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TumblinDown
01-12-2014, 04:19 PM
If you don't have anyone to assist and you work on public assigned-to-a-lane ranges, are those expensive head-mounted cameras worth it? Are there other simpler, less expensive options? Please share your experiences! TIA!

Drang
01-12-2014, 11:28 PM
I know very little about the subject, but... what's your price range?

Slavex
01-13-2014, 09:20 AM
I recently got a Tachyon X OPS camera they are around $150 and take great video, not as fancy as the GoPro, but if all you want is quick on/off and great video and sound, they work really well. Also lighter and smaller platform than the GoPro (in it's waterproof case).

justintime
01-13-2014, 09:34 AM
I have go pros for my racing stuff, but I find them too big and bulky for shooting. Something like a contour would be better

SGT_Calle
01-13-2014, 09:57 AM
I think the contour is great for this application, especially for the $100-ish prices starting out. Also, there are a lot of mounting options.

ST911
01-13-2014, 10:59 AM
For those using both external and POV video in training, which are you getting more out of, and how/why?

Slavex
01-13-2014, 11:41 AM
For me, ability to analyze my stage plans and spot errors in my shooting. And course I have to provide video for my sponsors so that works out.
and it's also really cool to broadcast to a Samsung tv with allshare turned on at a restaurant that insists on putting team sports up on their tv....

Shawn.L
01-13-2014, 04:26 PM
If you don't have anyone to assist and you work on public assigned-to-a-lane ranges, are those expensive head-mounted cameras worth it? Are there other simpler, less expensive options? Please share your experiences! TIA!

It seems like the replies are speaking to match videos but the OP is talking about being in a fixed position shooting lane.

If thats the case, and your looking to use video to review your technique, then what i like to do is use the front facing camera on my smart phone or tablet and place it on the bench or propped up so it can see me and what Im working on. Video downrange doesnt help me pick out places to improve my reload or help me check my grip like right under my hands looking up on a Bill Drill would.
I also like to use a Flip video device my wife got me a few years back when Im outside and can get full body video.

TumblinDown
01-13-2014, 09:22 PM
Thanks for all of the replies! Setting up a smartphone seems worth a try, but the front-facing camera typically has *significantly* less resolution that the rear-facing one (and I'm not even going to attempt using that). I'd guess the frames-per-second is lower too.

Slavex, that Trachyon looks tiny! That has to be a consideration too. Is SD sufficient versus HD, and perhaps even 60fps? While I'm stuck in a lane most of the time, I would like something I could use in less constraining environments too. For those with experience with the Contour, can you mount it to the bill of a cap or is something sturdier needed?

Slavex
01-14-2014, 02:15 AM
The Tachyone is small and light, and I got mine with their hat, so it's centered on the brim. Takes a bit of fiddling to figure out where it needs to aim, but once you sort that out it's good. I find the Contour too big, I didn't like running it.

justintime
01-15-2014, 11:23 AM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001TE1HJY/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?qid=1389802837&sr=8-6&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70

I've seen a guys Idpa videos that he shot with one of these. Not the worst if you just want to see if the pov thing is for you

Surf
01-15-2014, 01:47 PM
A few things about video as it is an integral part of my own personal training / practice. I first started using video as a training tool professionally around the 2000 time frame. We would video much of our training evolution's and just like in football we would review the film. We also relied on live feed and video at key locations set up downrange or in shoot houses to get a "downrange" view of the teams movements and analyze tactics. Of course video, sounds, smell etc, is common now in military shoothouses, but not so at that time. A few cameras set up on tripods or guys filming from catwalks.

I then started using video on the flat range around 2002 time frame. I was trying to "fix" a guy on the range and correct his technique. He insisted that he was not doing the very thing I was attempting to fix. I mean he downright believed himself and would have bet his entire pay check on it. I had one of my guys get the video camera out of the equipment truck and roll film. Once the guy saw the video, he immediately got it. He had just ignored me because he didn't think I was right. Instead of his I paycheck I settled for lunch. He took instruction much better after that. ;) From that day on I integrated that technique as a remediation tool. It is often much easier to explain, diagnose and fix a shooter when they can actually see what they are doing wrong. This was also a big light bulb moment for myself. Now with modern cell phones / devices, impromptu video is easy and right in our pocket.

