Lubricants

[BLR]

I keep hearing and reading various lubricants and finishes "penetrate into the pores of the metal."

How the heck did this get started? Does anyone actually think their gun has pores at its surface? Just for the sake of argument, lets say it does have microscopic pores (it doesn't). And lets say the lube/finish (usually an epoxy based finish that continues to offer "corrosion protection" after it has worn off) does penetrate said pores....that mean the lubricant needs to have nearly no surface tension and no viscosity, both of which are necessary to act as a film layer lubricant. And if said oil has such a low viscosity, it will need to have a low molecular weight, meaning it will evaporate quickly. And this argument ignores the fact that the lubricant will need to overcome the bubble pressure of those microscopic pores before penetrating them (not gonna happen).

I want to rub sand in the eyes of the person who got this started. Coarse sand.

[Chuck Haggard]

I don't have the back ground to scientifically refute some of that, but the "pores" thing I knew to be BS.

Kind of like how springs can "rest", as though they are a muscle and can heal up after being worked too hard or something.

[LittleLebowski]

I've never thought too much about it, being more concerned with how lubricants handle the corrosive ammo in my 5.45 AR (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2013/01/my-definitive-545x39mm-ar15-article.html). I do know of one industry professional that posted his belief that metal does have pores because when he welds on cold metal, it "sweats." I attribute that to honest observation on his part but I really do think "snake oil" when I hear stuff about "heating metal up to soak into the pores" and whatnot.

[BLR]

I've never thought too much about it, being more concerned with how lubricants handle the corrosive ammo in my 5.45 AR (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2013/01/my-definitive-545x39mm-ar15-article.html). I do know of one industry professional that posted his belief that metal does have pores because when he welds on cold metal, it "sweats." I attribute that to honest observation on his part but I really do think "snake oil" when I hear stuff about "heating metal up to soak into the pores" and whatnot.

It can "look" like that because the heat will lower viscosity, making the lube spread out more.

....I need to go buy some sand. Coarse, I think.

[orionz06]

Are you heating it up in the oven first?

[Chuck Haggard]

Are you heating it up in the oven first?

Some of the lube sellers will tell you to do just that.

[LittleLebowski]

Bill, keep riffing on this so that I can steal your words. Thanks :D

[Keltyke]

A couple of toothpick points of white lithium grease on wear points works well in all my handguns.

[Chuck Haggard]

Example;

http://militecusa.com/firearmsapplication.html

[orionz06]

Some of the lube sellers will tell you to do just that.

I know. I can't stand it. Then it causes people who think their opinion on things is infallible who parrot the silly crap and the rest of the world believes it.

Each and every one of them needs a whack from a shillelagh.

[JM Campbell]

So whats the verdict on Fireclean? Isn't it a "penatrating oil" too?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

[jetfire]

I keep hearing and reading various lubricants and finishes "penetrate into the pores of the metal."

How the heck did this get started? Does anyone actually think their gun has pores at its surface? Just for the sake of argument, lets say it does have microscopic pores (it doesn't). And lets say the lube/finish (usually an epoxy based finish that continues to offer "corrosion protection" after it has worn off) does penetrate said pores....that mean the lubricant needs to have nearly no surface tension and no viscosity, both of which are necessary to act as a film layer lubricant. And if said oil has such a low viscosity, it will need to have a low molecular weight, meaning it will evaporate quickly. And this argument ignores the fact that the lubricant will need to overcome the bubble pressure of those microscopic pores before penetrating them (not gonna happen).

I want to rub sand in the eyes of the person who got this started. Coarse sand.


http://youtu.be/QzBmQMyYDBk

[justintime]

So using my sweet shifter kart chain oil that does not offer pore penetrating properties doesn't hold me back! Sweet

[KevinB]

So whats the verdict on Fireclean? Isn't it a "penatrating oil" too?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

I don't care it works...



I don't want to get into a metallurgy battle with Bill - but if you clean an AR or any other gun for that matter -- wipe it spot less, then let a solvent/lube sit in a it for a week, your going to get more carbon. Steels and other alloys have grain structure - so there is a way for low molecular density materials to get trapped -- maybe not like a pore in human skin - but enough you do not see it / can't get rid of it initially.

[Aray]

If Glocks were made out of cast iron, we could season them in the oven with hog lard.



The discussion of metal coatings that somehow no longer require any lubricants also makes me want to step on kittens.

"Glocks are designed to run dry, never lube them." I've heard this more than I care to remember. Discussions of hydrodynamic fluid wedges or Langmuir Theory is usually met with references to what ther friend in the Army told them or what Pappy used to do.

[orionz06]

Right, people seem to believe from their posts that because the lube spreads around that it is instead soaking in. The fact is, for an AR, that most any lube will work if it is there. So their ritual of tossing their bolt into their daughters Easy Bake and brushing the magic goo all over it works and they feel that supports the false claims.


Too many people who seemed to be above the silliness but into it.

[JHC]

Right, people seem to believe from their posts that because the lube spreads around that it is instead soaking in. The fact is, for an AR, that most any lube will work if it is there. So their ritual of tossing their bolt into their daughters Easy Bake and brushing the magic goo all over it works and they feel that supports the false claims.


Too many people who seemed to be above the silliness but into it.

I enjoy the bliss of just applying the Pat Rogers approach and slather on whatever (mostly Mobil 1 synthetic) and they just shoot and shoot. I stopped thinking about it long ago.

[JBP55]

I enjoy the bliss of just applying the Pat Rogers approach and slather on whatever (mostly Mobil 1 synthetic) and they just shoot and shoot. I stopped thinking about it long ago.

Mobil 1 Synthetic works for me.

[justintime]

Royal purple is prettier

[cclaxton]

Different metals will have a different "pore" structure. There are also metals that are intentionally made with visible pores in them, although I don't know of any guns that use that kind of metal. When you look at the surface of a metal under a microscope it will show the surface has a lot of places where lubricants could occupy space. Here are images of carbon steel surfaces: http://dspace.jorum.ac.uk/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10949/997/Items/T173_2_section15.html

Aluminum, other alloys, tungsten-steel, and other metals will all have different "pore" characteristics. But they all have imperfections in the surface that lubricants could adhere to or occupy.

Some lubricants/protectants focus on displacing water molecules that might be occupying the pores. Others have additives that, after the carrier evaporates, leaves behind a residue that inhabits the crevices and pores and kinda sticks to them, like PTFE or nanoparticles.

Most of the manufacturers of these products keep their lubricant designs secret because of the threat of corporate espionage, and R&D continue in this area...people are always looking for a better lubricant and different applications.

This company had an informative web page: http://www.globalspec.com/learnmore/materials_chemicals_adhesives/industrial_oils_fluids/penetrants_penetrating_oils

I use Slipstream, which is a nanoparticle lubricant combined with synthetic low temp gun oil. I also use ZeroFriction which is a synthetic gun oil that replaces water molecules. I have tried the PTFE types and don't care for them as they don't have a very low coefficient of friction, but they do seem to do an excellent job of protecting the metal from high loads. In pistols the loads are not that severe where I apply the oil, so not an issue. I prefer the less friction.
Cody

[LittleLebowski]

I use Slipstream, which is a nanoparticle lubricant combined with synthetic low temp gun oil. I also use ZeroFriction which is a synthetic gun oil that replaces water molecules. I have tried the PTFE types and don't care for them as they don't have a very low coefficient of friction, but they do seem to do an excellent job of protecting the metal from high loads. In pistols the loads are not that severe where I apply the oil, so not an issue. I prefer the less friction.
Cody

I've used (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2011/09/firearms-lubricants.html) Slipstream.

[BLR]

Different metals will have a different "pore" structure. There are also metals that are intentionally made with visible pores in them, although I don't know of any guns that use that kind of metal. When you look at the surface of a metal under a microscope it will show the surface has a lot of places where lubricants could occupy space. Here are images of carbon steel surfaces: http://dspace.jorum.ac.uk/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10949/997/Items/T173_2_section15.html

Aluminum, other alloys, tungsten-steel, and other metals will all have different "pore" characteristics. But they all have imperfections in the surface that lubricants could adhere to or occupy.

Some lubricants/protectants focus on displacing water molecules that might be occupying the pores. Others have additives that, after the carrier evaporates, leaves behind a residue that inhabits the crevices and pores and kinda sticks to them, like PTFE or nanoparticles.

Most of the manufacturers of these products keep their lubricant designs secret because of the threat of corporate espionage, and R&D continue in this area...people are always looking for a better lubricant and different applications.

This company had an informative web page: http://www.globalspec.com/learnmore/materials_chemicals_adhesives/industrial_oils_fluids/penetrants_penetrating_oils

I use Slipstream, which is a nanoparticle lubricant combined with synthetic low temp gun oil. I also use ZeroFriction which is a synthetic gun oil that replaces water molecules. I have tried the PTFE types and don't care for them as they don't have a very low coefficient of friction, but they do seem to do an excellent job of protecting the metal from high loads. In pistols the loads are not that severe where I apply the oil, so not an issue. I prefer the less friction.
Cody


(Emphasis mine)

Nope. There can be different surface finishes. In which case, the lubricant can fill the valleys of the finish (for example sandblasted vs as machined vs ground vs lapped/polished). However, same point as before. Unless we are talking powdered metallurgy, in which case, porosity is a legitimate and real concern. Of course, lubricants can penetrate into some finishes, like phosphate/park. But these are typically quite soft and are removed along with the finish fairly early on with use. DLC is a unique little situation, where the tens of microns thick finish is somewhat porous, and due to the composition of the finish (sp3 carbon) typically "wets out" with oil. This is why some people who lubricate their DLC finished gun see the oil "creep" or "migrate" from the inside to the outside of the gun. What the "surface is modified and therefore protected/lubricated" salesman are getting this BS from is with boundary layer lubricants. Which only work when the surface finish is of the approximate thickness of the lubricating film. Which is never on a gun.

Most manufactures of these products keep their designs "secret" (from the public) because of threat of exposing marketing BS. There aren't any real secrets, and "R&D" doesn't happen with the people selling these products.

Handguns aren't a tough application, so people get away with snake oil, because even if it comes from a snake, it's still oil.

Full auto BCGs are an entirely different animal. I'm an advocate of BN coatings and dry lubes for that.

[cclaxton]

I've used (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2011/09/firearms-lubricants.html) Slipstream.
Well, two differences: You tested it with an AR platform, and you don't say whether you used the grease or the oil.
I used the oil and used it on a handgun.
I love the stuff, have had no issues with it, and really like the low friction it provides. And, I have been using it for about two years.
Cody

[jetfire]

I use 5W-30. It works really well for all my guns, but I do have to admit it's not great for corrosion prevention. Plus a quart of Shell costs less than 4 ounces of ToadGoo.

[LOKNLOD]

I heart this thread.

[LittleLebowski]

Well, two differences: You tested it with an AR platform, and you don't say whether you used the grease or the oil.
I used the oil and used it on a handgun.
I love the stuff, have had no issues with it, and really like the low friction it provides. And, I have been using it for about two years.
Cody

I used the oil. All you had to was ask :D

[BLR]

I use 5W-30. It works really well for all my guns, but I do have to admit it's not great for corrosion prevention. Plus a quart of Shell costs less than 4 ounces of ToadGoo.

ToadGuts is peppermint flavored olefin. Olefin is a crap lubricant. It's a gummy, plasticy wax.

Engine oil has organo-phosphates and sufates added to absorb combustion water which is quite acidic. Not the type of corrosion protection we want with guns. You'd be better off with non-detergent oil. Like air compressor or lathe/machine oil from Grainger.com

I have a 35lb pail of Pennzoil 0000 urea complex grease I use for just about everything nowadays. Has good anti corrosion additives, excellent tack, and high burn off temperature. My range bag has a 50ml squeeze bottle of it. When the temp is 1F like today, I just carry a Colt.

[jetfire]

ToadGuts is peppermint flavored olefin. Olefin is a crap lubricant. It's a gummy, plasticy wax.

Engine oil has organo-phosphates and sufates added to absorb combustion water which is quite acidic. Not the type of corrosion protection we want with guns. You'd be better off with non-detergent oil. Like air compressor or lathe/machine oil from Grainger.com

I have a 35lb pail of Pennzoil 0000 urea complex grease I use for just about everything nowadays. Has good anti corrosion additives, excellent tack, and high burn off temperature. My range bag has a 50ml squeeze bottle of it. When the temp is 1F like today, I just carry a Colt.

Cool, thanks. I will probably switch to a lathe oil, since I have some of that sitting around as well.

[TheTrevor]

The only actual porous metal I know of, proven to absorb oil, is the cast iron used to build machine tools for the last 150+ years. (As Bill probably suspects by now I know my way around a machine shop.) One of the steps in fully restoring an awesome old piece of precision machinery like this Cincinnati No.2 Mill (http://www.nsmachine.com/12285.html) (sadly, not mine) is to bake it to drive the soaked-in oil out of the porous casting. A beast that size can sweat out quite a bit of oil after absorbing it over 60-80 years.

