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TR675
12-27-2013, 03:10 PM
I just got myself a well-used trade-in 870P, and have only the first clue about how to use it. Last week I took it apart, cleaned and lubed it (for what looks like the first time, ever). Never seen a dirtier gun in my life. Never could get some of the plastic out of the barrel...

I'm hitting the range tomorrow to wring it out and would appreciate some ideas for drills or standards to shoot for. The ones I've found online are not wonderful. If you know of any, please post them or a link here. Thanks!

Dropkick
12-27-2013, 03:39 PM
Aside from pure marksmanship, I'd say the two biggest concerns with shotguns are: how fast one can reload and how well one can hit a moving target. I'd imagine any drills worth it would cover either of those, or both.

jlw
12-27-2013, 03:49 PM
I just got myself a well-used trade-in 870P, and have only the first clue about how to use it. Last week I took it apart, cleaned and lubed it (for what looks like the first time, ever). Never seen a dirtier gun in my life. Never could get some of the plastic out of the barrel...

I'm hitting the range tomorrow to wring it out and would appreciate some ideas for drills or standards to shoot for. The ones I've found online are not wonderful. If you know of any, please post them or a link here. Thanks!

The single biggest thing to learn about shotguns is how to properly mount them so that you don't beat yourself apart when shooting one. Once that is done, they can be really fun to shoot.

DocGKR
12-27-2013, 05:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq74aiXn1b4

TR675
12-27-2013, 06:19 PM
Funny, after jlw posted that, first thing I did was google Rob Haught. Will be practicing that technique. My only real shotgun experience is sporting clays so tomorrow may be more familiarization than anything.

DocGKR
12-27-2013, 06:35 PM
HiTS (http://hardwiredtacticalshooting.com/) in Texas has great shotgun classes, as does Steve Fisher at Magpul and Scotty Reitz at ITTS.

SeriousStudent
12-27-2013, 06:40 PM
I do the LAPD D Platoon shotgun qualification course when working with an 870. It has the benefit of only requiring two slugs and eleven 00 Buck rounds, on a 25-yard range. The scoring system is set up for the 9-pellet loads, though. So you need to remember that when buying ammo.

TheRoland
12-27-2013, 06:51 PM
I do the LAPD D Platoon shotgun qualification course when working with an 870. It has the benefit of only requiring two slugs and eleven 00 Buck rounds, on a 25-yard range. The scoring system is set up for the 9-pellet loads, though. So you need to remember that when buying ammo.

A quick Google didn't reveal what this standard actually is, beyond the factoid that it has 6 strings. Do you have a link or a more detailed explanation?

Joseph B.
12-27-2013, 07:30 PM
If you have the ability/availability of a steel plate rack, 7, 10, 15, 20, 25 yards, pluse a timer. Its simple and helps with learning recoil, working the action, etc. Just keep speeding it up while staying 100% 1 for 1 on the steel.

Clays and birds are about the best for moving targets.

A lot of the low rd count pistol/rifle drills can be done with the shotty, just use steel or some kind of a hit/miss target that doesn't get destroyed on the first hit (I.e. stay away from paper and cardboard as much as you can, it gets messy).

Lester Polfus
12-27-2013, 07:35 PM
A quick Google didn't reveal what this standard actually is, beyond the factoid that it has 6 strings. Do you have a link or a more detailed explanation?

Ditto. More shotgun training and practice is on my Things To Do In 2014 list. Them D Platoon boys seem to know what they are doing...

jlw
12-27-2013, 07:48 PM
I do the LAPD D Platoon shotgun qualification course when working with an 870. It has the benefit of only requiring two slugs and eleven 00 Buck rounds, on a 25-yard range. The scoring system is set up for the 9-pellet loads, though. So you need to remember that when buying ammo.


A quick Google didn't reveal what this standard actually is, beyond the factoid that it has 6 strings. Do you have a link or a more detailed explanation?


Ditto. More shotgun training and practice is on my Things To Do In 2014 list. Them D Platoon boys seem to know what they are doing...

If only we had someone on the forum with ties to D Platoon who could tell us more about their shotgun stuff....

Lester Polfus
12-27-2013, 08:09 PM
If only we had someone on the forum with ties to D Platoon who could tell us more about their shotgun stuff....

yes... If only.... :cool:

TR675
12-27-2013, 11:17 PM
I've been hoping nyeti would chime in. HiTS is local so I'm watching for a shotgun course - the course calendar on the website doesn't seem to be working though...

SeriousStudent
12-28-2013, 12:06 AM
I lit the Bat Signal. Hopefully they see it over there at Gotham City.

SeriousStudent
12-29-2013, 04:24 PM
I got a call from the Bat Phone. Here's the drills, copied down from an old mimeo sheet (so you know it's authentic):

LAPD D Platoon Shotgun Qualification

Ammo: Requires two slug rounds, eleven 00 Buck rounds (9-pellet loads).

