Glock Trigger - Aftermarket?

[Jaywalker]

After basically ignoring Glock for 30 years, I bought a G19/4 in October to see what the fuss was all about. I like a lot about it, but I really don't like the trigger. Basically, if I can improve the trigger without impacting its longevity, I'll keep it, but I have no desire to fire another round through it with the current trigger setup. Right now, it's OEM (except with an OEM 3.5 connector) with about a thousand dry-firings and 200 live rounds to smooth it. I saw no change to feel or measured trigger pull (it's about 6-1/4 pounds) from the change from the dot connector to the minus connector. The weight of pull isn't an issue - it's the "wall" I'd like to minimize. I read Todd's blog about the long-term Gen 4 test and don't want aftermarket parts in it.

Will something like Charlie Vanek's OEM kits: http://www.vanekcustom.com/8.html get me the break I want? Does "tuning" OEM parts make them less reliable somehow? This will be for concealed carry.

Since "I don't know what I don't know," please feel free to wander.

[jlw]

In full disclosure, I am affiliated with GlockTriggers.com (http://www.glocktriggers.com) although I was using their product before becoming formally affiliated.

Check out the Guardian trigger kit. It is all OEM parts that have been mirror polished. Ultimately, it really doesn't do anything running 10K rounds through your pistol won't do, but it is cheaper, and it is right now. I've shot a lot of pistols with the "25 cent trigger jobs" and found them lacking.

The Vogel and the Skimmer have modifications to parts. The Vogel will give you an overtravel adjustment and an option of spring weights to tune things, but that gets away from your desire for complete OEM parts. I have one in a G17 that has thousands upon thousands of rounds through it with no issues. I haven't shot the Skimmer kit.

[Chris Rhines]

I use the Vanek Classic Gen4 kit in both of my Production Glock 34s. They've been very reliable - I don't really keep a malfunction count, but it's been well under 1:2000 for both pistols. The Classic kit definitely gives more of a rolling break than the factory Glock trigger.

[GJM]

Assuming you don't have the time or inclination to do the 15,000 rounds of firing trigger job, I like the Vanek Classic and Glocktriggers.com Guardian. The Guardian is all OEM parts, so I lean towards it in a carry gun. A slightly reduced power striker spring can make either the Guardian or Vanek feels worlds better, depending upon your use for the pistol. My wife and I haven't experienced a lick of trouble in terms of reliability with the 4.5 striker spring, with a range of ammo, but we only use stock striker springs in primary carry guns out of caution.

[Jaywalker]

Both sound good. JLW, I had not heard of GlockTriggers, so thank you.

Chris, when you speak of "malfunctions," are you speaking of "parts breakage?"

GJM, I'd like to stay with the stock striker spring, I think.

[LOKNLOD]

If you're mostly interested in removing the "wall", and you already have the (-) connector, then I'd say a cheap, easy, all-OEM thing you might try is the NY1 olive trigger spring. It'll stiffen up the pull during the slack portion at the beginning of the trigger pull, making the wall a little less dramatic.

The best feeling trigger setup in a Glock I've used was a high-round-count polished OEM 3.5 with an NY1 with the spring removed. I don't fully trust it that way, but in that particular gun it was the closest I've felt to a "rolling" break in Glock trigger. I've done some experimentation with lighter coil springs for the NY1 in hopes of duplicating it while still having the spring in there, but haven't quite found the right spring (and it's been over a year since I was messing with it).

[LSP552]

I use Vanek's GSSF trigger kit with stock springs in my carry 3rd gen G17. It's the nicest trigger by far among my many Glocks.

Ken

[Chris Rhines]

Chris, when you speak of "malfunctions," are you speaking of "parts breakage?" Jaywalker,

I actually meant "stoppage." I've never, to the best of my recollection, had a malfunction or parts breakage in either of my G34s.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as these other guys, but:



Will something like ............ get me the break I want? Does "tuning" OEM parts make them less reliable somehow? This will be for concealed carry.

Since "I don't know what I don't know," please feel free to wander.

