Mandatory Ingredients for Thrillers

[TR675]

No, not "take 30 zombies, a pretty girl, choreography, add MJ in a sweet red jacket, spice to taste with 'the Howling', and whisk vigorously", but novels. Ones with serial tough-guy protagonists, to be precise.

I like these things because they let me shut my brain off after a long day of thinking real hard, but I'm getting a bit fed up with their tropes. Recently I started reading the Jack Reacher books, and...I'm done. Too much derp in there. All of these series (Hammer, Reacher, Spenser, Travis McGee) are pretty much the same:

1. Tough guy. He's the biggest and toughest. Sometimes he's not the biggest, but definitely tougher than the bigger guy.

2. Faintly disapproving attitude towards violence and firearms, except for the righteous violence visited upon all and sundry by the protagonist.

3. Law enforcement is, at best, mildly retarded. At worst, completely retarded and evil.

4. Wildly elaborate conspiracies by the bad guy that make little or no sense.

5. Zero legal repercussions for the protagonist, despite stacking bodies like cordwood. See (3), above.

6. Just enough technical knowledge on the part of the writer to indicate that he read three old issues of Guns'n'Ammo to learn about some strange new gun for the baddie/hero to use; not nearly enough research to realize that every other technical statement about cars, guns, the law, etc. is completely out of whack.

The Spenser and Travis McGee books handled most of these issues better than a lot of other series. The Mike Hammer books were pretty pulpy. The Reacher series is by far the worst sinner.

I don't know if what I'm really saying here is that I'd like to see a book series about a wimpy guy who solves simple problems with nonviolent solutions just to end up in jail, with narrative interspersed with chapters lifted straight from technical manuals. But if you have any pointers to better written and non-cliched series, please point me to them. (And yes, I've read Bosch too).

[Bigguy]

No, not "take 30 zombies, a pretty girl, choreography, add MJ in a sweet red jacket, spice to taste with 'the Howling', and whisk vigorously", but novels. Ones with serial tough-guy protagonists, to be precise.

I'm pretty well out at this point then. My taste in entertainment was once described by a pithy co-worker as, "Rambo with hooters."

[1slow]

Travis McGee I liked because of some of the observations on human nature, I really liked the last 1/2 of the Green Ripper. Matt Helm I liked because of the attitude of the character and his realistic ruthlessness.
Since about age 12, I have had no patience with characters that, do things that even my sheltered self thought were not through enough to solve the problem, whine about winning when losing would have horrible consequences.

[mc1911]

This won't really count as ingredients but . . . If you are looking for better gun stuff, Stephen Hunter is about as good as it gets in my experience (although Swagger uses Kimbers in a few books, though probably just because most readers have seen the name). For general decent thrillers, I think few do it better than John Sandford. His early books were heavy on serial killers and at times a little too twisted for my taste but that tapers off. I didn't stop reading his stuff over it but I likely would have if he hadn't broadened the scope a bit into more run of the mill killers.

CJ Box's protagonist is a game warden, which I found refreshing but the action isn't riveting and he pushes the "good guy code" unrealistically. The one where the good guy won't just do the obvious thing that makes sense so there has to be a sidekick who has fewer qualms around for dirty work. Sometimes that gets old but he doesn't ruin the series with it and the setting in Wyoming is hard to beat.

I like the Harry Bosch books. Connelly spins a pretty good mystery, which is why I don't generally think of them as thrillers although I guess they can fit that category. You are correct that gun play isn't all that but I can accept that it isn't his point. I haven't been able to try the Reacher books because they just look like they would be as you described, although I enjoyed the movie.

Fact is, aside from Hunter, I'm not aware of any authors that are gun guys so you have to expect there to be some lack in that area. But the ones I've listed here do a decent job in creating the mental escape you mentioned and the good guys are tough but not the biggest and baddest always, every time and are therefore more realistic and entertaining. IMHO.