Scoring: Total possible points = 200. Divide the number of points by 2. Maximum possible score = 100 percent.

1st Phase: Two slugs at 25 yards. Start from low ready, fire 1 shot at center of mass in 2.5 seconds. Repeat. Hits in the 9 or 10 ring = 10 points. Any other hit on target equals 5 points. 20 points are possible for this phase.

2nd Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 15 yards. Fire 1 shot in 2 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. Any hit in the 9 or 10 ring equals 2 points. Any other hit on target equals 1 point. Approximately 30 points on this stage. Fifteen yards is an estimate with Remington 870.

3rd Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 10 yards. Fire 1 shot in 2 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. Approximately 33 points possible on this phase.

4th Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 7 yards. Fire 1 shot in 1.5 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. 36 points possible on this phase.

5th Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 5 yards. Fire 2 rounds in 2 seconds. This totals 18 pellets. 36 points possible on this phase.

6th Phase: Three 00 Buck rounds at 3 yards. Failure Drill. Start from an under arm assault position. Fire one pair center of mass, assume the shoulder-sighted stance and fire one head shot, in three seconds. Body shots scored as above, 36 points possible. Head shot is scored one point for each pellet which strikes the head. 45 possible points on this phase.

Total points possible for the course is approximately 200 divided by 2 = score in percentile.

Passing score = 90 percent, with all projectiles on the target.


I was asked to point out that this was what they were shooting in the 1980's. It's entirely possible there have made changes to this. I'm Alfred, not Batman, so I'm just passing along what I wrote down.

Also, HiTS tentatively have a shotgun class planned for this spring, but with no date carved in stone at this time. I'll be happy to take that class again, I got a lot out of it the last time. I'm also aching to try the 85-year-old Winchester Model 12 that Malamute convinced me to buy. It's all ready to go now, and runs like a champ.

Darryl mentioned that they are going to do some one-day classes that focus very heavily on marksmanship this spring. These would be for anyone, from a beginner to a very experienced shooter. They would be very focused on trigger work.

And the course calendar on their website will be updated soon, they are working on that. I do not have a definition of "soon" however, both of them stay really busy.

jlw
12-29-2013, 04:56 PM
This is the qualification course used in the GALEFI Shotgun Instructor course. I have not attended this course as I took a 40 hour course at GPSTC.



QUALIFICATION COURSE

Title: 25 Round Shotgun Qualification Course w/time limits
Date Written: March 2, 2009 Revised: March 31, 2012
Rounds: 28 (only 25 will be fired) Distance: 25, 15, 10, 7 and 5 Yards
Passing Score: 94% for firearms instructors, 80% for all others
Scoring: Slug – 4 points for each valid hit
00 Buck (8 or 9 pellet)* – ˝ point per valid hit


*If the agency only authorizes buckshot, the 18 rounds fired at the 10, 7 and 5 yard line stages will be buckshot. Slugs will always be fired from the 25 and 15 yard lines.

Fundamentals: This course of fire incorporates the fundamentals of shotgun operation and marksmanship including loading, putting the shotgun into operation, firing from different positions, tactical reloading (topping off/put back what you shoot), downloading and unloading. Additionally, officers will use good tactical fundamentals such as verbal commands, scanning, use of cover and movement.

Objectives: This course of fire was designed to better evaluate an officer’s ability to –

● Load the shotgun in a safe manner;
● Access the weapon from the vehicle storage rack (if applicable);
● Place the shotgun into operation;
● Effectively put rounds on target;
● Fire the shotgun from realistic shooting positions including on the move;
● Keep the shotgun in a “ready to fight” condition by continuously topping off the
● Engage threats from various angles while pivoting and on the move;
● Scan effectively for additional threats;
● Download and unload the shotgun in a safe manner.


Notes: For ease in scoring, it is recommended the course be fired with slug ammunition.

In this course of fire, the term “up” is used as the cue to fire. It should be noted that any cue such as “six” or “deadly threat” can be used as well. The command to fire should
be decided by the instructor based on their agency’s policy.



STAGE ONE – KNEELING FROM COVER 25 Yards 3 Rounds

Preparation: Begin with the shotgun in the condition it is normally transported in on the 30 yard line. This can be either unloaded or “transport condition” as the department’s policy dictates. If spare ammo is not positioned on the weapon, it will be positioned on the body where it can be easily accessed. Instructors are encouraged to have their officers demonstrate their ability to remove the weapon from the storage location in the vehicle if applicable. On the command “gun” or “threat”, the shooters will access their weapon, chamber a round and advance to the 25 yard line where they will cover the threat from the kneeling position using good cover and verbal commands.