Since that lesson on the range in 2002 and immediately following I determined that if video worked so well with students, why couldn't I apply that to myself? Works for analyzing golf swings, batting, etc, why not shooting? From then on video has been huge for my individual progress, in fact I attribute the use of video allowing for self remediation as the #1 thing that has boosted my own personal progress. Better results than any instruction, from any instructor, in any course that I have ever taken. Video is that good. Get different angles, slow things down, review and review, it is a great tool. Of course it helps if you know what your are looking at, or what to be looking for and how to fix those things, but even for a novice they can get a lot from self evaluation of video.

A few key points, as a person involved in the training session or even as an RSO or an instructor shadowing the scenario's you miss a lot of what happens. In fact I have been thoroughly convinced of seeing one thing, but upon review of the video my own lying eyes have failed me. Video shows a lot and I always say a couple things about video. 1) Video doesn't lie. 2) If a picture paints a thousand words, then video is a novel.

I will add that I am sure for competitive shooters POV video is great. In fact I have a couple of GoPro's with all the doodads, mounts, rail mount, etc to go with them. I find little value for my own needs with the POV and the GoPro's pretty much sit in a case.

TheTrevor
01-16-2014, 10:15 PM
IMHO, the only time it doesn't look ridiculous to shoot video using an iPad is when you're doing it for immediate feedback to a student. Being able to immediately play back video on a nice big screen can be incredibly useful, and the iPad Air records stabilized full HD (1080p) video.

(And Surf, if you decide you want to sell off one of your GoPro setups, drop me a PM.)

Surf
01-17-2014, 01:00 AM
IMHO, the only time it doesn't look ridiculous to shoot video using an iPad is when you're doing it for immediate feedback to a student. Being able to immediately play back video on a nice big screen can be incredibly useful, and the iPad Air records stabilized full HD (1080p) video.

(And Surf, if you decide you want to sell off one of your GoPro setups, drop me a PM.)Before I got out of the youtube thing I had a standard GoPro and had just picked up the Black edition to do some POV and some high speed video footage, just to add some variety to the video's. However to this day I never shot and edited a single video with my GoPro Black. Got all of the cool accessories, nice case for both cameras, but nada. Will keep the offer in mind. My kids are getting at a pretty active age and I might start using them to shoot dirt biking, ATV, paddle boarding and surfing footage. ;)

I still use video footage in teaching and for my own development, just don't use the POV thing.

dbateman
02-15-2014, 05:35 AM
If you don't have anyone to assist and you work on public assigned-to-a-lane ranges, are those expensive head-mounted cameras worth it? Are there other simpler, less expensive options? Please share your experiences! TIA!

I have no experience with the head mounted cameras and shooting however I have some experience using video as a training aid a few years back for sport (Muay Thai).

And it was very very helpful, it made it very easy to see what your mistakes where and where you could improve.

We did have video cameras but mostly used phones, I have been using my phone to film my shooting and dryfire lately.

It worked so well for me back then I am looking at getting myself a contour the Roam2 version is $200 over here and seems to be a pretty good camera.

David B.
02-15-2014, 07:48 AM
If you already have a mobile device such as a smart phone or iPad that has a camera built into it, then you can use that to record your shooting for analysis later on. I've enjoyed using my iPad for this purpose. The only problem is that it doesn't move with you and therefore you have to rely on a static stand when practicing or asking someone to hold it for you when you shoot a stage at a match.

God bless,
David

GJM
02-15-2014, 08:52 AM
Whenever I see slo-mo video of me shooting, I am amazed that I am doing silly/inefficient things I had no idea I was doing. For those with a new iPhone, check out the slo-mo record option.

rob_s
02-15-2014, 09:12 AM
For those using both external and POV video in training, which are you getting more out of, and how/why?

I don't get the POV thing as a training aid. I think for most its a special-snowflake/honey-boo-boo thing.

I try to get as much external video of myself at matches as possible and I generally watch it right then while what I was doing is fresh in my mind, and then again later when I'm home and refreshed, and then delete it.

I'm also good and sick of people eating up range time monkeying with their honey-boo-boo camera, and videoing other people without asking.