[Erik]

The Mike Hammer books were pretty pulpy.

To my mind (taste, maybe) Mickey Spillane wrote some of the best tough guys ever. In part, that's because they give me a glimpse into a different time, but only in part.

[NickA]

Huge +1 for John Sandford, both the "Prey" series with Lucas Davenport, and the Virgil Flowers series. Davenport especially is very tough, and throughout the series occasionally suffers the consequences of getting outside the lines. (The character is a career cop who made a lot of money with a software company, so he's not too worried about job security. And drives a Porsche :D) Another neat thing about Davenport is that he's aged along with the series, going from hard nosed, brawling, woman chasing cop to a more strategic thinking, married family man.
If you can handle a more supernatural bent to your detective stories try John Connolly's Charlie Parker books. Fantastically creepy sometimes, and definitely a flawed hero.

[JAD]

First, you should probably read everything by Raymond Chandler. Heinlein often wrote into the same box, and I think William Gibson and Philip K Dick's work is often of the same genre in a sense.

[TR675]

Stephen Hunter is about as good as it gets in my experience...

Done, and agree.


John Sandford...


Huge +1 for John Sandford...

John Connolly's Charlie Parker ...

I'll check them out. Thanks.


To my mind (taste, maybe) Mickey Spillane wrote some of the best tough guys ever. In part, that's because they give me a glimpse into a different time, but only in part.

Agree, and do I like them for that reason.


First, you should probably read everything by Raymond Chandler. Heinlein often wrote into the same box, and I think William Gibson and Philip K Dick's work is often of the same genre in a sense.

I never did read Chandler, and will give it a try. Heinlein and Dick are favorites of mine (phrasing?).

[klewis]

If you're willing to mix werewolves with your thrillers, check out Larry Correia's books. He has three series running, Dead Six (with co-author, no werewolves), Monster Hunter (werewolves), and Grim Noir (set in the 30s, super powers and 1911s). He's an actual Gun Guy, and writes a good story.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/

[LHS]

If you're willing to mix werewolves with your thrillers, check out Larry Correia's books. He has three series running, Dead Six (with co-author, no werewolves), Monster Hunter (werewolves), and Grim Noir (set in the 30s, super powers and 1911s). He's an actual Gun Guy, and writes a good story.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/

I'm about halfway through his first Monster Hunter book. I'm vacillating back and forth on his 'gun guy' status. Main character carries an 870. Cool. Main character also carries a Kimber/BUL 1911. WTF? Main character gets a Saiga auto shotgun and has the barrel Vang comped. Cool. Main character appreciates the .45 Beretta Cougar. WTF?

[LHS]

Back on the OP's topic, though, I highly recommend Michael Z. Williamson's "Ripple Creek" series, beginning with Better to Beg Forgiveness. It's sci-fi, but it's good sci-fi.

[Drang]

Travis McGee I liked .... Matt Helm I liked ....

John D. MacDonald (Travis MacGee) and Donald Hamilton (Matt Helm) were both OSS in WWII.
FWIW.

[Joe in PNG]

I'm a bit more forgiving of firearms strangeness in older works of fiction. Even the experts had some, shall we say, odd ideas on the subject of firearms technology at that point in time.

And I too almost grew up reading the Travis McGee books- still do.

[da6dspanburg]

Eric Haney (of Delta Force) has 2 novels out that I thought were good. The 1st one is Low Country and the sequel is No Man's Land.

da6d

[NETim]

I burned out on the "Reacher" series early. Every story read the same. And he's invincible and can do no wrong. Still like the movie, even if there's the occasional slap at gun owners.

Recently, I've been having fun reading Joe Nobody's "The Independents" series. It's survivalist fiction full of little tidbits that make me go "hmmm, hadn't thought about that" quite often.