I don't see where you describe exactly what it is that you DO want. Like a 1911? Like DA revolver?

[Jaywalker]

LOKNLOD, I'd considered the NY1 as a cheap way to remove the wall, but when ToddG wrote that Hackathorn (?) called it the worst trigger he'd even felt, I abandoned the approach as something that probably wouldn't work for me.

Sotex, well, I didn't really want to specify what I wanted, given my inexperience with the Glock - "improve the trigger" is as close as i can get it while still mentioning that the wall annoys me. I will be changing either the trigger or the Glock, so I'm looking for advice. So far that's working with some good input.

I don't want to overstress this, but I'll mention that my bedside pistol is a Browning HP (had it 33 years) and my carry is a Kahr K9 (had it 15 years), so I seldom change pistols. My thinking is the G19/4 might replace both of them, but while I can go easily enough between the Browning and the Kahr, the G19 has really kittened up my Kahr triggerwork. (Now, of course, I've also learned that my HP's barrel might detonate while it's lying in the drawer, and we can't have that...)

[GJM]

All things considered, I think you buy a Glock despite the trigger as opposed to for the trigger. Most reliable/simplest move is probably to drop in a minus connector and shoot it, accepting the trigger for what it is, as opposed to investing time an money trying to make the Glock trigger into something it probably won't be. Of course it is even harder to follow one's own advice.

One more thing -- there is enough trigger variation between individual Glock pistols to give hope to finding one that is especially "good for a Glock."

[Jaywalker]

All things considered, I think you buy a Glock despite the trigger as opposed to for the trigger. Most reliable/simplest move is probably to drop in a minus connector and shoot it, accepting the trigger for what it is, as opposed to investing time an money trying to make the Glock trigger into something it probably won't be. Of course it is even harder to follow one's own advice.

One more thing -- there is enough trigger variation between individual Glock pistols to give hope to finding one that is especially "good for a Glock."
Thanks - it started out magnificently bad at nine or 10 pounds of creep and drag, and now is all the way down to just six pounds of minus connector and "I don't like it." That's progress, right? Seriously, this is my last shot at trying to make this work, and that's just because I value its compact and elegant engineering. If it doesn't work, I'll give someone else the benefit of my Blue Label purchase and buy an H&K.

[GJM]

Thanks - it started out magnificently bad at nine or 10 pounds of creep and drag, and now is all the way down to just six pounds of minus connector and "I don't like it." That's progress, right? Seriously, this is my last shot at trying to make this work, and that's just because I value its compact and elegant engineering. If it doesn't work, I'll give someone else the benefit of my Blue Label purchase and buy an H&K.

memo to Jaywalker -- if you are finicky about triggers, you might look somewhere else besides HK …..

Here is a gem, which I agree with, from Charlie Vanek, of Vanek Triggers. You don't need a good trigger in a Glock to shoot high prob targets with two hands -- the need for a good trigger comes in with low prob targets or one hand shooting.

[jon volk]

One more thing -- there is enough trigger variation between individual Glock pistols to give hope to finding one that is especially "good for a Glock."

Too true. I'm trying to get both my g17s to have the same trigger pull with a - connector and ny1 spring. One is glorious and smooth. The other is gritty, stacks like crazy and generally feels much harder. I've narrowed it down to the trigger bar and plan on ordering a bunch to try.

[littlejerry]

One more thing -- there is enough trigger variation between individual Glock pistols to give hope to finding one that is especially "good for a Glock."

This is very true.

I have 2 19s. One is a high round count Gen3 19 from 2008. The other is an early Gen 4 with a more modest round count.

The gen 3 with the NY1/- combo feels spectacular for a Glock. Smooth, rolling break.

The gen 4 feels like garbage with the same setup. Very heavy, lots of drag, and a huge wall at the end. My gen 4 works much better with just a - connector and stock trigger spring. Not quite as rolling but acceptable.

[GJM]

I've narrowed it down to the trigger bar and plan on ordering a bunch to try.