Last time I checked, my guns didn't have porous iron castings anywhere, so I'm pretty sure I don't buy the whole "soaks in" thing. Don't know why these guys can't pick a more accurate description of how their stuff displaces water, neutralizes surface acidity, and forms a persistent film on the surface of things I want to keep slippery and clean-ish. Probably doesn't market as well, so screaming irrelevancies about pores in your NiB coated BCG here we come!

[ToddG]

I realize I may be an outlier, but my experience as I've related before based on high count count, infrequent cleaning:

Oil keeps my guns running fine.
Grease may keep the rails looking nicer if used/replaced often but if I just want to go 2-4k rounds I end up with a paste full of debris that accelerates finish wear and compromises smooth function.

I tend to oil my guns heavily and then let the excess just flow off over the course of shooting at the range. In fact, more often than not I'm lubing the gun on the range for exactly that reason. But then the gun will easily go 2k+ rounds without getting any lubrication again. It's worked for me for a long, long time.

[BLR]

The only actual porous metal I know of, proven to absorb oil, is the cast iron used to build machine tools for the last 150+ years. (As Bill probably suspects by now I know my way around a machine shop.) One of the steps in fully restoring an awesome old piece of precision machinery like this Cincinnati No.2 Mill (http://www.nsmachine.com/12285.html) (sadly, not mine) is to bake it to drive the soaked-in oil out of the porous casting. A beast that size can sweat out quite a bit of oil after absorbing it over 60-80 years.

Last time I checked, my guns didn't have porous iron castings anywhere, so I'm pretty sure I don't buy the whole "soaks in" thing. Don't know why these guys can't pick a more accurate description of how their stuff displaces water, neutralizes surface acidity, and forms a persistent film on the surface of things I want to keep slippery and clean-ish. Probably doesn't market as well, so screaming irrelevancies about pores in your NiB coated BCG here we come!

(Emphasis mine)

20% carbon!

I'm putting together a nice little van Norman right now to checker front straps with...because no one uses combination mills for anything other than drilling semi-precise holes.

[Drang]

Each and every one of them needs a whack from a shillelagh.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/MGM-51_Shillelagh2.jpg

If Glocks were made out of cast iron, we could season them in the oven with hog lard.
http://thesocialmediamonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/likebutton1.jpg

[Tamara]

I'm putting together a nice little van Norman right now to checker front straps with...

That's bitter-sweet. That's like finding the editor of Audio Snob Monthly listening to MP3s on factory earbuds.

[BLR]

That's bitter-sweet. That's like finding the editor of Audio Snob Monthly listening to MP3s on factory earbuds.

A what? That. What are you? I don't have one of those!

[TheTrevor]

That's bitter-sweet. That's like finding the editor of Audio Snob Monthly listening to MP3s on factory earbuds.

Pfft. Gun hipsters got nothin' on machine tool hipsters, though the Venn circles do overlap a fair bit.

"Oh, that? It's Swiss. Pretty rare, you've probably never heard of the company that made these. They only imported 132 of them to the US back in the late 40's."

[Chuck Haggard]

I realize I may be an outlier, but my experience as I've related before based on high count count, infrequent cleaning:

Oil keeps my guns running fine.
Grease may keep the rails looking nicer if used/replaced often but if I just want to go 2-4k rounds I end up with a paste full of debris that accelerates finish wear and compromises smooth function.

I tend to oil my guns heavily and then let the excess just flow off over the course of shooting at the range. In fact, more often than not I'm lubing the gun on the range for exactly that reason. But then the gun will easily go 2k+ rounds without getting any lubrication again. It's worked for me for a long, long time.

Me too, so double the sample size it appears........

[luckyman]

ToadGuts is peppermint flavored olefin. Olefin is a crap lubricant. It's a gummy, plasticy wax.


Any better alternatives that still share the critical defining toadguts advantage: of avoiding my wife shooting me with my own pistol due to lubricant smell or grease stains since I clean my handguns on the white built in desk in the carpeted upstairs open area of our house?

[JAD]

Don't do that?

[baddean]

This thread is growing as fast as a "what oil should I put in my motorcycle" thread. I have to admit that this one has been much more civil.
Todd's method of oiling it and it runs, works for me.
Lubrication means it runs well, not lubing it means it runs....uh, until it doesn't anymore.
Our basic answer to students who ask about lubing their gun is to use a gun specific oil. Also lube it that way the manufacturer recommends. If it's a carry gun keep it clean and lightly lubed per mfg. If they are going to the range to put several hundred rounds through the gun then lube a little heavier.
We try to keep it as simple as possible.
Bill, When you find the guy who started the whole "soaks into the pores thing" rub some sand for me, will ya.

[Robinson]

ToadGuts is peppermint flavored olefin. Olefin is a crap lubricant. It's a gummy, plasticy wax.

Engine oil has organo-phosphates and sufates added to absorb combustion water which is quite acidic. Not the type of corrosion protection we want with guns. You'd be better off with non-detergent oil. Like air compressor or lathe/machine oil from Grainger.com

Are the non-detergent lathe oils mineral or petroleum based? When I search for non-detergent oils the ones I find are usually mineral based.

[klewis]

Bill, can you give us a brand name or link to something suitable? I'm not asking for an endorsement, just a solid clue for those of us who have no idea what "urea whatever(yak intestine? what?) grease" is. I looked on grainger.com, and they have 8 pages of stuff I can't tell apart.

[Haraise]

This thread is growing as fast as a "what oil should I put in my motorcycle" thread. I have to admit that this one has been much more civil.
Todd's method of oiling it and it runs, works for me.
Lubrication means it runs well, not lubing it means it runs....uh, until it doesn't anymore.
Our basic answer to students who ask about lubing their gun is to use a gun specific oil. Also lube it that way the manufacturer recommends. If it's a carry gun keep it clean and lightly lubed per mfg. If they are going to the range to put several hundred rounds through the gun then lube a little heavier.
We try to keep it as simple as possible.
Bill, When you find the guy who started the whole "soaks into the pores thing" rub some sand for me, will ya.

I really wish there were more motorcycle oil threads. I learned the hard way not to put 'high efficiency' oil in my wet clutch bike.

Just started experimenting with Slide Glide instead of oil and Wilson Combat grease. The 'stringy' texture is interesting.

[jetfire]

I like to look at my bottle of motor oil and ask it each day "are you a lubriCAN or a lubriCANT?"

[ToddG]

I like to look at my bottle of motor oil and ask it each day "are you a lubriCAN or a lubriCANT?"

Bumped your head 250 times into the floor today, I guess...

[jetfire]

Bumped your head 250 times into the floor today, I guess...

It's been a long day.

[Chuck Haggard]

Something like this?;

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-16-oz-Air-Compressor-Oil-HDA10700AV/100096995

[1slow]

I've got oil for my air tools, thanks for the advice Bill.

[Chuck Whitlock]

ToadGuts is peppermint flavored olefin. Olefin is a crap lubricant. It's a gummy, plasticy wax.


Any better alternatives that still share the critical defining toadguts advantage: of avoiding my wife shooting me with my own pistol due to lubricant smell or grease stains since I clean my handguns on the white built in desk in the carpeted upstairs open area of our house?


Bill, can you give us a brand name or link to something suitable? I'm not asking for an endorsement, just a solid clue for those of us who have no idea what "urea whatever(yak intestine? what?) grease" is. I looked on grainger.com, and they have 8 pages of stuff I can't tell apart.

I'm with these two, Bill.

It would be nice to have something without toxic fumes, won't run/stain clothes, and if it does washes out easily.
Those are the reasons I went with toadguts. Used lithium wheel bearing grease before that.

[NETim]

Lubriplate is an old time and widely known name in the lube biz. After reading about the qualities of their food grade greases and oils, it was a no-brainier for yours truly. And since they're not marketed as "gun lube", they're not outrageously priced.

[KevinB]

I'm with these two, Bill.

It would be nice to have something without toxic fumes, won't run/stain clothes, and if it does washes out easily.
Those are the reasons I went with toadguts. Used lithium wheel bearing grease before that.


It's called FIREClean.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/IMG_5064_zps43291e95.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/IMG_5088_zpsda06b4a7.jpg

3,500rds suppressed on a 11.5" 5.56mm gun wipes right off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/IMG_5078_zps1a635cee.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/IMG_5050_zps5da11814.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/IMG_5051_zps5a643600.jpg


Interestingly enough it works on pistols too.

;)

[SecondsCount]

My two favorites are Super Lube synthetic grease and liquid Frog Lube.

Frog Lube has all this silly stuff about heating the gun up, etc. but I like it because it is non-toxic. A little squirt a little on the moving parts and wipe down the metal surfaces. It does seem to loosen carbon better than anything I have used before.

Slipstream grease and oil are mediocre, especially the grease. I have a sample bottle of a very thin version that that they don't make anymore. It works great on folding knives and 22LR actions but wears off too quickly on anything serious.

[KevinB]

FrogLube has some significant flaws -- it may work for minor usage - but will cause significant issues with heavy firing schedules as well as exposure to any sort of dirt/dust.

[Savage Hands]

Bill, what's your opinion on Weaponshield CLP? Here's a link to the msds if you haven't used it http://www.steelshieldtech.com/mainpage/images/stories/pdfs/Weapons.pdf

[jetfire]

FrogLube has some significant flaws -- it may work for minor usage - but will cause significant issues with heavy firing schedules as well as exposure to any sort of dirt/dust.

I would love to hear more about this. I've been skeptical of the stuff for a while, based entirely on their sales pitch.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I would love to hear more about this. I've been skeptical of the stuff for a while, based entirely on their sales pitch.

+1.
Their sales pitch is so much oral flatulence.

The fireclean piques my interest.

[TumblinDown]

Lubriplate is an old time and widely known name in the lube biz. After reading about the qualities of their food grade greases and oils, it was a no-brainier for yours truly. And since they're not marketed as "gun lube", they're not outrageously priced.

+1 Works for me too!

[justintime]

I would love to hear more about this. I've been skeptical of the stuff for a while, based entirely on their sales pitch.

If you keep applying it without cleaning it off it starts getting gummy. It also has been acting really weird on my metal framed pistols in the cold making them super sluggish.

[JHC]

Hilton Yam was pretty complimentary of this product when he reviewed it. I guess I should rate the non-toxic factor higher. http://www.vikingtactics.com/product-p/clp-vt-4.htm

[Chuck Whitlock]

What is the consensus on the Slip 2000 products?
I recall that Greg "Sully" Sullivan recommended them, and samples of EWL and the 725 cleaner/degreaser were included with a BCM upper I got at work.
Although it is a liquid and not a grease product, I'm kinda intrigued that the operating temp is advertized from -110*F to 1250*F. That ought to cover any conditions I may find myself in.

[Chuck Haggard]

Pat Rogers swears by Slip, and he likes to do things like only lube/never clean an AR and run 14,000+ rounds through it.

[justintime]

I love slip 2k it has worked really well for me down at the ranch where it's cold and extremely sandy. I use to buy it from champions in college station and I would still run it if someone had it locally

Aside from various motor oils it's the only weapon lube I had in my shed that survived all the ups and downs in the weather

[ToddG]

Hilton Yam was pretty complimentary of this product when he reviewed it. I guess I should rate the non-toxic factor higher. http://www.vikingtactics.com/product-p/clp-vt-4.htm

I used this for the last bit of my 1911 test and am trying to pick between it and Fireclean for my P229. My initial batch was pre-Viking Tactics days and didn't get along well with the non-toxic primer residue from the practice ammo I was using, but they'd already reformulated and sent me some of the "new stuff" that worked just fine. It's much higher viscosity than most oils so perhaps it fills a gap between traditional oil and grease. It's difficult for me to compare too fairly because I was much more stringent about oiling the 1911 than I ever was with anything else.

I know Julie Golob is sponsored by Rand now and she had a pretty neat video up on Youtube of how it remained viable at -22F. Then again, Julie is crazy and lives somewhere that shooting in -22F is a "thing" one might actually do, like, on purpose. But between Julie and Lamb you've got just about the entire gamut of shooting and guns covered and that's a lot of recommendation.

[Dagga Boy]

At this point I am using either Fireclean or Slip2000. Both have been outstanding. The vehicle gets Mobil 1, and its Astroglide for the really important stuff.

[1slow]

Important like trying to fit a .45acp in a 9mm chamber ?

[ToddG]

OK, back to firearms discussion please.

[md8232]

[QUOTE=Aray;199792]If Glocks were made out of cast iron, we could season them in the oven with hog lard.......

Or bacon grease, mmmmm

[Lomshek]

What is the consensus on the Slip 2000 products?
I recall that Greg "Sully" Sullivan recommended them, and samples of EWL and the 725 cleaner/degreaser were included with a BCM upper I got at work.
Although it is a liquid and not a grease product, I'm kinda intrigued that the operating temp is advertized from -110*F to 1250*F. That ought to cover any conditions I may find myself in.

