My New SIG P229R

[ToddG]

I was asked in another thread why I decided to go to a SIG P229R. While the answer is more about personal needs & preferences, and may include a little "too much information" for some, I figured the thought process might be interesting enough for others and, candidly, it's kind of fun to think it through and put it all down on paper, as it were.

Earlier this month I suffered a medical event which has had some (hopefully short term only) impact on proprioception, fine dexterity, and to some extent overall function of my left hand, especially grip strength and stability. These effects combine from both the medical condition itself and some of the medications I'm taking to counter it.

In terms of the 1911 I'd been faithfully loving for two years, there were some issues that needed address:

weight of the gun
finickiness of my left hand grip on the gun in terms of reliable recoil management and slide lock
the need to shift the gun in my hand to reach the mag release
the need to use my left hand to drop the slide release
the need to be 100% on demand with the grip safety under all conditions, including WHO shooting
the need to be 100% on demand with the thumb safety under all conditions
the finesse the trigger wants to turn in good performance, especially WHO under stress
having a moderately light (4#) trigger when your proprioception is maybe a little off :cool:


So I want something that:

weighs less
has proven easy to grip under a wide set of circumstances without impediment
allows access to the mag catch and slide release without having to give up my master grip or rely on my left hand
doesn't have any on/off switches that might not get activated appropriately under stress
has a trigger that is harder to snatch and easier to roll
has a trigger that is longer and heavier at least on the first shot to help with feedback and safety


I was a TDA devotee for so long and in my heart I've always believed it was the best of all the different compromises (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4212-General-Thoughts-on-DA-SA-Pistols) in terms of a walking around the real world system even if it may take a little more effort to master. And in my current situation, the docs say that dry fire will actually be good for me and making it a little more complex has certain advantages as recovery/rehab.

Essentially, it came down to a TDA HK P30 or a TDA SIG P229R.

Given my extensive personal experience with both, I am not shy about saying I think the P30 is a higher quality gun with much less chance of having some QC issue arise during use. If this was just "buy a gun you can't shoot enough to prove and rely on it," the P30 would be it and the discussion would be over.

There were primarily two factors that made me go with the SIG. First, the trigger -- especially an SRT -- is so vastly superior out of the box and much easier to have tuned a bit especially if you care about reset length. I know I shouldn't care because from a practical standpoint it's all but meaningless but after running sub-.15 splits regularly with the 1911 there's an ego hit I don't want to take right now. :cool:

The second is that Lasergrips are available for the SIG and given that my vision may potentially suffer now or later given everything going on in my skull, having that capability on demand was at least worth planning toward.

It'll be about two weeks before the gun is actually in my hands ready to be used so I don't have any pics. It will then be another two months or so before I'm probably cleared by the docs to do things like drive, and until it's legal/ok for me to drive I don't intend to touch a loaded gun. So there is a solid plan for tireless dry fire in my immediate future while I get reacquainted with the gun that really took me from being a shooter to a good shooter all those years ago...

[Guinnessman]

Todd,

I look forward to reading about your progress with the Sig 229. The Sig 229 was my first handgun, so there will always be a soft spot in my heart for that particular pistol.

Are you having any other work done to the gun? Is a Grayguns trigger job in your future?

Our prayers are with you and your family, and I hope you are back to shooting very soon. Take care!

[Slavex]

anything that can help in the current situation is a good thing. Looking forward to the reports on this gun as you move along through your practice.

[ToddG]

I am having some work done to the gun which I'll discuss in more detail down the road once it gets finalized. The person doing the work isn't an "open to the public" smith and I'm not sure he wants to be mentioned.

The work won't be by Gray though just this morning I decided I was going to try to chase down one of his upcoming triggers as part of the kit if I can somehow get it in time before the action job begins next week. The Gray trigger looks incredible especially if you're going the SRT route as some SRTs have a bit more overtravel than one would ask for.

[LSP972]

Interesting. I too have been thinking long and hard about "going back" to a Sig. That was our brand of choice when my agency transitioned from revolvers 25 years ago, and while I was no stranger to self-loaders then, the P226/P228/P220 was what showed me how to get serious with one.

My problem has been weight. My favored carry piece over the past eight years has been a USPc .45, and then the HK45C. It and a 10 round spare magazine have started to wear me down over a full day of IWB carry. I can still handle .45 recoil, but I know the day when I cannot is coming (I hit 62 YOA last week); so it seems prudent to re-visit 9mm.

My first thought was a P2000SK. Several folks here also recommended that when I first voiced this concern. However, the "finger groove" on the front strap jams my middle finger up against the mag release. I know, easy to grind it off, but conversations with nyeti made me realize that the weight difference is minimal and not really relevant. My Bowie G19 with Docter RDS weighs just 1.5 ounces more than an SK, and has the added value of the optic. But I have become quite fond of of an external hammer as an added safety fudge for a carry piece.

I have been eagerly anticipating the P30SK. Of course, its anybody's guess when one of those will actually be available for sale, so I quit waiting on it. My good memories of the P228 have got me to thinking hard about it, but looking at the situation objectively, it or a P229 SAS would weigh the same (or a bit more) as my HK45C, and be a bit bulkier to boot.

So I'm toting the G19 for now, but not real happy about it. I know, its just a tool.

Still…

.

[JodyH]

Todd is just too proud to admit he's a member of my fan club and since I'm shooting a P229R, he just had to have one.

[ToddG]

The repeated positive performance of current production SIGs reported by members here at PF has very much played a role in my willingness to believe the atrocities I witnessed when I worked there years ago have been overcome for the most part.

[GJM]

Why don't you also get a caliber X Change kit in .357 Sig, so when you are in the mood you can plop the top end on the 229 and carry your favorite cartridge?

I am waiting a few days to make sure someone hasn't taken control of your account, between picking a DA/SA Sig over a P30 LEM, and contemplating a Beretta 1301.

Do you remember your last attempt at advanced math:

HK P30 LEM>Sig DA/SA>P30 DA/SA

[ToddG]

I still think the LEM is easier for the first shot. I'd be hard pressed to justify the longer, heavier trigger pull under normal conditions. In my bizarre case it's both good physical and mental exercise while also adding a level of safety. I dry handled someone's P30 the other day and pulled through the trigger as soon as I grabbed the gun without even knowing I was doing it.

EDITED TO ADD: And regardless, there's the reset issue which I didn't care about with the P30 because it was a practical gun and I could do ~4s FASTs when I was on top of what I was doing. But there's a little part of me that continues to grumble a bit that all this time has passed and they haven't addressed it.

The driving force between the HK and SIG for me here was trigger quality, by far.

[Magic_Salad0892]

I wish they'd make an SAO one so bad.

This isn't going to be the 2014 50k pistol is it?

[ToddG]

If there's going to be a 2014 test, it will be this gun. But for now this is just a dry fire tool.

[Beat Trash]

I've been issued a M&P9 for several years now. My first issued M&P might have had some "love" given to it by one of our armors in the form of polishing a few parts. In 2007, I spent most of the year undergoing two different Chemotherapy treatments. One of the many side effects was a diminished sense of feeling in my hands. Envision the numb tingling feeling when your hand "falls asleep", but constantly.

This caused some concern about carrying my M&P's while off work. Especially as I was not competing, but carrying. Due to my diminished physical condition, I felt it even more important to carry whenever able, should I become a targeted victim of a crime. I have put enough suspects at gunpoint over the years to understand the concept of threat management. Because of this, the idea of a light, striker fired pistol when I may or may not have much feeling in my fingers was a concern.

I dusted off my semi retired S&W 3913 (Original off-duty gun) as it was the only DA/SA gun I still owned, that I trusted.

I have since become cancer free and have returned to my striker fired guns.

While Todd's medical condition is personal and none of my business, I applaud the thought process that has led him to the Sig 229R. Hope all works out for you. Please let us know how the new Sig works out also.

[ToddG]

BT -- Glad you're free and clear of that mess and great to see two minds thinking alike under similar challenges. Congrats on your success and thanks for the well wishes.

[NickA]

Todd is just too proud to admit he's a member of my fan club and since I'm shooting a P229R, he just had to have one.

Definitely a mass migration to SIG by all the PF "cool kids" lately. But since Todd was a SIG guy way back when, I guess he's being a counter-hipster? It's all very confusing to us mere mortals :o

Looking forward to you getting well and putting ridiculous amounts of ammo downrange soon, TLG. Take care.

[Beat Trash]

No problem.

Some things in life are going to suck. But it's just mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter...

[John Hearne]

Definitely a mass migration to SIG by all the PF "cool kids" lately. But since Todd was a SIG guy way back when, I guess he's being a counter-hipster? It's all very confusing to us mere mortals :o Looking forward to you getting well and putting ridiculous amounts of ammo downrange soon, TLG. Take care.

I'm still trying to figure out what I am since I never abandoned the Sig......

[joshs]

First, the trigger -- especially an SRT -- is so vastly superior out of the box and much easier to have tuned a bit especially if you care about reset length. I know I shouldn't care because from a practical standpoint it's all but meaningless but after running sub-.15 splits regularly with the 1911 there's an ego hit I don't want to take right now. :cool:

So, what you are essentially saying is that if there was an SRT kit for the TDA P30, then no other pistol would matter. I agree. If we just knew some engineers with experience designing firearm components. ;)

All kidding aside, I've been trying to figure out if there is a way to get the control latch from the HK45 into the P30, but it doesn't seem doable. I understand that they made the reset longer to qualify for certain contracts, but it seems like it would have been easy to make sure that the control latches were interchangeable to allow the reset on the P30 to be easily reduced by the end user.

[NickA]

I'm still trying to figure out what I am since I never abandoned the Sig......

I'm no expert, but given the amount of money and time others have spent before ending up with the SIG, you just might be a genius :D
I've yet to even get my first one, and it's making me crazy.

[LittleLebowski]

I've been issued a M&P9 for several years now. My first issued M&P might have had some "love" given to it by one of our armors in the form of polishing a few parts. In 2007, I spent most of the year undergoing two different Chemotherapy treatments. One of the many side effects was a diminished sense of feeling in my hands. Envision the numb tingling feeling when your hand "falls asleep", but constantly.

This caused some concern about carrying my M&P's while off work. Especially as I was not competing, but carrying. Due to my diminished physical condition, I felt it even more important to carry whenever able, should I become a targeted victim of a crime. I have put enough suspects at gunpoint over the years to understand the concept of threat management. Because of this, the idea of a light, striker fired pistol when I may or may not have much feeling in my fingers was a concern.

