P229 Thoughts

[BLR]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140212_165806_zpseosnwyfd.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140212_165806_zpseosnwyfd.jpg.html)

First, the barrel fit is superb. Simply superb.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140212_165816_zpscezjvhsk.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140212_165816_zpscezjvhsk.jpg.html)

Kinda chunky pistol.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140212_165845_zpsp7wwefzy.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140212_165845_zpsp7wwefzy.jpg.html)

Ok, so it's actually huge for a "compact" 9mm. Incidentally, that's a NHC Falcon with a newly staked plunger tube sitting underneath.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140212_165906_zpsizzmftdz.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140212_165906_zpsizzmftdz.jpg.html)

Massive slide.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140212_165929_zpsjibedunf.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140212_165929_zpsjibedunf.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140212_165945_zpsown7ysyn.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140212_165945_zpsown7ysyn.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140212_170013_zpsotopo6pw.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140212_170013_zpsotopo6pw.jpg.html)

Sig does a good job with barrels. Though, they don't use the hardest steel known to man.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140212_170054_zps5votze2n.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140212_170054_zps5votze2n.jpg.html)

That type of mag well makes me twitch, whereas the 1911 is nicely blended.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140212_170149_zpssf9k35k7.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140212_170149_zpssf9k35k7.jpg.html)

Stamped parts make me sad.

Tomorrow - prepping parts and correcting geometries. :D

[HCM]

Is that NHC a 9mm as well ?

[Clobbersaurus]

The rear sight on that Sig is horrid. Needs some black Tremclad applied with a Q-tip...:D

[JM Campbell]

So Todd threw out the 2022 manual? I didn't see it in the box.

[ToddG]

In theory, new sights should be showing up before the gun leaves Bill's hands.

[GJM]

Are you replacing the E2 grips?

[ToddG]

Probably. Hopefully with CTCs but no word yet on whether the ones I want are on the way or not.

Guys, for issues not directly related to Bill's findings and work we should probably keep things in the other thread (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11155-My-New-SIG-P229R) so as not to water this one down.

[GJM]

I have the CT Military model front activation grips just sitting around if you need to borrow them.

[ffhounddog]

Was the trigger replaced with the short trigger? I thought all the new Sigs were coming with with the E2 and the Short reach trigger?

[Rich]

I always thought the P229 was built to be a 40/357 and the P228 a 9mm!

I found my P229 40cal grip to be the same width as my P30S 9mm.

Looks like sig got rid of the Bar Dot white painted sights!. I happen to be a fan of such sights. Also has a hooked trigger guard I see. (the Gen 1 P229 is rounded)

I hope the Dash -1 Slide and L extractor works out.

Still don't get why the new P227 didn't sport the -1 slide & L extractor?

[Rich]

In theory, new sights should be showing up before the gun leaves Bill's hands.

So this is your pistol?

[ToddG]

So this is your pistol?

Yeah. I think it would be hard to keep that cat in the bag when the refinished gun he shows in pics looks identical the gun I have in my hands next week. :cool:

[BLR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PasFKif-Z4

'cept I ain't got any blow.

[ToddG]

Just don't reverse the safety!

[Don Gwinn]

I'm a little curious about the bar-dot sights, too. I've only owned one SIG, a vintage P220, and it had the first set of dot-over-bar I'd seen. I love those sights (they're still on it) and later when I had a chance to try Heinie Straight Eights, that was probably part of the reason I liked them so much. I've kind of rediscovered 3-dot now as I begin to realize that it's me, not the sights . . . but it's too bad to see a SIG without 'em.

(Edit: ACK. I thought Bill was doing the sights, so I put this here. Should have gone in the other thread. Mea culpa.)

[John Hearne]

Sig sells more P226 and P229's than P220. The new extractor is designed to minimize manufacturing costs but you have to make an initial investment to redesign the extractor and that takes money. At this time Sig doesn't sell enough P220 and variants to justify the redesign expense.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

[BLR]

Is that NHC a 9mm as well ?

10mm.

I was just asked why I have Rush playing in my office...... :cool:

[Chefdog]

I was just asked why I have Rush playing in my office...... :cool:

Uh, cause you're today's Tom Sawyer?

[TheTrevor]

10mm.

I was just asked why I have Rush playing in my office...... :cool:

Auditioning guns AND music for RAPS, of course.

[hossb7]

Comparing the stock mag well of a P229 to a Nighthawk Custom Falcon? What am I missing? :confused:

[Savage Hands]

Comparing the stock mag well of a P229 to a Nighthawk Custom Falcon? What am I missing? :confused:


Step your resolution up Son, the Sig is not blended like the Nighthawk. :-P

[Don Gwinn]

That extra couple thousand dollars makes a difference, huh? ;)

[John Ralston]

Although it isn't as pretty for sure...I have never had a mag hang up on my P229. Now the P220 could surely use some time with a file.

[ToddG]

Although it isn't as pretty for sure...I have never had a mag hang up on my P229.

You must have a gift. The P229 grips are a bit notorious for it and I know more than a few folks who'd choose the 226 over the 228/9 for that reason alone. I debated it myself. My SWAGhope is that the funny tapered shape of the P229-1 magazines will make it a little easier. Plus compared to the issues I had getting a fast reload on the 1911 almost anything will seem better simply due to the more ergonomic (for me) way the SIG works on the reload.

[justintime]

That is my biggest hurdle with the 229. It has made me faster with the glock though

[BLR]

Todd's P229 will be the "Moran" P229.

If you don't know who Moran is, read a *** **** book. (j/k, Archer joke)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140214_095600_zpsznyrjyqp.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140214_095600_zpsznyrjyqp.jpg.html)

Pics of parts to follow. Looks like I'll be spending the day polishing.

FYI - that mag catch was a PITA to get out. :|

ETA: Moran is a Sherlock Holmes character, "the second most dangerous man" according to Holmes, and every gun I work on is celebrated with a Pipe. I found this happy little Holmes Edition Peterson House Pipe, and it only seemed fitting as Moriarty was taken already. Yes, I'm weird, but I'm happy.

[ToddG]

FYI - that mag catch was a PITA to get out. :|

And if you brain hiccup putting it back in, frame is ruined. Awesome, aint it? Why do you think I had you do it? :cool:

[Wayne Dobbs]

That mag catch "disaster waiting to happen" is something I've always wondered about. Can't believe that wasn't re-engineered...

[JV_]

I've heard of a number of folks fixing their stuck mag catch detent with a trimmed feeler gauge.

[BLR]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140214_103838_zps4ey73ve5.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140214_103838_zps4ey73ve5.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140214_103621_zpsyubqumw7.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140214_103621_zpsyubqumw7.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140214_103533_zpsgpsq0lth.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140214_103533_zpsgpsq0lth.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140214_103248_zpsedh1llqf.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140214_103248_zpsedh1llqf.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140214_103237_zpsrst0sdju.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140214_103237_zpsrst0sdju.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140214_103230_zps8kqbcrpd.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140214_103230_zps8kqbcrpd.jpg.html)

^

Simply will not do. No sir. Not even close.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140214_103020_zpsgtogbigr.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140214_103020_zpsgtogbigr.jpg.html)

^

Unfinished stampings make me all twitchy.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140214_102950_zpskpcw2svx.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140214_102950_zpskpcw2svx.jpg.html)

^

I'm assuming everyone sees the problems shown in the above picture. :|

All for now. I gots work to do on this little guy.

[ToddG]

I'm assuming everyone sees the problems shown in the above picture. :|

I don't. Looks perfectly normal to me. As in, I've seen thousands of them, that looks like all of them, and they all ran properly.

Really looking forward to your explanations and cannot say how much I appreciate all the effort. Never thought it would be a full day's work, dude. I feel bad.

Not too bad, but pretend.

Also, I had to Google it but this was awesome:

[Moran] Becoming Professor Moriarty's chief of staff and picked assassin on account of his great martial skill, Holmes's character further described him as "the second most dangerous man in London" - second, that is, only to Moriarty himself.

[BLR]

Really looking forward to your explanations and cannot say how much I appreciate all the effort. Never thought it would be a full day's work, dude. I feel bad.

Not too bad, but pretend.


Never had it figured any other way.

Explanations in good time, buddy.

Back to work for me.

[John Ralston]

The last picture is the only one I don't get...but maybe I'm just getting slow.

[CCT125US]

Wear spot on the spring from contacting grip panel? Or bad resolution on cell..

[Suvorov]

Wear spot on the spring from contacting grip panel? Or bad resolution on cell..

