This is what happens when TC plays with machineguns...

[TCinVA]

http://youtu.be/IjxfE7RJb5M

[LittleLebowski]

Such luscious locks.....

[TCinVA]

It was the hair that did it, really. Apparently it has the same effect on WWII submachineguns that it has on drunk chicks in Culpepper bars. They just can't control themselves.

[LHS]

I love the nonchalant look at the camera as the old Kraut burpgun goes all Skynet...

[jon volk]

Proof positive these dangerous assault weapons have a mind of their own.

[TCinVA]

I just watched it on double speed...it's like something out of the Benny Hill show. :D

[RoyGBiv]

FTF (Failure to Fuss). Needs more training.

Loved the grin. :cool:

[Chuck Whitlock]

It was the hair that did it, really. Apparently it has the same effect on WWII submachineguns that it has on drunk chicks in Culpepper bars. They just can't control themselves.

They runaway, too? :p

[JDM]

Awesome.

[TCinVA]

They runaway, too? :p

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.....BUUUUUUUUUuuuuurrrrrrr rnnnnnn!

[DocGKR]

Had that happen with a .45 Auto M3 Grease Gun one time--good fun...

[Chuck Whitlock]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo.....BUUUUUUUUUuuuuurrrrrrr rnnnnnn!

It was there.....I had to use it! :cool:

[Drang]

Had that happen with a .45 Auto M3 Grease Gun one time--good fun...

Pro tip: Don't drop your M3 Grease Gun.

[ACP230]

I had it happen with a PPSH with a full 72 round drum.
A bit more rodeo than I planned on attending.
Didn't shoot one again for years than tried a dealer's Post Sample.
It was more well-behaved and more fun.

[Suvorov]

So assuming you didn't have the chamber white hot or had a defective sear, what would cause a smg that fires from the open bolt to runaway?

[BWT]

So assuming you didn't have the chamber white hot or had a defective sear, what would cause a smg that fires from the open bolt to runaway?

Problem is, with open bolt, chamber heat really doesn't matter.

I'd guess sear or FCG issues.

[Suvorov]

Problem is, with open bolt, chamber heat really doesn't matter.

I'd guess sear or FCG issues.

That makes obvious sense. So a naughty sear?

[TCinVA]

So assuming you didn't have the chamber white hot or had a defective sear, what would cause a smg that fires from the open bolt to runaway?

The problem is that our commercial 9mm ammo here in the states is a bit like making love in a canoe.

The relatively weak 9mm stuff is enough to go bang and to cycle the bolt enough to eject the spent casing, but doesn't have enough oomph to push the bolt back far enough to engage the trigger. Since it fires from an open bolt, the party just continues without those pesky fire control bits getting in the way. This is a pretty common problem for open-bolt subguns...so if you're ever shooting one or are around someone shooting one, be prepared for the runaway.

Belt feds have been known to do it as well...but generally when they experience ammo issues they just stop working altogether rather than go runaway.

[LHS]

The problem is that our commercial 9mm ammo here in the states is a bit like making love in a canoe.

The relatively weak 9mm stuff is enough to go bang and to cycle the bolt enough to eject the spent casing, but doesn't have enough oomph to push the bolt back far enough to engage the trigger. Since it fires from an open bolt, the party just continues without those pesky fire control bits getting in the way. This is a pretty common problem for open-bolt subguns...so if you're ever shooting one or are around someone shooting one, be prepared for the runaway.

Belt feds have been known to do it as well...but generally when they experience ammo issues they just stop working altogether rather than go runaway.

That was also the impetus for the locking bolt handle upgrade on the later MP40s. The truppen often carried with the bolt closed and mag inserted, and it was not uncommon to have either inertia or a snag pull the bolt back far enough to strip a round and slam fire.

[Suvorov]

Thanks for the reply. Makes sense. My old company had a locker that had 3 or 4 M3s in it. Since I was signed for them I figured there would be no harm in bringing them with us to our next M9 qualification. I even donated 1000 rounds of WWB from my stash of 45 to the cause (that was back in2004 when ammo was still cheap$). Unfortunately my plans where thwarted when we discovered there were no magazines. Being this was Kalifornia, it wasn't easy for me to locate legal ones and once the BN S4 found out about them, they quickly vanished off my books. :(

[JMS]

Such luscious locks.....

I was just griping to some co-workers earlier today about how Mother Nature could at least have done me the solid of making my pattern-baldness symmetrical, instead of with a 12* list to port....

Pretty much HATE that guy.

[Chuck Haggard]

That was also the impetus for the locking bolt handle upgrade on the later MP40s. The truppen often carried with the bolt closed and mag inserted, and it was not uncommon to have either inertia or a snag pull the bolt back far enough to strip a round and slam fire.

I have read that simply jumping off of a truck was enough inertia for a guy to get a slam fire in such a situation.



