Woman needed arm amputated after her handcuffs were too tight??

[BaiHu]

Some of you pros need to look at this-I don't get it and I'm guessing the MPGIW*:


The lawsuit claims the arrest caused compartment syndrome, which can damage muscles and nerves. When she was taken to the hospital, her arm had to be amputated above the elbow.
The mother of three children is now awaiting a prosthesis and the lawsuit asks for $75,000 in damages.

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/12/31/woman-suing-over-amputation-following-arrest/


MPGIW=media probably got it wrong.

[Chuck Haggard]

My job was sued by a guy who claimed that he got liver damage from being hit with OC.


Being sued does not have any relevance with what actually happened during an incident.

[BaiHu]

Oh, I agree, which is why I can't fathom how this happened and wondered if guys like you have ever heard of such a thing.

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[JV_]

If it's true, I'd be asking for way more than $75K.

[Chuck Haggard]

I have heard of documented wrist and/or nerve damage from claims of the cuffs being too tight. This is very often exacerbated by the person in cuffs being combative. Pulling and fighting against the cuffs isn't a good thing. I have never heard of a compartment syndrome case before though.

Went and read the story.

OK, could be, but not due to the cuffs, perhaps a minor break or hyperextension that happened during the arrest.

I got quite the education on compartment syndrome back when my "shin splints" were due to a chronic case of compartment syndrome. Most compartment syndrome is acute, and caused when you get into something like a car wreck. Then it's a very big deal.

[Tamara]

She was arrested by deputies on a warrant after missing a hearing on a charge that was reduced to disorderly conduct.

When deputies came to the home, she says they broke down her bathroom door and shocked her with a Taser. She also said deputies used arm bars and wrist locks before putting her in handcuffs, which she also claims were too tight.

Unlike a lot of people here, I have actually been arrested on a bench warrant before. Oddly, no tasers or arm bars or any of that stuff was required.

*knock knock*

"Hello?"

"Miss Keel?"

"Yes?"

"You're under arrest."

"You're kidding me."

"I'm afraid not... uh, you might want to go ahead and finish smoking that cigarette, it could be a little bit before you get another one."

"Okay... Aren't y'all going to handcuff me?"

"I don't think you really want to be handcuffed. It's uncomfortable."

"Well, okay. It's not going to make as good a story later, though, if I go to jail and don't even get handcuffed."

"We're not handcuffing you. Come on, let's go."

[Nephrology]

Unlike a lot of people here, I have actually been arrested on a bench warrant before. Oddly, no tasers or arm bars or any of that stuff was required.

*knock knock*

"Hello?"

"Miss Keel?"

"Yes?"

"You're under arrest."

"You're kidding me."

"I'm afraid not... uh, you might want to go ahead and finish smoking that cigarette, it could be a little bit before you get another one."

"Okay... Aren't y'all going to handcuff me?"

"I don't think you really want to be handcuffed. It's uncomfortable."

"Well, okay. It's not going to make as good a story later, though, if I go to jail and don't even get handcuffed."

"We're not handcuffing you. Come on, let's go."

Mind if I ask why..?

[Chuck Haggard]

Unlike a lot of people here, I have actually been arrested on a bench warrant before. Oddly, no tasers or arm bars or any of that stuff was required.

*knock knock*

"Hello?"

"Miss Keel?"

"Yes?"

"You're under arrest."

"You're kidding me."

"I'm afraid not... uh, you might want to go ahead and finish smoking that cigarette, it could be a little bit before you get another one."

"Okay... Aren't y'all going to handcuff me?"

"I don't think you really want to be handcuffed. It's uncomfortable."

"Well, okay. It's not going to make as good a story later, though, if I go to jail and don't even get handcuffed."

"We're not handcuffing you. Come on, let's go."


If that was my guys they would have been written up for a training and policy violation.

[Tamara]

Mind if I ask why..?

Found the driver's license and lost the traffic ticket.

Moved in the middle of the night to avoid roommate's psycho ex boyfriend. Never got "Please pay this ticket or we'll arrest you" letters because I didn't leave a forwarding address. It was the kind of stuff that makes a lot more sense when you're college-aged.

[YVK]

Theoretically possible, but I think it is a BS.