I wasn't too impressed with the Slip citrus cleaner but Slip 2K and EWL were great. I normally use Tri-Flow just because it's what I have in my bicycle shop and have oodles of it around. Tri-Flow has been my go-to for years as I try one miracle lube after another and return to Tri-Flow (even tried the easy bake method with mili-tec once).

Tri-Flow and Slip 2K seem to have a near identical viscosity while EWL is a good bit thicker. I've used Tri-Flow from -8F to +110F in everything from Appleseeds (.22LR 500 round/day) to 3 gun stuff. Gonna have to try FireClean after seeing Kevin's post.

At -8 Tri-Flow maintained almost identical viscosity (if that's the right word) in a drip/run test to room temp Tri-Flow. I don't see myself going much colder or hotter than those temps but don't doubt it and the Slip products could handle a lot more.


I enjoy the bliss of just applying the Pat Rogers approach and slather on whatever (mostly Mobil 1 synthetic) and they just shoot and shoot. I stopped thinking about it long ago.

And then there's this approach that works great (as long as it's legit lube).

[TheTrevor]

Or bacon grease, mmmmm

Believe it or not, bacon grease is actually an excellent brush-on lubricant for lathe operations. It's applied to the workpiece (not used to lube the machine) and it smells like breakfast.

Downside: rancid bacon grease is extremely nasty.

[BLR]

I'm with these two, Bill.


LPS has a huge line of food grade lubricants. Including a white grease. Lubriplate has a line of soft/semi-fluid greases. MilComm 25 is a favorite of mine. Wilson Ultimate line is (high priced) urea greases of a great viscosity range. CLPs don't lubricate well, but prevent corrosion nicely.

The actual lubricant used really doesn't matter all that much. It's the bald-faced lies that are getting under my skin.

[BLR]

Believe it or not, bacon grease is actually an excellent brush-on lubricant for lathe operations. It's applied to the workpiece (not used to lube the machine) and it smells like breakfast.

Downside: rancid bacon grease is extremely nasty.

A cutting lube and a machine lube have drastically different criteria.

[LSP972]

Believe it or not, bacon grease is actually an excellent brush-on lubricant for lathe operations.

One of the culture shocks I faced when I came to work at the crime lab was examining/test-firing your basic Lorcin, or Hi-Point, or Davis, or Jennings (and sometimes a Glock or Stigma) that homie had lubed with the same Crisco his baby-momma used to fry up his yardbird.

Interestingly enough, it works great... for a day or two. Then it congeals.

I found out, real quick, why this lab buys spray brake cleaner by the case....

.

[Wayne Dobbs]

LSP972,

You may have to explain "yardbird" to the Yankees and cultured members of the board...

[Guinnessman]

I have been using Shooters Choice Grease or Slip for a couple of years now. But, for the real serious stuff I use this: http://shop.tacticalshit.com/liberal-tears-gun-oil?acc=aab3238922bcc25a6f606eb525ffdc56

:)

[Laughingdog]

[QUOTE=Aray;199792]If Glocks were made out of cast iron, we could season them in the oven with hog lard.......

Or bacon grease, mmmmm

Actually, every major cast iron cook ware brand has instructions on their site explaining what's being accomplished by seasoning your cast iron. There are no "pores" in the metal and the oil is not being absorbed into the metal. Baking the oil/grease polymerizes the oil/grease. If you put on too thick a coat before baking it, polymerization will not occur. I'd imagine any number of other common lubes could be used to essentially "season" the wear surfaces on a handgun as well. You'd just need to know the appropriate temperature range for that oil/grease to make it occur.

[SecondsCount]

FrogLube has some significant flaws -- it may work for minor usage - but will cause significant issues with heavy firing schedules as well as exposure to any sort of dirt/dust.
More detail would be appreciated.

[ST911]

What is the consensus on the Slip 2000 products?

The Slip products are GTG. The EWL is especially good at staying in place and going the distance. It also works well in the cold (-0 F).

[John Ralston]

and its Astroglide for the really important stuff.

Glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I just read that...

[goosehunter]

For those that like how "stringy" Slide Glide is. I bought a tube of Lucas Oil's RednTacky. I've never had it slow down in the cold but I also cut it with a little bit of synthetic trans fluid.

My buddy out in Virginia shoots outdoors year round with a pair of Custom CZ's without issue.

[jetfire]

LSP972,

You may have to explain "yardbird" to the Yankees and cultured members of the board...

I'm never sure what makes someone a Yankee or not.

[John Ralston]

For those that like how "stringy" Slide Glide is. I bought a tube of Lucas Oil's RednTacky. I've never had it slow down in the cold but I also cut it with a little bit of synthetic trans fluid.

My buddy out in Virginia shoots outdoors year round with a pair of Custom CZ's without issue.

Their synthetic oil stabilizer is pretty stringy too, if you need something that is going to stay put. I use it on my sewing machine gear shafts (or chainsaw bar oil, which is stringy too).

[LSP972]

LSP972,

You may have to explain "yardbird" to the Yankees and cultured members of the board...

:D

.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Perusing the net last night I found out that Slip 2000 also has a grease product.
Interestingly, Brownells and MidwayUSA did not carry it, but Amazon does. Same story with Fireclean. Brownells and Amazon carry the Rand CLP. I don't normally think of Amazon when I go searching for this stuff.

[SecondsCount]

...Tri-Flow has been my go-to for years as I try one miracle lube after another and return to Tri-Flow (even tried the easy bake method with mili-tec once).

I used Tri-Flow years ago but it started to separate in the bottle and I couldn't find a replacement. The local hobby shop had stopped carrying it and I just figured the company went out of business.

From what I remember it was good stuff.

[Drang]

LSP972,

You may have to explain "yardbird" to the Yankees and cultured members of the board...

From one Damnyankee to any others who don't get it, chicken.

Unless you're a corrections officer. ;)

[Dagga Boy]

From one Damnyankee to any others who don't get it, chicken.

Unless you're a corrections officer. ;)

Since hanging around with Wayne a lot the last couple of years I know about things like yardbirds, bar ditches, minners, and other important things. Before that, a yardbird was an inmate.

On a side note, having started using Robar NP3 on AR bolts combined with FIREClean or Slip2000 EWL is really a way of keeping things slick in dirty conditions.

[LittleLebowski]

Big fan of Fireclean here.

[KevinB]

More detail would be appreciated.

It cakes really bad - like MilComm 25B can - it effectively dries out and becomes a carbon rock after heavy firing. You can see this happen on high usage guns to the point you need to take a chisel to some parts - any grease tends to be a haven for dust and grit -- instead of being a transporting medium for it to move out of the way - it actually puts out a Vacancy sign and asks crap to come and lock up your gun.

The key thing most people miss in the gun field is as Bill mentioned - most guns do not actually need a lubricant when clean, the surface coatings have good co-efficient of friction and so a lube on a clean gun is generally wasted. However coatings themselves don't work when foreign matter is being deposited.

The times you need lube is when the gun gets dirty and hot.

Dirty either via contaminants from firing, or exterior environmental additives.

The lube then serves 3 purposes -- 1) a conductor for debris out of the way of the bearing surfaces; 2) solvent properties to break up carbon 3) high heat resistance to stop it from burning off and becoming part of the problem.

[orionz06]

4) make money for people who know little about them but claim them to be superior online and in classes

[Lomshek]

I used Tri-Flow years ago but it started to separate in the bottle and I couldn't find a replacement. The local hobby shop had stopped carrying it and I just figured the company went out of business.

From what I remember it was good stuff.

It's a Sherwin Williams product and is stocked by most bicycle shops. The times I've had any separate a good shaking fixed it but I usually go through a few gallons per year so it doesn't sit long.

[BLR]

If Glocks were made out of cast iron, we could season them in the oven with hog lard.



The discussion of metal coatings that somehow no longer require any lubricants also makes me want to step on kittens.

"Glocks are designed to run dry, never lube them." I've heard this more than I care to remember. Discussions of hydrodynamic fluid wedges or Langmuir Theory is usually met with references to what ther friend in the Army told them or what Pappy used to do.

Yes. This.

People who want to run guns dry should be made to eat a large bowl of spider webs.

[JeffJ]

What I've taken out of this thread is:

1. I'm going to continue to use whatever lube I've lately impulse bought while getting other stuff (right now it's slide-glide)

2. Bill is finally catching up on Archer

[Chefdog]

Like air compressor or lathe/machine oil

I've had this http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004PKNXR8 in my cart for a week now, and your comment has convinced me to try it, along with this http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005SEK2VK/ref=pd_aw_sbs_auto_9 which a guy at the NAPA store opened up for me when I asked about Lubriplate 105 (which is way liquid-y-er than I expected). It wasn't quite grease, but a thicker, tacky oil that seemed like it would be good for rails, sears, etc.


The Slip products are GTG. The EWL is especially good at staying in place and going the distance. It also works well in the cold (-0 F).

Anyone like the EWL-30? Before running across the Royal purple stuff above, I was set on trying some as a happy middle ground between oil and grease.

I've come to realize the specific lube doesn't really make a difference, like 9 vs 45, but I've gotta have something to google...

[ToddG]

Stop asking Bill questions. He's busy!

[LittleLebowski]

Stop asking Bill questions. He's busy!

Poor Danny the Intern......

[JHC]

For those who has a lube fail; what did the fail look like?

[TheTrevor]

For those who has a lube fail; what did the fail look like?

Way back in my pre-HK days, I was shooting a friend's (ugly, bloated) Ruger P-series 9mm when we encountered a lube-related hard stoppage. Said friend was relatively new to the whole "owning a gun" thing and had taken the gun-store advice of "don't put too much lube into it" a bit too literally. I think the gun had received a drop or two of oil when he first got it, never been cleaned post delivery from the factory, and had shot 500-1000 rounds of crap-grade range reloads.

I noticed that the slide was cycling sluggishly when I first shot it. By the time we'd made it through a 50-round baggie (no kidding, that's how they sold them) of range reloads, we were getting a FTE every 5-10 rounds. It went downhill pretty rapidly after that -- within ~15 more rounds the slide was dragging so badly that it couldn't even extract reliably, much less eject.

The RO showed the owner how to field-strip the gun, and very generously gave my friend a foil-packet CLP wipe and use of a small bottle of gun oil. A quick wipedown, half-dozen drops of oil in the right spots, and the gun was back to reliably feeding those horribly dirty and underpowered 9mm reloads.

[Sigfan26]

I've had this http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004PKNXR8 in my cart for a week now, and your comment has convinced me to try it, along with this http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005SEK2VK/ref=pd_aw_sbs_auto_9 which a guy at the NAPA store opened up for me when I asked about Lubriplate 105 (which is way liquid-y-er than I expected). It wasn't quite grease, but a thicker, tacky oil that seemed like it would be good for rails, sears, etc.



Anyone like the EWL-30? Before running across the Royal purple stuff above, I was set on trying some as a happy middle ground between oil and grease.

I've come to realize the specific lube doesn't really make a difference, like 9 vs 45, but I've gotta have something to google...

Ewl30 is a pretty good option between grease and oil.

[LSP972]

... a 50-round baggie (no kidding, that's how they sold them)

Why so incredulous? Lots of reloaders dump their product into sandwich bags. I do; 100 rounds per bag, how ever many bags will fit into a 50 caliber ammo can. That gets heavy, fast, with .45s and .40s, but I'm not humping the can anywhere. I just take a few bags out each range trip.

Takes up less room in the range bag and for storage, don't have to worry about keeping up with a plastic box, easier to grab a handful when feeding the UpLula.

.

[TheTrevor]

Why so incredulous? Lots of reloaders dump their product into sandwich bags. I do; 100 rounds per bag, how ever many bags will fit into a 50 caliber ammo can. That gets heavy, fast, with .45s and .40s, but I'm not humping the can anywhere. I just take a few bags out each range trip.

Takes up less room in the range bag and for storage, don't have to worry about keeping up with a plastic box, easier to grab a handful when feeding the UpLula.

.

Oh, I'm familiar with the practice. It was the filthy, much-recycled bag filled with ugly 9mm reloads of dubious provenance that gave me pause. One of the rounds we pulled out had the bullet set so deep that perhaps half of the curve of the shoulder was visible above the lip of the brass.

There's a huge difference between 50 or 100 well-made rounds in bright brass cases, neatly packaged in a clean baggie, vs. the no-this-won't-blow-up-your-gun-really lottery that each of these bags represented. These baggies were sketchy. I swear one of them had bits of stick and resin in the bottom.

[FailureDrill]

Pat Rogers swears by Slip, and he likes to do things like only lube/never clean an AR and run 14,000+ rounds through it.

I have a similar experience with my Colt 6920. In the last three years, it's seen only Slip EWL, based on recommendations of Pat and others. Rifle crested 25000 problem-free rounds and the closest it's come to be cleaned was blasting out the receiver with compressed air after a Magpul class on a particularly sandy/wet range. I don't doubt other stuff is awesome, but EWL flat works.