I always like the Grease Gun as a range toy, our tankers had them as the rack guns for their tanks in the units I was in. I thought it funny and anachronistic that they eventually had M1s, the world's most advanced super tank, and carried Grease Guns in them in case they had to bail out.

[LHS]

I have read that simply jumping off of a truck was enough inertia for a guy to get a slam fire in such a situation.


I've read that a few places as well, but I've always wondered how it'd work. If you jumped off muzzle-down, the bolt would try to go forward, not backward. Maybe if you jumped out muzzle-up? Whatever the case, it was bad enough for the Germans to first publish field-expedient fixes in their Werhmacht publication (From the Front, For the Front) including some unit-armorer-level fixes like a leather catch, and then do a costly redesign of the bolt handle and retrofit it to existing guns.

http://www.mp40.nl/uploads/images/photos/hires900/mp40_051008_14.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/AlvarezPhoto/MP40BoltFwd1.png
(and yes, I know the second photo is an airsoft gun, but it still shows the different bolt handle)



I always like the Grease Gun as a range toy, our tankers had them as the rack guns for their tanks in the units I was in. I thought it funny and anachronistic that they eventually had M1s, the world's most advanced super tank, and carried Grease Guns in them in case they had to bail out.

I reckon anyone who had to bail out of an M1 was going to find just about any small arm less than ideal. Still, I have to admit I'd rather have an AKSU-74 than a grease gun...

[RoyGBiv]

^^ If you jump from some height while muzzle down and the bolt is "loose" (not held firmly in battery by the return spring), the bolt could back off enough so that when you hit the ground and stopped suddenly while the bolt was still traveling forward.... Kaboom.

perhaps?

[ToddG]

It took me three pages to dare a glance at this thread because based on the title I was quite sure it was just going to be a picture of Tim, um... expressing excitement... if you know what I mean.

[Chuck Haggard]

A tanker from my unit who fought from a M48 in Vietnam told me the Grease Gun was "good for cleaning grungies off of your tank". Apparently by hanging out of the hatch and shooting point blank with the stock collapsed.


Profiling troop behavior, and seeing lots of guys jump off of stuff like tracks, deuce and a halfs, five tons, etc., they often do so like these guys;
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/114043.jpg
http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads//2013/03/National-Archives-public-domain.jpg

So I could easily see a open bolt SMG bump firing on landing. Add to this that trigger finger and muzzle control were years away from being things that were trained in the shooting world and you can have a real problem.

[LHS]

A tanker from my unit who fought from a M48 in Vietnam told me the Grease Gun was "good for cleaning grungies off of your tank". Apparently by hanging out of the hatch and shooting point blank with the stock collapsed.


Profiling troop behavior, and seeing lots of guys jump off of stuff like tracks, deuce and a halfs, five tons, etc., they often do so like these guys;
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/114043.jpg
http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads//2013/03/National-Archives-public-domain.jpg

So I could easily see a open bolt SMG bump firing on landing. Add to this that trigger finger and muzzle control were years away from being things that were trained in the shooting world and you can have a real problem.

Yep, I could easily see that too. Especially if the arm was swinging down as the soldier landed, so the bolt starts going back from inertia, and then comes back into battery as the muzzle lowers... BAM. Slam-fire blue-on-blue.

[TCinVA]

It took me three pages to dare a glance at this thread because based on the title I was quite sure it was just going to be a picture of Tim, um... expressing excitement... if you know what I mean.

You only said I couldn't text you any more pics of my genitals. The restraining order said nothing about using the forum, counselor.

[LittleLebowski]

You only said I couldn't text you any more pics of my genitals. The restraining order said nothing about using the forum, counselor.

Texting Todd right now.......

[LittleLebowski]

I was just griping to some co-workers earlier today about how Mother Nature could at least have done me the solid of making my pattern-baldness symmetrical, instead of with a 12* list to port....

Pretty much HATE that guy.

Petty, irrational hate. We should hang out.

[PT Doc]

A tanker from my unit who fought from a M48 in Vietnam told me the Grease Gun was "good for cleaning grungies off of your tank". Apparently by hanging out of the hatch and shooting point blank with the stock collapsed.

My old man had a tank platoon in Vietnam and he said they found a sawed off 12ga with 00 buck was extremely effective in repelling boarders.

[LHS]

My old man had a tank platoon in Vietnam and he said they found a sawed off 12ga with 00 buck was extremely effective in repelling boarders.

Ze Germans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krummlauf) came up with a great idea for this as well.

[Chuck Haggard]

Ze Germans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krummlauf) came up with a great idea for this as well.

That works, but as described my PLT SGT used this TTP; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU28VypI-o4


Just substitute a loaders hatch for the trash can lid.

[LHS]

That works, but as describe my PLT SGT used this TTP; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU28VypI-o4


Just substitute a loaders hatch for the trash can lid.

OK, that's funny right there.