I dusted off my semi retired S&W 3913 (Original off-duty gun) as it was the only DA/SA gun I still owned, that I trusted.

I have since become cancer free and have returned to my striker fired guns.

While Todd's medical condition is personal and none of my business, I applaud the thought process that has led him to the Sig 229R. Hope all works out for you. Please let us know how the new Sig works out also.

Excellent post and glad you're healthy.

[Magic_Salad0892]

If there's going to be a 2014 test, it will be this gun. But for now this is just a dry fire tool.

Interesting. I hope it happens.

Hope you're feeling well, Todd.

[Magic_Salad0892]

I've been issued a M&P9 for several years now. My first issued M&P might have had some "love" given to it by one of our armors in the form of polishing a few parts. In 2007, I spent most of the year undergoing two different Chemotherapy treatments. One of the many side effects was a diminished sense of feeling in my hands. Envision the numb tingling feeling when your hand "falls asleep", but constantly.

This caused some concern about carrying my M&P's while off work. Especially as I was not competing, but carrying. Due to my diminished physical condition, I felt it even more important to carry whenever able, should I become a targeted victim of a crime. I have put enough suspects at gunpoint over the years to understand the concept of threat management. Because of this, the idea of a light, striker fired pistol when I may or may not have much feeling in my fingers was a concern.

I dusted off my semi retired S&W 3913 (Original off-duty gun) as it was the only DA/SA gun I still owned, that I trusted.

I have since become cancer free and have returned to my striker fired guns.

While Todd's medical condition is personal and none of my business, I applaud the thought process that has led him to the Sig 229R. Hope all works out for you. Please let us know how the new Sig works out also.

Glad to hear that you're better, man.

[Magic_Salad0892]

Definitely a mass migration to SIG by all the PF "cool kids" lately. But since Todd was a SIG guy way back when, I guess he's being a counter-hipster? It's all very confusing to us mere mortals :o

Looking forward to you getting well and putting ridiculous amounts of ammo downrange soon, TLG. Take care.

I almost sprung on a 229 actually. Still haven't made a decision on what will eventually replace my Glock pistols.

[Isaac]

I know most of you guys are AIWB, but just in case: Brownell's has the SSII on sale for the 229R now.

[justintime]

Yesss, sig train is in full advancement!

[Rich]

As you know I carry a P229 40cal and bought a HK P30S after reading of your experience.

I'm a fan of the P229. I wanted to buy a P229R so I could carry IWB -Light. I also wanted to go down to 9mm for less recoil.

I just couldn't get past the new -1 Dash One Slide and L-extractor. So I bought a P30S instead.

For some reason Im faster on target with the sig. Its almost like it lines up the sights by itself compared to my Stock P30S

Todd Im looking forward of hearing your experience with the long extractor P229R I hope it runs as good as the older P229.

If so I will trade in the HK P30S

[justintime]

btw the 229 is a super tame shooter with a wml - it gives me warm and fuzzies

[taadski]

I'm still trying to figure out what I am since I never abandoned the Sig......

…Original hipster?


Funny, I just had a conversation with of couple of buddies/PF members this morning about how I felt, in a way, fortunate not to have a whole lot of personal choice in my carry pistols. We're issued Sigs exclusively at my agency and have been for the last 14 years of my tenure. It's pretty funny how things come around. ;)


t

[Urban_Redneck]

Godspeed

[JAD]

I've yet to even get my first one, and it's making me crazy.

This. It's like my gun life is being written by LaHaye and Jenkins.

[Casual Friday]

Definitely a mass migration to SIG by all the PF "cool kids" lately.

Not sure if I'm one of the PF cool kids or not, but I recently picked up my 2nd SP2022 in 9mm after foolishly selling the first one last year. I was planning on putting it through the ringer tomorrow but a car wreck on Monday has had me laid up for the better part of the week. Hopefully next Saturday I'll make it to the range.

Todd, you're in my prayers.

[ToddG]

And you mine, CF! Hope the recovery from the wreck comes and goes quickly and painlessly.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I picked up a pair of MK25's, I really like the P226. Managed to shoot out a frame in 250-rounds, received the replacement on Wednesday. Time will tell, they sure are soft shooters and fast trackers compared to my P30.

[YVK]

Managed to shoot out a frame in 250-rounds

Wow. 9 mm major power factor, fluke, something else?

[ToddG]

Managed to shoot out a frame in 250-rounds,

What now?

[45dotACP]

I picked up a pair of MK25's, I really like the P226. Managed to shoot out a frame in 250-rounds, received the replacement on Wednesday. Time will tell, they sure are soft shooters and fast trackers compared to my P30.

Plot twist! Every other round was a KB!

[gtmtnbiker98]

What now?

Never quite figured it out. Lubed with slide glide medium and 250-rounds of Blazer Brass 115 gr. When I took it home after the range, I field stripped to inspect (brand new gun) and on the right side frame rail, just above the SIG Sauer roll mark was an inch long gash taken out of the frame. No burs on the slide or anything out of the ordinary. Almost like taking a knife and slicing a piece right off the frame rail. SIG received the gun on the 31st of December and called a few days later asking for FFL and that I'd receive a new gun. I got to keep the three mags that came with the first gun.

Have already put a couple hundred through the replacement, all is well with the two MK25's I have, now. For those interested, there's a thread over on a Sigforum that has pics entitled "MK25 Back to Exeter."

[Drang]

I was asked in another thread why I decided to go to a SIG P229R. While the answer is more about personal needs & preferences, and may include a little "too much information" for some, I figured the thought process might be interesting enough for others and, candidly, it's kind of fun to think it through and put it all down on paper, as it were.
Curse you, ToddG! I was about to go pull the trigger, so to speak, on a Colt Rail Gun and now I'm back to dithering about that or a Sig...

[ToddG]

... a Colt Rail Gun and now I'm back to dithering about that or a Sig...

You and I may have slightly different needs and priorities at the moment. :cool:

[PPGMD]

Todd switches from Sig to M&P, couple of years later I do the same. Then Todd switches to 1911, and I am seriously considering going all 1911 in 2015 and 2016. I guess that means in 2017 I need to come back to Sig?

Well at least it won't be an expensive switch as I have most of the guns already.

[TheTrevor]

It's like clothing fashions in the Midwest when I was a kid -- same thing you'd see in the big coastal cities, just on a 2-3 year time delay before the locals got the memo. :)

[Comedian]

All the best to you Todd. Keep plugging away maestro. The P229 in 9mm was my first ever firearm. Sig's will always have a place in my collection when funds permit.

[John Ralston]

Todd...

Why did you chose the P229 over the P226? I have a P229, and love it, but I find the hump at the top of the left hand grip panel to be less than ideal and think the P226 is better in that respect.

Just curious...

[justintime]

have you tried the hogue g10 grips? It seems to alleviate that problem ten fold.

[John Ralston]

Have not...I'll take a look into them.

[Rich]

btw the 229 is a super tame shooter with a wml - it gives me warm and fuzzies

That good to hear.

What light do you use.

[Rich]

Todd...

Why did you chose the P229 over the P226? I have a P229, and love it, but I find the hump at the top of the left hand grip panel to be less than ideal and think the P226 is better in that respect.

Just curious...


I picked the P229 because of its height !

I find it easier to carry IWB than taller pistols. Like my P30S.

[ToddG]

Why did you chose the P229 over the P226?

Can't find a decent aiwb holster for big guns... :cool:

In all seriousness, it does conceal a little easier but the main reason is simply that the slide is substantially lighter. Comparing the P229 and P226 years ago is when I first figured out how much I prefer the lighter and shorter slides. I considered going with a Mk25 and doing the whole "Salient" thing like JJ did but the time and money just didn't seem worth it and, candidly, I sort of like the idea of just using more of a "plain" gun if I start teaching again.

[NickA]

Not sure if I'm one of the PF cool kids or not, but I recently picked up my 2nd SP2022 in 9mm after foolishly selling the first one last year. I was planning on putting it through the ringer tomorrow but a car wreck on Monday has had me laid up for the better part of the week. Hopefully next Saturday I'll make it to the range.

Todd, you're in my prayers.

And it's posts like this that make it hurt even more. If I get a SIG it will almost certainly be the SP2022, since I have HK taste but a Hipoint budget.... errr, I'm very value conscious.
OTOH, once GJM gets the CZ stampede going full scale I may snag one of the many used P-series that's bound to show up in the FS forum :cool:

Hope you heal up quick.

[John Ralston]

Got it. I wish my 229 was a 9mm instead of a 40, cause I would shoot it a TON more. I may get a 9mm Conversion Barrel for it, swap the grips and run it a bunch this summer. It is a 3 number gun, so I don't want to sell it just yet. I actually prefer the older guns without the rail anyway, so it will either be the barrel swap or an older 228/226 and not a new gun.

[Casual Friday]

And it's posts like this that make it hurt even more. If I get a SIG it will almost certainly be the SP2022, since I have HK taste but a Hipoint budget.... errr, I'm very value conscious.
OTOH, once GJM gets the CZ stampede going full scale I may snag one of the many used P-series that's bound to show up in the FS forum :cool:

Hope you heal up quick.

Thanks, going back to work monday. Can't take being cooped up in the house anymore. Sciatic nerve pain is a real bugger, but small potatoes compared to Todd's situation.

Get the 2022, all the cool kids have one.:cool:

[MD7305]

Todd, I'd be interested to hear your plans in reference to sights.

When I was carrying a 229 full-time I found little in the way of sights that worked for me and finally resorted to painting the front blade hi-vis orange. That was prior to Trijicon offering the HDs or Ameriglo's Pro. I'd love to see an Ameriglo CAP or I-Dot Pro available for the Sig product line.

Keep up the good fight, friend. Prayers sent.

[ToddG]

I'm trying to get Ameriglo TCAP orange front and Pro Operator rear, but I'm not sure if they're making it for the SIG quite yet. If not, I'll go the high-viz paint on a regular Ameriglo front with the Pro Op rear for the time being.

[Rex G]

Enjoy your P229R!

I bought my .40 P229R DAK in November 2004, and it has been my duty pistol since then. The first time I fired it, on my employer's qual course, I shot a higher score than I had ever managed with a G22, in 2.5 years of trying.