On the command “UP”, the shooters will engage the target with 3 rounds, scan while covering the target then top off their magazines. On the command to “advance”, shooters will move to the 15 yard line covering their target. Finger off the trigger – Safety ON



STAGE TWO – OFF HAND 15 Yards 4 Rounds

At the 15 yard line, shooters will engage their targets with 4 rounds in 7 seconds from the standing position on the command “UP”. Shooters will scan for additional threats, cover
the target, top off magazine and move to the 10 yard line when the command “advance” is given. Finger off the trigger – Safety ON.



STAGE THREE – PIVOT & SHOOT 10 Yards 6 Rounds

At the 10 yard line, shooters will demonstrate their ability to engage a target to the side or rear. Instructor will demonstrate the SAFETY CIRCLE and how to keep the muzzle depressed inside it when pivoting. Have shooters face in the desired direction with muzzles fully depressed. On the command “UP”, shooters will (in order of sequence) –

LOOK to identify the threat, Bring the MUZZLE UP to the threat and ENGAGE with ONE round in 3 seconds.

Pivot to the LEFT – fire one round in 3 seconds. Repeat 1X (2 rounds).

Pivot to the RIGHT – fire one round in 3 seconds. Repeat 1X (2 rounds).

Pivot 180 degrees – fire one round 3 seconds. Repeat 1X (2 rounds).

Instructors should have shooters look and pivot BEFORE bringing the muzzle up on target. If you are running a crowded line or working with novice shooters, you can reduce the angle to 45 degrees so all muzzles remain in a safe direction.


STAGE FOUR – SHOOTING ON THE MOVE 10 to 7 Yds. 4 Rounds

Shooters should still be scanning from “low ready” on the 10 yard line. On the command “Advance and Engage” or “UP”, shooters will advance to the 7 yard line while firing two rounds. Once at the 7 yard line, shooters halt, scan and top off magazines. Repeat again for a total of 4 rounds. Instructors should encourage shooters NOT to stop when they shoot - keep the line moving.

Safety ON – Scan – Top off magazine if necessary


STAGE FIVE – CONTROLLED PAIRS w/ Movement 7 Yards

Shooters face threat with shotgun at the low ready position. On the command “UP”, shooters will engage with two rounds then move one step laterally (left or right) as directed in 5 seconds. Scan – cover threat. Repeat twice more for total of six rounds.

On the command “Advance to the Five”, shooters move forward to the 5 yard line.


STAGE SIX – HAMMER DRILL 5 Yards 2 Rounds

Position shooters facing the threat with weapon at “low ready”. On the command “UP”, shooters will fire two rounds in 3 seconds in rapid succession to center mass.


DEMONSTRATE ABILITY TO UNLOAD & DOWNLOAD THE SHOTGUN

The shotgun will have 3 rounds remaining (including one in the chamber). Shooter(s) will demonstrate ability to download to Transport Mode and then unload their shotgun.

If necessary, this evaluation may be conducted off the range with dummy rounds. In that case, only 25 rounds are required for the qualification course.

This skill set is part of the shotgun qualification and must be demonstrated.

SeriousStudent
12-29-2013, 05:12 PM
Thank you for posting that, Chief. I'll add that one to my list to try.

jlw
12-29-2013, 05:13 PM
Qualification course from GPSTC Shotgun Skills class (24 hours). This is not an instructor level class.

SHOTGUN QUALIFICATION COURSE


AMMUNITION: 5 ROUNDS REDUCED RECOIL SLUGS. 10 ROUNDS REDUCED RECOIL 8 PELLET "00" BUCKSHOT


TARGET: (3) SQT-A1's PER SHOOTER



STAGE 1: 25 YARD LINE - SHOOTER WILL ASSEMBLY AREA LOAD WITH 5 ROUNDS OF SLUGS. SHOOTER WILL MOVE TO COVER AS THE TARGET TURNS AND FIRE 1 ROUND ON ONE TARGET IN 4 SECONDS. REPEAT X 4.


STAGE 2: 25 YARD LINE - SHOOTER WILL COMBAT LOAD 5 ROUNDS OF "00" BUCKSHOT. THE SHOOTER WILL MOVE TO COVER AS THE TARGETS TURN AND FIRE 5 ROUNDS AT 2 TARGETS, WHICH FACE IN RANDOM ORDER FOR 10 SECONDS.


STAGE 3: 15 YARD LINE - SHOOTER WILL LOAD TO GUN BOX READY - THE SHOOTER WILL MOVE TO COVER AS THE TARGETS TURN AND SHOOT (4) FOUR ROUNDS OF "00" BUCKSHOT, THEN COMBAT LOAD AND FIRE ONE (1) ROUND OF "00" BUCKSHOT. A TOTAL OF FIVE (5) ROUNDS WILL BE FIRED ON TWO TARGETS, WHICH WILL FACE IN RANDOM ORDER, FOR A TOTAL OF TEN (10) SECONDS.