Yeah. Looks like some wear on the frame towards the back of the frame cut out. Probably well within normal tolerance but not good enough for perfection.

[JV_]

Not sure if we're talking about the same mark, but it looks like it's from ledge on the decocker lever that goes in to the frame? That frame mark is pretty common.

[Al T.]

I'm enjoying this thread, but I'm like a cat watching TV.I see noise, light and movement, but nary a clue as to what's going on. :D

[TheTrevor]

I'm enjoying this thread, but I'm like a cat watching TV.I see noise, light and movement, but nary a clue as to what's going on. :D

I feel like a carpenter who wandered into a continuing-education seminar for the folks who assemble MRI scanners. And I'm getting flashbacks to second-semester physics-for-engineers, for which I had an incomprehensibly Scottish professor who loved to say stuff like "the rest of this is pretty obvious, so I'm just going to move along to the next problem."

[Jaywalker]

I feel like a carpenter who wandered into a continuing-education seminar for the folks who assemble MRI scanners. And I'm getting flashbacks to second-semester physics-for-engineers, for which I had an incomprehensibly Scottish professor who loved to say stuff like "the rest of this is pretty obvious, so I'm just going to move along to the next problem."My favorite was always, "I'll leave the rest of this as an exercise for the student."

[John Ralston]

I feel like a carpenter who wandered into a continuing-education seminar for the folks who assemble MRI scanners. And I'm getting flashbacks to second-semester physics-for-engineers, for which I had an incomprehensibly Scottish professor who loved to say stuff like "the rest of this is pretty obvious, so I'm just going to move along to the next problem."

Mine was a Heat Transfer Prof. that would skip about 20 steps and when you asked how he got from A to Y he would say..."that's basic high school algebra, you should know how to do that". He was a total tool.

[Lomshek]

I don't. Looks perfectly normal to me. As in, I've seen thousands of them, that looks like all of them, and they all ran properly.

Really looking forward to your explanations and cannot say how much I appreciate all the effort.
Never thought it would be a full day's work, dude. I feel bad.

Not too bad, but pretend.

Also, I had to Google it but this was awesome:

In seeing these photos it's apparent Bill is doing to this pistol what I do to bicycles. On two very high end ($9K+) Time Trial bikes I spent more than a day each to fix the factory brakes that are supposedly made to perfectly blend with the frame to eliminate drag. Lots of gentle filing, fitting and polishing to make everything work as smooth as the prototype when it looked like a great idea before it went to mass production.

If I had to hazard a guess besides an absurdly smooth action you'll see less parts breakage than expected because he's taking care of all the stressors before they become an issue.

Warms the cockles of my heart to see a kindred spirit at work! :)

[TheTrevor]

Mine was a Heat Transfer Prof. that would skip about 20 steps and when you asked how he got from A to Y he would say..."that's basic high school algebra, you should know how to do that". He was a total tool.

Pretty sure I had that guy's Russian cousin for calculus. He openly discouraged people from bothering him during required office hours, suggesting instead that they seek help from the TA or the academic help center.

[Suvorov]

Mine was a Heat Transfer Prof. that would skip about 20 steps and when you asked how he got from A to Y he would say..."that's basic high school algebra, you should know how to do that". He was a total tool.

Ah yes, the infamous Junior/Senior year weed out course. Our Heat Transfer Prof was easily the most hated prof in the Mechanical Engineer Dept. On the first day he would tell everyone to look around the room - "60% of you will either drop or fail the course." I was SO proud of the C+ I received in that class.

[ToddG]

In seeing these photos it's apparent Bill is doing to this pistol what I do to bicycles. On two very high end ($9K+) Time Trial bikes I spent more than a day each to fix the factory brakes that are supposedly made to perfectly blend with the frame to eliminate drag. Lots of gentle filing, fitting and polishing to make everything work as smooth as the prototype when it looked like a great idea before it went to mass production.

If I had to hazard a guess besides an absurdly smooth action you'll see less parts breakage than expected because he's taking care of all the stressors before they become an issue.

Warms the cockles of my heart to see a kindred spirit at work! :)

I'm sure. But those were either your bikes or bikes someone paid you for. Bill is doing this just to be a great guy and it was never my intention that he get sucked into a whirlwind over it. We may all recall that he has, like, a real job where he's developing, like, real cool stuff for a living. So I'm just humbled. And we all know how easy it is to make me humble.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I'm sure. But those were either your bikes or bikes someone paid you for. Bill is doing this just to be a great guy and it was never my intention that he get sucked into a whirlwind over it. We may all recall that he has, like, a real job where he's developing, like, real cool stuff for a living. So I'm just humbled. And we all know how easy it is to make me humble.

It's simply karma, Todd. You've done so much for us, perhaps it's time we give a little back to you!

[WilsonCombatRep]

Perfect

[BLR]

It's simply karma, Todd. You've done so much for us, perhaps it's time we give a little back to you!

Exactly....and I'm hoping to, uhhhh, "erase" a couple things...

[BLR]

Some stuff from yesterday. Busy truing the frame today.

First, the frame is (typical of Sig) quite nicely done. The block mounting surface in the frame was true to 1 minute according to my Sine Bar. The rails were straight, true, and parallel to 0.0007. Happy with that. Good job Sig.

If I had an extra week, there would be just a couple weld and re-machine spots on the frame. But overall, I wish the 1911 guys could do this.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_101555_zpssnxliofs.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_101555_zpssnxliofs.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_101610_zps701c2ay9.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_101610_zps701c2ay9.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_101731_zpss8rqhpph.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_101731_zpss8rqhpph.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_101743_zpsvdxbqf4e.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_101743_zpsvdxbqf4e.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_102146_zps720tahgl.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_102146_zps720tahgl.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_102153_zpsp7faujew.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_102153_zpsp7faujew.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_102225_zpstnri35pb.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_102225_zpstnri35pb.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_102235_zpsmmqaznfx.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_102235_zpsmmqaznfx.jpg.html)

Hammer, trigger, and sear all benefited from some judicious truing and polishing. The sear took 0.0006" to true up, so that was good on the surface grinder. The hammer took 0.0008" to true up. Not unhappy with that at all.

Todd is getting a two layer composite finish on Moran. First layer will be 25% Tungsten, 16% Phos, and the balance Nickel. This will serve as the adhesion layer, and provide corrosion and wear resistance. This is what my favorite Tactical Hobo got on his 226. The second layer will be 25% Tungsten, 14% Phos, 12% PTFE, and the balance Nickel.

Now to check the crown and chamber for concentrictiy....more pics this PM.

[ToddG]

You're going to far too much trouble dude... on a Saturday.

edited to add: But it's awesome you've named your creation. I've never named a gun before.

[JAD]

You're going to far too much trouble .

It's like you don't know any engineers.

[ToddG]

It's like you don't know any engineers.

Which just makes me complicit in the whole thing.

[rsa-otc]

So I'm just humbled. And we all know how easy it is to make me humble.

To good people come good things.

Nice job Bill.

[ToddG]

To good people come good things.

True, and Bill is a good guy and that SIG is a good thing but he still has to give it back. :cool:

[BLR]

The extractor, the old extractor, has been scrapped.

Meet your new extractor:

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_110208_zpsl0kmfvhn.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_110208_zpsl0kmfvhn.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_110248_zpsyb2igkuw.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_110248_zpsyb2igkuw.jpg.html)

The old extractor had a void on the top side of the hook. Moran doesn't take chances.

New polished extractor pics in a sec.

[ToddG]

Wait. What? You have SIG extractors lying around? Or did you just machine one from scratch? :cool:

[BLR]

Wait. What? You have SIG extractors lying around? Or did you just machine one from scratch? :cool:

Sadly, no. I was going to ship a spare prep'ed extractor back. Was ordered in anticipation of getting my hands on this one.

[ToddG]

Dude, you're killing me.