On a more serious note, the Germans had a prismatic optic to actually sight their fire, and discovered that the 90-degree bent barrel caused the bullets to fragment and come out like a little hail of shotshell pellets. Perfect for sweeping Sovietische Truppen off your Panzer.

[Chuck Haggard]

I imagine that one can spray one's own tank with ease and get a bunch of those 230gr ball rounds to ricochet all over the place.


I always thought the bent barrel things woulda worked way better with an SMG than a carbine.

[Suvorov]

By the time I got in (96-05), the M3s had been removed from service (other than the 3 mentioned that were apparently "forgotten") and the M9 was the standard tanker small arm. Each tank was also equipped with an M16/M4 that sat in a rack between the Commander and Loader. Its primary use was to give the LP/OP aka Loader, a little more protection when he was away from the tank. Due to its size it really would have been big and awkward and little use for dealing with crunchies climbing on your tank, an M4 may have been a little better but even though they were originally meant for combat vehicle crewmen, all of our Infantry guys got them long before we ever saw them in the tanks. If you had your tank shot out from under you, you were supposed to rely on the M9s, M16/M4 and whatever you could find to get back to friendly lines. A "dismount" kit was developed for the loaders M240 that would allow you to take some real firepower with you, but I never actually saw one either. As far as getting those crunchies off your tank, being a National Guard tanker by the time OIF kicked off, I never had to do it for real, but in theory we would use the M9s, M16/M4, or have our wingman tank "scratch our back" which meant that we would close up the hatches and dog house doors and have another tank spray us down with its coaxial machine gun. You always risked damage to your vision blocks but the damage a satchel charge or thermite grenade could do was more than some 7.62 ball could do so it was definitely the better option. A lot of my friends and colleagues, unimpressed with the M9s ability to mow down dismounts, resorted to picking up AK folders on the battlefield for use on crunchies. Honestly I don't think there were very many, if any instances of insurgents boarding M1s in combat so it was probably more an excuse to score an AK than a real need.

[LHS]

By the time I got in (96-05), the M3s had been removed from service (other than the 3 mentioned that were apparently "forgotten") and the M9 was the standard tanker small arm. Each tank was also equipped with an M16/M4 that sat in a rack between the Commander and Loader. Its primary use was to give the LP/OP aka Loader, a little more protection when he was away from the tank. Due to its size it really would have been big and awkward and little use for dealing with crunchies climbing on your tank, an M4 may have been a little better but even though they were originally meant for combat vehicle crewmen, all of our Infantry guys got them long before we ever saw them in the tanks. If you had your tank shot out from under you, you were supposed to rely on the M9s, M16/M4 and whatever you could find to get back to friendly lines. A "dismount" kit was developed for the loaders M240 that would allow you to take some real firepower with you, but I never actually saw one either. As far as getting those crunchies off your tank, being a National Guard tanker by the time OIF kicked off, I never had to do it for real, but in theory we would use the M9s, M16/M4, or have our wingman tank "scratch our back" which meant that we would close up the hatches and dog house doors and have another tank spray us down with its coaxial machine gun. You always risked damage to your vision blocks but the damage a satchel charge or thermite grenade could do was more than some 7.62 ball could do so it was definitely the better option. A lot of my friends and colleagues, unimpressed with the M9s ability to mow down dismounts, resorted to picking up AK folders on the battlefield for use on crunchies. Honestly I don't think there were very many, if any instances of insurgents boarding M1s in combat so it was probably more an excuse to score an AK than a real need.

"Crunchies". I have not heard this before, but I like it.

[Kyle Reese]

A lot of my friends and colleagues, unimpressed with the M9s ability to mow down dismounts, resorted to picking up AK folders on the battlefield for use on crunchies. Honestly I don't think there were very many, if any instances of insurgents boarding M1s in combat so it was probably more an excuse to score an AK than a real need.

That's reason enough in my book. :D

[EMC]

"Crunchies". I have not heard this before, but I like it.

See definition 6:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=crunchies

[JAD]

I had the opportunity to ask Col. Ancker, who knows a little about tanks and especially mech inf, what pdw he preferred. He said that in both conflicts he secured 16s with 240s, because getting out of the tank was the worst possible outcome, and if he had to get out he wanted as much stick as he could carry.

[Slavex]

see, and I thought "crunchies" meant the sound they'd make when the tank rolled over 'em

[Suvorov]

see, and I thought "crunchies" meant the sound they'd make when the tank rolled over 'em

It does, see definition #4. But it works for me with the other definitions as well (unless we are talking hot hippy chicks).

[LHS]

It does, see definition #4. But it works for me with the other definitions as well (unless we are talking hot hippy chicks).

Do they actually crunch? Or is it more of a 'splortch'?

[Slavex]

probably depends on if they are wearing cement bricks as body armor

(shamelessly stolen from another thread, props to the OP)

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1526879_479682948809835_29489794_n.jpg