[Dagga Boy]

Trevor, I had a group show up for a training class when I was still back in California, with that exact ammo. It was a disaster and the worst "commercial" reloads I have ever seen. You know its bad when it looks like they are using recycled bags that are filthy. I forgot what it cost but the employer that sent them was trying to save some money.........it cost us a ton of training time due to all the ammo issues and various failures.

[Corvus]

Synthetic ATF , works for me but not promising anything.

[BLR]

Synthetic ATF , works for me but not promising anything.

That's not the great lube some think. To many viscosity and friction modifiers. Like engine oil.

[JHC]

Way back in my pre-HK days, I was shooting a friend's (ugly, bloated) Ruger P-series 9mm when we encountered a lube-related hard stoppage. Said friend was relatively new to the whole "owning a gun" thing and had taken the gun-store advice of "don't put too much lube into it" a bit too literally. I think the gun had received a drop or two of oil when he first got it, never been cleaned post delivery from the factory, and had shot 500-1000 rounds of crap-grade range reloads.

I noticed that the slide was cycling sluggishly when I first shot it. By the time we'd made it through a 50-round baggie (no kidding, that's how they sold them) of range reloads, we were getting a FTE every 5-10 rounds. It went downhill pretty rapidly after that -- within ~15 more rounds the slide was dragging so badly that it couldn't even extract reliably, much less eject.

The RO showed the owner how to field-strip the gun, and very generously gave my friend a foil-packet CLP wipe and use of a small bottle of gun oil. A quick wipedown, half-dozen drops of oil in the right spots, and the gun was back to reliably feeding those horribly dirty and underpowered 9mm reloads.

Thanks! So that's a fail of no lube. Valuable anecdote. With lube it ran. Any lube probably. I can see how WD40 could fail. I'm a skeptic on anything other than the ultimate lube failing if applied.
`

[LSP972]

It was the filthy, much-recycled bag filled with ugly 9mm reloads of dubious provenance that gave me pause. One of the rounds we pulled out had the bullet set so deep that perhaps half of the curve of the shoulder was visible above the lip of the brass.

There's a huge difference between 50 or 100 well-made rounds in bright brass cases, neatly packaged in a clean baggie, vs. the no-this-won't-blow-up-your-gun-really lottery that each of these bags represented.

Okay. Yeah, unfortunately that stuff is out there.

.

[Jason F]

Okay. Yeah, unfortunately that stuff is out there.

.

Yup... been there, bought that (many many moons ago - lesson learned).

[KevinB]

For those who has a lube fail; what did the fail look like?


I've seen some epic lube fails.

TW-25B burnt to parts - caked as hard a a rock
FrogLube got sandy and turned a pistol to a brick
Militec - gun rusted shut

Several more issues.

Also a lot of lubes will burn to a varnish like consistency which adds a gummy layer of crap that gets everywhere.

[BLR]

I've seen some epic lube fails.

TW-25B burnt to parts - caked as hard a a rock
FrogLube got sandy and turned a pistol to a brick
Militec - gun rusted shut

Several more issues.

Also a lot of lubes will burn to a varnish like consistency which adds a gummy layer of crap that gets everywhere.

You can be an ignorant, dull tool when it comes to handguns and bolt rifles. Just keep it wet and you're good.

Add a DI gas system, rapid fire, and a suppressor, and well, maybe lubrication does matter. Might want to pay attention to the guy with experience in this (*cough*Kevin*cough*)

And just so everyone knows, if you are shooting your AR fast enough to burn TW25, the PTFE is melting/burning and making some very corrosive and dangerous byproducts. Food for thought.

[Chuck Haggard]

Thanks! So that's a fail of no lube. Valuable anecdote. With lube it ran. Any lube probably. I can see how WD40 could fail. I'm a skeptic on anything other than the ultimate lube failing if applied.
`


Short term I have seen WD40 work awesome. It's misapplied as lube, works best for what it's made for "Water Displacement Formula #40", but short term better than zero lube often.
Long term it will turn into what looks like shellac.


Back in the day I "fixed" more M16s and machine guns with a liter pumper bottle of CLP than anything else. People often tell me how bad CLP sucks. OK, but what it's what you have, and you keep it coming, it works really, really well.

I've used CLP, 3 in One oil, Mobil 1, Slip, and a wide variety of other oils and lubes over the years. I've found that, for the most part, one needs lube more than one needs the perfect lube. Sure your race car might run better with Mobil 1 (or whatever the synthetic super car oil is cool nowadays) than recycled 10w-40, but that recycled oil most certainly works far better than running the engine dry.

[Chuck Haggard]

I've seen some epic lube fails.

TW-25B burnt to parts - caked as hard a a rock
FrogLube got sandy and turned a pistol to a brick
Militec - gun rusted shut

Several more issues.

Also a lot of lubes will burn to a varnish like consistency which adds a gummy layer of crap that gets everywhere.


Recommendations for lube that doesn't suck in your experience?

[BLR]

Recommendations for lube that doesn't suck in your experience?

If you burn grease in your AR, I'd start here.

http://www.superior-industries.com/dsf_5000_product_122.html

[Chuck Haggard]

Bill, I've almost never used grease on any gun. As has been noted, I also think oil is more likely to float the crap away from the moving parts instead of gumming up as has been my experience with grease.


I will add that my one experience with running an AR dry recently was with Pat Rogers new #125, he tried an NP3 coated BGC in that gun, it ran well above 1000 rounds dry before things started to grind to a halt. I dumped a few drops of EWL into the normal spots and went right back to shooting.

[JHC]

I've seen some epic lube fails.

TW-25B burnt to parts - caked as hard a a rock
FrogLube got sandy and turned a pistol to a brick
Militec - gun rusted shut

Several more issues.

Also a lot of lubes will burn to a varnish like consistency which adds a gummy layer of crap that gets everywhere.

Excellent! Thanks much.

[Dave J]

I've seen some epic lube fails.

TW-25B burnt to parts - caked as hard a a rock



Kevin, could you elaborate on the conditions that caused that failure? I'm not doubting it, but haven't seen it happen...so I'm guessing my useage wasn't quite as demanding as yours. :)

thanks,
Dave

[JHC]

Short term I have seen WD40 work awesome. It's misapplied as lube, works best for what it's made for "Water Displacement Formula #40", but short term better than zero lube often.
Long term it will turn into what looks like shellac.


Back in the day I "fixed" more M16s and machine guns with a liter pumper bottle of CLP than anything else. People often tell me how bad CLP sucks. OK, but what it's what you have, and you keep it coming, it works really, really well.

I've used CLP, 3 in One oil, Mobil 1, Slip, and a wide variety of other oils and lubes over the years. I've found that, for the most part, one needs lube more than one needs the perfect lube. Sure your race car might run better with Mobil 1 (or whatever the synthetic super car oil is cool nowadays) than recycled 10w-40, but that recycled oil most certainly works far better than running the engine dry.

Yeah it's been Slip and Mobil 1 Syn for many years now. Whichever is within reach for pistols and ARs including decent training volume but not melt handguards volume.

[TR675]

(CLP or Slip) + (zero malfunctions caused by lubricant or lack thereof in the last 5 years) = I don't worry about lube.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'll tell you that the older I get and the more people I know that have ended up with cancer the more I start to pay attention to some of the "non-toxic" stuff.

[BLR]

Bill, I've almost never used grease on any gun. As has been noted, I also think oil is more likely to float the crap away from the moving parts instead of gumming up as has been my experience with grease.


I will add that my one experience with running an AR dry recently was with Pat Rogers new #125, he tried an NP3 coated BGC in that gun, it ran well above 1000 rounds dry before things started to grind to a halt. I dumped a few drops of EWL into the normal spots and went right back to shooting.

Emphasis mine -

That's only true if there is a flow of oil. How long do you think that condition exists? How many cycles before the oil has spread out and you have a rapidly diminishing film lubrication condition?

NP3, just like the finish I'm involved with, will wear away to expose new PTFE/CNTs/BN/DLC. And the coatings are only on the order of tens of microns (50? 75? 100? depends on whose coating), which are not all that robust. All friction spots need lubricant, lots of lubricant.

[TR675]

I'll tell you that the older I get and the more people I know that have ended up with cancer the more I start to pay attention to some of the "non-toxic" stuff.

Agreed that it's something to think about, which is why I try to use nitrile gloves when cleaning, etc., but with my inclination to worry about things like a dog with a chewtoy, I figure my most likely source of getting cancer is stressing out about getting cancer...

I do like M-Pro cleaners as they are supposedly "non-toxic." OTOH, without seeing M-Pro's MSDS and having the background to understand it if I did, I take claims that something is "non-toxic" with the same grain of salt that I do about a new miracle lube's claims. I do have a hard time believing that, lead possibly excluded, shooting inherently exposes you to more toxins than, say, working on your car or bike engine.

I think the only lube I would really trust to be non-toxic are the Lubriplate food quality ones, and I have no idea how well they work. Grant Cunningham, who had a really good article about lubes that mirrors the conclusions in this thread, seems to like 'em. I've never had the chance to test them out.

[JV_]

Non toxic or not, I think it's best to wear gloves. The stuff that's mixing with your non-toxic cleaner, like primer and powder residue, are probably toxic.

[BLR]

Non toxic or not, I think it's best to wear gloves. The stuff that's mixing with your non-toxic cleaner, like primer and powder residue, are probably toxic.

Lead and barium compounds FTW!

[TR675]

Non toxic or not, I think it's best to wear gloves. The stuff that's mixing with your non-toxic cleaner, like primer and powder residue, are probably toxic.

Really good point, and in case anyone reading this isn't aware, latex gloves are not good enough to resist a lot of the chemicals you're probably using.

Nitrile is the way to go.

[joshs]

Emphasis mine - That's only true if there is a flow of oil. How long do you think that condition exists? How many cycles before the oil has spread out and you have a rapidly diminishing film lubrication condition?

Oil definitely lasts for fewer rounds than grease, but it is much easier to add more to restore the flow. Adding grease usually requires field stripping the gun, which is too much like cleaning for me, so I just stick with oil. I do use grease for FCG components though because it sticks so much better, and I pretty much never detail strip FCGs in the guns I shoot a lot. Based on your advice in an older thread, I've been using a polyurea NLGI grade 2 grease for this purpose, and it seems to work really well. It doesn't smell like mint though . . .

[JV_]

I lube with grease. If the gun gets sluggish, or just needs more lube, I just add a drop or two of oil.

[KevinB]

Non toxic or not, I think it's best to wear gloves. The stuff that's mixing with your non-toxic cleaner, like primer and powder residue, are probably toxic.

YUP.


Dave J -- TW-25B, We shipped it with all the SOCOM Mk11 guns as that is what they wanted -- it is a decent lube for certain applications - it does dry out - and cakes with carbon into a new large carbon block fused to metal.
It like any grease also sucks in dirty dusty environments.




Admittedly I am on the FIREClean bandwagon (I'd buy shares if I could), it just in my experience works better than anything else I have tried (and if its out there odds are I have tried it).

Carbon sticks to carbon very well, so if you have a lube than can ensure that carbon never affixes itself to the gun that's a win.


Handguns are often not great lube testing platforms (other than suppressed .22's and 1911's).

I am firmly in the camp of having a good base coating - and then using a good lube.

I need to get my LAV 1911 refinished - but I am waiting for someone ;) to get a blacker coating.

[KevinB]

Also as I near 50 (ugh) I get more and more concerned about what I am putting on my guns - as years ago I basically bathed in CLP in the Army. Now the original CLP with Teflon was removed from service for being a carcinogen...
A lot of the bore cleaners and lubes had significant health causing material in them.

So a non-toxic lube is on my must list -- the advantage is a lot of the bio lubes preform way better than the "legacy" petroleum (OR WORSE) based products.

[ToddG]

I've spent many an evening recently wondering how much my ungloved work with cleaners and solvents and gun oils over twenty years might have been unhealthy.

[Joe in PNG]

After 4 years as a mechanic, the mere touch of brake fluid makes me ill. I'm beginning to like the idea of using food grade lubricant on the gats.

[justintime]

When I was like 12 a friend and I were playing with some clutch dust from a worn out kart part. We were building clutch dust snow men lol. It wasn't until years later that I found out that dust was highly carcinogenic. I'm paranoid as crap now from all the harmful chemicals exc I have played with

[Sigfan26]

Been playing with Rand CLP... The stuff makes slick mud as well (if not better) than Slip2000. I think that the Rand is the better overall lube, but EWL30 would be my overall choice to lube my rifle with initially... Ewl30 is just a bit thick to apply to contacts without disassembling the rifle/bcg. You can just drip the Rand into the action.

[Chuck Haggard]

I've spent many an evening recently wondering how much my ungloved work with cleaners and solvents and gun oils over twenty years might have been unhealthy.

Add another 20 years, a lot more machine guns and such, and you have my worry as of late.

[JHC]

New stuff sinking into my hard head. Rand product, FireClean, nitrile gloves, . . . tangentially - what do you folks think of Simple Green as a cleaner?

[Drang]

what do you folks think of Simple Green as a cleaner?
FWIW, the army told us to stop using it on our helicopters.