[BLR]

So, the barrel had burrs from manufacturing that were gouging on the frame block. :|

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_110920_zps69ftmenv.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_110920_zps69ftmenv.jpg.html)

You can see the remnants of those burrs above. 70% taken care of.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_111209_zps7zu42mfd.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_111209_zps7zu42mfd.jpg.html)

Maybe this shows the pores in guns??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_112337_zpsbwfbqwkw.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_112337_zpsbwfbqwkw.jpg.html)

Polished and prep'ed

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_112400_zpsdtmbtqsk.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_112400_zpsdtmbtqsk.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_112403_zpsenahas41.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_112403_zpsenahas41.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_114341_zpsvyipftgi.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_114341_zpsvyipftgi.jpg.html)

Above, the little details are what makes for a fun project. Sig makes good parts. Well, 80% good. An "action job" is the next 10%.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_105241_zpsuvkzchnz.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_105241_zpsuvkzchnz.jpg.html)

Yuck.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_105246_zpseyrs0ghy.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_105246_zpseyrs0ghy.jpg.html)

Again, yuck.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_110115_zpsmdwenljx.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_110115_zpsmdwenljx.jpg.html)

Fixed.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_110125_zpsqjhtxyvl.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_110125_zpsqjhtxyvl.jpg.html)

You can still see faint machine marks. Don't want to alter geometries (for the most part). But will add to a smoother, more consistent cycling. And since Moran is destine for someone will notice/care, all steps must be observed.

[ToddG]

And since Moran is destine for someone will notice/care, all steps must be observed.

Now I have to pretend I would have noticed this stuff, too. So much pressure.

[BLR]

Surface ground block - now it's all parallel and square. The rough-ass cam has been dressed and polished. Is quite smooth now. :D

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_120724_zpsn0yr4bg1.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_120724_zpsn0yr4bg1.jpg.html)

Just enough for about 70% contact.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_120732_zpsltgqyqit.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_120732_zpsltgqyqit.jpg.html)

Now the barrel will sit square.

[Rich]

Sig sells more P226 and P229's than P220. The new extractor is designed to minimize manufacturing costs but you have to make an initial investment to redesign the extractor and that takes money. At this time Sig doesn't sell enough P220 and variants to justify the redesign expense.

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Thanks

Looks like you are going to have a real nice P229 there Todd.

I really like the special coatings on the small parts !

I wish sig would offer treated parts

[BLR]

More pics -

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_122303_zpsgnh8dlqc.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_122303_zpsgnh8dlqc.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_122419_zps81rr6blt.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_122419_zps81rr6blt.jpg.html)

Just off the grinder.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_122425_zpsmam9p5rt.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_122425_zpsmam9p5rt.jpg.html)

You can see, I'm really not taking much material off. No need, just truing and cleaning it up.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_122859_zpsxlxnrlc6.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_122859_zpsxlxnrlc6.jpg.html)

All contact points are being addressed prior to finishing.

Should be finishing tomorrow AM.

Moran had an amazing barrel fit. Just lovely.

[ToddG]

And all this for just three easy payments of $9.99 folks. You can PM Bill directly to get in line for your order. :cool:

Seriously dude, I never thought this was going to take so much time and effort. Now I feel bad about the fact that I'm going to send you one or two more guns. :cool: :cool: :cool:

[BLR]

I'm enjoying myself.

Now more pics....

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_124347_zps35sgw7ms.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_124347_zps35sgw7ms.jpg.html)

Very good job on the hammer strut, Sig. Just polishing needed on this part!

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_124903_zpszzbr4dut.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_124903_zpszzbr4dut.jpg.html)

For those keeping score at home: the biggest gains in an "action job" are often to be gained where springs ride in holes (MSH on a 1911) or on guides (Sigs and Ruger revolvers). Again, good work Sig! Just polishing it up a touch. This is, in fact, the nicest part of the gun in aside from that L-O-V-E-L-Y barrel.

[BLR]

Chamber concentric to 0.0009", crown to 0.0004".

Gonna call that good!

[JHC]

That gun sure does look clean right now Todd. ;)

[BLR]

So, now I have a new favorite part from Sig - the hammer. That's a nice hammer. Stamped S7 - is that S7 tool steel?

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_140947_zpsdrepag9w.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_140947_zpsdrepag9w.jpg.html)

And a new most hated part. The sear.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_140937_zpssoe6vp48.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_140937_zpssoe6vp48.jpg.html)

That was double ugly. And the sides were not square to the pin. That took a bit of gymnastics to correct. Looking at you, Sig.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_140928_zps5jit4ogo.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_140928_zps5jit4ogo.jpg.html)

Action job complete. Now for plating prep. Pics tomorrow, I need to strip off that wicked Sig anodizing....

[justintime]

How much of this improves reliability?

[BLR]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/16/yry8yqyt.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/16/ve7yby9a.jpg

At the range testing. .....

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[BLR]

120 rounds of 124g HAPs.

0 problems. Looking good for finishing up tomorrow.

I don't like the mag that I have for it. I don't like the mag lips at all. Not in the least little bit.

Crazy, right?

[BLR]

80 rounds of Gold Dots.

0 failures.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[Jac]

80 flawless rounds of Gold Dots.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

FIFY

[John Hearne]

My experience with Sigs is that the stock guns are anything but smooth or crisp. Given enough time, the DA pulls will slickup with use and especially dry practice. The SA pulls are improved with time but never as much as the DA pulls. If you can get your Sig to someone who knows what they're doing, you end up with an amazing trigger(s). It pretty much takes a gunsmith to crisp up the SA pull but the results are wonderful. In the end, a slicked up Sig is an infinitely shootable gun, you just need to knock off the factory sandpaper finish between the moving parts.

It's an interesting experience to hand a worked over Sig to someone who has only shot factory guns. They literally don't believe that what you're handing them is a Sig.

[tomr]

So, now I have a new favorite part from Sig - the hammer. That's a nice hammer. Stamped S7 - is that S7 tool steel?

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_140947_zpsdrepag9w.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_140947_zpsdrepag9w.jpg.html)

And a new most hated part. The sear.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_140937_zpssoe6vp48.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_140937_zpssoe6vp48.jpg.html)

That was double ugly. And the sides were not square to the pin. That took a bit of gymnastics to correct. Looking at you, Sig.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140215_140928_zps5jit4ogo.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140215_140928_zps5jit4ogo.jpg.html)

Action job complete. Now for plating prep. Pics tomorrow, I need to strip off that wicked Sig anodizing....

Bill, How do you strip anodizing?

[BLR]

0.35N KOH

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

Amazing thread. I hope that someone blogs this.

[dsa]

Talk about attention to detail. This thread makes me want to buy a P226. Are there any Sig specialists with this type of attention to detail that are currently accepting work?

[ToddG]

Talk about attention to detail. This thread makes me want to buy a P226. Are there any Sig specialists with this type of attention to detail that are currently accepting work?

I think you should first ask (a) how much is necessary, how much is desirable, and how much is perfectionist, and (b) how much would someone charge to do this level of work assuming you could find someone with the skills and precision measuring equipment of a dude with his own personal hyper engineering laboratory?

I'm beyond grateful to Bill for all of this but I think he would be the first to say the gun would have run right out of the box. I'm just going to have the most refined and awesome P229 in the history of human civilization.

I win. :cool:

[rsa-otc]

Todd when Bill gets done, that gun should last "you" at least 2 years, maybe even 3. Lol

But dude that gun is going to be awesome sweet.

[BLR]

Talk about attention to detail. This thread makes me want to buy a P226. Are there any Sig specialists with this type of attention to detail that are currently accepting work?

Gray Guns?

I really can't say how much I don't dig on that sear. :|

[ToddG]

I really can't say how much I don't dig on that sear. :|

"But it will run perfectly for 50,000 rounds," he added, knowing that otherwise Todd would not sleep for a week...

[CCT125US]

Bill, if one where to attach a dollar amount to the work performed, what might that be? Asked with the understanding that some projects are priceless and done just because you can.

[TheTrevor]

Figure $100/hour shop time rate, plus charges for parts, materials and consumable tooling. Best guess is that this would be a $1500-1800 custom job not including plating & coatings.

Coincidentally that's about what it costs to have Salient do their "Tier One" workup on a customer supplied Glock or M&P.

[TheTrevor]

Bill, you've rekindled my desire to get a surface grinder for the workshop. I wish I'd known I would want one when the last of the aerospace machine shops went out of business here in the Bay Area in the 90's, now it seems like all of the good used machinery shows up in LA or east of the Miss.

How did you measure angular deviation from square between the through-holes and the side surfaces of those parts? Fit a dowel pin then measure off of that with the part clamped to a surface plate?

When you corrected the deviation did you use the hole or one of the side surfaces as your datum plane?

[Lomshek]

I'm sure. But those were either your bikes or bikes someone paid you for. Bill is doing this just to be a great guy and it was never my intention that he get sucked into a whirlwind over it. We may all recall that he has, like, a real job where he's developing, like, real cool stuff for a living. So I'm just humbled. And we all know how easy it is to make me humble.

