The current state of Les Baer ?

[HCM]

I've been wanting a nice / high end 5" non rail 1911 for a bit now. I've had a Les Baer "Commanche" since 1999 and been quite satisfied with it. I've been considering a Les Baer UTC (basically a Thunder Ranch model without the Thunder Ranch markings) without the FCS.

There's a lot of knowledge in the hive mind here so I took notice when I saw these two comments in other threads:


I'll not be patronizing Les Baer ever again.


I wouldn't be buying a Les Baer just because I think there are better options from better companies to deal with.

Are there current issues with Les Baer ? if so, are they issues with the guns or issues dealing with the company ?

I bought my "Commanche" used and have never had to use their customer service. I'm actually wanting to swap the rear sight for a Novak .140 or a 10-8 .156 to accommodate my aging eyes but I'm hearing that will void the warranty ?

Thanks
HCM

[1slow]

I've had 2 Thunder Ranch, 1 Premier, 1 Super Monolith heavy weight (1.5" 50 yd guarantee). All shot well. Both TR required 1200+ rounds before they would function reliably with good ball ammo.
I would not carry any of them as a weapon and have since sold them all. They were great range toys. I would carry one of my tested Glocks , HK45s, HK p30 9mms not a Les Baer.

[SecondsCount]

Maybe there are some issues with Les Baer pistols as of late but I have a Thunder Ranch and a Concept VIII and both have been excellent. The Concept VIII is a 4.25" Stainless model that is almost 15 years old. I cleaned and lubed it, put new springs in it, and ran it for a little over 1,000 rounds in the first AFHF class that I took. One of the CM Powermags I was using stopped locking the slide back on day two but other than that there were no other malfunctions. It was my carry gun for about four years before I switched to the P30.

[Rex G]

I will be following this thread with interest, as I have been considering ordering a Monolith in a year or two, for orthopedic reasons, and perhaps a retirement gift for myself. (Weight to dampen recoil; it is he11 to get old.) My TRS, made about 1999 or 2000, did not malf once during the "required" initial 1500 rounds, and has not malfed since then, either. I will concede its round count is not high, as I went to Glock and SIGs soon afterward, and only recently re-activated the TRS.

[theJanitor]

Years ago, I bought a pair of consecutive serial numbered "commanders" from LB. It was an unusual set, as most consecutively numbered sets were Government/Commander. One went to my younger brother, as I thought sharing the set would be great for the two of us. The guns never ran right, and I later found out that mine was a 5" model with a trimmed dust cover to look like a commander. The rails and recoil seat location were not cut to commander spec. I don't know if my Brother's is the same, as he just relegated his to the back of the safe.

A call to LB to discuss the wrong dimensions was not handled as well as I would have like. I still have the unaltered gun in my safe. I'll only buy guns built by men who back up their work.

[R0CKETMAN]

I've been wanting a nice / high end 5" non rail 1911 for a bit now. I've had a Les Baer "Commanche" since 1999 and been quite satisfied with it. I've been considering a Les Baer UTC (basically a Thunder Ranch model without the Thunder Ranch markings) without the FCS.

There's a lot of knowledge in the hive mind here so I took notice when I saw these two comments in other threads:





Are there current issues with Les Baer ? if so, are they issues with the guns or issues dealing with the company ?

I bought my "Commanche" used and have never had to use their customer service. I'm actually wanting to swap the rear sight for a Novak .140 or a 10-8 .156 to accommodate my aging eyes but I'm hearing that will void the warranty ?

Thanks
HCM

I've owned two new government sized Baers and put lots of miles on both odos. Whomever stated the quotes you noted above it partially right as options are limited. However, the price point is much less than most in the category. No other semi custom maker has the degree of hand fitting that a Baer does. As for sights voiding the warranty, I doubt it, but who cares as you'll most likely never need it. With Alchemy being on your side for any potential issues, I'd buy in confidence.

[TCinVA]

My Baer has been about as trouble free as a 1911 can be. Unfortunately I've encountered a number of other Baer owners who can't say the same, and their dealings with the company haven't exactly been stellar.

If there is an issue Baer's customer support can be helpful, or can basically tell you to take a long walk off a short pier. Les himself has a reputation as being somewhat of a prickly fellow at times...

I view buying a custom 1911 in terms of risk. Based on what I've learned over the years I believe I'd have a lower risk buying from someone else if I were in the custom/semi-custom 1911 market these days.

[Papalapa]

I've never owned any Les Baer guns but shot a lot of rounds threw about five of them that belonged to different friends. I'm also no 1911 expert but my experience was that they were so tight that even when lubed well they might hiccup every once in awhile. IMHO they were so tight the lube seemed to wear off quicker than my Nighthawk in say the same amount of 300 rounds or so.