I am not the technical guy, but I think there is more impacting trigger quality than just the trigger bar. I had a Vanek trigger that wouldn't function in one Gen 3 17 lower, but worked great in multiple others. Spoke to Charlie Vanek, and he started going over all the things that impact the trigger, and it was a big list. I think Taran Tactical uses a metal pin, instead of stock Glock plastic, for the rear pin as part of their trigger kit.

[jon volk]

I've swapped slide assemblies between guns with no discernible change. That's why I'm suspect of the bar.

[JV_]

I think Taran Tactical uses a metal pin, instead of stock Glock plastic, for the rear pin as part of their trigger kit.
To avoid flex?

[GJM]

To avoid flex?

that is my assumption, but you know where making assumptions sometimes leads one.

On one Gen 3 17 lower I have, installing a GFA caused the OEM trigger to start malfunctioning. When I mentioned this to Charlie Vanek, he wasn't the least bit surprised, explained why, but the explanation went over my head. He also mentioned there are some imperfections in the molding of the Glock frame that can cause problems, and that he has had to modify in certain pistols.

[JBP55]

Ask Charlie Vanek if he will sell you a "tuned" trigger/trigger bar, "tuned" OEM - connector and a "tuned" safety plunger. Change ONLY these parts and you will have a smoother lighter trigger pull with the reliability of OEM parts.
The trigger pull will be approximately 1# less than when you purchased it. There are many ways to lighten the trigger pull if you decide to do so.

[BCL]

I am not the technical guy, but I think there is more impacting trigger quality than just the trigger bar. I had a Vanek trigger that wouldn't function in one Gen 3 17 lower, but worked great in multiple others. Spoke to Charlie Vanek, and he started going over all the things that impact the trigger, and it was a big list. I think Taran Tactical uses a metal pin, instead of stock Glock plastic, for the rear pin as part of their trigger kit.

It does, but the pin won't work in a Gen 4 without back straps. I'm a big fan of the TTI connectors, although I have no idea how they compare to the Vanek ones.

[LSP552]

All things considered, I think you buy a Glock despite the trigger as opposed to for the trigger. Most reliable/simplest move is probably to drop in a minus connector and shoot it, accepting the trigger for what it is, as opposed to investing time an money trying to make the Glock trigger into something it probably won't be.

So true. Glock triggers are what they are. Some are better than others but at then end of the day it's still a trigger that, FOR ME, is harder to shoot to excellence than many other platforms. The triggers are not why I own Glocks. All of my Glocks have a factory "-" connector and regular springs. One G17 has a Vanek GSSF kit with stock springs and it's better than my others, but not by much. There is enough variation among guns and parts that swapping things around can make a substantial difference.

Ken

[45dotACP]

I bought a G34...aside from sights and a GFA, it's the same as when I got it. That's not to say I didn't play of course. I tried the ghost rocket, found it was horrible for me. Tried Lonewolf, and realized that it was also horrible. Got a Scherer connector which I actually liked, tried the .25 cent polish and destroyed it.
Grumbling and grousing, I realized that I was only serving to make the trigger worse than what it was before, so I switched back to what I had before.
Glock is certainly not the gun you want if you are looking for a buttery smooth trigger with a crisp light break, but it does shoot. If you have the right grip, triggers don't really matter that much for two handed shooting anyways...

[Jaywalker]

It's an older thread, but I thought I'd bring some closure to it. I bought a GlockTriggers Guardian kit and I'm happy with the result.

I had to think about it awhile, though. There were a few knowledgeable folks her indicating that there wasn't much to be done with a Glock trigger, but it really was a choice between upgrading the trigger and selling the G19 - if selling/shipping pistols were easier, I'd probably have gone that route. As it was, I spoke to both Charlie Vanek and Jeff at GlockTriggers - I suspect both would have worked for me. I went with GlockTriggers because (1) he provides a 30-day return policy if unfired, and (2) he suggested a hybrid approach using the Gen3 trigger bar for my Gen4 G19.

