ever spent on a HP.

Heh. Baby steps.

[JAD]

Seems reasonable. Must remember during business hours.

[BLR]

Barrel thoughs:

1. I'm pretty convinced (now) barrel failure is less a problem than many believe. A conversation with Chuck Warner recently confirms he is of the same opinion. But opinions are like...well you know. So lets throw some numbers into the mix, shall we?

I threw each barrel into the SEM-EDAX and found the elemental composition. Then, each got a hardness test. What that allowed me to do, is buy a dozen Charpy test samples, 4 of each flavor corresponding the the barrel alloy. Then each sample was heat treated to the same hardness as the barrel. Some assumptions had to be made, as I'm sure some will point out. But this is as close as we can get without spending too much money.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140222_103418_zpsctdq3ubg.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140222_103418_zpsctdq3ubg.jpg.html)

So, on Monday I'll start getting impact toughness info on each barrel material. Should be a good, solid, first step to getting some actual insight into the suspected barrel failures.

[BLR]

Ejector. Flattened and both faces parallel.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140222_111236_zpsp2muzvra.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140222_111236_zpsp2muzvra.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140222_112244_zpseze7q1w9.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140222_112244_zpseze7q1w9.jpg.html)

That needs cleaning up a touch.

[BLR]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/Gunsmithing/20140222_130919_zpsrq1ki3mt.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/Gunsmithing/20140222_130919_zpsrq1ki3mt.jpg.html)

Only the contact areas for the sear and hammer were polished smooth, as I didn't want to widen the recess any more than necessary.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/Gunsmithing/20140222_132428_zpsuqp3ihj7.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/Gunsmithing/20140222_132428_zpsuqp3ihj7.jpg.html)

Wow.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/Gunsmithing/20140222_133041_zpsl0zopf2q.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/Gunsmithing/20140222_133041_zpsl0zopf2q.jpg.html)

Cleaned up.

[BLR]

The C&S thumb safety pin isn't round.

[JAD]

The C&S thumb safety pin isn't round.

This is my shocked face.

I don't think I've ever said it aloud before, but I sure wish Wilson would make a set of P35 bits.

[WilsonCombatRep]

This is my shocked face.

I don't think I've ever said it aloud before, but I sure wish Wilson would make a set of P35 bits.

me too!

[KevinB]

me too!

It would be awesome.

I'd love if someone made a 1913 Flash Light rail for the BHP.

[tomr]

me too!

To which?

[TheNewbie]

Not sure if I should start a new thread for this or not....

What would be the advantages and downfalls to running a Hi Power as a duty weapon?

[Slavex]

Not a big fan of HPs, but this thread and the SIG thread are just friggin awesome. I am still trying to figure out how the two piece barrel works compared to the other two????

(oh and if you find a CZ Shadow on your doorstep.....)

[JAD]

]
What P35 sights should look like.


Not for me. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/23/yny4yhe8.jpg

The front is a serrated no-outline Triji.

And yes, that is an a$$y factory fp stop.

[WilsonCombatRep]

Garthwaite makes a rail http://www.garthwaite.com/gallery/
but not sure if it is the style you want

[Magic_Salad0892]

It would be awesome.

I'd love if someone made a 1913 Flash Light rail for the BHP.

I can't remember where I saw it, but one exists. I know I've also heard of somebody using the bolt on 1913 rails for a 1911 on one, and it worked fine.

[Magic_Salad0892]

This is my shocked face.

I don't think I've ever said it aloud before, but I sure wish Wilson would make a set of P35 bits.

An extended slide release that isn't slanted like the C&S version would be cool. I've always been temped to get a P35.

[JAD]

I have no issue hitting the factory part though its sharp leading edge hates holsters.

[TR675]

What would be the advantages and downfalls to running a Hi Power as a duty weapon?

Advantage: being awesome.

Downfall: not being quite so awesome.

[TheNewbie]

Advantage: being awesome.

Downfall: not being quite so awesome.

lol

+1

[JonInWA]

Not sure if I should start a new thread for this or not....

What would be the advantages and downfalls to running a Hi Power as a duty weapon?