Oh yeah, and Bracken. :)

[mc1911]

One I forgot about is Dick Couch. He's best known for several documentary type books about SEAL training and deployment as well as at least one about SF training. Lesser known are his handful of fiction books featuring SEALS that were actually pretty good. He served as a SEAL in Vietnam so his technical knowledge is solid. It has been years since I read the fiction books but I don't recall anything that wasn't decent. Worth checking the library shelves.

[littlejerry]

If you're willing to mix werewolves with your thrillers, check out Larry Correia's books. He has three series running, Dead Six (with co-author, no werewolves), Monster Hunter (werewolves), and Grim Noir (set in the 30s, super powers and 1911s). He's an actual Gun Guy, and writes a good story.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/

I'm finishing up dead six right now and frankly the intense focus on guns and knives are a bit awkward when you read it. It almost reads like an advertisement and interrupts the flow of the book.

[Chuck Haggard]

Not a thriller, but one of the best books I have ever read that involved guns, good guys, bad guys, historical stuff, and had great characters and a cool plot was 'Janissaries'. It's SciFi, but without that dominating the book.

[X-Phile336]

I'm not sure if this relates to action hero thrillers, but I've always enjoyed the Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child books featuring the characters from the Agent Pendergast series. Reading Relic at night still scares the stuff out of me. Michael Crichton's technical thrillers are still some of my favorite.

[BWT]

Give Bernard Cornwell a shot to change it up.

He has a series on British soldiers in the 1700-1800's, IIRC. Main character's last name Sharpe.

He also has a series on Vikings.

Also has a series on an English Archer during the 100 year's war between England and France.

His writing is great, and interesting. While at the same time he's dedicated to keeping things period correct and accurate. Characters are involved in battles that actually happened, etc.

I found his work to be interesting. I think some writers get stuck in certain categories. For example, in my humble opinion, Tom Clancy. You largely know what you're getting. You can only do so much with Police novels, or Military, etc.

I'd recommend some history books. Killer Angels is a must read, IMHO. Once again, a historically accurate view of the battle at Gettysburg.

There's also books that follow Alexander the Great. From the view as his pupil/confident as he recollects the campaigns he's gone through and the one he's in. I think it's Tides of War.

[NEPAKevin]

Give Bernard Cornwell a shot to change it up.

He has a series on British soldiers in the 1700-1800's, IIRC. Main character's last name Sharpe.



NWS (swearing) but Sean Bean is English and they cuss nicer.


http://youtu.be/5C8IuThoWuU

I'm a little disappointed that Cornwell seems to have lost interest in his American civil war series.

[trailrunner]

Give Bernard Cornwell a shot to change it up.



I've read a lot of Cornwell. The Richard Sharpe series was great. Not too formulaic, plenty of drama. The hero is likable, humble, but gets the job done. His description of the sieges and the Forlorn Hope were great. Cornwell has also written a short series set in the civil war. The Fort is an intriguing story of a little-know battle in the revolutionary war. About the only book of his that I didn't like was Stonehenge.

I started reading the Patrick O'Brian series over 20 years ago, when he was just getting popular. They butchered it in the movie "Master and Commander." IMHO his writing is some of the finest I've ever read.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Fact is, aside from Hunter, I'm not aware of any authors that are gun guys so you have to expect there to be some lack in that area. But the ones I've listed here do a decent job in creating the mental escape you mentioned and the good guys are tough but not the biggest and baddest always, every time and are therefore more realistic and entertaining. IMHO.

Mark Greaney gets the gun stuff right for the most part.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=gray%20man


I don't read nearly as much as I used to way back when.

[Slavex]

you should check out some comic books dude, I swear most of the best writing is in that form. The old Vertigo line from DC especially. Covered pretty much the entire spectrum of fiction too.

[da6dspanburg]

Not a thriller, but one of the best books I have ever read that involved guns, good guys, bad guys, historical stuff, and had great characters and a cool plot was 'Janissaries'. It's SciFi, but without that dominating the book.

I agree, though it's been a long time since I read it. I may have to add it back on the 'to-read' stack.