Most of the time but sometimes you just do this level of stuff because you find joy in the act of perfecting to the N'th level. Knowing that you're doing it for someone worthy makes it fun too. I wish I had a fraction of the skill Bill is exhibiting here. People look at me like I'm a wizard when I whip out a set of Mitutoyo calipers to show them why something doesn't quite work right.

[BLR]

How did you measure angular deviation from square between the through-holes and the side surfaces of those parts? Fit a dowel pin then measure off of that with the part clamped to a surface plate?

When you corrected the deviation did you use the hole or one of the side surfaces as your datum plane?

Dude, you NEED a surface grinder. And a jig grinder.

Everything was trued against the axel holes. The hammer was almost perfect.

And at the risk of sounding immodest, I'm not $100 per hour.


Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110417155525/archer/images/7/77/KriegerPigley.jpg

[LittleLebowski]

Bill, if one where to attach a dollar amount to the work performed, what might that be? Asked with the understanding that some projects are priceless and done just because you can.

I don't think you can put a price on a metallurgical PhD that is also a gun guy taking personal time refit your entire pistol and coat it in his proprietary finish. It's kinda like putting a price on friendship :D

[BLR]

Prep'ing the zincate solution.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_091357_zpsrxajlped.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_091357_zpsrxajlped.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_091536_zpsgrc8were.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_091536_zpsgrc8were.jpg.html)

Little details.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_093615_zpspdahcps3.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_093615_zpspdahcps3.jpg.html)

Acceptable sear engagement with minimal friction.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_094239_zps8g3cnpne.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_094239_zps8g3cnpne.jpg.html)

Some things became clear regarding Moran's feeding. Someone should have a long talk with SIG.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_094301_zpsmknqijdg.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_094301_zpsmknqijdg.jpg.html)

Don't worry, SIG. I left the rough ass finish you put in for the most part. Just cleaned it up a little. ;)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_094311_zpsrxwko7tk.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_094311_zpsrxwko7tk.jpg.html)

Final prep of the sear. Someone needs to make a tool steel sear. Just saying that the factory one is....lacking :|

[JM Campbell]

Bill I really think to top off this thread there needs to be a pic of "Moran" and the matching pipe smoking together...just saying.

Outstanding work sir, please carry on.

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[BLR]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/16/esehupet.jpg

Making life better thru chemistry

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[BLR]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/16/apyja5em.jpg

KOH is a favorite chemical of mine.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[BLR]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/16/9e9eha4u.jpg

Sig smultz.

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[BLR]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/16/a6e5uhe2.jpg

Anodizing dissolving of.



Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[BaiHu]

This has been a great experience to watch as an outsider. The camaraderie, expertise and art behind this vision is awesome.

The only problem for me reading this is that I feel like my dog when I threaten him with castration in an excited voice. I'm just excited to see you guys excited, but I can't tell you why :-P

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[WilsonCombatRep]

Oh no its ruined!

[BLR]

Oh no its ruined!

Anyone want to see the thin spots on SIGs anodizing?

[ToddG]

Bill -- when I worked there (as well as Beretta) it was an article of faith that the anodizing was a key component to not just the finish but the structural strength of the frame. Obviously you're not worried about stripping it so neither am I but I'd be interested to hear your general thoughts about the subject.

You know, because you're bored and have nothing to do.

[BLR]

The grey areas are where the anodizing has dissolved completely, the rest is on its way.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_104655_zps6bpqpqy6.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_104655_zps6bpqpqy6.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_104703_zpstwbek3a2.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_104703_zpstwbek3a2.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_104710_zps665tkcmu.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_104710_zps665tkcmu.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_104717_zpsrcfxptla.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_104717_zpsrcfxptla.jpg.html)

Almost ready to desmut. Yes, Moran is smutty and needs to be desmutted.

[John Hearne]

Dude, you NEED a surface grinder. And a jig grinder.
Everything was trued against the axel holes. The hammer was almost perfect.
And at the risk of sounding immodest, I'm not $100 per hour.


It's interesting that you say that. I have a Sig that was worked over by Teddy Jacobson and has a wonderful trigger. When I was discussing the job with him, he said that the standout aspect of his trigger work is that he has jigs for all the guns he works on. The jigs allow everything to be trued which was the key to a really good trigger job.

So, if not $100/hour, what $25/hour? If so, sign me up. ;)

[BLR]

Anodizing is a porous thick film of artifically grown Al2O3 (aluminum oxide, aka alumina, aka sapphire).

These frames are 7075T651 IIRC (might be T6), and are by their precipitate condition hardened. The anodizing does nothing for strength. It does a bit for wear resistance, and a lot for corrosion resistance. Aluminum being one of two self passivating metals does an extremely good job of not corroding beyond a few hundred nanometers of an extremely dense and self repairing oxide layer. However, add a few alloying elements to it, and corrosion resistance suffers greatly.

So:
1. Strength - adds absolutely nothing
2. Wear - adds a bit, not a heck of a lot
3. Corrosion resistance - adds a lot

The EN-W coating will:
1. Strength - add absolutely nothing
2. Wear - add a LOT
3. Corrosion resistance - add a LOT

Answer the question?

[ToddG]

Yup. Basically that I didn't know what I was talking about. :cool:

[Casual Friday]

Yup. Basically that I didn't know what I was talking about. :cool:

Welcome to the club...

[wmu12071]

Bill, thank you for putting your time into this thread. I am nerding out completely every time you post new info.

[BLR]

Yup. Basically that I didn't know what I was talking about. :cool:

Anodizing aluminum is very cost effective. Even cheap $5 flashlights are often anodized. That finish probably cost SIG $10 total per gun.

[BLR]

Just the tip?

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_110640_zpsx1inqvzz.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_110640_zpsx1inqvzz.jpg.html)

Completely desmutted.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_110812_zpsi9chtaln.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_110812_zpsi9chtaln.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_110957_zps9gfrx9aq.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_110957_zps9gfrx9aq.jpg.html)

Next steps, zincate, then nickel.

[ffhounddog]

Bill, I know this is about Todd SIG but do you think there is anything to increase the durability of a P228? All the things you are doing are interesting and is making me want to carry my P228 or P229 that is sitting in the safe.

[Clobbersaurus]

What an amazing thread. Thanks for posting.

I would love to see this kind of in depth tear down and re-build on other major brands as well...would be a very interesting thread series.

[peterb]

Unfinished stampings make me all twitchy.
.

I'd hate to see you with a Mossberg 500. :)

[gtmtnbiker98]

Anodizing is a porous thick film of artifically grown Al2O3 (aluminum oxide, aka alumina, aka sapphire).

These frames are 7075T651 IIRC (might be T6), and are by their precipitate condition hardened. The anodizing does nothing for strength. It does a bit for wear resistance, and a lot for corrosion resistance. Aluminum being one of two self passivating metals does an extremely good job of not corroding beyond a few hundred nanometers of an extremely dense and self repairing oxide layer. However, add a few alloying elements to it, and corrosion resistance suffers greatly.

So:
1. Strength - adds absolutely nothing
2. Wear - adds a bit, not a heck of a lot
3. Corrosion resistance - adds a lot

The EN-W coating will:
1. Strength - add absolutely nothing
2. Wear - add a LOT
3. Corrosion resistance - add a LOT

Answer the question?So let me get this straight, once the "black pigment anodizing" wears away from the frame or is otherwise chipped away, pretty much means nothing to the longevity of the frame? All I've heard for YEARS is that once the silver shows, start monitoring closely. But, of course, nobody stating this has your credentials. If anodizing does little for strength, then why anodize in the first place?

[gtmtnbiker98]

Yup. Basically that I didn't know what I was talking about. :cool:There's an empty seat next to me on the "short bus" just in case you need a ride.

[ToddG]

There's an empty seat next to me on the "short bus" just in case you need a ride.

I'd be proud to.

[Don Gwinn]

So let me get this straight, once the "black pigment anodizing" wears away from the frame or is otherwise chipped away, pretty much means nothing to the longevity of the frame? All I've heard for YEARS is that once the silver shows, start monitoring closely. But, of course, nobody stating this has your credentials. If anodizing does little for strength, then why anodize in the first place?