ETA: We were using it when doing engine flush/clean. Explanations of why we needed to stop doing so were... sparse.

[rsa-otc]

FWIW, the army told us to stop using it on our helicopters.

ETA: We were using it when doing engine flush/clean. Explanations of why we needed to stop doing so were... sparse.

With what I have seen deluted solutions do to aluminum cleaning rods I think I understand. If you left it on for extended periods or failed to fully rinse, the aluminum's integrity can be jeopardized.

[TheTrevor]

FWIW, the army told us to stop using it on our helicopters.

ETA: We were using it when doing engine flush/clean. Explanations of why we needed to stop doing so were... sparse.

It used to have an active ingredient that didn't play well with complex hydrocarbons, making them more toxic especially to developmental-stage animals. Apparently the bad stuff (2-butoxyethanol) has since been eliminated.

I don't like it, personally, because the smell bothers me and because I've found other stuff to be just as good at dissolving carbon deposits. I might use it if I had a large scale engine clean/degrease job, though, as it's cheap for large volume use.

[JV_]

With what I have seen deluted solutions do to aluminum cleaning rods I think I understand. If you left it on for extended periods or failed to fully rinse, the aluminum's integrity can be jeopardized.
That's my understanding too. Simple Green has formulas that are aluminum safe too, they're just less available than the regular stuff.

http://simplegreen.com/faqs/


Is Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner safe for cleaning aircraft?

Simple Green manufactures a product specifically designed for use on aircraft — Extreme Simple Green Aircraft & Precision Cleaner. This product was initially developed for use in the aircraft industry and extensive testing shows it to be safe for use on aluminum, plastics, rubber, and high tech alloys, in both normal and extreme temperatures and stress conditions. Extreme Simple Green passed a variety of aircraft industry tests. Testing has been performed by Scientific Materials International, Inc. and is available upon request.



Is it safe to use Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner on aluminum?

When used with caution and according to the instructions, Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner has been safely and successfully used to clean aluminum. Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner, Crystal Simple Green Industrial Cleaner & Degreaser, and Simple Green Pressure Washer Concentrates have been used on aircraft, automotive, industrial and consumer aluminum items for over 20 years. However, caution and common sense must be used: aluminum is a soft metal that easily corrodes with unprotected exposure to water. The aqueous-base and alkalinity of Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner can accelerate the corrosion process. Therefore, contact times for unprotected or unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will allow - never for more than 10 minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be conducted in smaller-area stages to achieve lower contact time. Rinsing after cleaning should always be extremely thorough - paying special attention to flush out cracks and crevices to remove all Simple Green product residues. Unfinished, uncoated or unpainted aluminum cleaned with Simple Green products should receive some sort of protectant after cleaning to prevent oxidation.
....

[Drang]

It used to have an active ingredient that didn't play well with complex hydrocarbons, making them more toxic especially to developmental-stage animals....
Must - not - make - lieutenant - joke...

[JHC]

That's my understanding too. Simple Green has formulas that are aluminum safe too, they're just less available than the regular stuff.

http://simplegreen.com/faqs/

Big help. I know some shooters swearing by it. No aluminum in the guns I've used it on. Everything was so simple in the Hoppes #9 '70's.

[shootist26]

I've been using Slip 2000 EWL for several years. I have been very happy with its performance so far through several high round count classes.

On a related note, does anybody have any experience with Slip's 725 Cleaner? I pretty much use Hoppes #9 for cleaning right now. Wondering if 725 is more effective and also safer

[ST911]

On a related note, does anybody have any experience with Slip's 725 Cleaner? I pretty much use Hoppes #9 for cleaning right now. Wondering if 725 is more effective and also safer

725 is my mainline cleaner. I also use the carbon cutter. Both work very well. The 725 is easy to use, easy to clean up, and has a soapy, non-chemical odor. When used however, you must be sure to relube metal it's been used on.

I haven't bought a Hoppes product in many years. There's so much better stuff out there.

[trailrunner]

A decade ago I used to use Simple Green to clean my bicycle parts. However, I noticed that some of the side plates on my chains were cracking if I left them soaking in Simple Green. Since then, I have not trusted it to clean ANYthing metal.

[Luke]

I've been using royal purple firearm lube. It pretty much sucks. BUT! Any of then fine shootin fellers down thar at tha public shootin spot sey royal purple is the best.

[justintime]

I've cleaned karts with simple green for years. I love it with the only downside being it doesn't protect from corrosion (quite the opposite) I found that wd40 breaks down Lubes/oils around the motor. Those were my two cleaning solutions for everything - but I also cleaned often and never let things sit so...

[ffhounddog]

I wonder who actually makes the Liberal CLP. I kinda want to get a bottle to use.

[trailrunner]

Since I don't think anyone mentioned it, I'll mention my lube of choice. I use TriFlow. It's a light machine oil, but otherwise nothing special and no special ingredients. I buy the small drip bottle with the thin plastic tube sticking out the top, which allows me to place a drop or two exactly where I want it. It's cheap, and between my bikes and guns, a bottle lasts a long time.

[Jaywalker]

Here's the link to the previously-referenced Grant Cunningham article on Lubriplate food-grade lubricants: http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html

Skip over the discussion on Dextron Automatic Transmission Fluid - I think that's for the folks who insist that motor oil is the "best" approach.

I've been using Lubriplate and I like them (grease and oil). Until this thread, however, I hadn't considered the toxic residue from firing that mixes with the food-safe lubricant. Back to gloves again...

[bkent]

Anyone know what the operating temperature range is for Lubriplate's 350-AW oil? I see the SFL0 grease operates under a wide range of temperatures but I'm not seeing any data on the oil.
Thanks,
Kent

[peterb]

Non toxic or not, I think it's best to wear gloves. The stuff that's mixing with your non-toxic cleaner, like primer and powder residue, are probably toxic.

Disposable nitrile gloves are available in most drugstores. If you want a bit more dexterity, the best I've found are the Kimberly-Clark Sterlings, widely available from online EMS/medical suppliers. They're thin but still have decent tear resistance.

I now glove up for all sorts of messy household tasks: paint, epoxy, bike chains, etc. Even if the work isn't toxic, peeling off a pair of gloves beats ten minutes of scrubbing.

[Jaywalker]

Anyone know what the operating temperature range is for Lubriplate's 350-AW oil? I see the SFL0 grease operates under a wide range of temperatures but I'm not seeing any data on the oil.
Thanks,
Kent

Product Data Sheet: https://www.lubriplate.com/PDFs/PDS/8_7-FMO-85-AW_thru_3800-AW.aspx

[CGA]

I have almost-full containers of FrogLube paste and liquid if anybody wants them (free). Same with Slide-Glide Lite and Standard.

Just float me a PM.

[RoyGBiv]

http://shop.tacticalshit.com/liberal-tears-gun-oil

http://shop.tacticalshit.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/_/j/_1_1.jpg

[foxsimple]

Any thoughts on the suspened moly lubes like machine gunners lube or 10-8 lube. I have used them and like it because they dont dry up and stay on the gun after being stored or carried for a while.

[Clay]

My only thoughts are that they are messy to work with and expensive. I don't think guns offer up a very demanding environment in most cases so just about anything will work, it's just a matter of finding something with the traits you prefer, such as safety, longevity, price, etc..

[Clay]

I'm a bit of a gun maintenance snob, simply because I enjoy learning about and trying new products, but I'm also pragmatic and realize that a fancy high-tech lube isn't necessary - it's more of a hobby for me, and I think a lot of other folks too. For this reason I normally recommend common, readily available products for newbies, and higher tech (and price) products when I know someone is wired more like me.

I've tried out most everything out there over quite a few years, and I think I've got a pretty good idea of what works and what I prefer. I try to keep my ego out of it as much as possible, but like anyone with a smidgen of knowledge, I have a strong opinion when it comes to this stuff.

I'll give a rundown of my thoughts of a few of the more popular higher end products, FWIW -

Froglube/Seal 1 CLP - I really wanted to love this stuff. Basically it's a high-tech version of Crisco, and meant to replace Vaseline. It's very safe and smells nice. It has a tendency to pool up in all the wrong areas, and must be applied perfectly to work reliably in all climates. I think most people that tout this stuff would be astounded to see their uber-reliable blaster turn into a Hi-Point in cold weather. If you decide to use this stuff - wipe off ALL excess and don't use any other products to clean or lube. The marketing b.s. with Froglube is over the top. The folks at Seal-1 are much more open and honest in my experience, but in the end both products are very similar and I don't care for them.

Weaponshield CLP - I will say at the beginning that George Fennell is a friend of mine and I've used FP-10/Weaponshield since about 1998 or so. George is a Tribologist and a shooter, so he does know what he's doing, but like any smart guy he has strong opinions. I believe that overall it is the best CLP-type product out there. Safe, no known shelf life, smells nice, offers good protection and great lubrication, and cleans pretty well for what it is - a do it all, easy to use solution. If you want a CLP that excels at the "L" part, this is it.

Slip 2000 - All of their products are very safe to use, and Pat Rogers has shown us that they work well. If you want a non-toxic line of specialty gun care products then here you go. They are a good company to deal with and don't mind revealing test results.

Mpro7 - This is a line of products made by Pantheon who does some of the higher end stuff for Hoppes. It's a good company with line of stuff that seems to be widely available. I've been using their stuff on and off since it came out in about 2000 or so. The cleaner is fairly effective but works best when you have time to let parts soak. To be honest, I think Dawn or Simple Green work just as well as a safe cleaner for most gun parts. The LPX oil is a very good CLP, but has a foul smell, as do all the other moly-based lubes. I think their kits they offer at places like Wal-Mart and Academy are perfect for new shooters.

Lubriplate - Fisk Bros. is a big company that makes a lot of industrial lubes and has been around a long time. They really don't have any interest in marketing to gun folks. I was contacted a few years ago by one of their marketing guys and asked to try out some stuff and give them some ideas for selling a gun care line. It went nowhere. The 130-A calcium grease was spec'd for the Garand rifle. It was designed before lithium came along as a base for grease, and has a pretty limited temp range. It is great in wet weather though, which is what it was meant for. The products touted by Grant Cunningham are food safe lubes that work pretty well, but are expensive and not as effective as Slip 2000. Lubriplate has a ton of good products but most of it must be ordered in bulk, and some is pretty expensive for what it is.

Hoppes - Hoppes #9 cleaner works great but it stinks to me and is pretty rough on your hands. I rarely use it. Hoppes oil is a highly refined white paraffin oil made by Tri-Pac in Michigan. It is non-toxic and works well for most shooters. It will not expire or harden up over time. It's completely overlooked by most shooters because its an old product and is not high-tech, but it is cheap, available, and safe on all guns. Hoppes grease is a waterproof mil-spec grease made by Bel-Ray (Termalene 80) and I like it a lot. Works great for guns in storage, and on the connectors of Glocks. The Hoppes Elite line is made by Pantheon (Mpro7) and works very well.

Ballistol - Invented in Germany in 1904, it is probably the first CLP. It is a medicinal grade white paraffin oil with botanicals and alcohol added. It was first imported by HK, but now it's made here by Washington Trading Co. I like to use it on my DE and straight razors, as it is non-toxic and mildly antiseptic. Great for knives. I use it quite a bit around the house, but not so much on guns. Hickock 45 of Youtube fame likes it, as does Larry Vickers, so there.

Milcomm -I've used TW25-B on and off since it came out in the early 90's. It is a PTFE-based lube meant to replace LSA-T for use on GE miniguns. It is non-toxic and safe on all surfaces. It is expensive and as mentioned earlier it can dry out and gunk up under heavy use. It does work well in all temps and can really slick up a Glock trigger when applied to the trigger bar/connector. It has been widely tested and used and the company is very good to deal with. Gordon Furlong, the inventor, knows his stuff and is a shooter.

Militec-1 - Nothing has generated more hype and forum lube wars than this. It's inventor Brad Giordani has donated a lot of product to troops. It's a very good lubricant and smells good to me. It sucks as a rust preventative and is not a CLP as claimed. IIRC it was first marketed as a chainsaw additive, then an auto additive, and then someone at the DEA thought it was awesome, and on and on. Expensive stuff and may damage some plastics according to .gov tests with the M240B, and MAY cause stress cracking or corrosion on metal due to the chlorinated hydrocarbons, depending who you ask.

Eezoxx - Very good as a rust preventative but will damage some plastics and is not a very safe product. Strong smell. Not for me.

Mobil 1 engine oil - It will work as a lubricant. It is not good at preventing rust and it smells bad to me. I find it doesn't stay where you put it and makes a mess. Great for cheapskates or VERY high volume users, I suppose. I don't get the attraction, but I don't shoot a million rounds a year.

Transmission Fluid - Don't. Nasty, stinky, and stains everything red. I don't care what Grant Cunningham says.

[DocGKR]

I generally use Slip products these days, as they have worked exceedingly well. I also have a bunch of stuff from Lubriplate that is nice. If I run across some free Fireclean, I'll give that a try.

