Police chief accidentally shoots himself -- for the second time

[TumblinDown]

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/01/20/indiana-police-chief-accidentally-shoots-self-at-gun-shop/4666967/

“I need to pay more attention,” Counceller said. “I know what the dangers are. It was pure carelessness on my part.”

The accident occurred when Counceller was putting his Glock into its holster after he removed it to compare it to a newer Glock model at the gun shop, Counceller said.

“It got tangled in my clothing,” Counceller said of his weapon. “I was wearing a sweatshirt and a fleece jacket. I felt (the gun) go in the holster and I pushed it, but it was tangled in the material which caused it to discharge. The bullet went into my leg and then into the floor.”

He managed to shoot himself once before, fifteen years ago. Hmmm.

[JodyH]

Yup... he's qualified to be the Chief.

[Jason F]

Mayor Leonard Urban said he also thought the police chief was kidding when he got the call saying he’d shot himself.

“It was just a little accident. Dave is an excellent marksman,” Urban said Monday. “Apparently the Glocks don’t have the trigger safety that they should have.”


Yep. Definitely the GLOCKs fault for a faulty safety. But that's the third or fourth question....

First question - why are you unholstering a loaded firearm in a showroom / gun store?? :confused:

[TheTrevor]

This story has everything.

* Subject is LE admin, a chief no less.

* Self-inflicted GSW due to ND.

* At a gun store, where (paging Tam!) he unlimbered his loaded smokewagon to see how it fit in the holster on offer.

* And did we mention it's his SECOND self-inflicted GSW due to ND?

You know what, though? I respect the fact that he owned up to what happened and clearly explained it without any excuse-making. There was no passive-voice construction along the lines of "I was reholstering and the gun went off", as if guns were fired by Odin's Invisible Finger on the regular.

[GardoneVT]

Complacency kills.

Another case of "I'm Professional Enough to Coon-Finger My Gun In Public"

[TCinVA]

First question - why are you unholstering a loaded firearm in a showroom / gun store?? :confused:

My time behind a gun counter was brief...but in that brief time I saw this happen over and over and over again. People would whip out their heater for the most absurd reasons.

[GardoneVT]

My time behind a gun counter was brief...but in that brief time I saw this happen over and over and over again. People would whip out their heater for the most absurd reasons.

And not just at the gun store , either.

I discovered the chief of the local college PD carries an LC9 off duty. Why? Because he whipped it out to show to my coworker.

[SecondsCount]

They should have training before they are allowed to carry a gun.


;)

[LSP552]

Simply amazing! Chief Executive and competent are sometime mutually exclusive.

Ken

[Tamara]

My time behind a gun counter was brief...but in that brief time I saw this happen over and over and over again. People would whip out their heater for the most absurd reasons.

The only gigs that get guns pointed at you more generally require parachute training. (In fairness, Cletus pointed them at me out of ignorance rather than outright malice.)

[TCinVA]

The only gigs that get guns pointed at you more generally require parachute training. (In fairness, Cletus pointed them at me out of ignorance rather than outright malice.)

My favorite from my 10 minutes behind a gun counter.

Dude walks in the front door at about deer season with a semi-auto Remington .30-06. Naturally he wants a scope. Naturally it was hanging in the back of his truck before he brought it in. We just see a dude walking in the front door with a rifle in his hands. Some of the guys helping out reflexively duck to avoid the imaginary laser beam the guy should be picturing coming out the end of his barrel. He notices them, and "reassures" us all by telling us that the gun isn't loaded.

So we convince him to let us put it in the rifle holder we usually use to mount scopes. He hands it over, and the owner of the store pulls the bolt back smartly...and a cartridge falls out. Then he does it again. And again. And keeps doing it until the bolt locks back and then he ejects the magazine and says "That's why we don't trust 'unloaded' guns. They're usually loaded."

[Tamara]

Sufficiently advanced ignorance is indistinguishable from malice. :o

[Drang]

Sufficiently advanced ignorance is indistinguishable from malice. :o

I shall start calling this "Tamara's Corollary to Clarke's Law."

[RoyGBiv]

I shall start calling this "Tamara's Corollary to Clarke's Law."
Hanlon's Razor

[Dagga Boy]

Wow, listen to y'all;). A couple things on this one.

First-congratualtions on a Chief who admitted it and how it happened.
Two-trigger entanglement on a Glock is frighteningly common. It is such an issue that most smart instructors have their students cut off the little plastic tensioners on light jackets as they are notorious for jumping into Glock triggers. I have always said that I treat Glocks like rattlesnakes and this is why. I know I have given a look down on more than one occasion when I felt the slightest bit of resistance and had a piece of sweatshirt or jacket in between the gun and holster (this is why you should live in places where you can shoot in a tucked in t-shirt year round:cool:). All this coming from a site that drops the word "gadget" as an instantaneous means to establish "I know Glocks" credibility, I'm a little surprised. If this wasn't an issue, a gadget wouldn't be necessary.
Third-Cop shops or dealing with cops at gun shops. Having them trying stuff with loaded guns is a pretty common thing. The local place has a full unloading drum at the counter, and the shops I worked at in college, and when I owned my own all had sand drums from unloading. The key was using them and that was what smart counter people did. Spending so much time in L/E oriented gun shops is why I am so twitchy about firearm status in stores-THEY ARE ALL LOADED as far as I'm concerned.

Essentially, I call these a "preventable AD". The guy really didn't violate any safety rules, but a little extra care in an administrative process could have prevented this. We just had a similar one here in Dallas resulting in the death of a young officer that was a Glock/holstering issue. Now with this Chief I look at him as a guy I wouldn't mind working for because he likes guns, and isn't a whiny liar (it just went off and I never touched it), but based on his luck I would drive myself to coffee and avoid meeting at the gun shop.