2. Wear - adds a bit, not a heck of a lot
3. Corrosion resistance - adds a lot


Basically, this is the aluminum version of bluing, yes? We oxidize steel in a controlled way to blue it, so that an even, attractive layer of oxidation is formed, and that layer of oxidized steel slows down the oxidation process so that we can keep it from corroding a little more easily. It doesn't strengthen the steel or increase its wear resistance, but it was worth doing for the corrosion protection (and it looked nice.)
Anodizing does the same--keeps the frame from corroding by oxidation. But apparently if you get Bill interested in your project, you can do better. ;)
You have no idea how much courage it's taking me to post this in this thread. I'm just excited that I feel like I understood something.

[Kevin B.]

I'm just excited that I feel like I understood something.

Don't worry. I do not understand 2/3s of Bill's posts. Basically, everything without pictures. Interesting stuff, though.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Basically, this is the aluminum version of bluing, yes? We oxidize steel in a controlled way to blue it, so that an even, attractive layer of oxidation is formed, and that layer of oxidized steel slows down the oxidation process so that we can keep it from corroding a little more easily. It doesn't strengthen the steel or increase its wear resistance, but it was worth doing for the corrosion protection (and it looked nice.)
Anodizing does the same--keeps the frame from corroding by oxidation. But apparently if you get Bill interested in your project, you can do better. ;)
You have no idea how much courage it's taking me to post this in this thread. I'm just excited that I feel like I understood something.I got that, but man, people all over the Interwebs piss their pants over frame wear on SIG pistols for no apparent reason. I'm one of them.

[bobdavis]

This thread is delivering big time. Thanks for all of the time you're putting into sharing the process, Bill! It's fascinating. I'm not in any line of work that is even closely related to what you're doing, but my inner nerd is loving this.

I love that you're addressing the issues you're seeing with the Sig. One question immediately pops into my mind though. You say you love the hammer, detest the sear - what parts in other "work off the shelf" guns do you love/hate? What part in a Beretta 92 is awesome/detestable? Any thoughts on a CZ? Hi-Power? Just curious.

Thanks again. You're awesome for sharing all of this.

[ToddG]

What part in a Beretta 92 is awesome/detestable? Any thoughts on a CZ? Hi-Power? Just curious.

OMG I see it now, the Bill Riehl Perfects the Hi-Point thread... so full of epic win!

[Suvorov]

Worried about shiny spots on your anodized aluminum frame?

Head on down to your local major airport and look at all those shiny metal American Airlines birds (before they get painted in that horrid new livery). As mentioned by the master hear, bare aluminum quickly builds its own corrosion resistant oxidation layer once exposed to air.

If shiny bare aluminum is good enough for a Boeing with all sorts of hideous riveted lap joints exposed to all that Mother Nature can throw at it, multiple expansion cycles per day, and the extreme temps of FL370 and a Dallas summer; then I wouldn't worry too much about a couple shiny spots on a pistol frame.

[ToddG]

If bare shiny bare aluminum is good enough for a Boeing with all sorts of hideous riveted lap joints exposed to all that Mother Nature can throw at it, multiple expansion cycles per day, and the extreme temps of FL370 and a Dallas summer; then it is good enough for your pistol frame. Just not tacticool.

But only if your pistol is made from aircraft grade aluminum! :cool:

[Suvorov]

But only if your pistol is made from aircraft grade aluminum! :cool:

Well Played Sir!

Well Played!

[TheTrevor]

Dude, you NEED a surface grinder. And a jig grinder.

You are SO not helping. Especially because perfectly good manual jig grinders can be had for fairly reasonable prices.

I draw the line at a CMM setup, though. I'm holding out until I can get an affordable laser topo scanner accurate to tenths. Only half kidding.


Everything was trued against the axel holes. The hammer was almost perfect.

Not going to give up your techniques, eh? I see how it is. :)


And at the risk of sounding immodest, I'm not $100 per hour.

Heh. Nor am I, when consulting in my field of expertise. Just giving an example of typical rates for skilled work once a wizard-type character has defined the process and documented the procedure for the journeyman types to use.

[BLR]

Anodizing is just an artificially thick layer of alumina on the surface. It wears off pretty easily. It also absorbs some lubricants nicely.

Think of it as the aluminum version of parkerizing.

[BLR]

In the warm nickel-tungsten bath.

We'll see how it turns out in about an hour!

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_133913_zps3geal5ey.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_133913_zps3geal5ey.jpg.html)

[Don Gwinn]

So I was still wrong. Feels . . . familiar. Right, somehow.
:sly:

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

[BLR]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_134551_zpsxel8rqvj.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_134551_zpsxel8rqvj.jpg.html)

The KreigerKlenze, err, I mean zincate bath.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140216_134600_zpsp4vcdgbm.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140216_134600_zpsp4vcdgbm.jpg.html)

Checking on the Ni-W plating. Nows the critical time.

[jetfire]

Amazing thread. I hope that someone blogs this.

Tonight on Top Gear: James talks about things...Richard wears a funny hat...and I go for a drive.

[Rich]

But only if your pistol is made from aircraft grade aluminum! :cool:


I think I remember hearing of a space grade aluminum?.LOL


What are the grades and there rankings.

It would be cool to compare lets say Beretta to Sig or even the old 3rd gen S&W.

[BLR]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/17/rameruhu.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/17/ebyhygy2.jpg

The PTFE layer going down.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[BaiHu]

Tonight on Top Gear: James talks about things...Richard wears a funny hat...and I go for a drive.

Brilliant!

Oh, and I second the Bill Riehl's "So You Think You Can Make a Gun" show. Pay per view? Oooh, better yet, paid subscription webisodes through PF?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[JAD]

Yup. Basically that I didn't know what I was talking about. :cool:

Went through the same thing in 1998 when Robar stripped my LWC for NP3. Except my education was in a South African accent and less, uh, refined.

[JAD]

In the warm nickel-tungsten bath.


And remember, nickel tungsten is WIN spelled backwards.

[mbacker_99]

Bill,

Does the removal of the anodizing and subsequent plating cause any tolerance issues? (hammer pin, sear pin, rails, etc)

[tomr]

I think I remember hearing of a space grade aluminum?.LOL


What are the grades and there rankings.

It would be cool to compare lets say Beretta to Sig or even the old 3rd gen S&W.

Pretty good summary right here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_alloy

Some 6000s are heat treatable after machining and/or welding as an assembly - like Klein or Cannondale bicycle frames. But require investment in such equipment for larger structures like those. Thats the T6 part.

7000s are preheat treated but to a level that is still machinable. Also T6. Hence better for small parts or shops trying to avoid investment in substantial heat treat facilities

There's some overlap of steel and Aluminum Rockwell hardnesses with these 2 categories of high quality aluminums. Which is why they can work as a handgun frame. Still not as hard as is required for say fire control parts.

[tomr]

"Does the removal of the anodizing and subsequent plating cause any tolerance issues? (hammer pin, sear pin, rails, etc)"

Ditto, that question. or mebbe, better, how do you protect those tolerances with all this working of part?

[BLR]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/17/yvu8upy2.jpg

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[BLR]

Bill,

Does the removal of the anodizing and subsequent plating cause any tolerance issues? (hammer pin, sear pin, rails, etc)

Not unless you don't plan ahead.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[John Ralston]

.......

[Lomshek]

Anodizing is just an artificially thick layer of alumina on the surface. It wears off pretty easily. It also absorbs some lubricants nicely.

Think of it as the aluminum version of parkerizing.

So one could say that the nano particles of some space age lubricants can fill in the pores?





Couldn't resist! I'm just funnin' ya. ;)

[WilsonCombatRep]

Great thread. Anyone who has ever had an alloy gun plated knows the plating is much, much more wear resistant than anodizing. And yes, smut is a technical term.

[ToddG]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/17/yvu8upy2.jpg

I'm the luckiest girl at the prom!

[tomr]

Bill hangs out over here, if some don't know this. Here's a similar report on Todd's pistol, but with a few more pics and a few more words that help.

http://1911enthusiast.com/showthread.php/1457-Working-on-a-Buddy-s-Gun

[GJM]

Bill, will you be including a microbial in the finish on the Sig?

[Magic_Salad0892]

I'm late to this thread. And this thread is awesome.

[AJZ]

So am I. Sooo awesome!

[BLR]

Bill, will you be including a microbial in the finish on the Sig?

Heh. Microbial.......

Prep'ing springs. Needs polishing.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_084627_zpsxlkbtdwo.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_084627_zpsxlkbtdwo.jpg.html)

Small parts being coated with tungsten. Gonna try out a cobalt finish on the next one.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_094524_zpshllqjpwf.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_094524_zpshllqjpwf.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_095154_zpsosknvgvx.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_095154_zpsosknvgvx.jpg.html)

Should be about 0.0005" of finish on these parts. The next coating will be about the same, which will make up for the loss of dimension from anodizing. Someone asked about tolerance issues (to be accurate, it's really clearance) when doing this. This gun, aside from the barrel to frame fit, wasn't "tight." So there is no worry about parts (especially pin holes) closing up too much.