I went with DAK, because it mimics a K/L-frame revolver trigger so well, and I had much exerience with S&W sixguns. TDA would have been OK, too; the P220 that was my 24/7/365 duty/carry gun from 1991 to 1993 was TDA, and I briefly owned a pair of all-stainless P229 .40 TDAs more recently, before I thinned the herd when my chief almost authorized 9mm as an alternate duty pistol cartridge. (.40 is getting to be too much for my aging joints.) I actually prefer TDA to DAK when shooting lefty.

I pray that your recovery is swift and complete!

[Rich]

Got it. I wish my 229 was a 9mm instead of a 40, cause I would shoot it a TON more. I may get a 9mm Conversion Barrel for it, swap the grips and run it a bunch this summer. It is a 3 number gun, so I don't want to sell it just yet. I actually prefer the older guns without the rail anyway, so it will either be the barrel swap or an older 228/226 and not a new gun.

I wish my P229 was a P229R!

At walmart and local GS I find 40cal in stock but not the 9mm ! And the price is pretty close to the same.

[BoppaBear]

I got rid of my P229R SCT 3 years ago, and at times wish that I had not. It was a great shooting weapon, and the SCT came with 4 17 rd mags.

This being said, I'm also in a bit of a transitional spot with my pistols. I have several that just sit. They are stationed throughout my house, but I shoot the 2 guns I will most likely have to rely upon for self-defense, 99.999% of the time...my P30 and my sk.

I'm really thinking about selling my Sigs and a Glock, probably keeping my M&P 9FS, and picking up another sk and P30, and maybe an HK45c or M&P 45, just to have a .45 option.

Todd, best of luck to you and your family.

[justintime]

I would be all over that if they offered it!

[JodyH]

I'm trying to get Ameriglo TCAP orange front and Pro Operator rear, but I'm not sure if they're making it for the SIG quite yet. If not, I'll go the high-viz paint on a regular Ameriglo front with the Pro Op rear for the time being.
My advice is check your POA/POI before you even start looking at sights.
My P229R was so far off at 25 yards (6+" high) that I ended up with traditional Ameriglo 3-dot's because that was the only combination that'd get me zero'd.
My SigPro wasn't much better (3" low at 25) but I was able to use a Ameriglo ProGlo front sight.

[John Ralston]

I wish my P229 was a P229R!

At walmart and local GS I find 40cal in stock but not the 9mm ! And the price is pretty close to the same.

I have 3K+ rounds of 9, but not a ton of 40. In fact, I sold off all the 40 reloading components that I had during the shortage. I just don't shoot 40 often...it's usually 45 or 9. I am interested in the arrival of the 227, but it needs to be rung out and proven by others before I even think of going that route.

I am going to try out the Hogue Grips as mentioned above and see if I gain interest in shooting it again. I really have no need for a light rail on my carry gun, and prefer the trimmer package offered by guns without them.

[JV_]

My older 226 was pretty low with the factory 8/8 sets. I ended up using the Henie set for the 229 to get a good zero.

The newer Sigs I've messed with seemed to be much better with POA/POI.

[GJM]

My older 226 was pretty low with the factory 8/8 sets. I ended up using the Henie set for the 229 to get a good zero.

The newer Sigs I've messed with seemed to be much better with POA/POI.

My understanding was that the HD and Heinie sights for the 229 use a taller front sight, wouldn't that aggravate the problem with the 226?

[CCT125US]

My advice is check your POA/POI before you even start looking at sights.
My P229R was so far off at 25 yards (6+" high) that I ended up with traditional Ameriglo 3-dot's because that was the only combination that'd get me zero'd.
My SigPro wasn't much better (3" low at 25) but I was able to use a Ameriglo ProGlo front sight.

When I started getting dialed in for distance at 25 and 50 yds using the Heinie Straight Eights, I learned of POI issues. Ended up with Dawson front .170 and 10-8 rear to get it sorted out.

[JV_]

My understanding was that the HD and Heinie sights for the 229 use a taller front sight, wouldn't that aggravate the problem with the 226?Perhaps I'm confusing guns, and it was my 229 that needed 226 sights, not the opposite.

My 229 shipped with an 8/8 and needed an 8/6. It was hitting 1.5" low @ 15Y with the factory 8/8.

Heinie Heights:
335P - .190" front
338P - .210" front

OEM Heights:
#6 = 5.88mm (0.230 inches)
#8 = 5.60mm (0.220 inches)

[justintime]

I need to bring my poi down about as much as Jody

[taadski]

Perhaps I'm confusing guns, and it was my 229 that needed 226 sights, not the opposite.

My 229 shipped with an 8/8 and needed an 8/6. It was hitting 1.5" low @ 15Y with the factory 8/8.

Heinie Heights:
335P - .190" front
338P - .210" front

OEM Heights:
#6 = 5.88mm (0.230 inches)
#8 = 5.60mm (0.220 inches)

JV,

The OEM heights you have listed are measurements that include the height of the dovetail if I'm not mistaken. The Heinie measurements you have listed are for the blade only without the dovetail (their rear sight is quite a bit taller than stock Sig ones). The blade only dimensions for a #8 is .160 and the #6 is .170.

I'm a little confused with the discussion at the moment because sight height from the factory is typically based on not model, but caliber. That said, several sight vendors sell different versions by pistol model (229 vs 226, etc…). Traditionally, 8/8 sight combinations come on 9mm and .357 Sig models and the 8/6 combo comes on the .40s and .45s. I'm also a little confused b/c a move to a #6 front from a #8 front would lower the POI further, not bring it up. In Sig's numbered vernacular, number up results in POI moving up.

FWIW, the last several newer milled slide Sigs I've monkeyed with have shot with a "behind the dot" type point of impact at 25 yards and required adjustment (shorter front sight) to get them to shoot to the tip of the front sight blade. It's interesting that it sounds like some folks are experiencing just the opposite.


t

[JV_]

The OEM heights you have listed are measurements that include the height of the dovetail if I'm not mistaken.Could be. I use them to reference each other (within the same brand), not for cross brand compatibility.


I'm also a little confused b/c a move to a #6 front from a #8 front would lower the POI further, not bring it up.Yea, I'm confused too. I think this head cold has turned my brain in to mush.

[Suvorov]

My understanding.

A lower front sight will require you to raise the muzzle of the gun to bring it into the same plane as the rear sight thus raising the point of impact.

And in p229 news - I'm loving my "new" p229 as well.

[ToddG]

SIG sights raise point of aim as number goes up. Higher number front is actually shorter sight.

[taadski]

SIG sights raise point of aim as number goes up. Higher number front is actually shorter sight.


Exactly.


Todd, do you have any insight or rational re sight vendors associating different height sights with model rather than caliber? I've been baffled by that for some time, as the only model it would hold true for across the board would be the 220 (and the 245 I suppose) being .45 caliber only.


t

[JV_]

SIG sights raise point of aim as number goes up. Higher number front is actually shorter sight.I'm not disagreeing, I don't know how my memory became this askew.


the board would be the 220 (and the 245 I suppose) being .45 caliber only. I thought there were/are 9mm P220s out there?

[taadski]

snip...I thought there were/are 9mm P220s out there?

Errrr….Good point. That's true. (I don't have one of them though. :p)


t

[JodyH]

I need to bring my poi down about as much as Jody
I'll quote myself from a previous thread:

Problem is I need a .040" taller front to drop POI 6" at 25 yards.
#8 front is .220, #8 rear is .250
#6 front is only .230, even if I could find the next step lower rear (in a night sight) I'd still be 3" high at 25 yards. there's really no combination of HD/ProGlo front with any rear that gives me what I need.

I ended up going with a .280 front (+.060") and a .270 rear (+.020) to give me the equivalent of +.040" front.
Rick at Ameriglo confirmed my math and said that was pretty much my best option in a night sight front and rear.

[Clyde from Carolina]

Your reasoning for returning to the Sig makes a lot of sense, Todd.

I had much different reasons for making the switch (back) to Sig recently but it helped that:

a. I already two older ones that worked and
b. like you, I was encouraged by the experienced users here who had positive experience with recent examples.

My 228s and 226 and Mk25 are all treating me right and they work. Like Sean says-- gun work, gun good.

[Beat Trash]

I'm not trying to side track this topic, but I have a quick question.

Can the short reset trigger be installed in an older 228?

[taadski]

I'm not trying to side track this topic, but I have a quick question.

Can the short reset trigger be installed in an older 228?


It can. Confirming you're familiar with the distinction between a "short trigger" and the SRT kit though?


t

[Jaywalker]

It can. Confirming you're familiar with the distinction between a "short trigger" and the SRT kit though?


t
Can the short trigger be installed in an older P228?

[psalms144.1]

Short trigger - yes. Not sure about the SRT - I'll yeild to others more versed in the technical aspects of Sig

[taadski]

Short trigger - yes. Not sure about the SRT - I'll yeild to others more versed in the technical aspects of Sig


Both are drop in.

[SecondsCount]

Todd- Glad to hear that you are back on the road to recovery.

My second choice to the P30 would be a Sig. The 2022 I have in 9mm treats me well and a buddy that I recommended one to a couple years ago has been very happy with his.

I got an email from CDNN this morning stating that they have very good condition DAO non-R P229s in 357Sig for $449. My mind starting wandering...

I do not need another Sig

That is a good deal

I do not need another Sig

But 357Sig has a major cool factor

I do not need another Sig

But you already reload and have 357Sig brass

I do not need another Sig

And you could get a .40 barrel for it and you already have the stuff to reload that cheap 155 load you came up with for the M&P

I do not need another Sig

[Dagga Boy]

I used to be a HUGE Sig guy. I won not only a gunfight (actually a shooting, because the guy with the Beretta lost early), but my most noteworthy competitive accomplishment with Sigs. I didn't leave SIG, SIG left me. I still have a bunch of my old German guns, and could never see parting with them, but I just can't wrap my head around "rolling the dice" on guns anymore when I have a bunch of HK's that work like I expect them to everytime, and they have "fixed" the rarely needed customer service issues.

Glad to see others are having some luck with them, but I think I am permanently scarred over a lot of what I have seen.

[Nephrology]

My P229R was so far off at 25 yards (6+" high) that I ended up with traditional Ameriglo 3-dot's because that was the only combination that'd get me zero'd.


How did you figure this out...? trial and error?