[Spr1]

Nice summary Clay.
With regard to FP-10, I was a fan for a while, until I discovered it would harden into a rock hard adhesive. A collectible handgun stored with it had a number of parts glued together, a rimfire rifle unused for a few years had a trigger group become unworkable, and an AR, used frequently, had a buffer retainer frozen in place. All were scrubbed and cleaned with SLIP EWL and returned to function. I assume Weaponshield is different?
I am a huge fan of SLIP EWL.

[Clay]

I never had any problems with FP-10, but I never used it for storage. I prefer grease for that. Weaponshield is different in that the base oil is synthetic, and some other formula tweaks to improve its cleaning ability and widen the temp range, IIRC.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

[Spr1]

The synthetic base would probably prevent the sort of problems I had.

[Savage Hands]

Weaponshield CLP - I will say at the beginning that George Fennell is a friend of mine and I've used FP-10/Weaponshield since about 1998 or so. George is a Tribologist and a shooter, so he does know what he's doing, but like any smart guy he has strong opinions. I believe that overall it is the best CLP-type product out there. Safe, no known shelf life, smells nice, offers good protection and great lubrication, and cleans pretty well for what it is - a do it all, easy to use solution. If you want a CLP that excels at the "L" part, this is it.


I agree! I love the CLP and WS Grease.


Nice summary Clay.
With regard to FP-10, I was a fan for a while, until I discovered it would harden into a rock hard adhesive. A collectible handgun stored with it had a number of parts glued together, a rimfire rifle unused for a few years had a trigger group become unworkable, and an AR, used frequently, had a buffer retainer frozen in place. All were scrubbed and cleaned with SLIP EWL and returned to function. I assume Weaponshield is different?
I am a huge fan of SLIP EWL.


FP10 has changed formulas many times and is not really like the original formula nor Weapon Shield CLP.

[hossb7]

I generally use Slip products these days, as they have worked exceedingly well.

This.

I got some 1oz sample bottles at SHOT in 2008 and I've been using their products ever since.

[shootist26]

I have been very happy with Slip 2000 EWL.

I just did a low light course today. 500 rounds through an M9. Only lube was the EWL that was on the gun the day before. Never had to relube and had 0 issues during the course.

[Clay]

I've never figured out what Slip 2000 lube is, other than it is synthetic. It looks like maybe a synthetic dental drill oil. Not sure, but it works. Not a magic potion, but an honest product, which is what I like.

I agree with Bill that a basic machine oil, like spindle oil maybe, would be a great starting point for a cost effective lube. All the big players, from Shell to Mobil make this kind of product, but it's mostly available in big containers. A little reading of the product spec sheets would allow you to find something with a good viscosity and temp range for guns. Buy a drum and bottle it in small containers and get rich on Ebay.

As far as grease goes, there are a ton of good choices. I like the aforementioned Hoppes (Bel-Ray) grease, Lubriplate 130-AA, TW-25B, and Super Lube grease because they're all available in small tubes. They all work well and are widely available. I don't care to have a pound tub of grease in my kit, as I don't use a lot of it.

For rust prevention of "in use" weapons, Weaponshield works fine for most circumstances, but one of the best choices is Corrosion-X. It is a non-toxic protectant and lubricant used in the aerospace and maintenance industry. I get it in an aerosol can from Academy in the boating section. I've been using it since 1998 or so. The infamous Dick Metcalf turned me on to it. The company is very good and the test results are impressive. It works as a CLP in a pinch.

For storage of any length, Hoppes grease would be excellent. Plain old Vaseline is surprisingly good and is still widely used in Europe. Corrosion-X makes a heavy duty product in a teal can that would be great for an aerosol option. I really don't have any experience storing guns because I've never done it for longer than a few months while in boot camp, and that was indoors at that. I'm just going by spec sheets and the info I've learned from others when it comes to this.

Just a clarification, earlier I said TW-25B can dry out and gunk up. To be more specific, I think what happens is the carrier oil separates and leaves the solids (PTFE) which then cakes up. It actually separates very easily, even in the tube, and should be "kneaded" before use. This may be one reason why the mil specs for CLP insist on no solids.

[campbed]

Product Data Sheet: https://www.lubriplate.com/PDFs/PDS/8_7-FMO-85-AW_thru_3800-AW.aspx

Right, I only use 350-AW as the oil for my pistols and my AR, and my folding knives. Springs for guns, joint/pivot points for knives. Ha, I bought from a food supply company, got 3 spray cans of the stuff, and now have five life times of supply.

SFL-0 grease, well, I like it better than Mobil-1 (too thick and hard to clean), and TW25b (too expensive and separates and dries out). It too separates, but my real beef is I think it (NLGI grade 0) is too thin. TW25b is NLGI 1, so I've been looking for SFL-1 or SFL-2 grease source that doesn't come in an oil barrel.

I LOVE Mpro7 LPX oil. L O V E I T for my AR. It stays in place, stays wet, and works well. I no longer grease my BCG and just use LPX oil.

So in summary:
Pistols - CLP = Ballistol (Mpro7 cleaner TOO strong for me), Oil = 350-AW, Grease = SFL-0
AR - CLP = Mpro7 (cleaner, LPX oil), Oil = 350-AW, Grease = n/a
Knives - Ballistol cleaner, 350-AW oil

YMMV.

UPDATE: For those Lubriplate fans, they now sell the most popular grease and oil for firearms on their on-line store, IN CONSUMER FRIENDLY SIZES. They made a "Hunting/Firearms" section of their store instead of branding specific firearms products. Makes perfect sense to me.
https://www.lubriplate.com/Online-Store/Rifle-Greases.aspx

[Clay]

I noticed that a while back. Thanks for mentioning it. The prices are a bit steep, though IMHO.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

[Clay]

Lubri-kit sells the Grant Cunningham approved Lubriplate stuff as well. For the price there are better options.


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[MSparks909]

Anyone on here run FireCLEAN? I've been very impressed with the lube so far. Makes cleaning the AR, pistols and shotgun stupid easy. Wipe off and re-apply.

[rekkr870]

Anyone on here run FireCLEAN? I've been very impressed with the lube so far. Makes cleaning the AR, pistols and shotgun stupid easy. Wipe off and re-apply.

I've been running FIREclean. I wanted to see what all the hype was about. So far I am impressed. I might switch from my Royal Purple 10w30. :)

[Rich]

But then the gun will easily go 2k+ rounds without getting any lubrication again. It's worked for me for a long, long time.

This is good to know because I never go over 500rds carbine or pistol.

[Kyle Reese]

Anyone on here run FireCLEAN? I've been very impressed with the lube so far. Makes cleaning the AR, pistols and shotgun stupid easy. Wipe off and re-apply.

I picked up a bottle last week and used to to clean a rimfire suppressor. Works well, as advertised. I've used Froglube, Slip 2000, Rand, Fireclean, etc etc etc. They all work. I've got a bottle of something or other in my range bag, and that works well, when needed. My carry pistols all get Slide-Glide.

[Clay]

Fred, do you change out the Slide Glide in cold weather, or have you had any problems in that regard? I know they make different grades of it depending on your ambient temperature. I've heard a few complaints regarding it's use in colder climates.

I don't use much grease, but when I do I stick with Super Lube or TW-25B when cold, or Hoppe's/Lubriplate when it's warmer.

[Kyle Reese]

Fred, do you change out the Slide Glide in cold weather, or have you had any problems in that regard? I know they make different grades of it depending on your ambient temperature. I've heard a few complaints regarding it's use in colder climates.

I don't use much grease, but when I do I stick with Super Lube or TW-25B when cold, or Hoppe's/Lubriplate when it's warmer.

Clay,
I use the Slide Glide-Lite on my handguns, and haven't had any issues with it in cold climes. Of course, I shoot indoors (mostly), and have had very little outside range time in the last few months. Not sure if that helps. :)

[Clay]

Gotcha, thanks man.

[LangdonTactical]

Pat Rogers swears by Slip, and he likes to do things like only lube/never clean an AR and run 14,000+ rounds through it.

Yeah, I kind of treat my guns like an old truck. I never really change the oil, I just keep adding a little every once and a while.

I am with KevenB on this one. The Fire Clean stuff has impressed me quite a bit. It does wonders in all my ARs and it's magic with my treat it like an old truck way of doing things. If your running a suppressor, it's almost a must have in your AR. IMHO.

[Spr1]

How is Fire Clean on corrosion prevention?

[David S.]

Results of Gun Care Products Evaluation. (http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/141077-Results-of-gun-care-product-evaluation)

I thought this was a pretty interesting product evaluation.

TLDR: FrogLube and Hornady One Shot are his winners.

H/T. (http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-state-of-art-in-firearm-cleaning.html)

Cheers,
David

[orionz06]

Not gonna lie, if Frog lube comes out on top I am not gonna bother reading that filth and will further discount anything coming from that source. Much of the info is great to know but doesn't cover all the bases of concern for guns. Rightly so though, I am sure it wasn't cheap to do what he did but adding heat and shooting would be a significant cost increase. Cold testing of the plate would be cool too, just to see how gummed up some of them get at low temps, much like the cold temps us from PA shoot our guns in.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I wouldn't discount it at all. He tests a particular set of criteria which is probably fairly applicable to his uses.

His uses are not very much like my uses, but that doesn't make his testing invalid.

[orionz06]

That would be 100% correct. That was just my pure hatred for Froglube jumping out. But yes, the things he tests are only a small chunk of what really matters to me making it a poor standalone guide. It is however the most encompassing corrosion guide I have seen. The static friction isn't far from OK but I think I would rather compare each lube how I would use it and the surfaces they're applied to matter a little as well.


But yeah, I shouldn't have dumped all over it.

[guymontag]

I'm a bit of a gun maintenance snob, simply because I enjoy learning about and trying new products, but I'm also pragmatic and realize that a fancy high-tech lube isn't necessary - it's more of a hobby for me, and I think a lot of other folks too. For this reason I normally recommend common, readily available products for newbies, and higher tech (and price) products when I know someone is wired more like me.

I'm happy to see I'm not alone in this world ha! Thanks for the great compilation of comments and experience Clay.



Weaponshield CLP - I will say at the beginning that George Fennell is a friend of mine and I've used FP-10/Weaponshield since about 1998 or so. George is a Tribologist and a shooter, so he does know what he's doing, but like any smart guy he has strong opinions. I believe that overall it is the best CLP-type product out there. Safe, no known shelf life, smells nice, offers good protection and great lubrication, and cleans pretty well for what it is - a do it all, easy to use solution. If you want a CLP that excels at the "L" part, this is it.

My experience with Weaponshield is limited, but I liked what I saw from the product, both in the grease and oil formats. I believe the additives it contains are ZDDP and long chain chlorinated parrifins. After a few weeks of owning the products, a family member needed some gun care products and off my shelf it went. I would buy it again... and yes, the smell is awesome.


Slip 2000 - All of their products are very safe to use, and Pat Rogers has shown us that they work well. If you want a non-toxic line of specialty gun care products then here you go. They are a good company to deal with and don't mind revealing test results.

I do not know much about the composition of it (other than it's non-toxic and lacks PTFE) but it supposedly reduces wear by 90-95% and it certainly has gained a following. I recently purchased some of the EWL and found it to be thin without any discernible odor. I have heard the original non-EWL is a bit more viscous? I like viscous. For an oil, I would probably choose this product or LPX.


Mpro7 - This is a line of products made by Pantheon who does some of the higher end stuff for Hoppes. It's a good company with line of stuff that seems to be widely available. I've been using their stuff on and off since it came out in about 2000 or so. The LPX oil is a very good CLP, but has a foul smell, as do all the other moly-based lubes. I think their kits they offer at places like Wal-Mart and Academy are perfect for new shooters.

I don't know if I would characterize it as a foul smell. I did not notice too much of a smell difference between their "first-gen" oil and the "second-gen improved" oil - it may be due to acclimation as I successfully used their "first-gen" oil quite a bit in the past few years. I believe their new LPX version contains TCP, molybdenum, and PTFE as the additives. MPRO also responds quickly to questions or concerns and has a nice FAQ on their website. I would buy it again.



Milcomm -I've used TW25-B on and off since it came out in the early 90's. It is a PTFE-based lube meant to replace LSA-T for use on GE miniguns. It is non-toxic and safe on all surfaces. It is expensive and as mentioned earlier it can dry out and gunk up under heavy use. It does work well in all temps and can really slick up a Glock trigger when applied to the trigger bar/connector. It has been widely tested and used and the company is very good to deal with. Gordon Furlong, the inventor, knows his stuff and is a shooter.

I bought this after reading Hilton Yam's 1911 user guide, and I likely will not buy it again. It did dry out and gunk up on my 75B after about 1K. I went back to my previous standby Slide-Glide.

Rand CLP - I received a sample of this and wanted to like it due to it's non-toxicity and lubrication properties (contains boron I think). It has nano-particles too, which is what guns crave. Of the lubricants I've tried, it smoothed out the trigger pull on my Glock the most... though it was short lived. After only a few hundred rounds, both .22 and 9MM, I found it to become gritty and needed re-application.