Personally when I went the subjective high end to me 1911 route I wanted a Wilson Combat CQB. I ended up with a Nighthawk Talon based on Wilson wait time and about a $900.00 price difference at the time. I looked at and considered the LB guns but my short experience with them sent me the Nighthawk route.

That was a few years ago and I got away from 1911's since than. But to my way of thinking "high end" 1911 users can fall into some of the traps as polymer fanboy users. I.e. I love my Glocks more than M&P or p30's etc.....and vice versa for whatever real or imagined reason. Even though all of these polymer gems are adequate, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. You may have better luck with some makers vs others but when you cross that $2,000 and up limit you should be happy. "Should be".

I don't know what's changed in last three years but if it was like 5-6 years ago I personally had zero problems with the Nighthawk and never regretted that decision. If I went back to another 1911 if there was still a $900.00 or more difference over a Wilson it would be a no brained. But I've always wanted a WC.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and how it turns out.

[TCinVA]

I believe Kevin B had a NH that was a real dog until someone worked it over to fix what was ailing it...and it wasn't exactly a bargain basement gun to start with, IIRC.

Therein lies the problem with the 1911 world in general. When a 1911 is done correctly it's a darn good sidearm. When it isn't done correctly it's a misery, typically an expensive one at that.

[JV_]

I believe Kevin B had a NH that was a real dog until someone worked it over to fix what was ailing itSo did I. The trigger had reset issues and was eventually fixed by Virgil Tripp. I sent it back to NH multiple times and they couldn't get it right.

[Savage Hands]

My Les Baer TRS was stellar for the 1 1/2 years and ~6,000 rounds I had it before I sold it, the overly tight feeling went away after a week with a proper break in. I did have some work from John Harrison and had it coated in Ionbond DLC, and it still came in under $2,500 for a customized 1911 made the way I wanted.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/Old%20guns/Harrison%20Baer/4116a819.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/Old%20guns/Harrison%20Baer/IMG_06232.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/Old%20guns/Harrison%20Baer/IMG641.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/Old%20guns/Harrison%20Baer/IMG_0626.jpg




If I ever buy a 1911 again, I'll buy a Wilson Combat CQB in 9mm.

[HCM]

My Les Baer TRS was stellar for the 1 1/2 years and ~6,000 rounds I had it before I sold it, the overly tight feeling went away after a week with a proper break in. I did have some work from John Harrison and had it coated in Ionbond DLC, and it still came in under $2,500 for a customized 1911 made the way I wanted.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/Old%20guns/Harrison%20Baer/4116a819.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/Old%20guns/Harrison%20Baer/IMG_06232.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/Old%20guns/Harrison%20Baer/IMG641.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/Old%20guns/Harrison%20Baer/IMG_0626.jpg




If I ever buy a 1911 again, I'll buy a Wilson Combat CQB in 9mm.

Thank you all for the replies.

Shenaniguns, Very nice TRS, are those 10-8 sights or Heinie ledge ?

Back in the late 1990's, my local indoor range had a Les Baer 5" gun with MMC adjustable sights. I shot that gun quite abit. Sample of one but it was 100% even filthy and shooting commercial reloads. First 1911 I shot with a "high Grip cut" and I was hooked. That lead me to pick up my Les Baer "Commanche" ( Commander) in 1999. I wanted a 5" gun but it was two good a deal to pass up. It has run well and accuracy is very good.

I also have a Springer MC Operator. It's a good reliable gun but a step below LB or DW interms of accuracy, trigger pull and fit. Wilson and Nighthawks are great guns and a step above DW and LB. For me, a LB or a Dan Wesson Valor is worth the extra $$$ over a Springfield. I'm trying to figure out if Wilson or NH is worth the extra $800-900 over the LB / DW.

Like anything hand built, 1911's, even high end ones can be a bit of a lottery.

[Savage Hands]

Thanks HCM, they are actually 10-8 sights originally but the U shape didn't work for me and I had them squared out lol.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/Old%20guns/Harrison%20Baer/IMG644.jpg

[HCM]

Nice work. Harrison ?

What was the issue ? burying the brass bead in the U notch ?

I was drooling over a NH with the Heinie Ledge sights recently at my LGS. Great sights.

[Savage Hands]

Nice work. Harrison ?

What was the issue ? burying the brass bead in the U notch ?

I was drooling over a NH with the Heinie Ledge sights recently at my LGS. Great sights.

Bruce Gray did the install and cut the sights, it was awhile back but I remember vertical stringing with it.

[UNK]

At one point in time the 4.25" guns were built on govt frames. The dimensions are different on the rails. This made the 4.25 guns have a hit or miss reputation. They are tight. Some polishing compound and fifty or so manipulations of the slide makes a difference.

[JFK]

When I first got really serious about carrying a pistol everyday it was a Custom Carry. I have gone to the polymer side, but I still love to shoot this in matches and every time I pick it up I want to carry it again.