[JodyH]

How did you figure this out...? trial and error?
Ameriglo has the biggest assortment of front and rear sight heights for Sigs. I did the math to find what I needed and chose my sight combo from there.

[Beat Trash]

Both are drop in.

I was referring to the SRT, sorry for the confusion and thanks for the answer.

[John Hearne]

Can the short trigger be installed in an older P228?

Yes but cautiously. I installed current SRT parts in an old P226. If you pressed the trigger slowly, you could decock the pistol with the trigger. If you pressed straight through quickly, it worked fine. I would install but function test carefully.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/ajp3jeh/Gun%20Stuff/th_sig_trigger.jpg (http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/ajp3jeh/Gun%20Stuff/sig_trigger.mp4)

[taadski]

John,

If you don't mind my asking, what sort of frequency have you witnessed that phenomenon? Reason I'm asking is I've installed SRT sears and safety levers in a large number of older P series pistols (226, 228, 229, 239) and haven't come across it. You envision it's just a function of tolerance stacking in this one pistol or have you seen it more than that?


t

[Rich]

Perhaps I'm confusing guns, and it was my 229 that needed 226 sights, not the opposite.

My 229 shipped with an 8/8 and needed an 8/6. It was hitting 1.5" low @ 15Y with the factory 8/8.

Heinie Heights:
335P - .190" front
338P - .210" front

OEM Heights:
#6 = 5.88mm (0.230 inches)
#8 = 5.60mm (0.220 inches)

My 98 P229 40/357 has #8 sights. And is dead on 25-50Y using 180gr . The 135 gr JHP seem close as well.

I never got around in buying a 357sig barrel so I don't know the PO/POI

[JV_]

Just to be clear, the only thing correct in my post are the listed sight heights. My recollection of POA/POI if fuzzy enough that it's bad data.

[John Hearne]

If you don't mind my asking, what sort of frequency have you witnessed that phenomenon? Reason I'm asking is I've installed SRT sears and safety levers in a large number of older P series pistols (226, 228, 229, 239) and haven't come across it. You envision it's just a function of tolerance stacking in this one pistol or have you seen it more than that?

I've only seen it in that one pistol but that's the only really old Sig I've installing the SRT parts into. I've seen reports of it at Sigforum. In all fairness, IIRC, that was a 1992 vintage P226. It was the 18th P226 bought by my agency. I had borrowed it from the armorery to have a 9mm as I was taking class that provided free ammo as long as you shot 9mm.

[JAD]

Could the DAO .357 SIG 229s be converted to TDA with an srt?

I winced when I typed that.

[NEPAKevin]

Could the DAO .357 SIG 229s be converted to TDA with an srt?


There is a thread on this in the "Ask the Armorer" section:
Sig P229 DAO to SRT conversion (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?8806-Sig-P229-DAO-to-SRT-conversion&highlight=conversion)

[JAD]

There is a thread on this in the "Ask the Armorer" section:
Sig P229 DAO to SRT conversion (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?8806-Sig-P229-DAO-to-SRT-conversion&highlight=conversion)

Ouch, bad searching. Thanks.

[Suvorov]

Could the DAO .357 SIG 229s be converted to TDA with an srt?

I winced when I typed that.

Yes. Easy to do as long as you don't have a rare magazine safety. Top Gun Supply lists the parts you will need to do the conversion. You'll need a new hammer, decock lever, decocker bearing, and strut pin to do the DAO-TDA conversion. After that the SRT kit will drop in. Both TopGun and Brownells have those parts in stock but Brownells didn't have the SRT last time I checked. If you are not really comfortable detail stripping your frame, take a look at the CWWeapons Armors Course DVD - they helped me out immensely.

[taadski]

I've only seen it in that one pistol but that's the only really old Sig I've installing the SRT parts into. I've seen reports of it at Sigforum. In all fairness, IIRC, that was a 1992 vintage P226. It was the 18th P226 bought by my agency. I had borrowed it from the armorery to have a 9mm as I was taking class that provided free ammo as long as you shot 9mm.

Copy. Thanks for pointing it out.

t

[ToddG]

I finally get to pick it up today! Then it's going straight out to the shop for work and it will be another week before I actually handle it but I'm crazy excited. I did a little dry fire with my original NSW project P226 the other night just for the fun of it.

[BaiHu]

Congrats! What is your time frame for putting some lead through it? Glad you're on the mends.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[JV_]

I won't be doing any live fire for at least another couple of months

[gtmtnbiker98]

I noticed that too, glad to see the push is still going strong.

[john556]

That's great. I'm really looking forward to the insightful posts to come on TDA pistols now that you'll be shooting one again.

[BaiHu]

Thanks JV. Too lazy to search back on my phone :-P

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[JV_]

N/P..

[Eternal24k]

Todd, any experience with the E2 grips? They are a but too radical for some, but I love them, my P228R and P226s all sport them, really makes the grip feel small and you might like the angle since you have recently spent a lot of time with the 1911

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[John Ralston]

Todd, any experience with the E2 grips? They are a but too radical for some, but I love them, my P228R and P226s all sport them, really makes the grip feel small and you might like the angle since you have recently spent a lot of time with the 1911

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

For me, I love the grip (didn't use it a ton, and not when wet or anything), but I hated the trigger pull with the new components. Mine is Pre 94, so has the long strut and the metal, rather than plastic retainer, so in newer pistols the trigger pull might not be affected.

[Eternal24k]

Mine are on W German 226s, I did notice a slight change in trigger pull but nothring dramatic, I chocked it up to the new spring, one Sig has a nicely worn in trigger that could afford to give some

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[JohnK]

I am excited to see what this is going to lead to in the future. Thoughts and prayers are with you and your family, Todd.

[ToddG]

Quick and dirty before sending it off:

Came with SIG 2022 manual, not P229 manual. :cool:

DA nice, relatively smooth, 9 pounds 6 ounces.

SA not bad, 4 pounds 6 ounces. My SACS 1911 was heavier.

[klewis]

Quick and dirty before sending it off:

Came with SIG 2022 manual, not P229 manual. :cool:
...


This does not inspire confidence in the QC going on in Exeter, to me at least. Glad it feels good!

[JSGlock34]

I did a little dry fire with my original NSW project P226 the other night just for the fun of it.

Todd - I noticed your one of a kind Beretta Type M 'Elite II' in the sales forum, and then saw this reference to the project gun. I'm now curious what other interesting firearms reside in your safe...

[Casual Friday]

Came with SIG 2022 manual, not P229 manual. :cool:

It's an omen, you will buy a SP2022, your fate has been determined....

[GJM]

Todd, if I have followed this correctly, you doing something different with the trigger at Gray guns.

Are you in a position to comment on it -- as I recall, Bruce wasn't that high on the SRT, and wondered if he is doing something different, and pulling the SRT components?

[ToddG]

Gun is not going to Gray and I wasn't able to acquire one of his upcoming triggers in time, so the pistol will wear a normal "short" trigger plus SRT. I can do my own overall stop if it becomes an issue.

[LSP552]

At the end of the day, it's mostly all about the trigger. That's what brought be back to SIG a few years ago. In the decades long battle between Glock and SIG for my soul, SIG won. I simply shoot them better that anything else.

I must be the only one on the planet, but the 228/229 is my least favorite SIG. I hate the feel of the pronounced grip hump, and I'm still in the air about the E2 grips. My personal preference is 226 and 239 for smaller. As an old retired guy, I'm completely comfortable packing the 239 everywhere I go. It's flat, easy to carry and shoots like it's bigger brother.

Ken

[Symmetry]

I must be the only one on the planet, but the 228/229 is my least favorite SIG. I hate the feel of the pronounced grip hump, and I'm still in the air about the E2 grips. My personal preference is 226 and 239 for smaller. As an old retired guy, I'm completely comfortable packing the 239 everywhere I go. It's flat, easy to carry and shoots like it's bigger brother.

Ken

Yeah, you are definately in the minority on the P228/P229 grip......at least on the older grips. Some time in the mid-2000s Sig beefed up the plastic on the area around the slide release lever. I hated the change, and stick to the old style grips. The P239 is a great CCW for sure

[Drang]

It's an omen, you will buy a SP2022, your fate has been determined....

No, no, no.
"Just like the gypsy woman said..."

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

[Gary1911A1]

Todd- Glad to hear that you are back on the road to recovery.

My second choice to the P30 would be a Sig. The 2022 I have in 9mm treats me well and a buddy that I recommended one to a couple years ago has been very happy with his.

I got an email from CDNN this morning stating that they have very good condition DAO non-R P229s in 357Sig for $449. My mind starting wandering...

I do not need another Sig

That is a good deal

I do not need another Sig

But 357Sig has a major cool factor

I do not need another Sig

But you already reload and have 357Sig brass

I do not need another Sig

And you could get a .40 barrel for it and you already have the stuff to reload that cheap 155 load you came up with for the M&P

I do not need another Sig

I too tend to think like this so I try to give it a couple of days to make sure If want or need is more important.

[LSP972]

I too tend to think like this so I try to give it a couple of days to make sure If want or need is more important.

Excellent advice. Too bad I didn't follow it a week or so back...:mad:

.

[Jaywalker]

Is the Sig P229R the next long-term test piece? I see a mention in the blog of multiple planned rounds, but I missed the formal announcement, if any.

[Jaywalker]

Okay, I reread the first line: "My 2014 gun, the SIG P229R-9." Actually, that's pretty definitive. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[GJM]

Will a P226 .40 mag function reliably in a .40 P229?

[David S.]

It seems strange to me that SIG shooters can't get this question straight. Unlike Glock, where it is well established that mags are interchangeable, the question is asked weekly on the various forums, and the replies are never fully certain. If they are interchangeable, that seems like something that SIG would want to make clear to their customers. But then I don't know what, if anything, Glock has done that SIG has not. Maybe their mag design just makes it obvious.

I'm not targeting you in particular GJM, just a bit of rambling.

Anyway, (to continue the cycle ;) ) it's my understanding from reading elsewhere that they should run reliably. There may be some looseness running E2 mags.

[GJM]

Actually, I wonder if Sig knows for sure, as to reliability, since the 226 mag physically fits in the slightly larger 229 magwell, and a Sig instructor mentioned using P226 9mm mags in a 224, which shares the 229 .40 sized magwell, in a MSW blog post.

In any event, I run a 10 or .40 in the summer, have a P226 .40, but find the P229 .40 to be an attractive pistol, since I don't associate Beretta with .40, and have no CZ .40 experience.