Wilson Combat Grease - A new product, and one that I have but haven't tested. It is not as thick or as tacky as BE Slide-Glide, but it feels similar when applied. It advertises including "the slipperiest substance known to man" in the formulation, so I presume it contains PTFE? Maybe WilsonCombatRep can confirm or deny. A necessary caveat - it is only advised for use on AR15s. However, I use grease on my pistols (and cut with oil when necessary), and I wanted to try using their awesome looking bottle.

Slide Glide - My favorite. It claims to have the EP/AW additives, but I have yet to see a VOA. I'll take it on faith as it's an Enos product. It's quite similar to red wheel bearing grease, and you may be able to get away with using that as a less expensive alternative.

Fluid Film - I've used this on my .22 conversion for a few thousand rounds with no issues, and on my 9MM Glock for a few hundred rounds with no issues. It's basically lanolin and petroleum oil, and mainly used for corrosion protection. Guns were mentioned a potential use, so I decided to try it. If I get a wild hair I may try it on an AR to see how quickly it burns off.

There are my musings of a dudebro.

[Clay]

TW25B can indeed dry out and create a caked up mess as others have mentioned. This can be mitigated by cleaning and lubing more often. It is also a bit expensive. I do like that it has a very wide temp range.

The only downside to Slide Glide that I have seen is that it does have a pretty limited temp range, although on a CCW pistol this is probably a moot point. Bruce Gray is a big fan of it and that might be considered a clue.

The Wilson Combat lubes used to be made by Protec, but they have changed formulations, I believe. I'm sure they're good products.

I tried Fluid Film and didn't care for the smell on my guns. I had some shave cream with Lanolin in it that I didn't care for either. Just me. It is great at rust prevention and a very good lubricant, though. I use it on vehicles and other gear though and it seems to be very long lasting. The Navy has used it for years on ships and stuff.

I wasn't impressed enough with Rand to pay the high price for more than a sample. But then I have a ton of other stuff to use. I'm sure Fireclean lives up to it's claims of reduced fouling/cleaning time, but I don't mind cleaning guns and I don't shoot more than a few hundred rounds at a time, so it's a moot point for me.

For the money it's hard to beat a big can or bottle of Ballistol, Slip 2000, or Break-Free CLP.


Guymontag, thanks for your comments. I appreciate it.

[Refired]

I used this for the last bit of my 1911 test and am trying to pick between it and Fireclean for my P229. My initial batch was pre-Viking Tactics days and didn't get along well with the non-toxic primer residue from the practice ammo I was using, but they'd already reformulated and sent me some of the "new stuff" that worked just fine.
Any decision on this one? In particular, any additional observations on how these products (Fireclean and reformulated VTAC Rand) work with nontoxic primer debris? For that matter, does anybody have any observations regarding products which have difficulty dealing with residue from nontoxic primers?

[JTQ]

For the money it's hard to beat a big can or bottle of Ballistol, Slip 2000, or Break-Free CLP.

Those are the three that I've been using for the past few years. My bottles of BreaK-Free are pretty old, I'm sure they're not the current formulation. Hilton Yam's knock against Break-Free is it require's too much shaking to get the Teflon into solution. I used to laugh at that until I transferred it to some clear needle tipped bottles. It does require a whole lot more shaking that I'd been giving it, especially if it has sat for awhile.

I really like the non-toxic CLP's which is why SLIP 2000 and Ballistol are my primary choices, though I wouldn't be averse to other CLP brands that are also non-toxic.

I recently bought some Wilson Utima Lube Universal mostly because I was buying some mags and threw in a bottle with the order. I think it is a pretty good lube. It works fine, of course so has everything else I've tried.

[leaddealer]

What exactly is fireclean?

[LittleLebowski]

What exactly is fireclean?

A very good CLP (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0084J3CX6/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0084J3CX6&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20). Some of our more knowledgeable people like KevinB and Ernest Langdon swear by it.

[SecondsCount]

What exactly is fireclean?

http://www.cleanergun.com/

On edit: LL was a little faster on the trigger.

[LittleLebowski]

Yeah, I kind of treat my guns like an old truck. I never really change the oil, I just keep adding a little every once and a while.

I am with KevenB on this one. The Fire Clean stuff has impressed me quite a bit. It does wonders in all my ARs and it's magic with my treat it like an old truck way of doing things. If your running a suppressor, it's almost a must have in your AR. IMHO.

For current discussion.....

[Chuck Haggard]

Anyone notice if the Rand stuff is any good? I have seen somewhere that Kyle Lamb was endorsing it as GTG.

[Kyle Reese]

Anyone notice if the Rand stuff is any good? I have seen somewhere that Kyle Lamb was endorsing it as GTG.
Chuck, I've got a bottle of it in my range bag. I've used it on work / student guns w/o issue. It's good stuff.

[orionz06]

What exactly is fireclean?

It's the flavor of the month that works like many lubes before it. Lots of people who got some for free like it.

[Doug]

Anyone notice if the Rand stuff is any good? I have seen somewhere that Kyle Lamb was endorsing it as GTG.

Kyle discusses it here for about 10 minutes during this interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dYa0fTN5Sc

Unrelated note, Also mentions competition training as a way to improve, specifically ipsc.... for those interested.

[orionz06]

Is that a Salient Arms M&P?

[LittleLebowski]

It's the flavor of the month that works like many lubes before it. Lots of people who got some for free like it.

I got a bottle for free and bought another recently.

[Mjolnir]

I like the lower viscosity Wilson Ultima Lube as well. It seems to be a very low viscosity grease mixed with a low viscosity oil.

No issues with it on pistols.

Carbine bolts get a coating and once shooting Slip 2000 gets occasionally squirted in just to keep a bit of oil on my eye protection.


-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[Jim Watson]

Free samples in match goodie bags are wonderful. I am at present running my usual IDPA gun on Brownell's Friction Defense.

Drippings from auto and machinery lube cans are pretty good. I use a good deal of Texas Ox Snot = Mobil 1 + STP and have a can of outdated refrigeration oil for light work.

I haven't paid for a gun lubricant since the Militec craze. And I dumped my bottle of Militec into my big old can of Army suplus Oil, Preservative and Lubricating, Light, after reading that its original application was as a gear lube additive.

[Kyle Reese]

I got a bottle for free and bought another recently.

I bought a bottle of Fireclean the other night and gave it to my old man. He wants an odorless / non-toxic lube to use on his field shotguns (Beretta A400 and a stable of Remington 1100s), so I figured it would be $15 well spent.

[MSparks909]

I bought a bottle of Fireclean the other night and gave it to my old man. He wants an odorless / non-toxic lube to use on his field shotguns (Beretta A400 and a stable of Remington 1100s), so I figured it would be $15 well spent.

I also use FC on my primary waterfowl shotgun (Beretta A400 Xtreme). The Beretta manual says not to use any lubricant on the gas piston because it can burn off, but I've had excellent results with lubing the gas piston, piston bore and magazine tube with FC. I cleaned the gas system after running about 500 rounds through the gun, and the carbon wiped right off. Very impressed. Re-lubed and am going to push the gas system to 1K without cleaning.

[1slow]

I've used Fireclean on my practice guns which are run a lot between cleanings. FC seems to make them easier to clean and is fast to clean with.

[LittleLebowski]

I had a long and truly fascinating talk with Sully of Defensive Edge (http://www.thedefensiveedge.com/aboutus.asp) about lubricants and exactly how the AR15 works. Glad I have plenty of Slip2K from Uncle Pat Rogers :D

[JTQ]

I had a long and truly fascinating talk with Sully of Defensive Edge (http://www.thedefensiveedge.com/aboutus.asp) about lubricants and exactly how the AR15 works. Glad I have plenty of Slip2K from Uncle Pat Rogers :D
I'm a SLIP 2000 fan. No smell, non-toxic, and works well. Since it is no longer the flavor of the month, the price seems lower than the new favorites.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm a SLIP 2000 fan. No smell, non-toxic, and works well. Since it is no longer the flavor of the month, the price seems lower than the new favorites.

Yeah, the price of Fireclean is pretty high.

[chu1222]

Very interesting discussion. Gonna give Slip 2000 a try after being an FP-10 user for many years.

[cclaxton]

I use Slip2000 EWL on the AR, except the hammer/sear area where I use: Shooters Choice Grease goes to -65 degrees F: https://www.shooters-choice.com/synthetic-all-weather-high-tech-gun-grease. For pistols I use Zero Friction http://www.proshotproducts.com/1-oz-SolventLube-Needle-Oiler_p_608.html or Slipstream OIL ONLY http://www.crusaderweaponry.com/#!gun-lube/c16ry (The grease and the gun treatments are crap).

I also discovered that Graphite is great for my kydex magazine holders and inside my shotgun magazine tube for 3gun.
Cody

[Petrov]

Results of Gun Care Products Evaluation. (http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/141077-Results-of-gun-care-product-evaluation)

I thought this was a pretty interesting product evaluation.

TLDR: FrogLube and Hornady One Shot are his winners.

H/T. (http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-state-of-art-in-firearm-cleaning.html)

Cheers,
David

Ok, I may be a pedantic asshole but and I really appreciate what that guy did but I have to nit pick something.
Factor of static friction is nice and all but that gives us less than half the picture.
You need to know the factor of the KINETIC friction too and very often it is NOT a linear relationship.
You have the explosion/hot gasses whatever you want to call it moving the slide/bolt, that energy is going to overcome the STATIC friction.
How much the slide/bolt will move as it loses the potential energy is the domain of the KINETIC co-efficent of friction.

TL;DR there is a difference between kicking the ball and the ball rolling along.

[SecondsCount]

Ok, I may be a pedantic asshole but and I really appreciate what that guy did but I have to nit pick something.
Factor of static friction is nice and all but that gives us less than half the picture.
You need to know the factor of the KINETIC friction too and very often it is NOT a linear relationship.
You have the explosion/hot gasses whatever you want to call it moving the slide/bolt, that energy is going to overcome the STATIC friction.
How much the slide/bolt will move as it loses the potential energy is the domain of the KINETIC co-efficent of friction.

TL;DR there is a difference between kicking the ball and the ball rolling along.

You make a valid point. It was almost like watching Mythbusters. While fun to watch, there wasn't really much data there that could be used to quantify the results.

[Mino]

I personally don't care much for the "CLP" concept as getting the absolute best in all three categories from one product doesn't seem realistic. Cleaning my guns is something I look at as soothing and relaxing and just another excuse to spend time with my guns when not actually shooting. Just taking care of my equipment so it takes care of me. Dedicated products will do.

Protecting is something many "lubricants" will do rather well.

Anything that best protects a tightly fitted 1911 from friction should do well in most anything else. I'd like to know which lubricant has the best lubricity and staying power. Thanks. Peace to all.

[rick9748]

Do any of you guys use Mill-Comm products and what do you think of them?

[WDW]

I bought one of the M Pro 7 kits about 6 years ago...still using the same kit. That and a spray bottle of CLP for the AR which I suspect will need refilling around 2020 or so.

[JTQ]

I bought one of the M Pro 7 kits about 6 years ago...still using the same kit. That and a spray bottle of CLP for the AR which I suspect will need refilling around 2020 or so.
I understand your point, which is why I often scratch my head when folks complain about paying $12 for a 4oz bottle of "whatever" lube, or concoct their own toxic bucket of special lube as a money saving exercise. That 4oz bottle is most likely going to last you through a couple thousand dollars worth of ammo. You'll never notice the $12 you spent on lube over that time.

[LittleLebowski]

Do any of you guys use Mill-Comm products and what do you think of them?

They're fine. If you have some, use it. Pretty much all lubes on fairly modern weapons are fine so long as you.......lube the weapon.

[orionz06]

I understand your point, which is why I often scratch my head when folks complain about paying $12 for a 4oz bottle of "whatever" lube, or concoct their own toxic bucket of special lube as a money saving exercise. That 4oz bottle is most likely going to last you through a couple thousand dollars worth of ammo. You'll never notice the $12 you spent on lube over that time.

It's less about the money and more about the shills and bullshit surrounding the new loob market.

[cclaxton]

It's less about the money and more about the shills and bullshit surrounding the new loob market.
I have found out the hard way that many lubes do not work at cold temperatures. I always check the temperature ratings and won't use them if they don't at least go to 10 degrees, which is the coldest outdoor match I have shot. Most lubes are fine in fair weather. My favorites are still: Slip2000 for AR/AK, ZeroFriction for pistols, and where I need grease: Shooters Choice (goes to -65 degrees).

And, I have a new thing to add to the list: For Kydex mag holders and holsters- Armor-All (the same you use on your car dashboard). When your mags or holster are sticky, use ArmorAll inside them. Graphite not as good.
Cody

[Kyle Reese]

I have found out the hard way that many lubes do not work at cold temperatures. I always check the temperature ratings and won't use them if they don't at least go to 10 degrees, which is the coldest outdoor match I have shot. Most lubes are fine in fair weather. My favorites are still: Slip2000 for AR/AK, ZeroFriction for pistols, and where I need grease: Shooters Choice (goes to -65 degrees).