Advantages:

-Size/compactness

-Basic ergonomics

-Single action easy to use; only one triggerpull characteristic to master

-Relative accuracy

-Reliability (withing forecasted lifespan)

-Easy to field-strip

-Decent useable OEM sights, with good light bar ratios

-Other than the sharp/protrusive hammer, a Hi Power has good carry-bevel characteristics regarding most other exposed surfaces

Disadvantages/Downfalls:

-Square magazine well can trip up magazine insertions

-Spur hammer can bite the web of the hand

-Epoxy finish, while good for what it is, is nowhere comparable to much more durable/more weather impervious finishes available

-Action notorious from coming from FN automatically requiring an action job; the somewhat convoluted mechanics of the hammer tripping system can make a truly good triggerpull difficult/expensive to achieve

-Long trigger reset

-Relative expensive in time/resources for units to maintain

-Difficult to detail-disassemble

-More lubrication intensive than contemporary polymer competitors

-Single action not necessarily best suited to all shooters, especially during high adrenelin threat-management situations if safety off

-Potentially dangerous to de-cock with a round chambered-more attention, skill, and mastery required to de-cock safely

-Limited overall lifespan, especially compared to contemporary polymer framed competitors

-While not particularly heavy per se, certainly heavier than polymer competitors

-Carrying cocked-and-locked exposes internal mechanisms to potential debris, potentially hindering operational effectiveness (or inducing hammer-down carry, inducing operational delays in achieving readiness to fire)

-Very expensive initial buy-in cost-currently discounted prices are between $850-$1,000; limited production/production allocations can make them somewhat difficult to find new today

-Sharp magazine baseplate edges can disproportionally dictate spare magazine carry to preclude cutting one's self

-While effective, safety levers not quite as ergonomic as others provided by competitors as OEM components

-While effective, slide release finger pad isn't quite as effectively shaped/positioned for using as a slide release as are thise on other contemporaries

-Parts replacement/fitting likely to require a gunsmith/upper echelon support

-Grip panels secured by screws, which can loosen and fall out if not properly tightened and checked (in all fairness, it's pretty rare for this to happen)

At the end of the day, while I certainly consider a Hi Power to be a very viable defensive firearm, and one eminently capable of carry, and a magnificent refined example of John Moses Browning's genius (and even more so of Saieve's), a contemporary polymer-framed pistol has significantly obseleted it in comparison in many key areas.

But that's not to say that one couldn't enjoy, appreciate, and viably use/carry one, if cognizant of its limitations.

Best, Jon

[BLR]

A thought: I'm really surprised the big name shops charge less for a HP than a 1911. This needs far more work IMO.

[JAD]

I think you can do more, but get away with a lot less.

[Dave Berryhill]

...
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/Gunsmithing/20140222_133041_zpsl0zopf2q.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/Gunsmithing/20140222_133041_zpsl0zopf2q.jpg.html)
....

You're not going to put that back in the pistol are you? When you remove the trigger, you're supposed to let that part launch across the room and never look for it. It's kind of like an exorcism! :D

[WilsonCombatRep]

You're not going to put that back in the pistol are you? When you remove the trigger, you're supposed to let that part launch across the room and never look for it. It's kind of like an exorcism! :D

Agreed!!

[BLR]

As a matter of fact, I am. And the trigger will have the over travel fixed, and the pre-travel taken up. Plans are already in the works for that.

I must have 3000 little pins on my desk now.

Pictures of broken Charpy specimens tomorrow!

[WilsonCombatRep]

As a matter of fact, I am. And the trigger will have the over travel fixed, and the pre-travel taken up. Plans are already in the works for that.

I must have 3000 little pins on my desk now.

Pictures of broken Charpy specimens tomorrow!

How about a beavertail already

[Chuck Whitlock]

Not sure if I should start a new thread for this or not....

What would be the advantages and downfalls to running a Hi Power as a duty weapon?


Advantage: being awesome.

Downfall: not being quite so awesome.


Advantages:

-Size/compactness

-Basic ergonomics

-Single action easy to use; only one triggerpull characteristic to master

-Relative accuracy

-Reliability (withing forecasted lifespan)

-Easy to field-strip

-Decent useable OEM sights, with good light bar ratios

-Other than the sharp/protrusive hammer, a Hi Power has good carry-bevel characteristics regarding most other exposed surfaces

Disadvantages/Downfalls:

-Square magazine well can trip up magazine insertions

-Spur hammer can bite the web of the hand

-Epoxy finish, while good for what it is, is nowhere comparable to much more durable/more weather impervious finishes available

-Action notorious from coming from FN automatically requiring an action job; the somewhat convoluted mechanics of the hammer tripping system can make a truly good triggerpull difficult/expensive to achieve

-Long trigger reset

-Relative expensive in time/resources for units to maintain

-Difficult to detail-disassemble

-More lubrication intensive than contemporary polymer competitors

-Single action not necessarily best suited to all shooters, especially during high adrenelin threat-management situations if safety off

-Potentially dangerous to de-cock with a round chambered-more attention, skill, and mastery required to de-cock safely

-Limited overall lifespan, especially compared to contemporary polymer framed competitors