I have run it hard, put about 10k rounds through it, clean it every 2k or so, etc. I have never been disappointed.

Here is a picture before the blue wore off. The finish is very weak, but looks so cool when they get broken in and used.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7028/6799709787_cb0ec88a46_z.jpg

[Mark]

The above reasons are why I have decided to stick with Springfield NM serial numbered production guns, although now that they're not bringing in guns from Brazil anymore they're all NM guns. I have had everything through the WC CQB guns in terms of 1911 price range but went to M&P's and HK's for a while. I ended up back with 1911's because for me there is no other gun that let's me get off a failure drill anywhere near as fast and accurate. This time when I got back into 1911's I decided to grab a Range Officer because of all the good reviews and Springfields declaration that it was built to TRP quality. When I bought the Range Officer, I also saw a new NM Loaded. I talked with some knowledgable people and learned that the new Loadeds come with the same components as on the TRP/RO/TM but the parts weren't as cherry picked for fit. I figured I'd give it a shot and grabbed it as well to have a back up. The RO slide promptly came off and made its way to John Harrison for a fixed u notch rear and fiber optic front. The RO shot very good groups right out of the box and has yet to record a stoppage with a variety of mixmatched ammo. The Loaded functioned fine but was mediocre accuracy wise, about at M&P level. I called Springfield and explained this and asked their opinion and they said send it back and we'll check it out. I did so and a month later it came back with a note explaining they had fit a new slide and barrel and had sent along a test target that showed a 5 shot just under 1.5 inch group at 25 yards.

The way I view it, based on my experience, I got two 1911's for about $1800 that are both as accurate as I can be and have been as reliable as any other gun I've owned. They are backed by an outstanding company with a high end custom shop if I ever want any further work done and will forever be under warranty. If you can't tell my experience has made me a Springfield fan. I may end up with another semi-custom level 1911 at some point because they are a work of art, but for a gun that's going to be carried and banged around on patrol, I'd go Springfield they're built well in general and if you do have any concerns they take care of you without hesitation. Of course if you have an extra $600 over the $1800 I spent, don't mind waiting a year or so, and don't have the obsessive need I do for a back up gun, just start out with a Springfield Custom Carry and have the best of both worlds.

[LittleLebowski]

The above reasons are why I have decided to stick with Springfield NM serial numbered production guns, although now that they're not bringing in guns from Brazil anymore they're all NM guns. I have had everything through the WC CQB guns in terms of 1911 price range but went to M&P's and HK's for a while. I ended up back with 1911's because for me there is no other gun that let's me get off a failure drill anywhere near as fast and accurate. This time when I got back into 1911's I decided to grab a Range Officer because of all the good reviews and Springfields declaration that it was built to TRP quality. When I bought the Range Officer, I also saw a new NM Loaded. I talked with some knowledgable people and learned that the new Loadeds come with the same components as on the TRP/RO/TM but the parts weren't as cherry picked for fit. I figured I'd give it a shot and grabbed it as well to have a back up. The RO slide promptly came off and made its way to John Harrison for a fixed u notch rear and fiber optic front. The RO shot very good groups right out of the box and has yet to record a stoppage with a variety of mixmatched ammo. The Loaded functioned fine but was mediocre accuracy wise, about at M&P level. I called Springfield and explained this and asked their opinion and they said send it back and we'll check it out. I did so and a month later it came back with a note explaining they had fit a new slide and barrel and had sent along a test target that showed a 5 shot just under 1.5 inch group at 25 yards.

The way I view it, based on my experience, I got two 1911's for about $1800 that are both as accurate as I can be and have been as reliable as any other gun I've owned. They are backed by an outstanding company with a high end custom shop if I ever want any further work done and will forever be under warranty. If you can't tell my experience has made me a Springfield fan. I may end up with another semi-custom level 1911 at some point because they are a work of art, but for a gun that's going to be carried and banged around on patrol, I'd go Springfield they're built well in general and if you do have any concerns they take care of you without hesitation. Of course if you have an extra $600 over the $1800 I spent, don't mind waiting a year or so, and don't have the obsessive need I do for a back up gun, just start out with a Springfield Custom Carry and have the best of both worlds.

Perhaps you should start a thread about your Springfields. This one is about Les Baers.

[farscott]

I have owned more than a few Les Baer pistols, including three Stingers (basically a 4.25" slide on a frame set for Officer's ACP magazines), a TRS HD, a TRS Comanche (basically a Commander albeit with some very important differences), and a Heavyweight Monolith in 9x19. Along the way I learned a few things, and it was an expensive education.

First, the five-inch guns were all excellent and all ran well as range toys. The TRS HD once broken-in was also great. When new, it had the habit of failing to fully return to battery. A few thousand rounds solved that. The 9x19 Mono is too much fun as it had no real perceived recoil and is amazingly accurate.