And, I have a new thing to add to the list: For Kydex mag holders and holsters- Armor-All (the same you use on your car dashboard). When your mags or holster are sticky, use ArmorAll inside them. Graphite not as good.
Cody

I've found that Fireclean has worked very well for me in cold temps.

[breakingtime91]

I have been happy with raND clp. Not the best test but my AR is at 500 rounds and is dirty from diving into prone/supported positions on berms. Still slick as the day I lubed it.

[Jeep]

Pretty much all lubes on fairly modern weapons are fine so long as you.......lube the weapon.

^This.^ Stop worrying about lubes unless you are in bitter cold or blazing sandstorms, use anything that is decent but LUBE THE WEAPON. (And occasional cleanings won't hurt either).

[JBP55]

It varies with different weights but Mobil 1 20W50 V-TWIN is good from about minus 65 degrees to plus 480 degrees.

[orionz06]

It varies with different weights but Mobil 1 20W50 V-TWIN is good from about minus 65 degrees to plus 480 degrees.

That's what everyone used to say before the checks came in.

[JBP55]

A few Mobil 1 numbers.

10W40 (MX4T)
P/P: -65.2 F
F/P: +487.4 F
V/100: 86.0 cSt
V/212: 13.8 cSt
TOR: 552.6 F
VI: 166

15W50
P/P: -49.0 F
F/P: +446.0 F
V/100: 125.0 cSt
V/212: 17.4 cSt
TOR: 495.0 F
VI: 153

20W50 (VTWIN)
P/P: -59.8 F
F/P: +518.0 F
V/100: 130.0 cSt
V/212: 17.7 cSt
TOR: 577.8 F
VI: 151

[orionz06]

But you can't let your kids drink it so it sucks.

[HopetonBrown]

Do you want motor oil and it's carcinogens on your hands instead of the newer lubes that double as salad dressing.

[Suvorov]

Do you want motor oil and it's carcinogens on your hands instead of the newer lubes that double as salad dressing.

As I understand it, motor oil is only really carcinogenic when it is used. Still, I can appreciate the newer non-toxic lubes.

[camsdaddy]

Do any of you guys use Mill-Comm products and what do you think of them?

I have used it for a while. I noticed the other day at the range that the outside of my barrel was dry. I had lubed the gun a week or so prior and had only fired 100 or so rounds. I was a little concerned.

As for cost of lube. I find the bottle leaks all over the place before I ever use it all.

[rick9748]

Would like some feed back on results of using Mill-Comm products.How do they work for you.

[KevinB]

TW-25 is a decent pistol lube. It does dry out though.

I don't get paid by anyone about lubes, but have found FireClean is the best for my requirements


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clay]

Anyone still using Froglube or did it go out of style?

[breakingtime91]

I keep a bottle in my chest rig.. I don't prefer it but if the bottle gets opened for some reason it will not be as messy.. Really not a big deal but after having clp spill all over the inside of a pouch on a deployment, I now prefer a easy clean up option.

[JV_]

I don't prefer it but if the bottle gets opened for some reason it will not be as messy..

Why not use those small individual pouches? It seems like it'd take up a lot less space and be less likely to leak.

I don't know squat about chest rigs or any of that, but it was just a thought.

[breakingtime91]

Why not use those small individual pouches? It seems like it'd take up a lot less space and be less likely to leak.

I don't know squat about chest rigs or any of that, but it was just a thought.

not a bad one, mostly because I already have the bottle and no longer use it. I am pretty cheap and it seemed like a good solution. With that said it has come open once so I tapped it shut, thanks for the idea though.

[RJ]

Anyone still using Froglube or did it go out of style?

The latter. Hell, even us noobs are using Fireclean this month. :cool:

[HopetonBrown]

Lucas Gun Oil $60 a quart. Lucas Motor Oil $9 a quart. And Frog Lube aka Track Lube blows.

[saints75]

Anyone still using Froglube or did it go out of style?

I stopped using this year. It gummed up the trigger on one of my handguns and the slid was gritty. I had it another on handgun. Dust and dirt started collecting around the front sight. I went shooting and FL ran out of the gun and went all over my hands. It was sticking and gross....I stopped using the F.L. and started using Slip 2000 725 and EWL. My guns have been cleaner and running great.

[shootist26]

I'm still on my original 4oz bottle of slip ewl that i bought 3 years ago. I use that and tw25b with no issues.

I have the needle applicator bottles which are great for applying proper amounts of oil with no waste

[JTQ]

I have the needle applicator bottles which are great for applying proper amounts of oil with no waste
If you're talking about the Brownell's needle tip bottles I have those too, but find the needle a little narrow for some of the thicker oils I use.

My favorite bottle is the one Wilson Combat Ultima-Lube uses. I did a mini search trying to find a duplicate bottle to use for the residue Mobile 1/Amzoil I have in their original motor oil bottles.

I couldn't find a 4oz bottle, but did find these little bottles from Darice http://www.darice.com/store/details/catalog/wholesale-basics-toolbox-tools-accessories/1162-16

I found them at Jo-Ann fabrics while my kids were searching for stuff for their craft projects. http://www.joann.com/darice-needle-tip-applicator-bottles/8154767.html

They'll probably crush and leak if not protected in your range bag (my Wilson Ultima-Lube did, but I had put it in a baggie so all was well), but they are much more handy than a motor oil bottle and some of the other crummy bottles some gun oils come in.

[RJ]

If you're talking about the Brownell's needle tip bottles I have those too, but find the needle a little narrow for some of the thicker oils I use.

My favorite bottle is the one Wilson Combat Ultima-Lube uses. I did a mini search trying to find a duplicate bottle to use for the residue Mobile 1/Amzoil I have in their original motor oil bottles.

I couldn't find a 4oz bottle, but did find these little bottles from Darice http://www.darice.com/store/details/catalog/wholesale-basics-toolbox-tools-accessories/1162-16

I found them at Jo-Ann fabrics while my kids were searching for stuff for their craft projects. http://www.joann.com/darice-needle-tip-applicator-bottles/8154767.html

They'll probably crush and leak if not protected in your range bag (my Wilson Ultima-Lube did, but I had put it in a baggie so all was well), but they are much more handy than a motor oil bottle and some of the other crummy bottles some gun oils come in.

Jo-ann's Fabrics. I love it. :)

Thanks for the tip. This is why this forum is so awesome.

[1986s4]

I stopped using this year. It gummed up the trigger on one of my handguns and the slid was gritty. I had it another on handgun. Dust and dirt started collecting around the front sight. I went shooting and FL ran out of the gun and went all over my hands. It was sticking and gross....I stopped using the F.L. and started using Slip 2000 725 and EWL. My guns have been cleaner and running great.

This mirrors my experience with FL and my stock Colt 1911. The FL turned to a pasty, sticky consistency that gummed up the return stroke of the slide. This caused a failure to return to battery.
I am back to my old Enos Slide Glide and Mobile 1.

[Chuck Haggard]

Jo-ann's Fabrics. I love it. :)

Thanks for the tip. This is why this forum is so awesome.

Those JoAnn's look to be the same type of needle oiler that I buy from Brownell's, just throwing that out there for guys who might be making an order and think to tack that on if they need a few.

[JBP55]

The Brownell's needle oilers work great.

[JTQ]

Those JoAnn's look to be the same type of needle oiler that I buy from Brownell's, just throwing that out there for guys who might be making an order and think to tack that on if they need a few.
These are the needle tip bottles I have from Brownell's http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/shop-accessories-supplies/liquid-squeeze-bottles/needle-oiler-bottles-prod44434.aspx

They are much more leak proof than the Darice bottles I got at Jo-Ann's, and they work great for dispensing single drops of lube with very thin oils like SLIP 2000, but the needle tips are a little narrow for even thin motor oils like 10-W30. The Darice bottles are much better for the thicker oils, and since you are cutting the tip, you can select a flow level you want. They are also a little more "squeezable" than the Brownell's bottles so you can get the lube moving a little faster if you want. In addition, you can get a dozen of the Darice bottles for the price of three of the Brownell's needle tip bottles.

I really would have wanted a 4oz bottle like the Wilson bottle, and if I could have found them at Brownell's I would have bought them there, but I couldn't find a similar bottle at Brownell's and just happened upon the bottles while trying to kill time at Jo-Ann's. Now I usually just pick up another bag of the bottles when my wife/kids drag me up there simply to justify my trip. I even gave a bag of the bottles as a gift to my favorite gun store hoping they'd carry them.

[Chuck Haggard]

I must be the only guy who occasionally buys some crap oil to get the bottle it comes in.....

I forgot, the old goes into the butt stock on the M16 oil bottles weren't bad, especially for thicker oils, and they can take a beating in my experience.

[orionz06]

I must be the only guy who occasionally buys some crap oil to get the bottle it comes in.....


Nope. Been there, done that.

[JBP55]

JTQ, I do not know what kind of thick oil you may be referring to but I have used the Brownell's bottles with Mobil 1 in different grades for years and they work great.

[JTQ]

Right now I have Mobil 1 5W-30, Break Free CLP, and SLIP 2000 in the Brownell's needle tip bottles. I find it harder getting even the thin 5W-30 Mobil 1 through the needle tip than both Break Free CLP and SLIP 2000. Those bottles are excellent for dispensing by the drop, but if you want to lay a bead of oil, it is a little more difficult, certainly not impossible, but not as easy as with the Wilson bottle.

In the Darice bottles I have Ballistol, AMSOIL 10W-30, and 50W. Ballistol is very thin and would work pretty well in either bottle, but the heavier weight AMSOIL products flow better through the bigger tip on the Darice bottles. The advantage of this style of bottle is you can set them up to dispense by the drop, a bead of oil, or basically pour it out. Whatever you like.

Don't misunderstand me, if were just talking about bottle construction, the Brownell's bottle is better made. The metal screw on top is pretty leak proof, while with a little effort I could probably squeeze oil through the screw cap on the other bottles. They won't leak if knocked over, but the Brownell's cap is more secure. However, for dispensing lube, I really prefer the bottle Wilson Ultima-Lube II comes in. The Darice bottles are simply the closest thing I could find to Wilson's bottle. I'd rather have the Brownell's bottles if I was lubing tiny parts, such as the inner workings of a mechanical watch, but for lubing a gun, the Wilson bottle gives as much precision as you'd likely ever need and a much better flow rate.

[Chuck Haggard]

http://advantagesupplies.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_38&products_id=766&zenid=8d6f6bcbae984cd463c7a453147abae7

[JBP55]

You must run 1911's. I use Glocks which only need a few tiny drops of oil to run well.

[JTQ]

You must run 1911's.
Correct.

Chuck, that bottle top is much like the one that comes on the SLIP 2000 bottles, and it works pretty well. There are a lot of bad lube bottles out there. I think of that every time I see the FireClean recommendations. Those flip spout tops aren't very precise, and you never seem to get all the lube in the the spout back into the bottle when you're done, and when you flip it closed, the residue runs out. The Break Free bottle is another bad one. The little straw is a little more precise, but is not very convenient. The Break Free bottle is the one that sent me to the Brownell's bottles and made me realize Hilton Yam was correct that you needed to shake up Break Free a whole lot more than I thought.

Chuck Haggard wrote,
I must be the only guy who occasionally buys some crap oil to get the bottle it comes in.....
That's really why I bought the Wilson Ultima-Lube II, to get the bottle. It was either going to be the Wilson or KG gun oil bottle, but I was ordering some Wilson mags anyway, so I bought the Wilson lube. I was trying to find an easy way to use all the spare Mobil 1 from my car and AMSOIL from my lawn mower for lubing my guns and general around the house lubrication. I do like the Ultima-Lube II Universal, so it worked out all around.

[EricP]

Check Amazon for various sized oil bottles with different sized needles. I've tried 18 and 25 gauge needles and prefer the 18. They are usually an "add-on" item.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EZWY3WU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I haven't had any problems with the bottle deteriorating or leaking.

[Savage Hands]

Has anyone here used both Weaponshield CLP and Fireclean? I'm wondering how they compare from the guys here.

[JAD]

You must run 1911's. I use Glocks which only need a few tiny drops of oil to run well.

That must save you a lot of money in bottles.

[Chuck Haggard]

Most of the Break Free I saw was while doing Army training, and that tended to come in the see through bottles. You could see the teflon particles or whatever that was settled in the bottom of the bottle when it sat for a short while. One of my theories about why so many people think CLP sucks is that almost no one would shake it as directed to keep the particle in suspension before applying it to the gun.

[orionz06]

Has anyone here used both Weaponshield CLP and Fireclean? I'm wondering how they compare from the guys here.

Weaponshield worked well for me in all weather conditions.

[Savage Hands]

Weaponshield worked well for me in all weather conditions.

Same here, even when I was shooting in 20 degree weather in Nevada.