ToddG
02-15-2014, 09:25 AM
I don't get the POV thing as a training aid. I think for most its a special-snowflake/honey-boo-boo thing.

Really? I learn a lot by seeing what is going on right in front of me when (during shooting) I'm focused on sights and downrange and not my hands and arms. There are things I can only really learn by seeing video from the front, video from the side, and video from the shooting point of view.


I'm also good and sick of people eating up range time monkeying with their honey-boo-boo camera, and videoing other people without asking.

I think it depends. If someone is going to video they should be ready to go when it's their turn to shoot. But if it takes five seconds at the line to get the camera activated, that doesn't bother me.

Videoing other people is more complex. Generally I just ask a squad if anyone minds and if there is someone we find a way to compromise. I won't video you on purpose but if you decide you want to stand right in my camera's field of view during someone else's (or my) run instead of standing back fifteen feet, that's on you.

Don Gwinn
02-16-2014, 11:23 AM
I'm gonna try it with a Kindle Fire today. Not sure how that will work. The Kindle is more limited than the iPad in a lot of ways. But I'm just going to be standing in a stall shoot Dot Torture anyway.

octagon
04-18-2017, 08:28 PM
Bringing up an old thread. I am in the market for a video camera to use for shooting evaluation/training. I also would like to use the camera for general use and possibly mounting to my racecar. Primary purpose is shooting evaluation then general use. I would like HD with common memory card and charging port. Slow motion capability would also be nice.

SsevenN
04-20-2017, 12:06 PM
If you don't have anyone to assist and you work on public assigned-to-a-lane ranges, are those expensive head-mounted cameras worth it? Are there other simpler, less expensive options? Please share your experiences! TIA!

Get a cheap tripod and hit up best buy for a $10 Smart Phone to Tripod Adapter and use your phone!

octagon
04-20-2017, 01:01 PM
Just FYI this thread is an older one and the OP was from 2014. I added my post to it so as not to clutter up the board with a new post on the same topic. I can't really use the suggestions as my phone is already overtaxed,full memory and I don't have cell service(well poor service intermittently) for upload as an option.

Luke
04-20-2017, 01:33 PM
Just FYI this thread is an older one and the OP was from 2014. I added my post to it so as not to clutter up the board with a new post on the same topic. I can't really use the suggestions as my phone is already overtaxed,full memory and I don't have cell service(well poor service intermittently) for upload as an option.


I am a little disappointed you used the search function. Next time make a new thread.






I'd recomend go pro. There are enough mounts that you can do anything with it.

EricM
04-20-2017, 06:21 PM
I think the big benefit to using a phone (or tablet) is being able to review the video immediately, between drills, using apps such as Coach's Eye that let you do slow motion, go through frame-by-frame, draw shapes on top of the video, monitor the time a specific action takes, etc.

Personally I use a cheap older phone dedicated to this purpose. Doesn't need to be activated or even compatible with your carrier, just pull videos off over Wi-Fi or USB (or pop out the memory card and stick it in your computer). Some phones can use voice-activated recording so you don't have to fast-forward through yourself walking back to the shooting position after pressing record. I use this (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SHJWTFU) at the range to hold it...the tripod is (obviously) cheap and flimsy, I wouldn't trust it with anything more than an old phone in a shockproof case, but it gets the job done.

okie john
04-20-2017, 10:43 PM
Thanks for all of the replies! Setting up a smartphone seems worth a try, but the front-facing camera typically has *significantly* less resolution that the rear-facing one (and I'm not even going to attempt using that). I'd guess the frames-per-second is lower too.

Slavex, that Trachyon looks tiny! That has to be a consideration too. Is SD sufficient versus HD, and perhaps even 60fps? While I'm stuck in a lane most of the time, I would like something I could use in less constraining environments too. For those with experience with the Contour, can you mount it to the bill of a cap or is something sturdier needed?

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I shot some video with an iPhone 4, then slowed it way down in iMovie. Resolution was adequate for watching myself flinch like crazy in rapid fire strings. Being able to see what I was doing in slo-mo was hugely helpful.

I also like that the sound slows down, too. Gunshots sound like a roaring jet engine, and brass hitting the ground sounds like distant church bells.


Okie John