I'm plating the lone mag right now. I'll put up some pics of the assembled gun shortly, and some range pics (taking it out for the final 250 round function test right after lunch, then it's an overnight trip out to the land of crab cakes).

And to address Todd's comment from earlier - the sear now has a finish on it that measures 75 Rc, so it should be GTG for 50k.

[BLR]

Finishing the mag -

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_101619_zpsbr0jhabi.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_101619_zpsbr0jhabi.jpg.html)

I don't like rough finishes in magazines.

[BLR]

Moran's song:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEllHMWkXEU

Classy, but dark.

[ToddG]

(taking it out for the final 250 round function test right after lunch, then it's an overnight trip out to the land of crab cakes).

Which means I'll literally be picking the gun up on my way home from tomorrow's scan results at Hopkins. So two great things in one day I'm certain!

[Matt O]

Which means I'll literally be picking the gun up on my way home from tomorrow's scan results at Hopkins. So two great things in one day I'm certain!

Hope the scans show positive progress. A tuned gun on top of it will just be icing on the cake.

[BLR]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_104801_zps16j5qsti.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_104801_zps16j5qsti.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_104819_zpsheymyveo.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_104819_zpsheymyveo.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_104824_zpsere5ngzy.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_104824_zpsere5ngzy.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_104828_zpsw3qjmtlg.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_104828_zpsw3qjmtlg.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_104833_zpsxl7chxms.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_104833_zpsxl7chxms.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_104920_zpsniz2dmyq.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_104920_zpsniz2dmyq.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_104953_zpsk8gobyjz.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_104953_zpsk8gobyjz.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_105126_zpsommimvww.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_105126_zpsommimvww.jpg.html)

[JM Campbell]

Looking really good Bill!

Good luck Todd!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

[BaiHu]

Hope the scans show positive progress. A tuned gun on top of it will just be icing on the cake.

Speaking of icing and cake.

Here's hoping for icing, cake, gun and COKE STRONG!!!

2152

[John Ralston]

Is the 2-tone finish being done for aesthetics or do the different colors of finish have different properties that are more appropriate to the frame/slide?

[BaiHu]

Maybe the slide finish is necessary in order to resist MD crab cake grease??

[JM Campbell]

Maybe the slide finish is necessary in order to resist MD crab cake grease??

Whach ya talkin bout Wilace?
That be eco lube and the finest there of this week.
:eek:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

[TCinVA]

The other day I wandered into a local gunsmith's shop. And by "gunsmith" I mean the guy is an actual smith. The shop had 6 CNC machines...lathes, mills, etc. He was working on some custom rifles, and as I walked in he was reworking the receivers and barrels for a couple of builds he's doing for lightweight hunting rifles.

I spent the better part of two hours just talking with him about the finer points of fitting a barrel, including putting a proper crown on the muzzle. One of his 5.5 pound sporter rifles is about $5,000.00...but the one he showed me grouped .13" at 100 yards and .23" at 200. All because of selecting high quality parts for the build and then all the little modifications to make all the parts fit together just so. Every surface had to be exact and true to fit precisely with every other surface it would touch. The carbon fiber stock had to be contoured and weighted just so to achieve the correct balance on the gun with the mounted optic. Meanwhile you can buy a tool that will let you "recrown" a barrel with a drill bit. :rolleyes:

There are a host of details about the way a gun is built that are invisible to the buyer but can still have an enormous impact on the way the gun functions for said buyer. Bill is giving a little bit of insight into these details and the end result is probably going to be the nicest Sig P229 in existence. Because somebody who knew what they were doing went back and took care of all the little details that the factory either overlooked or was unaware of.

This is what you are hoping to get when you spend $$$$ on a custom 1911.

[justintime]

So that finishing hardens the parts too? Sweet - I need to get it done on my sig lol. Expecially since this thread has instilled doubt in my sear and my extractor (since it has already broken)

[Rich]

Bill

Can you comment more about the Long Extractor and how it compares to the original P229 extractor!
Or any recent changed parts that you think isn't a up grade.


Todd

I will take that grip off your hands since you wont be needing it .

[BaiHu]

This thread just keeps getting more fascinating. I'll honestly be bummed when this thread ends. It was definitely worth going past the 5 page limit :p

[BLR]

Assembled pics -

Heading the range. She gobbles up dummy rounds quite smoothly. Trigger...I have no idea. Feels smooth for a DA/SA I guess.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_120145_zpsos0aww6k.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_120145_zpsos0aww6k.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_120401_zpsvpsgrosu.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_120401_zpsvpsgrosu.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_120701_zpsmxwvotne.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_120701_zpsmxwvotne.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_120723_zpscgd4l3ns.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_120723_zpscgd4l3ns.jpg.html)

Should I drag it through the range mud??? Throw it in the river???

Disclaimer: If it functions over the next 500rnds of HST, I'm sending it. I still see flaws and the sort, but Todd needs his hog leg back......... I guess.

[Don Gwinn]

It looks so normal . . .

It really is fascinating, isn't it? I tried to explain this thread to my wife the other night on the way somewhere. I don't think it worked.

[TCinVA]

It really is fascinating, isn't it? I tried to explain this thread to my wife the other night on the way somewhere. I don't think it worked.

Discussions of the proper barrel geometry would bore the living piss out of most people...but I find that stuff fascinating. I find proper engineering in general fascinating, partially because it's what makes the world go around and partially because I'm woefully unqualified to do any of it myself...at least not in any tangible medium.

[ToddG]

You know, I'm thinking maybe I should get a CZ instead.

:cool:

Beyond awesome, Bill, and light years beyond anything I expected.

[Rich]

I just always thought of sig as ugly. but this one looks nice Todd, I like the 2 tone look!

CZ yeah I bet.

[John Ralston]

Discussions of the proper barrel geometry would bore the living piss out of most people...but I find that stuff fascinating. I find proper engineering in general fascinating, partially because it's what makes the world go around and partially because I'm woefully unqualified to do any of it myself...at least not in any tangible medium.

It's not proper engineering that you are seeing...it is proper execution. After having spent 10,000+ hours designing industrial machinery, I can tell you...it is easy to make something quite exacting on a 3D Model and the subsequent Manufacturing Prints...it's a whole nother thing to get all the parts made and fitted correctly. Bill is "Blue Printing" this gun to make up for all the deficiencies in manufacture. Anyone can say "make that flat and square", but in the execution, it doesn't necessarily make it so.

[NickA]

You know, I'm thinking maybe I should get a CZ instead.

:cool:

Beyond awesome, Bill, and light years beyond anything I expected.

Hah, I was just thinking that you'd have to "troll" Bill after all his hard work.

I can't decide which part of this is most interesting- all the work put into it, or that it's all being done basically for fun and to do something nice for a friend. Just a really neat thing to see.
Very damaging to my "grumpy professor" stereotype image of Mr. Riehl, though ;)

[BLR]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/20/abude4az.jpg

50 "first round"

50 weak hand "first round"

5 entire mags emptied weak hand.

0 ftf so far.

Accuracy next.

Ammo is 124 +p HS

Brass is landing on a neat pile at 3 o'clock, 4 feet away.

Apparently I didn't ruin the gun.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[Don Gwinn]

Bill is "Blue Printing" this gun to make up for all the deficiencies in manufacture.
That's what the process reminded me of most, too. "Balanced and blueprinted" engines coming out of little machine shops . . .

[jetfire]

Discussions of the proper barrel geometry would bore the living piss out of most people...but I find that stuff fascinating. I find proper engineering in general fascinating, partially because it's what makes the world go around and partially because I'm woefully unqualified to do any of it myself...at least not in any tangible medium.

It's the difference between James May and Jeremy Clarkson.

[LSP972]

Curiousity gets the better of me… why did you not plate the pins, magazine catch detent, and mag catch retainer plate?

Very impressive work, BTW. A "blue-printed" piece like that makes me feel… inadequate???… with my garden-variety HKs and VolksPistoles. Oh, I probably couldn't shoot any better with it… but just knowing that everything is trued, etc., counts for something, eh?

.

[KevinB]

It's the difference between James May and Jeremy Clarkson.

I have no idea who either of those people are.