[Paul D]

She may have a case. Compartment syndrome occurs when there is an increase presssure within the fascia encased long muscles of the arms and legs. The increased pressure within these unyielding fascia coverings of the muscle cause compression injury to the blood vessels, muscles and nerves that can lead to tissue necrosis. Usually it is caused by a bone fracture but even non-penetrating traumas like too tight of a bandage dressing (ie handcuffs) can cause it. Acute cases of theses are medical emergencies and surgery is required to cut into the fascia casings of the muscle to relieve pressure. If you let it go too long, the extremity becomes gangrene and you have to amputate. Usually surgeons don't go around amputating limbs without trying to salvage it so it must have been bad. It is not a subjective thing like chronic pain; she lost an arm. Hospitals have been sued in the past for this and she was under their custody. I think they will get off cheap if they settle at or less than $75000. The lawyers and court costs is more than that.

[YVK]

Maybe.
For below the elbow amputation I expect an injury at the level of distal brachial artery/nerve, or unattended forearm bone fracture. Wrist level compression doesn't add up to me. We cath people through radial all the time, and compress that area quite tight, although not super tight. Ive seen a number of radial artery occlusions from excessive compression at the site, which is where the handcuffs would go, but I've not seen are single case of compartment from this.

[Paul D]

Maybe.
For below the elbow amputation I expect an injury at the level of distal brachial artery/nerve, or unattended forearm bone fracture. Wrist level compression doesn't add up to me. We cath people through radial all the time, and compress that area quite tight, although not super tight. Ive seen a number of radial artery occlusions from excessive compression at the site, which is where the handcuffs would go, but I've not seen are single case of compartment from this.

I agree with you. The handcuffs probably didn't do this. Maybe she fractured her arm. I do radial approach for angiography all the time in my practice. However, I do have the benefit of patient selection, ultrasound guidance if needed, a cooperative patient, sedation/pain meds and specialized compression devices with monitoring protocols in place to prevent complications. I doubt those officers had the same benefits. I'm sure they did everything right, but in the end it looks bad when you go into a place with all four extremities and come out with just 3; whether it's the county jail or an amusement park. It doesn't look like a case of he said/she said. It's more of the doctor said we have to take your arm.

[YVK]

ultrasound guidance if needed.

Cheater...




:D :D That was in jest, of course, I don't like spending more time on getting the access than I really have to, as any normal person.

[Paul D]

Haha! Can't be successful pointshooting all our lives. We have use the sights and the laser sometimes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Gadfly]

For some cops, cuff tightness is directly proportional to the difficulty of getting the cuffs on. Don't fight and the slip on easy. Fight and the go on hard.

Still they make us chant at every training session.... "Cuff. Check for tightness. Double Lock. Search the area accessible to the hands." We literally have to say it out load as we train. It does make it stick. We check for tightness by being able to slip a pinky finger between the cuff and wrist. If the pinky can wiggle, too loose. If the pinky won’t fit, too tight. If the pinky can slip in and not move, just right.

Still, the most damage I have ever seen on wrist comes from the person wiggling and wrestling around AFTER the cuff are applied and they are trying to slip them. When people are drunk or high or crazy or pissed they do strange things.

[Dagga Boy]

While I am sure there is WAY more to this story….:roll eyes:. Another "issue" is that many folks who get arrested have a litany of medical issues that most folks would have made a priority in life to deal with. For many folks I arrested it was a chance to actually get medical attention for a bunch of issues that had been on the back-burner over getting dope.

Additionally, a vast majority of the handcuff injuries I saw were self inflicted. When crooks tried to slip the cuffs, move them to the front, perform un-natural contorted movements to try to get the dope out of their underwear and under the back seat of the car, attempts to hide contraband, and of course just violently moving around. I only used hinged cuffs, so there was very little movement a person could do in them. Anytime the arrestee ended up in "pain" due to the cuffs was trying to perform one of the above listed activities. This is why documentation is so important in police reports, and why solid good habits (like the cuffs always going on the same way, and always double locking them) is smart along with very specific procedures for removal.

[Tamara]

Theoretically possible, but I think it is a BS.

What makes me want to agree with you is that she's only asking for 75k to go away. I know that a badly-enough fractured leg is worth more than that, and I came out of that accident able to wear the same numbers of shoes and gloves as before.

You'd think that any shar ^h^h^h^h lawyer worth his salt would go for at least six figures if this was the slam dunk the headline makes it out to be.

[Alaskapopo]

If that was my guys they would have been written up for a training and policy violation.

Same here everyone gets handcuffed. If their is a special reason like they have an injury or are pregnant then the cuffs can go up front but otherwise everyone gets treated the same.
Pat

[Tamara]

"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there." -L.P. Hartley

[Chuck Whitlock]

While I am sure there is WAY more to this story….:roll eyes:. Another "issue" is that many folks who get arrested have a litany of medical issues that most folks would have made a priority in life to deal with. For many folks I arrested it was a chance to actually get medical attention for a bunch of issues that had been on the back-burner over getting dope.