[MD7305]

In my personal experience the 226 mags worked well in my 229 (.40). They wiggle a tiny bit but function was fine. I was gifted a box of used, factory 12rd 226 .40 mags. Used them on the range quite a bit to save my 229 mags from abuse. Never had a malfunction. My advice would be if you plan to carry with them I would get one of those x-grip style adapters as there is a small gap between the frame and baseplate when the mag is inserted.

[GJM]

My use would preclude that, as I frequently carry the 226 .40 and would need the mags, ideally, to work for both.

[NEPAKevin]

I too have never had a problem using 226 mags in the 229, although my experience has mostly been with 9mm and 357SIG.

[ToddG]

The issue is that SIG now has two different P229-9/P228A1 frame sizes.

One is the old 13rd mag frame that uses a tube the same width as the 9mm P226. The other, dubbed P229-1, uses mags based on the SIGPRO which hold 15rd for the same length but in a slightly wider body. While you can technically use the older mags in the -1 guns most folks recommend against it, including the folks I trust at SIG.

To make matters more interesting, there are also at least three different P228A1/P229 versions of the stainless slide. The original P229 9mm slide used the 40/357 P229 shape which had very narrow grasping grooves but was wide and heavy due to the guns' original cartridge intention. Then with the E2 generation SIG changed the P228A1/P229 slide to something much closer to the original P228 contour. Now with the new "long" extractor the slide dimensions and shape have changed yet again.

And because SIG builds using a "warehouse of parts" system, there are both original & -1 frames and E2 and long extractor slides in house. So any given run of guns, regardless of designation, could end up with either slide or either frame. You could get a P228A1 with new frame old slide or vice versa or any other combo.

The -1 frame and long extractor slide are the only ones that will be manufactured regularly moving forward but until the supply of the old parts is gone they will still be used to produce guns.

That's why, instead of trying to get something figured out through SIG, I just walked into the local gun shop and made sure I was getting the latest version in my P229R-9.

[LSP972]

The issue is that SIG now has two different P229-9/P228A1 frame sizes.

One is the old 13rd mag frame that uses a tube the same width as the 9mm P226. The other, dubbed P229-1, uses mags based on the SIGPRO which hold 15rd for the same length but in a slightly wider body. While you can technically use the older mags in the -1 guns most folks recommend against it, including the folks I trust at SIG.

.

Ah, so. Now I know why my pal is having reliability issues with his 1990-vintage P226 magazines in his current-vintage P229. I just chalked it up to typical current Sig un-QC.

Interesting...

.

[David S.]

Which makes me wonder how many apparent reliability issues could be traced to improper mags. Oh boy.

Ah, so. Now I know why my pal is having reliability issues with his 1990-vintage P226 magazines in his current-vintage P229. I just chalked it up to typical current Sig un-QC.

Interesting...

.

[John Ralston]

Speaking of mags...how are the Mec-Gars? They run half the price of factory mags, and I need to stock up...which makes them quite attractive.

[David S.]

Mec-Gars are the way to go for P2XX mags.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Speaking of mags...how are the Mec-Gars? They run half the price of factory mags, and I need to stock up...which makes them quite attractive.
Mec-Gar, by far.

[KevinB]

MEC-GAR makes many folks mags -- so buy the same mag at 1/2 price...

[Kyle Reese]

Speaking of mags...how are the Mec-Gars? They run half the price of factory mags, and I need to stock up...which makes them quite attractive.

MEC-GAR mags are good to go.

[John Ralston]

I knew that they had made Sig mags at one time, just wasn't sure of current quality. Thanks for the replies...I will get some ordered.

[JodyH]

The majority of current production Sig P229-1 and SP2022 mags I've purchased lately are Checkmate manufactured.
I do have a few Mec-Gar mags and they are a little better finished and load to 15 (or 17 in my +2 mags) easier.
The Checkmate's have a really heavy preservative grease on them (inside and out) that you must clean off before use or the followers can stick once the grease attracts and holds sand and grit inside the mag tube.
The Mec-Gar mags I've bought don't have this sticky preservative on them.
After using both I don't have a problem buying more Checkmates but would prefer Mec-Gar if I have the choice.

[JodyH]

Came with SIG 2022 manual, not P229 manual. :cool:
My SP2022 didn't come with a manual at all... now I know what happened to it.
It didn't happen to have a coupon for my second mag in the manual did it?

[LSP972]

The majority of current production Sig P229-1 and SP2022 mags I've purchased lately are Checkmate manufactured.


We had what appeared to be a brand-new P226 Elite come through the lab today. The magazine with it was also new, with zippo (i.e., none) markings and a solid back. I assume it was a Checkmate. Looked decent, but I see they have the same doper in charge of magazine configuration still handling things in Exeter. I mean, seriously… what moron specifies a phosphated tube and blued floorplate????

The sheriff's office I worked at right after retiring issued P226Rs, and all their mags were like this (except they were Italian specials). I struggled, for a long time, trying to see the logic behind it. Alas, my imagination failed me.

I'll say one thing, though. This pistol today had a short SRT trigger and the E2 stocks… and, by God, it felt GREAT in my hand. And when they say short reset, they ain't kidding.

I again had the urge to score a P228 or M11A1, etc.

Thankfully, again it passed…

.

[gtmtnbiker98]

We had what appeared to be a brand-new P226 Elite come through the lab today. The magazine with it was also new, with zippo (i.e., none) markings and a solid back. I assume it was a Checkmate. Looked decent, but I see they have the same doper in charge of magazine configuration still handling things in Exeter. I mean, seriously… what moron specifies a phosphated tube and blued floorplate????

The sheriff's office I worked at right after retiring issued P226Rs, and all their mags were like this (except they were Italian specials). I struggled, for a long time, trying to see the logic behind it. Alas, my imagination failed me.

I'll say one thing, though. This pistol today had a short SRT trigger and the E2 stocks… and, by God, it felt GREAT in my hand. And when they say short reset, they ain't kidding.

I again had the urge to score a P228 or M11A1, etc.

Thankfully, again it passed…

.What do you run, now?

[JBP55]

What do you run, now?

His favorite brand is the same as yours. Hotel Kilo.

[LSP972]

What do you run, now?

HK45C for the past four years, USPc .45 three years before that; both LEMs. I have been searching for a lighter alternative for some time now, but every candidate has displeased me for one reason or another. My lovely bride told me a few weeks ago to STFU, man up, and deal with the weight (I can see LSP552 smiling- he knows her). So I am…


But I must say, I am tremendously impressed with HK in general. I have had opportunity, via my various work assignments since the late 80s, to be able to handle and shoot (and, in some cases, wrench on) just about everything out there. Along with the superior fit/finish (debatable, but _I_ think it is a better-built pistol) of the guns themselves, I feel that the LEM is, hands down, the best "combat" trigger extant. Again, a debatable point. But that's my opinion; to the point that we have nine of them, all LEMs. My wife started out with a 9mm P2000 (after being a confirmed Glock-o-phile for many years), advanced to that gun in .40 (thank you, Tom Givens, for making me shell out for THAT!), and now "runs" a pair of .40 P30s.

Sorry for the novella. But its… complicated…;)

.

[Rich]

The issue is that SIG now has two different P229-9/P228A1 frame sizes.

One is the old 13rd mag frame that uses a tube the same width as the 9mm P226. The other, dubbed P229-1, uses mags based on the SIGPRO which hold 15rd for the same length but in a slightly wider body. While you can technically use the older mags in the -1 guns most folks recommend against it, including the folks I trust at SIG.

To make matters more interesting, there are also at least three different P228A1/P229 versions of the stainless slide. The original P229 9mm slide used the 40/357 P229 shape which had very narrow grasping grooves but was wide and heavy due to the guns' original cartridge intention. Then with the E2 generation SIG changed the P228A1/P229 slide to something much closer to the original P228 contour. Now with the new "long" extractor the slide dimensions and shape have changed yet again.

And because SIG builds using a "warehouse of parts" system, there are both original & -1 frames and E2 and long extractor slides in house. So any given run of guns, regardless of designation, could end up with either slide or either frame. You could get a P228A1 with new frame old slide or vice versa or any other combo.

The -1 frame and long extractor slide are the only ones that will be manufactured regularly moving forward but until the supply of the old parts is gone they will still be used to produce guns.

That's why, instead of trying to get something figured out through SIG, I just walked into the local gun shop and made sure I was getting the latest version in my P229R-9.

I find it strange?

When Sig came out with the new P227 45ACP they used the regular slide and extractor .

Have you seen any P226 or P220 with the -1 Slide and Long extractor.

BTW
Questions Do you know any US military that is issued the newer M11A1

[Rich]

The majority of current production Sig P229-1 and SP2022 mags I've purchased lately are Checkmate manufactured.
I do have a few Mec-Gar mags and they are a little better finished and load to 15 (or 17 in my +2 mags) easier.
The Checkmate's have a really heavy preservative grease on them (inside and out) that you must clean off before use or the followers can stick once the grease attracts and holds sand and grit inside the mag tube.
The Mec-Gar mags I've bought don't have this sticky preservative on them.
After using both I don't have a problem buying more Checkmates but would prefer Mec-Gar if I have the choice.

I bought my first P229 40cal mag from mec-gar last year.

Hard to load at first. Excellent springs / follower

I wish the witness holes were on the other side of magazine .

Other than that I like them just as well as my sauer mags.


Never had a checkmate magazine.

[HCM]

I find it strange?

When Sig came out with the new P227 45ACP they used the regular slide and extractor .

Have you seen any P226 or P220 with the -1 Slide and Long extractor.

BTW
Questions Do you know any US military that is issued the newer M11A1

P226 w. long extractor yes - P220 no.

The M11a1 is not an official military designation, nor are they in use by the US military. Its a marketing ploy by SIG to sell 229-1's to people who want P228s/M11s and don't know any better.

[LSP552]

Looked decent, but I see they have the same doper in charge of magazine configuration still handling things in Exeter. I mean, seriously… what moron specifies a phosphated tube and blued floorplate????

The sheriff's office I worked at right after retiring issued P226Rs, and all their mags were like this (except they were Italian specials). I struggled, for a long time, trying to see the logic behind it. Alas, my imagination failed me.