More importantly - Bill it looks good, correction awesome, I'm almost interest in a SIG again now.

Todd, I will totally pick you up and drive you to the NRA so you can watch me shoot it ;)

[John Ralston]

Todd, I will totally pick you up and drive you to the NRA so you can watch me shoot it ;)

Now that's a good friend!

[BaiHu]

Now that's a good friend!

A good friend should also acquaint KevinB with Captain Slow and Jezza. Knowing them will make you feel a bit better; almost like watching Bill sweeten Todd's Sig.

[GardoneVT]

I have no idea who either of those people are.

More importantly - Bill it looks good, correction awesome, I'm almost interest in a SIG again now.

Todd, I will totally pick you up and drive you to the NRA so you can watch me shoot it ;)

Jeremy Clarkson punched Pierce Morgan in the face at a UK TV award some years back. For that reason alone, Hes Someone You Should Know.

[ToddG]

I have no idea who either of those people are.

More importantly - Bill it looks good, correction awesome, I'm almost interest in a SIG again now.

Todd, I will totally pick you up and drive you to the NRA so you can watch me shoot it ;)

It's a deal!

[jetfire]

I have no idea who either of those people are.

This makes me have a sad.

They're two of the three presenters of Top Gear. Over the years, May has gained the reputation as the "technical one" who wants to talk about gear rations and minute technical details. Clarkson on the other hand is best known for going 'round corners in a cloud of tire smoke shouting "POOOWWWWEERRRRR".

And also for punching Piers Morgan.

[BLR]

300 rounds of 124g HST +P.

0 FTF/FTE

Wonderfully consistent ejection.

Has broken in quite nicely. Very slick if I say so myself.

I've learned quite a bit about Sigs. Admittedly, after P35s and 1911s, they were my most favored auto loader.

The gun responded amazingly well to some polishing.

The extractor and sear are weak links, IMO.

The frame is well executed.

The slide should incorporate a flat bottom FPS "style" on the slide, rather than the heavy bevel it currently has.

The hammer is wonderful.

The gun no longer push feeds a percentage of rounds.

If I were SIG, I'd invest in improving the ignition parts. At least the sear.

I don't know why they use anything other than the SRT parts and short trigger. I really don't.

This gun needs a over travel stop.

There is a little creep in the SA trigger still.

The gun is easy to shoot w/ the HST stuff, if not a little snappy. (LOL, I can't believe I just said that)

The gun will do 2" or less at 20yrds with 147g XTPs.

I need to work on my 226s and 220s.

Range/tailgate pics to follow.

Todd, I think you'll like Moran!

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_145014_zpsivlygzji.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_145014_zpsivlygzji.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_145029_zpszyoxyjcj.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_145029_zpszyoxyjcj.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_145041_zpsbdu70hfh.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_145041_zpsbdu70hfh.jpg.html)

ETA: 2 tone was chosen by Todd. I'd have finished the whole thing, myself. Some parts (some pins and the mag catch retainer) were left black for some contrast. No other reason.

[BaiHu]

So cool and so fun to watch you work. Thanks so much for putting this together for Todd, Bill. A hearty HUZZAH! from NJ.

[SteveK]

Wow....just....wow. It's been a pleasure to watch this unfold. Even for a novice it's nice to watch and learn the strong and weak points of the various platforms. Knowledge is a wonderful thing. Looks like Todd now possesses the Holy Grail.

[ToddG]

A gun that will be in the NRA Museum some day. But not some day soon!

[FotoTomas]

So sad...after looking at this thread through the pages and seeing what can be done. I sit here with my 229R DAK in my holster, secure in the knowledge that I am prohibited from even taking the grips off much less attempting to in any way improve the government issue piece.

Enjoy the magic Todd, you deserve it.


Time to start counting some pennies I guess.

[BLR]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_143947_zpses9ryfqv.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_143947_zpses9ryfqv.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_143955_zpsm6ylrigu.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_143955_zpsm6ylrigu.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144008_zps4pztkhti.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144008_zps4pztkhti.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144028_zpszivphqlg.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144028_zpszivphqlg.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144037_zpssg0nzl4d.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144037_zpssg0nzl4d.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144115_zpso4sctthc.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144115_zpso4sctthc.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144131_zpsfjygr08s.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144131_zpsfjygr08s.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144140_zps2h7ifdp0.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144140_zps2h7ifdp0.jpg.html)

[NickA]

And I thought I liked two tone 1911's...holy kitten is that a good looking gun.

[BaiHu]

Best leave the 'dirt' in there so Todd will recognize it as his.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[BLR]

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144150_zpsoxnkxnwa.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144150_zpsoxnkxnwa.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144224_zpstgitp0yh.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144224_zpstgitp0yh.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144234_zpsr1r4kutj.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144234_zpsr1r4kutj.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144310_zpstsp0re9w.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144310_zpstsp0re9w.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144340_zps7mohom75.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144340_zps7mohom75.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144503_zpsz1wxf2wp.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144503_zpsz1wxf2wp.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144514_zps63aeae69.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144514_zps63aeae69.jpg.html)

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y491/feral45/1911%20Pics/20140219_144721_zps57innqix.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/feral45/media/1911%20Pics/20140219_144721_zps57innqix.jpg.html)

So, there's a spot on the frame that I didn't see before. Said spot was caused by the blackening solution I'm refining. Todd, when you get your next gun, send it back and I'll correct it. I don't want to hang on to it any longer right now.

I'm a bit bummed by that spot. :|

[ToddG]

That's ok. The ugly glop of JB weld I'll use to make an overall stop will cover that right up. :cool:

[Jac]

That's ok. The ugly glop of JB weld I'll use to make an overall stop will cover that right up. :cool:

I wonder how many kitties just died?

[ToddG]

I wonder how many kitties just died?

Not enough.

Never enough.

[John Ralston]

If I were SIG, I'd invest in improving the ignition parts. At least the sear.



After the truing and polishing that you did, did you have any issues with the surface hardness of the engagement surface? I would assume it is a through hardened part, so I think I know the answer.

[BLR]

Nope, no issues. It was only 20 something to begin with. The W finish is around 70.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[Drang]

This makes me have a sad.

They're two of the three presenters of Top Gear. Over the years, May has gained the reputation as the "technical one" who wants to talk about gear rations and minute technical details. Clarkson on the other hand is best known for going 'round corners in a cloud of tire smoke shouting "POOOWWWWEERRRRR".

And also for punching Piers Morgan.
And using an MP5 for biathlon.

[BLR]

Oh, Todd, gun is coming to you dirty. I didn't think you'd know how to handle a clean firearm.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[John Ralston]

Nope, no issues. It was only 20 something to begin with. The W finish is around 70.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

I must have missed the part where you mentioned that the finish added to the surface hardness. That's pretty cool.

[Savage Hands]

So where do I send my Glock? :cool:

[Dave Berryhill]

...If I were SIG, I'd invest in improving the ignition parts. At least the sear.....

Have you got a time machine in that shop of yours? The machined ignition parts that Sig used to make before they switched to MIM were pretty nice. They still needed some work but were good parts.

I'd still like to finish the conversation that we started a few weeks ago.

[SeriousStudent]

The words "fascinating" and "beautiful" just do not do this justice. Bill, I really do appreciate you letting us watch a time bit of this journey.

Todd, congrats on a tremendous pistol, and wishing you the very best possible news.

[BLR]

Have you got a time machine in that shop of yours? The machined ignition parts that Sig used to make before they switched to MIM were pretty nice. They still needed some work but were good parts.

I'd still like to finish the conversation that we started a few weeks ago.

I treasure my W. German P220. SIG has spent the last 10 years making that gun cheaper and cheaper. :(

RE: conversation - I owe a bunch of people a conversation, lest I'm thought of as a classless guy. Mostly on finishes. A large project is leaving my desk on Friday, so I'm hoping to catch up on this and other things.

Also, I'd like to extend an offer to the members of the forum. If you would like to look at the finish I put on Todds gun, I will coat a magazine tube for you (clean and in decent shape, disassembled) for shipping only ($6 USPS flat rate). Turn around should be less than 1 week. Please use a carbon steel mag tube (MecGars are carbon IIRC). Offer is good for the rest of the month. Email me at bill(dot)riehl(at)blackfireeng(dot)com for instructions.

[Chefdog]

...lest I'm thought of as a classless guy.

If you would like to look at the finish I put on Todds gun, I will coat a magazine tube for you (clean and in decent shape, disassembled) for shipping only ($6 USPS flat rate).