The receiver parts alone dropped the trigger pull from 6-3/8# to 4-1/2# (measured from the middle of the trigger safety) and completely removed the trigger pull "wall" I so disliked. Installed, after take up, the pull was very consistent through break, a huge benefit for me, as I no longer trigger prep to the wall then start the pull to the break, but instead press all the way through to break.

In fact, I called Jeff after receiver installation to ask if he would expect trigger pressure to lighten with the polished slide parts, since at 4-1/2# it was already bordering on too light. He said it wouldn't - it would just be a bit smoother. He stressed all were factory parts, polished. After installation of the polished spring, spring cups, striker safety and spring, the pull went up to 4-3/4#. (That may have been a factor of a new spring, but was more likely me holding the trigger gauge in a slightly different location on the face of the trigger.) It was already pretty smooth and I didn't notice any marked improvement with the replacement slide parts installed.

I put 200 rounds through it today to test it and it worked fine - groups were measurably smaller than previously and there were no malfunctions. I did have one light strike on cheap MC ammunition that fired a second time, and the locking block pin worked its way out at around 175 rounds, probably due to the ham-handed armorer.

For me the trigger kit was worth it for a shootable pistol. The difference was night and day. For anyone who thinks this pull weight is too light, I suspect the NY Trigger springs will bring happiness right to your door.

[JBP55]

The trigger springs should last longer and have less chance of breaking with the enhanced Gen 4 trigger bar but I never had one break on a Gen 3 or Gen 4.

[JV_]

There are Gen3 trigger bars with that groove in the downward leg, and a larger spring hole.

[JBP55]

There are Gen3 trigger bars with that groove in the downward leg, and a larger spring hole.

Yes they are referred to as the Gen 4 and are installed in the newer Gen 3 pistols as well. People that refer to installing the Gen 3 trigger bar in a Gen 4 pistol are normally referring to the old style trigger bar.
There would be no reason for Jeff or anyone else to refer to the trigger bar as a Gen 3 if in fact he was using the newer Gen 4 type.

[Jaywalker]

This trigger bar does not have the bump on it that rides against the receiver.

[JV_]

Yes they are referred to as the Gen 4 and are installed in the newer Gen 3 pistols as well.I'm talking about trigger bars without the dimple that rides on the slide and with the spring groove of a Gen4.

Just like this one, Gen3 w/ New Spring Groove:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--9opvRIs_jc/UwfejQ2aowI/AAAAAAAACy4/CE29ZZF4qrk/s226/gen3%2520trigger.jpg

I don't know care how other people refer to them, I was only taking issue with your statement that you had to get a "Gen4" trigger bar to get the longer spring life - and that's not necessarily true.


and have less chance of breaking with the enhanced Gen 4 trigger bar

[JBP55]

I purchased triggers from Glocktriggers that had the old style Gen. 3 straight leg and a bump but they may have changed trigger bars.
Maybe the Op. will describe the trigger bar he has.

[Jaywalker]

As I mentioned above, typically my Gen4 G19 would receive a Gen4 trigger bar from GlockTriggers. Since Jeff suggested a hybrid approach for me to get rid of the hated "wall" in the trigger pull, he installed a Gen3 trigger bar, instead. He said there was a little drag that could be avoided using the Gen3 trigger bar not dragging against the side of the frame, but more importantly, without the bump/dimple, the trigger bar's striker safety cam would no longer have to ride up directly over the middle of the striker safety. The trigger bar can flex a little and ride up the safety a little to one side. (Don't blame Jeff if I got this explanation wrong, though.) The only difference I noticed between the Gen3 Guardian trigger bar and the OEM Gen4 trigger bar was the bump/dimple. That's not to say there weren't differences, just that I didn't notice them. Remember, this hybrid approach has to be ordered specially; without specifying it, you get the trigger bar suited to your gen pistol.

[Jaywalker]

Let me stress again, I want only OEM parts in a carry pistol. GlockTriggers provides only OEM parts, they say, though he hybridized mine for my particular needs.