[SGT_Calle]

I can't help but think about the wooden gun Will Ferrel's character in "The Other Guys" is forced to carry after his desk pop.
"They were so convincing in their argument!"

[Don Gwinn]

My favorite from my 10 minutes behind a gun counter. . . . He hands it over, and the owner of the store pulls the bolt back smartly...and a cartridge falls out. Then he does it again. And again. And keeps doing it until the bolt locks back and then he ejects the magazine and says "That's why we don't trust 'unloaded' guns. They're usually loaded."
I'm trying to picture how loud that must have been in that room.


Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm trying to picture how loud that must have been in that room.


Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD


Very, very loud. Trust me.

[ST911]

I've found that the loudest part of assorted ND incidents over the years have been the moments of silence immediately afterward, accompanied by the looks on their faces.

[LittleLebowski]

Now with this Chief I look at him as a guy I wouldn't mind working for because he likes guns, and isn't a whiny liar (it just went off and I never touched it), but based on his luck I would drive myself to coffee and avoid meeting at the gun shop.

I think the Chief needs to host a HiTS class and participate in it :D

[Dagga Boy]

I think the Chief needs to host a HiTS class and participate in it :D

It's scary enough trying to you to host one....I don't want to push my luck:D.

[LittleLebowski]

You need a host in NoVA, holler.

[Tamara]

Third-Cop shops or dealing with cops at gun shops. Having them trying stuff with loaded guns is a pretty common thing.

There is virtually no good reason to be whipping a loaded heater out on my sales floor.

If the shop doesn't have a range then, yeah, a clearing barrel should be available in a corner for guns that specifically need working on. (If the shop does have a range, like the last one I worked at? "Here, Officer Jablonski, take these eyes and ears and go unholster and make clear on Lane Ten, then bring it back out here.")

If we're just checking holster fit? Leave the gat in the holster and let's try one of these blue guns I have here for that express purpose.

But the "cops handling loaded guns" thing is a contributor to loud noises in sally ports, locker rooms, and bathrooms across this fair nation. If I can cut down on those loud noises with some simple work-arounds, I'm gonna try 'em. Too much LE gun handling is of the familiarity-breeds-contempt variety.

[Tamara]

Speaking of gun handling in gun stores, there was the time the guy came off the range with the rental MP-5, complaining that it was "jamming" while standing there with the gun pointed at my midsection and his finger in the trigger guard.

No, I did not yell at him. Not while he had the gun in his hand. You don't want to startle that guy.

[Nephrology]

Speaking of gun handling in gun stores, there was the time the guy came off the range with the rental MP-5, complaining that it was "jamming" while standing there with the gun pointed at my midsection and his finger in the trigger guard.

No, I did not yell at him. Not while he had the gun in his hand. You don't want to startle that guy.

I got sweaty and angry just reading that.

[TumblinDown]

Too much LE gun handling is of the familiarity-breeds-contempt variety.

That could be said of any of us. I attempt a mental reset from time to time to sweep away some of the cobwebs of familiarity.

[Tamara]

That could be said of any of us.

True. I was just responding to a specific point. Still, it's worth noting that a potential danger of having that loaded gun on one's person all the time is forgetting that it's the next thing to having a rattlesnake in one's hip pocket. Familiarity breeds contempt if you have that thing around all the time.

(Incidentally, one of the things I like about CTC grips is that they can provide a vivid reminder of muzzle direction even during routine administrative handling...)

[LSP552]

Speaking of gun handling in gun stores, there was the time the guy came off the range with the rental MP-5, complaining that it was "jamming" while standing there with the gun pointed at my midsection and his finger in the trigger guard.

No, I did not yell at him. Not while he had the gun in his hand. You don't want to startle that guy.

It's all fun and games until someone gets zipped.

I spent 34 years as the po-po in one place or another. I've been a bullet launcher and bullet dodger, but the closest I've ever come to being killed was by an ND from another trooper during a Mardi Gras detail about 1986. It occurred on the last day of a week spent lurking in plainclothes looking for robbers and other folks praying on the tourists.

Back in the hotel off-duty, finished a beer in a buddies room and started back to mine when I stopped at another trooper's room. Lets call him B. I knocked looking for another free beer and B opened the door. B said he'd been looking for me because he dropped his gun and thought it might be damaged. I stepped in, stopped at the foot of the bed with a 2 1/2" 66 and a pile of cartridges sitting on it. B sits on the bed as I said I needed to recycle beer first. As I turned and stepped toward the bathroom, B launches a 125 gr. .357 in the place my chest was occupying a second and 1/2 step earlier.

Long story short, he had dropped the revolver and thought he might have damaged it. He unloaded and was dry firing to see if the cylinder would turn. It did, so he started to reload just as I knocked on the door. He closed the cylinder with 1 round that indexed perfectly. In his mind, the gun was still unloaded when he tried to kill me. The hell with those safety rules…….

Ken

[TumblinDown]

(Incidentally, one of the things I like about CTC grips is that they can provide a vivid reminder of muzzle direction even during routine administrative handling...)

Hey, I never thought of them that way! Thanks! : )

[TumblinDown]

...In his mind, the gun was still unloaded when he tried to kill me. The hell with those safety rules…….

I had a few other procedural rules burned into my brain at 12 years old. At 16, a kid around the block accidentally killed his own brother when he violated one of them while crossing a fence line with long guns. When something like that even gets as close as someone you knew, I think it changes you. And may that change never be undone!