The shorter guns were a bit messy and the reason I had three Stingers was trying to get one that ran. Along the way, I learned that the Comanche and Stinger frames use Government model dimensions with a shorter dust cover and a shorter grip frame on the Stinger. It is mostly correct to say that a Baer Comanche frame is a Baer Premier II frame with the dust cover trimmed. The net result is that there is less slide travel in the Comanche than in the Colt Commander. The easy way to see that is to lock back the slide of a Commander and a Comanche and see how much of the disconnect tunnel is visible in each design. How that impacts reliability is the result of both tolerance stack and shooter input. For example, I tend to feed the first round in a magazine from slide lock by pulling back the slide -- the slingshot. That did not work on the TRS Comanche and on two of the Stingers due to the decreased slide travel not allowing the slide stop to cam down. The TRS Comanche was also a problematic feeding pistol with any magazine I tried. I contacted Baer, and he told me that his guns are not expected to use the slingshot method. He did agree to look at the TRS Comanche, had it for three weeks, and sent it back in the same condition. I then did a lot of digging and a lot of measuring.

The fix is to send the gun to John Harrison so he can machine the frame to provide the Commander amount of slide travel. Well the TRS Comanche was already hard chromed, so that was an expensive fix to a not inexpensive pistol. That gun got sold to a buddy who understood the issue and did not care.

One Stinger I sent to John had a lot of machining done to make it 100%, and it has been very reliable. It was sold to another buddy who wanted it more than I did. My other Stingers are in the safe, waiting for a decision on what to do with them. One thought is to fit a five-inch upper to the frame, making a CCO-Long.

Summary: Five-inch Baer pistols were good. Shorter guns, not so much. Caveat emptor.

[UNK]

I have owned more than a few Les Baer pistols, including three Stingers (basically a 4.25" slide on a frame set for Officer's ACP magazines), a TRS HD, a TRS Comanche (basically a Commander albeit with some very important differences), and a Heavyweight Monolith in 9x19. Along the way I learned a few things, and it was an expensive education.

First, the five-inch guns were all excellent and all ran well as range toys. The TRS HD once broken-in was also great. When new, it had the habit of failing to fully return to battery. A few thousand rounds solved that. The 9x19 Mono is too much fun as it had no real perceived recoil and is amazingly accurate.

The shorter guns were a bit messy and the reason I had three Stingers was trying to get one that ran. Along the way, I learned that the Comanche and Stinger frames use Government model dimensions with a shorter dust cover and a shorter grip frame on the Stinger. It is mostly correct to say that a Baer Comanche frame is a Baer Premier II frame with the dust cover trimmed. The net result is that there is less slide travel in the Comanche than in the Colt Commander. The easy way to see that is to lock back the slide of a Commander and a Comanche and see how much of the disconnect tunnel is visible in each design. How that impacts reliability is the result of both tolerance stack and shooter input. For example, I tend to feed the first round in a magazine from slide lock by pulling back the slide -- the slingshot. That did not work on the TRS Comanche and on two of the Stingers due to the decreased slide travel not allowing the slide stop to cam down. The TRS Comanche was also a problematic feeding pistol with any magazine I tried. I contacted Baer, and he told me that his guns are not expected to use the slingshot method. He did agree to look at the TRS Comanche, had it for three weeks, and sent it back in the same condition. I then did a lot of digging and a lot of measuring.

The fix is to send the gun to John Harrison so he can machine the frame to provide the Commander amount of slide travel. Well the TRS Comanche was already hard chromed, so that was an expensive fix to a not inexpensive pistol. That gun got sold to a buddy who understood the issue and did not care.

One Stinger I sent to John had a lot of machining done to make it 100%, and it has been very reliable. It was sold to another buddy who wanted it more than I did. My other Stingers are in the safe, waiting for a decision on what to do with them. One thought is to fit a five-inch upper to the frame, making a CCO-Long.

Summary: Five-inch Baer pistols were good. Shorter guns, not so much. Caveat emptor.

I have also read one poster who said trimming the recoil spring plug to correct commander dimensions fixed his problem.

[JohnK]

I picked up a Les Baer Custom Carry in early December of 2013, have 1,424 rounds through it. I had 3 bobbles with it while using a specific Wilson 47d mag. I want to say it was close to 650 round mark... no problems since. I kicked it around back and forth for months (6 months or so), decided to go for it and I am glad I did. It lives on my person 12+ hours a day. That being said, I resolved prior to purchase that if I ever needed work done do it, for whatever reason, I wasn't going to send it back. I will have someone else do the work.

I am one of those people that would like to have a copy of whatever the primary is. That being said, I don't have one right now. I am working on having another one of my 1911s get some extensive upgrades to set it up similarly.