I'll say one thing, though. This pistol today had a short SRT trigger and the E2 stocks… and, by God, it felt GREAT in my hand. And when they say short reset, they ain't kidding.

I again had the urge to score a P228 or M11A1, etc.

Thankfully, again it passed…

.

They are like Glock factory dovetail protectors; you throw them away…then replace with the rubber base plates.

You really need to come back to the SIG fold. David just bought a 226R and 239. There are few things more shootable than a SIG with SRT.

Ken

[1slow]

HK45C for the past four years, USPc .45 three years before that; both LEMs. I have been searching for a lighter alternative for some time now, but every candidate has displeased me for one reason or another. My lovely bride told me a few weeks ago to STFU, man up, and deal with the weight (I can see LSP552 smiling- he knows her). So I am…]


But I must say, I am tremendously impressed with HK in general. I have had opportunity, via my various work assignments since the late 80s, to be able to handle and shoot (and, in some cases, wrench on) just about everything out there. Along with the superior fit/finish (debatable, but _I_ think it is a better-built pistol) of the guns themselves, I feel that the LEM is, hands down, the best "combat" trigger extant. Again, a debatable point. But that's my opinion; to the point that we have nine of them, all LEMs. My wife started out with a 9mm P2000 (after being a confirmed Glock-o-phile for many years), advanced to that gun in .40 (thank you, Tom Givens, for making me shell out for THAT!), and now "runs" a pair of .40 P30s.

Sorry for the novella. But its… complicated…;)

.
As long as you are not carrying more than 2 of them and 3 spare mags the weight is not bad.

[Rack]

They are like Glock factory dovetail protectors; you throw them away…then replace with the rubber base plates.

You really need to come back to the SIG fold. David just bought a 226R and 239. There are few things more shootable than a SIG with SRT.

Ken


Does anyone know what it is about the SRT trigger that Bruce Gray does not like? I've read references to this, but don't know what kind of problem there is with the SRT.

[LSP972]

You really need to come back to the SIG fold.

Nah. I'm too heavily invested, both physically (iron + accessories) and mentally (LEM trigger, paddle mag release) in HK to go back to flipping the gun in my hand to kick out a magazine, and having to remember to decock.

Interesting about David, though. I thought he was pretty well settled on his G19 for EDC, with the Ed Brown for BBQs and such...:D

.

[LSP972]

As long as you are not carrying more than 2 of them and 3 spare mags the weight is not bad.

Yup... until you get old.

.

[ToddG]

Let's keep the topic on topic, gents. Get a room. :cool:

[Rich]

CT grips on P229R

What model grip Todd ?

[ToddG]

I'm getting a set of the militaries to play with and we'll go from there. Ideally I'd like to see them put a green module in the military version but for the moment everything I am doing is indoors so I can't complain about red.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Todd,

When you were making your decision for a carry piece did you consider the SP2022? I know that it lacks the Short and SRT trigger that are major selling points of the P229, but it does have lighter overall weight and a smaller price tag. Just curious... I am in the market for a new set of carry guns and this thread as well as some other recent ones has turned my decision making process into a rather arduous task.

[ToddG]

The most honest answer I can give you is that I'm a gun snob and the SIGPRO just doesn't "do" it for me. I shot them a bit while I worked at SIG and honestly can't take anything away from them. From a cost-value standpoint they've got it all over the 2-3x as expensive Classic line (or whatever SIG calls the P22x guns this year). They're made to the same requirements in terms of reliability, durability, accuracy, etc.

But the lack of SRT would have been enough to put me off regardless. It's also a lot harder to get support gear for the SIGPRO line in terms of holsters, etc (though at least the sights are compatible and there are Lasergrips available, too).

The SIGPRO is probably the smart man's SIG right now. I'm just not smart. :cool:

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Much appreciated Todd.

I am not quite sure how smart I am to be honest though.
I currently only own H&K, am trying to get on a department that issues Glock, and am thinking about buying Sigs. Hmmmm.... :rolleyes:

[SteveK]

Todd, did you give any consideration to the Elite series with the beavertail? The reason I'm asking is that I have previously carried the 229 and I always liked it. However, the tang ate away at my thumb like crazy, I just always put up with it. The new Elites and Scorpions kind of strike my fancy with the extended beavertail. Thoughts?

[ToddG]

Ah, the SIG beavertail. One of the many things on the long list that got me hated by SIG HQ.

The beavertail on the SIG pistols was designed by a marketing guy. They didn't ask for input from any of the shooters in the company. It was part of a project by a guy who hates IDPA to make what he thought was a good IDPA gun. The problem is that the design of the beavertail actually lowers your hand on the gun, extends the reach you need to get at the controls, and makes it harder to ride the hammer with your thumb when you holster. Other than that, though, it's awesome. :cool:

[SteveK]

Yeah, it looks like it would actually lower your grip. The stock grip tang eats the hell out of my thumb. I just always wore an extra pair of big-boy pants and sucked it up. Maybe the SAS dehorning would be a little smoother. I've just never had my paws on one.

[John Ralston]

The stock grip tang eats the hell out of my thumb. I just always wore an extra pair of big-boy pants and sucked it up. Maybe the SAS dehorning would be a little smoother. I've just never had my paws on one.


Same here. I did see a picture of a Sig that someone had defanged a bit. They just left it in the white and it didn't look bad. I have contemplated doing it to mine, but I would want to have the frame refinished, which adds another $100 to the cost, so I am still on the fence.

[JV_]

I did see a picture of a Sig that someone had defanged a bit. They just left it in the white and it didn't look bad.
That was GJM's Sig.

[John Ralston]

Thanks!

[John Hearne]

Sif has two versions of their beavertail floating around. The more recent rendition is a lot less offensive. It is not as long and doesn't force the hand down as much.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

[Rich]

I'm getting a set of the militaries to play with and we'll go from there. Ideally I'd like to see them put a green module in the military version but for the moment everything I am doing is indoors so I can't complain about red.

Ive been thinking about laser grips for my P229 for a long time.

I wonder if the military lanyard will get in the way of my grip? It seems to stick out according to pics.

BTW I tried them on a M642 and my fat grip can blocked the laser

[ToddG]

I'm assuming the lanyard is removable one way or another. Worst case scenario, dremel. :cool:

[Rich]

After you played with them for awhile let us know your findings

[ToddG]

After you played with them for awhile let us know your findings

I'll try but you know I'm really shy about my opinions when it comes to guns and shooting and stuff.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I'll try but you know I'm really shy about my opinions when it comes to guns and shooting and stuff.
Say it ain't so? I would never have imagined.

[Jaywalker]

How do you go about ordering holsters for a P229 which may have two frames and three slide?

[LtDave]

How do you go about ordering holsters for a P229 which may have two frames and three slide?

You think that's hard, try getting the right holster for an SP2022.

[ToddG]

How do you go about ordering holsters for a P229 which may have two frames and three slide?

Step 1: contact Tony Mayer at JM Custom Kydex.
Step 2: receive holster.

There are probably other ways. But that one worked really easily for me. :cool:

[ffhounddog]

I think it is going to feel natural and nostalgic to have a P229 again. Before I ever met you I knew you as the Sig guy.

[Trukinjp13]

Looking forward to your review. Always great reads! Honest, expert opinions are hard to come by sometimes. Hope you heal up well!

[tomr]

The issue is that SIG now has two different P229-9/P228A1 frame sizes.

One is the old 13rd mag frame that uses a tube the same width as the 9mm P226. The other, dubbed P229-1, uses mags based on the SIGPRO which hold 15rd for the same length but in a slightly wider body. While you can technically use the older mags in the -1 guns most folks recommend against it, including the folks I trust at SIG.

To make matters more interesting, there are also at least three different P228A1/P229 versions of the stainless slide. The original P229 9mm slide used the 40/357 P229 shape which had very narrow grasping grooves but was wide and heavy due to the guns' original cartridge intention. Then with the E2 generation SIG changed the P228A1/P229 slide to something much closer to the original P228 contour. Now with the new "long" extractor the slide dimensions and shape have changed yet again.

And because SIG builds using a "warehouse of parts" system, there are both original & -1 frames and E2 and long extractor slides in house. So any given run of guns, regardless of designation, could end up with either slide or either frame. You could get a P228A1 with new frame old slide or vice versa or any other combo.

The -1 frame and long extractor slide are the only ones that will be manufactured regularly moving forward but until the supply of the old parts is gone they will still be used to produce guns.

That's why, instead of trying to get something figured out through SIG, I just walked into the local gun shop and made sure I was getting the latest version in my P229R-9.

Todd,
Are you saying the P229R-9 handles the issue - has the latest frame. slide, long extractor?
Or are you saying you checked out the shop's labeled P229R-9 and made sure it had the -1 frame, and long extractor slide combo you wanted to find?
And, (sorry to complicate), here in California all Sig 226s and 229s are coming with a loaded chamber indicator on the slide top. Might you know if this was a running change that appears everywhere on all new Sigs? And if not how does that impact the question of -1 frame and long extractor slide?

[ToddG]

Mine doesn't have an LCI that I could see. I miss having it as part of the extractor, personally. I think they serve a purpose.

I cannot speak to anything California-specific.

You cannot simply walk into a store, pick up any P229R-9 (regardless of its product code on the box), and know which slide or frame it will have. You need to see if the magazine holds 13 or 15 (old style vs -1) and you need to look at the extractor. It's crazy but until they finally run out of legacy frames and slide it's the way things will be.

[tomr]

Thanks Todd,

The plot sickens.... Cali, being one of those 10 round mag states.

[GJM]

Two 229 thoughts, and I didn't want to start a new thread for just this.

1) I got around to shooting a P229 that the Sig Custom shop did an "action enhancement job" on, getting a .40 229 ready for summer. Light hits. This is the third pistol they screwed up the trigger job on, creating light hits. I would be quite cautious to thoroughly test any pistol for reliable ignition after on elf their trigger jobs.

2) Is it just my pistols, or is the DA trigger quite a bit longer on a 229 than a 226? I am used to the 226 trigger, and the DA 229 trigger seems to take for ever to break.

[justintime]

I honestly don't feel a need to improve on my 229 srt trigger. It's pretty killer - but I wouldn't mind a lighter da pull if it wouldn't cause light strikes

[ToddG]

Bill did all of his testing of the reliability using a 17# Wolff spring I had supplied. Upon return, I replaced it with the (heavier) stock SIG spring.