Those two statements certainly seem incongruous to me, seeñyoor.

That's quite a generous offer especially from someone who's obviously got one or two other things they could be doing with their time. Good on ya'.

[BaiHu]

Those two statements certainly seem incongruous to me, seeñyoor.

That's quite a generous offer especially from someone who's obviously got one or two other things they could be doing with their time. Good on ya'.

Seriously generous. I hope you have elves helping you, because you're about to be mag-alanched...or perhaps this will bring new meaning to the word mag dump.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Kevin B.]

Also, I'd like to extend an offer to the members of the forum. If you would like to look at the finish I put on Todds gun, I will coat a magazine tube for you (clean and in decent shape, disassembled) for shipping only ($6 USPS flat rate). Turn around should be less than 1 week. Please use a carbon steel mag tube (MecGars are carbon IIRC). Offer is good for the rest of the month. Email me at bill(dot)riehl(at)blackfireeng(dot)com for instructions.

Forgive me if this was covered and I missed it. What benefit would coating a magazine provide? Corrosion resistance? Better reliability? Something else?

[ToddG]

Both, if the finish is both more protective and slicker.

[BLR]

Correct.

Consistent feeding is, for this and most similar situations, a function of the magazine. The ammo column, especially on a staggered magazine where rounds are funneled (this is why a correctly built single column, ex 1911 or double column, ex AR-15, magazine is inherently more reliable) creates a higher sliding friction condition at the funnel point. The flutes/ridges in some staggered column magazines are there, to an appreciable extent, address this. Reducing this friction allows more of the mag spring force to do it's job - positioning the next round consistently and expediently - rather than overcome the sliding friction of the, what looks to be, matte blue of the magazine.

Big gains to be had there.

Of course, it is worth noting - this gun ran just as well before I touched it as it does now. Ejection is now a little more consistent, but on the whole, none of this was needed. But no one (in their right mind) likes to squeeze a gritty trigger.

[Kevin B.]

Email sent.

[rattler459]

Bill I am new to the forum but i am sending and email about the offer.
If I am to new here I will understand.
Thank you for sharing this post and your observations with us

[BLR]

Bill I am new to the forum but i am sending and email about the offer.
If I am to new here I will understand.
Thank you for sharing this post and your observations with us

Done deal, buddy!

Let's just hope Todd's gun lives up to the hype ;)

Fingers crossed, dude!

[rattler459]

Done deal, buddy!

Let's just hope Todd's gun lives up to the hype ;)

Fingers crossed, dude!

Thank you
I think todd's gun will last and run well for him.

[ToddG]

Gun is here! Going to be my good luck charm in an hour. No pressure, Bill. :cool:

[BLR]

Gun is here! Going to be my good luck charm in an hour. No pressure, Bill. :cool:

Fingers crossed. Good luck, buddy!

[FotoTomas]

This long distance soap opera has me caught up in the story. I am addicted...more...pictures...more pictures...more... :D

[ToddG]

I intend to take a ton of photos tonight.

[Slavex]

very cool thread, and I like the finished look. I see he moved the mag catch over to the right side for you. One good thing if he'd had to really beat the detent plate out and wrecked that side, it wouldn't have affected the moving of the mag catch. I am one of the ones wondering why they've never come up with a better solution to that particular part. When I worked for Dlask that was one of the worst things to machine on his frames (he made Sig copies for years). Why he got me to do it when brand new I don't know.
Through him I "learned" that anodizing was supposed to add strength to the surface of aluminum, thereby sort of an overall strength increase as a unit. I know that there is a lot of voodoo in such statements, at the time I took it at face value.
Wish I could take Bill up on the mag treatment, would love to see the difference between how my gun would feed from a mag treated vs untreated. When you're looking to export your process to Canada, let me know.

Are we doing a deadpool on the gun getting it's first scratch? I know it won't be fired by Todd for awhile, but I bet he manages to do something to it like playing fetch or something....

[mbacker_99]

Sig has made some excellent non-MIM ignition parts in the past. I have an early tool steel SRT sear that has ZERO creep. I have detailed pictures of parts from the late 80s to the new S7 hammer and sear. I will gladly email them to someone if they can post them in this thread.

[hufnagel]

do HK P30 mag bodies count for coating? or just people with SIG's.

[ToddG]

Fingers crossed. Good luck, buddy!

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

[John Ralston]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up.


That is just F'n awesome!

[rsa-otc]

What John said and then some.

[Don Gwinn]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

The hell you say!
I like it better than homeopathy, macrobiotic diets, laying on of hands, and that lady who makes noises to repair auras. The worst it can do is leave you with a slick pistol.

[BLR]

That's awesome news!

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[NickA]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

As much as we deride the "gun as a talisman" thing, in this case I choose to believe that it worked :D
Great, great news TLG.

[Chefdog]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

Awesome dude! Very happy to hear that kinda news :)

[Matt O]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

Awesome!

[buzz_knox]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

In that case, you can make a pitch that 1) your health insurance should pay for Moran and 2) preventive care coverage should pay for Morans for all.

Congratulations on the news.

[BobLoblaw]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

Congratulations! Did Bill polish it with the philosopher's stone?

[SGT_Calle]

Moran the Magnificent, with +7 cancer resistance.... Didn't even have to go to a dungeon to look for it.

[FotoTomas]

Good news and good luck in all things Todd.

[Magic_Salad0892]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

Great news, Todd! Glad to hear it.

[BaiHu]

Moran the Magnificent, with +7 cancer resistance.... Didn't even have to go to a dungeon to look for it.

Awesome news! Congrats to you Todd and I contend that Bill's guns for all would be cheaper than Obamacare. Just sayin'.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[98z28]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

FANTASTIC news. Very happy for you, Todd!

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[B.K.]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

Very cool Sig and incredibly awesome news!

[SeriousStudent]

I am delighted to hear you received an excellent checkup, Todd.

My very best wishes and prayers for continued good health.

[David S.]

Very happy for you sir. Congrats.

[CoGT3]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up!

Best news I have heard all week, the MD in me has been awfully worried! Keep the good news coming!

BTW: nice gun :)

[BN]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

Todd, very good news. :)

[Guinnessman]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

Great news! Have fun with the new blaster!

[Tamara]

Consistent feeding is, for this and most similar situations, a function of the magazine. The ammo column, especially on a staggered magazine where rounds are funneled (this is why a correctly built single column, ex 1911 or double column, ex AR-15, magazine is inherently more reliable) creates a higher sliding friction condition at the funnel point.

Thank you for bringing this up! People look at me like I've grown a second head when I point out that, everything else being equal, a single-stack mag is more reliable and that pretty much all long guns with double column mags, from the Lee on up, use a double-column/double-feed setup. The only reason pistols don't also is for reasons of packaging efficiency, not because of any inherent good qualities of the double-column/single-feed arrangement.

[Tamara]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up.

Ossum. Seriously.

[Slavex]

Nice thread hijack Todd....



But seriously, best news I've heard in awhile, great to hear man.

[Jackdog]

Awesome news, Todd!

[bobdavis]

Awesome news, Todd! That's really great.

[Trukinjp13]

Scan is so good I get six months instead of three to the next check up. Did Bill cure cancer??? Moran was in my shoulder bag, powerful talisman of good!

Thats great news! Also sig looks awesome!!

[ToddG]

2159

Medical report: perfect, thanks to world class experts and world class technology

Gun: ditto

Thanks for all you've done, Bill!

[Erik]

Today was a good day.

[EricP]

Medical report: perfect, thanks to world class experts and world class technology

Gun: ditto

Thanks for all you've done, Bill!


Great on both counts!

[Jay Cunningham]

2159

Medical report: perfect, thanks to world class experts and world class technology

Gun: ditto

Thanks for all you've done, Bill!


That's pretty cool...

[Kimura]

2159

Medical report: perfect, thanks to world class experts and world class technology

Gun: ditto

Thanks for all you've done, Bill!

Good to hear.

[MDS]

Great news, my mom was thrilled to hear it! She has arthritis and will pilgrimage to your next announced afhf to bathe in Moran's healing aura.

:D

[jumpthestack]

The gun no longer push feeds a percentage of rounds.


Can you clarify what 'push feeding' is and what you did to fix it?

[Red Leader]

Wow, great news! Keep up that fight and never give up!

[john556]

Great news!!!

[Timbonez]

Todd, that's outstanding news. I hope in six months it gets even better with Moran by your side.

The pistol looks great too.