-While not particularly heavy per se, certainly heavier than polymer competitors

-Carrying cocked-and-locked exposes internal mechanisms to potential debris, potentially hindering operational effectiveness (or inducing hammer-down carry, inducing operational delays in achieving readiness to fire)

-Very expensive initial buy-in cost-currently discounted prices are between $850-$1,000; limited production/production allocations can make them somewhat difficult to find new today

-Sharp magazine baseplate edges can disproportionally dictate spare magazine carry to preclude cutting one's self

-While effective, safety levers not quite as ergonomic as others provided by competitors as OEM components

-While effective, slide release finger pad isn't quite as effectively shaped/positioned for using as a slide release as are thise on other contemporaries

-Parts replacement/fitting likely to require a gunsmith/upper echelon support

-Grip panels secured by screws, which can loosen and fall out if not properly tightened and checked (in all fairness, it's pretty rare for this to happen)

At the end of the day, while I certainly consider a Hi Power to be a very viable defensive firearm, and one eminently capable of carry, and a magnificent refined example of John Moses Browning's genius (and even more so of Saieve's), a contemporary polymer-framed pistol has significantly obseleted it in comparison in many key areas.

But that's not to say that one couldn't enjoy, appreciate, and viably use/carry one, if cognizant of its limitations.

Best, Jon

These sum it up nicely. My first LE duty gun was a BHP MKIII in .40S&W. My only complaint beyond the hammer bite was that, carried IWB in south TX, my sweaty hide would induce the development of rust between the frame and mag catch, necessitating its removal to clean up.

This forum has made me incredibly sad that I sold it off lo these many years ago.

[Tamara]

How about a beavertail already

I know, right?

[Grizzly21]

On the topic of BHPs...I had some custom work done to mine a few years back however the trigger is still lacking...is there a BHP guru that can tune-up the trigger on same. Trigger pull weight is not bad however the reset sucks.

[theJanitor]

If Novak is still accepting BHP work, they will do a fine job on anything BHP related. Otherwise, Jim Garthwaite or Karl Sokol would be my choice. My Sokol trigger was very good, as was my Yost and Heinie. The latter two are not accepting this type of work either

[Grizzly21]

If Novak is still accepting BHP work, they will do a fine job on anything BHP related. Otherwise, Jim Garthwaite or Karl Sokol would be my choice. My Sokol trigger was very good, as was my Yost and Heinie. The latter two are not accepting this type of work either

Sokol did my work and I'm not impressed with the trigger work however it may be as good as its going to get with the work he performed based on the design of the trigger.

[Haraise]

On the topic of BHPs...I had some custom work done to mine a few years back however the trigger is still lacking...is there a BHP guru that can tune-up the trigger on same. Trigger pull weight is not bad however the reset sucks.

Might want to check this out: http://www.warnerpistols.com/About.html

Good reviews on a gunsmithing forum (can't find the thread).

[theJanitor]

Wasn't CW embarking on the project of making BHP's from scratch?

[Chuck Whitlock]

On the topic of BHPs...I had some custom work done to mine a few years back however the trigger is still lacking...is there a BHP guru that can tune-up the trigger on same. Trigger pull weight is not bad however the reset sucks.

Funny.......I don't think I ever even heard the term "trigger reset" until Glocks became what all the cool kids had.

[JHC]

I've handled a couple of SFS configured BHPs. Seemed pretty slick. Any good or failure prone?

[Corvus]

I don't remember the name of the place right now but I think they were in Florida if I remember right and they were machining Hi Power frames with beavertails. I will see if I can locate the name of the shop again.

[Corvus]

http://www.floridaarms.com/

[Eternal24k]

This is my shocked face.

I don't think I've ever said it aloud before, but I sure wish Wilson would make a set of P35 bits.

Or a WC P35 pistol....

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[TORCH2J]

Do you know if they sell individual orders, or if you have to get 100? Just asking before I call them.

[Eternal24k]

Do you know if they sell individual orders, or if you have to get 100? Just asking before I call them.

Looks like that's just when dealer discounts apply. They look very promising, interested in hearing the price for carbon steel and frame

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[theJanitor]

Any updates, BLR?

[BLR]

Any updates, BLR?

Yeah...because the world has lost its way, I've been butt-deep in soulless plastic people popper guns lately. Which has me sad, and feeling burned out.