Keeping in mind that the trigger, sear, and disconnector were all changed, the gun started life stock with a 9#6oz DA and a SA of 4#6oz. Now, post Riehlization and refinishing all the internals in his super slick finish, the DA is 9.25# and the SA is a hair under 3.5# ... I'm still awed at how heavy the DA measures because it feels like a 6-7# trigger.

To say that the pistol is awesome really fails to do it justice. The smoothness is indescribable.

On a whim while I waited for the gun to return I bought a tungsten guide rod, so it's living in there now, too. It'll be a while before I get to see if it actually has any impact on performance positive or negative, but something tells me a buddy or two will be putting rounds downrange with this thing before I get to. I have so many great and generous friends. :cool:

My fully Riehlized SIG:

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/bigright.jpg

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/left.jpg

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/229-1.jpg

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/brand.jpg

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/maghole.jpg

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/JMCK.jpg
Holster & mag pouch courtesy of JM Custom Kydex (http://jmcustomkydex.com/)

[Papalapa]

As you've said before Todd, after your latest post I really wanted to hit a like button. Bill did a great job. Will it still be a couple months before you get to actually shoot it? Really excited to hear your reports on this Sig.

[john556]

Which options did you choose for the JM?

[ToddG]

Will it still be a couple months before you get to actually shoot it? Really excited to hear your reports on this Sig.

April, if I'm responsible. I'll be honest, there is a part of me that is thinking perhaps I'll have a buddy bring me to the range so I can at least check out my grip live fire for a few rounds to make sure I'm not sending myself down a rabbit hole (see my training journal (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2150-ToddG-s-Journal-Breaking-the-Cardboard-Ceiling&p=202306#post202306) for explanation). He'll just stand there with a sword, and if I do anything stupid with the gun in my hand...


Which options did you choose for the JM?

You know, I've been using Tony's holsters for so long at this point I just order "aiwb" and he puts them together the way I need. So he might come in and correct me but I think I get:
AIWB
right side
medium guard
split loop medium + split loop high
extra tuck :cool:

This is the second grey holster I got from him after using black forever. I think it's less severe and attention-getting if inadvertently exposed to view while I'm concealing. I tried the first one (an OWB 1911 holster I needed when wearing a suit) on Tony's advice and the difference was enough to convince me to go grey again. I'm sure there will be plenty more pics of the gun in the holster coming over the year.

[Casual Friday]

Todd, what is your thoughts on the E2 grip? I liked the E2-ish style grips on my Sig Pro well enough while shooting the pistol, but they rub my delicate side meat raw after carrying all day. I ordered a blank sheet of rubber material from Talon Grips and they seem just as grippy without the abrasiveness on my skin.

(I should note that I do not wear undershirts even in Winter.)

[ToddG]

I never have a gun against my skin, there's always an undershirt so I'm not concerned about that.

The E2 grips are ridiculously thin compared to everything I'm used to with SIG from my time there. I actually liked the old stock 2-piece grips, but there is something nice about not worrying about grip screws backing out (especially prevalent with the P229 40/357 frame this gun is based on because the screws have to be so short).

My intent is to swap mine out with Lasergrips, which are quite thick. So that will be a pretty significant change. But the benefit of the laser makes it worth it to me.

[Padwan]

You know, I've been using Tony's holsters for so long at this point I just order "aiwb" and he puts them together the way I need. So he might come in and correct me but I think I get:
AIWB
right side
medium guard
split loop medium + split loop high
extra tuck :cool:



Not to derail the thread, but did you also have your JM built this way when you were carrying the Warren 1911?

Am looking to get an AIWB from Tony but was wondering if the extra tuck option was worth getting on a holster that will carry a full-sized pistol. (92FS in my case)

That SIG is possibly the only pistol you've posted about that has us drooling even before the 50k round testing begins. :)

[ToddG]

I think so.

The tuck thing is very individual. It has a lot more to do with your body shape, size, and exactly where you position the gun than simply "tuck good, tuck bad."

[Eternal24k]

Todd, which internal parts would you say bebefitted the most from the slick coating? Now you have me thinking about sending some parts from my P226SL

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[BLR]

Todd, which internal parts would you say bebefitted the most from the slick coating? Now you have me thinking about sending some parts from my P226SL

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Everything connected to the trigger.

[ToddG]

Todd, which internal parts would you say bebefitted the most from the slick coating? Now you have me thinking about sending some parts from my P226SL


The metal ones? :cool:

Seriously, I'm not qualified to answer. Presumably everything benefits in some way. Figuring out which was "most" and which maybe could live without... beyond me.

For example, I was surprised he did the extractor. But thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense. I never would have asked him to refinish that part but now it's inherently lubricious and the surface is harder.

He didn't do the trigger pin. I'm guessing for looks. I'm also guessing that means he didn't see any benefit to doing the trigger pin. So I guess in that case, it would be a matter of whether you like the pin looking one color or the other.

All of which is to say if it were me I would (and obviously DID) put the thing in the hands of the expert and tell him to do what was best.

[ssb]

Not to derail the thread, but did you also have your JM built this way when you were carrying the Warren 1911?

Am looking to get an AIWB from Tony but was wondering if the extra tuck option was worth getting on a holster that will carry a full-sized pistol. (92FS in my case)

That SIG is possibly the only pistol you've posted about that has us drooling even before the 50k round testing begins. :)

I carry an HK P30, and recently received a holster with nearly the same setup as Mr. Green's.

Background:
- If I had one major gripe about the P30, it is that I think the grip should be shorter. The slide is a "compact" to me, but the grip is that of a full-sized pistol.
- In 2012, I suffered from complications from a pre-existing condition which led to an extended hospital stay. In short, my leg don't work too good no more; it's going to take a while to rebuild strength there. I am currently unable to do much of what I was previously able to do physically. Further, starting law school, and the stresses that come with that, has not helped my figure. Over a year and a half, I jumped from 160lbs to around 180lbs.
- Previously, I carried a Glock 19 in a CCC Shaggy. That was my first "real" AIWB holster, and worked extremely well when I was in better shape. It now wears like a colostomy bag.

Anyhow, post-getting fat and with the trouble I was having with the Shaggy, I decided thinner was better. That worked out decently with the Glock 19 and a Raven Vanguard II, likely as a result of two things: 1) low ride height, and 2) the Glock's short height. However, my drawstroke suffered. I made the decision to switch to the P30 late last year, and followed a similar approach. It... didn't work. The grip was being pushed outward by my gut.

The Shaggy has a rather extreme "wedge" IMO, which tourques the grip inward at the belt line. That's why it works so well, but that doesn't make it fat-people-friendly. The JM AIWB has a similar feature, but isn't as extreme as the Shaggy to my eye. It subjectively feels slimmer at the belt line, which was important to me. However, the "tuck" (bulge at the bottom) forces the grip into my stomach. The tuck rides around the V between my pelvis and thigh, and is not uncomfortable. Further, I have no reason to believe that the holster will not work equally well as I continue losing weight.

Anyhow, don't know if that helps you, but it's what I've got.

[BaiHu]

He didn't do the trigger pin. I'm guessing for looks.

Wait, you didn't want it done it orange?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[ToddG]

Took some trigger measurements.

Reset from fully pinned trigger to reset point: 0.113"
Overtravel (from break to fully pinned trigger): 0.045" ... this is tricky to pin down but I got fairly consistent numbers over ten measurements; I'd say +/- 0.010 is probably a fair judgment of its accuracy

[Palmguy]

Wait, you didn't want it done it orange?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

:D That would have been a nice touch.

[justintime]

Hardening the extractor is of great interest to me. I would have liked to see the stock one go through its paces though

[Magic_Salad0892]

Wait, you didn't want it done it orange?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I hereby petition that Todd gets an orange trigger pin.

[ToddG]

Added a little JBW overtravel pad to the back of the trigger. After a smarter, more accurate set of measurements the numbers are now:
reset (from fully pinned to capable of firing): 0.096"
overtravel (from break to fully pinned): 0.021"

I may remove a little more material from the "stop" because I don't know that 0.02 of overtravel is enough to guarantee reliability.

[Casual Friday]

I actually just googled "JBW overtravel pad" and then it immediately donned on me what the "JBW" stands for.

[Slavex]

You know Todd, now that you are an official tinkerer why not pull the trigger and drill it for a set screw? You could do two pre and over travel.

[ToddG]

Behold my gunsmithing mastery:

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/jbwovertravel.jpg

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/jbwovertravel2.jpg

[John Ralston]

Behold my gunsmithing mastery

TOTALLY impressed

[justintime]

any reason not to do this? cause I have lots of jb :P

[JodyH]

There oughta be a 30 day cooling off period (and mental evaluation) before anyone can use JB-Weld or a Dremel on a firearm.

[GJM]

I still remember when I tried to dehorn a P7, after returning from Gunsite. That was the beginning and end of my gunsmith career, excepting working on Glocks which doesn't really count as gunsmithing.

[justintime]

I still remember when I tried to dehorn a P7, after returning from Gunsite. That was the beginning and end of my gunsmith career, excepting working on Glocks which doesn't really count as gunsmithing.

what about when you undercut a trigger guard too far?

[Casual Friday]

There oughta be a 30 day cooling off period (and mental evaluation) before anyone can use JB-Weld or a Dremel on a firearm.

I support background checks on all Dremel sales.

[Jaywalker]

I still remember when I tried to dehorn a P7, after returning from Gunsite. That was the beginning and end of my gunsmith career, excepting working on Glocks which doesn't really count as gunsmithing.
This would be a "+1" for me on other fora, but as the rules suggest it's contraindicated on this one, I'll add to it. I get an urge to modify my Browning HP every once in awhile - the latest being to change my firing pin block with a flat-bottomed one - though if I lie down and close my eyes the urge soon goes away.

[ToddG]

Four friends and I put 100 rounds through Moran today. First time I've shot a gun all year. Wow, I didn't remember how much fun it was! :cool:

Function was perfect, and inside 10yd I was ok. But I was shooting 8-10" high at 25yd due to heeling. Luckily, that's something I can work on in dry fire!

Thanks to joshs, FredM, JV, and Tom Ives!

[klewis]

Four friends and I put 100 rounds through Moran today. First time I've shot a gun all year. Wow, I didn't remember how much fun it was! :cool:
...

That's great to hear, Todd! :) Glad you had fun, it's an amazing gun.