Yup. I think seeing both her medical history and criminal history would be revealing.


What makes me want to agree with you is that she's only asking for 75k to go away. I know that a badly-enough fractured leg is worth more than that, and I came out of that accident able to wear the same numbers of shoes and gloves as before.

You'd think that any shar ^h^h^h^h lawyer worth his salt would go for at least six figures if this was the slam dunk the headline makes it out to be.

+1.

[jlw]

Back before I made the switch from blue to brown, there was a person to whom my chief answered to who did not believe that everyone who was arrested needed to be cuffed. If we cuffed someone, we had to actually articulate why we felt the need to cuff them in our report. Simply their being under arrest was not enough. Thankfully, when that guy retired so did that policy and several others of a similar ilk.

While it is more common in PDs, it occasionally finds its way into SOs. Sometimes the electorate does funny things. I am reminded of a Sheriff in a neighboring state who had no experience, but when deputies in the previous administration shot a prominent citizen who attacked them with a knife, he went around stumping that he had been a Marine and would train his deputies on how to disarm people with knives. He lasted one term.

---

As nyeti said, lots of people only get medical care when they are in jail. Its rather common for someone to come in with a manageable condition that they have left untreated to the point that it is now serious.

As for this case, I wouldn't be shocked to find that she had some sort of preexisting condition that was a major factor.

[BLR]

What makes me want to agree with you is that she's only asking for 75k to go away. I know that a badly-enough fractured leg is worth more than that, and I came out of that accident able to wear the same numbers of shoes and gloves as before.

You'd think that any shar ^h^h^h^h lawyer worth his salt would go for at least six figures if this was the slam dunk the headline makes it out to be.

No kidding. I had to do a double take on the $ value too.

My arm's worth....a bit more to me.

[Chuck Haggard]

The rub will be if she actually asked for medical and they refused. Already a bunch of case law on that.

[Tamara]

While it is more common in PDs, it occasionally finds its way into SOs.

The deputies apparently felt I was unlikely to make a play for their revolvers or that they could take me if I did.

Officer survival training has made great strides in the intervening years, no doubt.

[SeriousStudent]

....... I am reminded of a Sheriff in a neighboring state who had no experience, but when deputies in the previous administration shot a prominent citizen who attacked them with a knife, he went around stumping that he had been a Marine and would train his deputies on how to disarm people with knives. He lasted one term.

......

I would have honestly paid money to watch that. I'm not talking $12 on pay per view or Netflix, either.

[jlw]

Who else is not surprised to read that Tam has taken a ride but is shocked to read that she smokes?

[JAD]

Neither thing surprises me but I'm not sure the smoking is current. There are things I would have been asked to stop smoking by the po-po if we were telling college stories...

[Slavex]

I dunno in my fantasies she smokes..... errrrrr ummm hey look a squirrel....

[Drang]

Who else is not surprised to read that Tam has taken a ride but is shocked to read that she smokes?
No one who reads her blog daily.

I dunno in my fantasies she smokes..... errrrrr ummm hey look a squirrel....

Someone posted a link in comments to said blog earlier today, to a photograph...

[Chuck Haggard]

Talked to a doc friend last night who has also heard of this case, he is a medical advisor to a couple of well known LE groups.

His thoughts are this isn't possible from handcuffs, as I suspected, but could be due to a minor fracture from the arm bar or wrestling around that caused swelling.

Could also be due to IV drug use.

Hard to say via internets.

I will throw out that resisting arrest will result in a use of force by the po-po almost 100% of the time. Not resisting will result in no force being used almost 100% of the time.

[ToddG]

I am reminded of a Sheriff in a neighboring state who had no experience, but when deputies in the previous administration shot a prominent citizen who attacked them with a knife, he went around stumping that he had been a Marine and would train his deputies on how to disarm people with knives.

Didn't he become disarmed after being shot? So win-win...

[Chuck Whitlock]

I will throw out that resisting arrest will result in a use of force by the po-po almost 100% of the time. Not resisting will result in no force being used almost 100% of the time.

Almost boggles the mind, doesn't it?

[TommyG]

What makes me want to agree with you is that she's only asking for 75k to go away. I know that a badly-enough fractured leg is worth more than that, and I came out of that accident able to wear the same numbers of shoes and gloves as before.

You'd think that any shar ^h^h^h^h lawyer worth his salt would go for at least six figures if this was the slam dunk the headline makes it out to be.

$75,000 or less was likely a choice to keep it out of Federal Court. Probably a something is better than nothing choice. The attorney probably doesn't believe in the case either or he would likely have alleged significantly higher damages.