[theJanitor]

I could send you a colt that needs its frontstrap checkering fixed ;) Somehow the 1911 belongs in this thread, as I traded a beautiful Karl Sokol HiPower for it

[Dave Berryhill]

Yeah...because the world has lost its way, I've been butt-deep in soulless plastic people popper guns lately. Which has me sad, and feeling burned out.
I happen to know of a couple of 1911 frames that you could work on (wink wink, nudge nudge) :D

[BLR]

The poor beaten up colt is almost done. One fitting pad to go. The other is finished. I'll post pics.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[Boxy]

Following this thread as I introduced my wife to the P35 and she is giddy about it. I bought a new MkIII Hipower and the magazine disconnector was indeed polymer plastic. I also have purchased the C&S No bite hammer and sear set and noticed the new hammer strut pin is beveled on one side and the OEM hammer has a counter sink bevel to accommodate. The issue is the C&S hammer does not have the similar fit. Appears the C&S hammer needs to be milled a bit which does not add value to the alleged "drop in" part.

Any insight into replacing MKIII hammer with C&S?

Thanks,

Satch

[45dotACP]

Yeah...because the world has lost its way, I've been butt-deep in soulless plastic people popper guns lately. Which has me sad, and feeling burned out.

Makes me sad too! Though I've got the 1911 thread bookmarked for when you come back to the one true way of John Moses Browning ;)

[JonInWA]

Following this thread as I introduced my wife to the P35 and she is giddy about it. I bought a new MkIII Hipower and the magazine disconnector was indeed polymer plastic. I also have purchased the C&S No bite hammer and sear set and noticed the new hammer strut pin is beveled on one side and the OEM hammer has a counter sink bevel to accommodate. The issue is the C&S hammer does not have the similar fit. Appears the C&S hammer needs to be milled a bit which does not add value to the alleged "drop in" part.

Any insight into replacing MKIII hammer with C&S?

Thanks,

Satch

I'd suggest having a qualified gunsmith (as in one qualified and experienced on Hi Powers) perform the work-such as C&S themselves. And, as long as they have it, perhaps concurrently an action job to clean up the triggerpull if needed after the new parts are installed (although they might do that as a matter of course IAW the installation, but I'd ask the question).

Best, Jon

[Magic_Salad0892]

Have there been any updates to this project?

[KevinB]

Have there been any updates to this project?


Glad to see I'm not the only one chomping at this bit

[Magic_Salad0892]

Glad to see I'm not the only one chomping at this bit

Maybe you could post pics of some of your Hi-Powers to tide the rest of us over? :cool:

[BWT]

I tried to draw attention to the TRP Project he was doing. I'm guessing he's involved in other projects or work.

[BLR]

Sorry guys. Reality intrudes on my fantasies sometimes. Has been doing that with alarming regularity the last few weeks.

On the plus side, looks like next gen ceramic armor might be a reality.

[Magic_Salad0892]

Sorry guys. Reality intrudes on my fantasies sometimes. Has been doing that with alarming regularity the last few weeks.

On the plus side, looks like next gen ceramic armor might be a reality.

Elaborate?

[BLR]

Elaborate?

Believe it or not, I'm not the drooling idiot that some people think I am. My paying job, such that it is, is developing carbon nanotube - carbide based multifunctional composites. One system near and dear to my heart is ballistic armor. We have spent a good bit of time desensitizing carbides, through the inclusion of CNTs, to impact. Fracture toughening isn't quite right, but that should get the idea across.

[Magic_Salad0892]

One system near and dear to my heart is ballistic armor.

Was that pun intentional? Thanks for the explanation, btw.

[BLR]

Was that pun intentional? Thanks for the explanation, btw.

Yup.

[tomr]

Yup.

You were missed.

[Lon]

Believe it or not, I'm not the drooling idiot that some people think I am. My paying job, such that it is, is developing carbon nanotube - carbide based multifunctional composites. One system near and dear to my heart is ballistic armor. We have spent a good bit of time desensitizing carbides, through the inclusion of CNTs, to impact. Fracture toughening isn't quite right, but that should get the idea across.

Me and my team guys will test stuff for you. I volunteer Matt to be the test shooting dummy :)

[BLR]

Lol

You guys never take me up on the bbq and yote hunts.

[Lon]

Lol

You guys never take me up on the bbq and yote hunts.

What? I don't remember anything about that. I never pass up BBQ or yote hunting.

[Joe in PNG]

Don't forget the Scotch sipping. This place is all about the Scotch sipping.

[Lon]

Don't forget the Scotch sipping. This place is all about the Scotch sipping.

Heck ya!! Tell me when and where. I'll bring some good cigars!!!!

[BLR]

Nope. I'm taking care of the drinkables and smokeables. Matt needs some guy time.

[Lon]

Nope. I'm taking care of the drinkables and smokeables. Matt needs some guy time.

No doubt there. I asked him if he understood about the birds and the bees. We didn't figure he planned on having that many kids. We were wrong.

[BLR]

ROTFL

[Clobbersaurus]

BTT - just wondering how this P35 turned out?