[Trukinjp13]

Four friends and I put 100 rounds through Moran today. First time I've shot a gun all year. Wow, I didn't remember how much fun it was! :cool:

Function was perfect, and inside 10yd I was ok. But I was shooting 8-10" high at 25yd due to heeling. Luckily, that's something I can work on in dry fire!
Thats awesome! Nothing like some real therapy!
Thanks to joshs, FredM, JV, and Tom Ives!

That's awesome! Nothing like sig therapy!

[WilsonCombatRep]

Four friends and I put 100 rounds through Moran today. First time I've shot a gun all year. Wow, I didn't remember how much fun it was! :cool:

Function was perfect, and inside 10yd I was ok. But I was shooting 8-10" high at 25yd due to heeling. Luckily, that's something I can work on in dry fire!

Thanks to joshs, FredM, JV, and Tom Ives! Probably your goofy sight picture! Glad to see you got to shoot that badass pistol.

[BLR]

Ahem.

Pictures, please.

[ToddG]

Pictures, please.

You forget what it looks like already? :cool:

[ToddG]

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/hillpeoplerunnerskitbag.jpg

From the "When Will It Stop? (http://pistol-training.com/archives/9019)" contest... if anyone is interested...

[BLR]

That really is a nice looking gun. I'm going to do my own P220 Elite Dark exactly like that as soon as I get some other stuff off my desk.

Incidentally, my CQB w/o lube went just over 5k at a custom shop doing a T&E of that exact coating. Food for contest thought.

[gtmtnbiker98]

What holster are you using, Todd?

[ToddG]

JM Custom Kydex aiwb (http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html). Works really well but I've got a ton of grip space between the belt line and my hand on the draw so I've asked Tony to make me a canted belt loop like I used with the 1911. It should still give me a fast full grip but lower the gun a bit and prevent the butt-heavy gun from yawing even more.

[ToddG]

While I wait on the 429MIL grips, I tossed a set of old tortured LGs on my pistol to get used to the different grip size compared to the E2 treatment.

The MILs are better in this regard but the rubber ones leave a bit to be desired in one area:

2201

Any thoughts about resolving that somehow? It makes for a heck of a multi-step stumble if you drive your magazine into that gap.

[SiGFever]

Mr. Green,
I am glad to hear that you are doing much better! I have enjoyed and learned so much from reading your forum and posts, thank you. SiG's are dear to my heart but all I have left is my P226 "NSW" Navy that is spooky accurate and will never be sold. Several SiG's have come and gone, P239, P229's, P220ST, but the P226 stays. I really like how my old P229's handled and in hind sight should have kept one. My only H&K left is a USPc .40 V1 "AF" that shoots very nice. Two P2000SK's LEM have come and gone, never could justify the extra weight against my G26. I have been drawn to a P30 LEM or V3 to try but buying ammo outweighs the extra pistol. I look forward to your journey with that fine SiG.

I noticed your sig line "Rampage for the Cure", I have computers that do computational chemistry and since 2001 have been doing cancer research with WorldCommunityGrid.org in conjunction with IBM. People from all over the world donate their computer time to help find cures for some of the terrible diseases that have taken so many good people way before their time. Keep up the good fight sir and may God Bless and guide your journey.
John

[Spr1]

While I wait on the 429MIL grips, I tossed a set of old tortured LGs on my pistol to get used to the different grip size compared to the E2 treatment.

The MILs are better in this regard but the rubber ones leave a bit to be desired in one area:

2201

Any thoughts about resolving that somehow? It makes for a heck of a multi-step stumble if you drive your magazine into that gap.

The first thing I would do would be to take the screws out and see if it is possible to slightly reposition the grips. If the screw holes don't line up adequately after that, I would see if the judicious use of a small file/tool on the screw holes in the grip could allow it to work. Some internal work on the plastic skeleton of the grip along the inside/back might be required.

[Casual Friday]

There's very few problems in life that can't be solved with JB Weld and a Dremel.

[BLR]

While I wait on the 429MIL grips, I tossed a set of old tortured LGs on my pistol to get used to the different grip size compared to the E2 treatment.

The MILs are better in this regard but the rubber ones leave a bit to be desired in one area:

2201

Any thoughts about resolving that somehow? It makes for a heck of a multi-step stumble if you drive your magazine into that gap.

That's some real ugly, right there.

[JeffJ]

There's very few problems in life that can't be solved with JB Weld and a Dremel.




or caused...





Sent from my phone Tapatalk

[Casual Friday]

or caused...





Sent from my phone Tapatalk

Oh ye of little faith.....

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[Eternal24k]

I would take the grips off, make a shelf to simulate the frame and build a ramp with JB and blend it

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[MGW]

I now have a greater appreciation of the why for all the work that went into this pistol. I looked at a new in the box 226 MK25 today. The trigger and decocker absolutely sucked mountain oysters. It gave me the heebie jeebies.

[warpedcamshaft]

I happened upon a German built 226 from about the 1996 era in almost brand new condition about a year and a half ago...

I'm really glad I picked that one up, or I would have some serious Gun Acquisition Syndrome after reading these threads.

[ToddG]

Folks... please keep the thread on-topic. Thank you.

[John Ralston]

Todd,

Did you stick with the factory mainspring or did you opt for an aftermarket spring to lighten the DA up a little?

[ToddG]

JR -- I'm guessing (but have not confirmed with SIG yet) that with the E2 changes, the factory mainspring got lighter. I've measured trigger pull of the factory spring against two Wolff springs each advertised as 17# and the DA was a quarter pound lighter with the factory spring.

[John Ralston]

Thanks. I converted my P220 to the E2 and it just feels different for some reason. Not bad, just different. I need to get more trigger time before I make any conclusions.

[JDM]

Todd,

How light a mainspring can one put in a 229(8) before light-strikes become a problem? All my SIGs have Wolff 21# mainsprings in them, and while the DA pull provided by this configuration isn't unmanageable, I'm not exactly adverse to something a little lighter.

GJM was having some light strike issues in some SIGs of his with lighter mainsprings, but I haven't asked what weight springs they were fitted with.

[ToddG]

First, understand that there is a difference between 9mm and .45 ... as in, the actual SAAMI primer indent test requires a deeper impact for a .45 than a 9mm.

Most of my hammer spring experimentation happened while I was shooting a P220ST, so assume that the service life could be higher with a 9mm. Having said that, if I changed the hammer spring every 3k rounds I'd get 100% reliability with CCI primers(normally harder than Fed and Win and Rem).

Anecdotally, many folks went to the 19# Wolff and in any caliber found it essentially a lifetime spring. I know quite a few instructors and feds who switched to the 18# in 9/40/357 and never had problems. Whether the actual improvement in trigger pull was worth it I couldn't tell you.

My own testing with Moran seems to indicate that the difference between the factory spring (whatever it is now in the E2 kit), and 19, 18, and 17# Wolff springs is slight enough not to make a consistent difference. I'm not sure if that's an effect of the different parts in the E2 as opposed to the older version from when I was at SIG, because back then the jump from factory to 17# was good for 1.5-2# in DA easily. I had one well worn-in 9mm that had a DA pull between 7 and 8 pounds, no action work, just an 18# hammer spring. Whereas Moran with a super-slick coating on the internals and action job still measures more than 9# no matter what spring I put in it.

The action is smooth and controllable and has a great roll through the end of the DA stroke, though... all things that matter far more to me (and my speed/accuracy) than 8# versus 9#.

[BLR]

First, understand that there is a difference between 9mm and .45 ... as in, the actual SAAMI primer indent test requires a deeper impact for a .45 than a 9mm.

Most of my hammer spring experimentation happened while I was shooting a P220ST, so assume that the service life could be higher with a 9mm. Having said that, if I changed the hammer spring every 3k rounds I'd get 100% reliability with CCI primers(normally harder than Fed and Win and Rem).

Anecdotally, many folks went to the 19# Wolff and in any caliber found it essentially a lifetime spring. I know quite a few instructors and feds who switched to the 18# in 9/40/357 and never had problems. Whether the actual improvement in trigger pull was worth it I couldn't tell you.

My own testing with Moran seems to indicate that the difference between the factory spring (whatever it is now in the E2 kit), and 19, 18, and 17# Wolff springs is slight enough not to make a consistent difference. I'm not sure if that's an effect of the different parts in the E2 as opposed to the older version from when I was at SIG, because back then the jump from factory to 17# was good for 1.5-2# in DA easily. I had one well worn-in 9mm that had a DA pull between 7 and 8 pounds, no action work, just an 18# hammer spring. Whereas Moran with a super-slick coating on the internals and action job still measures more than 9# no matter what spring I put in it.

The action is smooth and controllable and has a great roll through the end of the DA stroke, though... all things that matter far more to me (and my speed/accuracy) than 8# versus 9#.

Was the well worn 9mm a SRT equipped gun?

[ToddG]

Was the well worn 9mm a SRT equipped gun?

Yes. It was actually one of the original six or so hand made prototypes now that you mention it...

[BLR]

Yes. It was actually one of the original six or so hand made prototypes now that you mention it...

:cool:

No....

That's :cool: :cool:

[chiral]

How appropriate Mr. toddG got post #229. Don't mind me I'm just the fng here. Having a blast reading and learning on this forum though!

[Rich]

JM Custom Kydex aiwb (http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html). Works really well but I've got a ton of grip space between the belt line and my hand on the draw so I've asked Tony to make me a canted belt loop like I used with the 1911. It should still give me a fast full grip but lower the gun a bit and prevent the butt-heavy gun from yawing even more.

I had a hard time finding a simple fold over IWB that gave a low ride and a straight drop for my P229.

My P229 grip sit just above the belt with just enough room to get a full grip. Bladetech stop making them. BUT its the same IWB as there (one fits all SIG) but with the nose cut off to accept longer P226 . You might check it out?

I think compact pistols like the M&P9C 6906,P229 are best with a low ride and zero cant.

[JDM]

Thanks for the info!

[MDS]

"Mr. Green," said the youth,
"I've heard stronger men squeal
"Of your TDA SIG -
"How you spring it!
"Yet you cleaned the course -
"And that fifty-yard steel!
"Pray, how did you manage
"To ring it?"

"In my youth," he replied,
"As a gun-gaming ringer,
"I played FoF with my wife.
"And the muscular strength
"That gave my trigger finger
"Has lasted the rest of my life."


ETA: pretty sure the original was about him, as well. ;)