SCORING: SLUGS WILL BE SCORED 10 POINTS FOR "A" ZONE HITS AND 5 POINTS FOR HITS OUTSIDE THE "A" ZONE BUT STILL WITHIN THE SCORING AREA. TOTAL POSSIBLE POINTS FOR SLUGS WILL BE 50 POINTS.


"00" BUCKSHOT WILL BE SCORED AS 5 POINTS FOR EACH HIT WITHIN THE SCORING AREA OF THE TARGET. TOTAL. POSSIBLE BUCKSHOT SCORE OF 400 POINTS.


RAW SCORE: 450 POINTS TOTAL


MINIMUM QUALIFYING SCORE: 360 POINTS - 80%

jlw
12-29-2013, 05:26 PM
Here is a course that I wrote for an agency. The customer made it clear that they wanted a course for a very basic skill set. The issued shotguns were cylinder bore 870Ps with bead on a pedestal sights . Only 00 Buck was issued. There was no provision to carry extra ammo; thus, no combat loading was included in the course.

Just to make it personally interesting, I would stuff my rounds in my belt line and combat load every round for the course...

The agency has since adopted patrol rifles and keeps the shotguns loaded with less lethal rounds.

Ammunition: 12 Rounds 00 Buckshot
Target: SQT (2 Per shooter)
Number of Rounds: Primary - 6 (9 pellet 54 or 8 pellet 48)
Secondary – 6 (9 pellet 54 or 8 pellet 48)
Scoring: Body (Either “A” or “B” zone) = 1 point for each pellet

Total Points: 9 Pellet Ammo
-Number of pellets divided by 108 = %
-108 total pellets
-86 in target needed in designated targets for passing score

8 Pellet Ammo
-Number of pellets divided by 96 = %
-96 total pellets
-76 pellets needed in designated targets for passing score


Course of Fire:

15 Yard Line

The shooter will load the shotgun to the “gunbox-ready” condition. On the command to fire, the shooter will fire one round into the primary target and one round into the secondary target in eight seconds and go to a cover position. On the second command to fire, the shooter will fire one round into the primary target and one round into the secondary target in six seconds.

7 Yard Line

The shooter will load the shotgun to the “gunbox-ready” condition. On the command to fire, the shooter will fire one round into the primary target and one round into the secondary target in seven seconds and go to a cover position. On the second command to fire, the shooter will fire one round into the primary target and one round into the secondary target in five seconds.

7 Yard Line

The shooter will load the shotgun to the “gunbox-ready” condition. On the command to fire, the shooter will fire two rounds into the primary target and two rounds into the secondary target in 10 seconds.

jlw
12-29-2013, 05:30 PM
Thank you for posting that, Chief. I'll add that one to my list to try.


Roger that. I have not shot the course. If I can get my hands on the GPSTC Shotgun Instructor course of fire, I'll post it as well. If has slug shots at 50 yards. The stage starts with the shotgun loaded with 00 Buck, and the shooter has to do an ammo exchange to a slug for each shot. It is run as five strings. If memory serves, there were also slug shots at 25 yards and 00 Buck rounds at 15 and 7 yards.

jlw
12-29-2013, 05:43 PM
FBI Shotgun Course (http://chiefweems.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/fbi-shotgun-course.pdf)

The above link is to the course we shot at the FBI Firearms Instructor Course.

SeriousStudent
12-29-2013, 05:47 PM
I'd definitely be interested in the GPSTC Shotgun Instructor course of fire. I have an Aimpoint H-1 on my primary 870, and have it set for 50 yards with the Federal LEB127 DPRS slugs.

jlw
12-29-2013, 05:59 PM
I'd definitely be interested in the GPSTC Shotgun Instructor course of fire. I have an Aimpoint H-1 on my primary 870, and have it set for 50 yards with the Federal LEB127 DPRS slugs.

I emailed one of the instructors and asked for a copy of it. Somewhere I may have a printed copy of it, but that course was a couple of residences ago...

Lester Polfus
12-29-2013, 10:30 PM
Thanks very much!

shootist26
12-29-2013, 10:55 PM
I got a call from the Bat Phone. Here's the drills, copied down from an old mimeo sheet (so you know it's authentic):

LAPD D Platoon Shotgun Qualification

Ammo: Requires two slug rounds, eleven 00 Buck rounds (9-pellet loads).

Scoring: Total possible points = 200. Divide the number of points by 2. Maximum possible score = 100 percent.

1st Phase: Two slugs at 25 yards. Start from low ready, fire 1 shot at center of mass in 2.5 seconds. Repeat. Hits in the 9 or 10 ring = 10 points. Any other hit on target equals 5 points. 20 points are possible for this phase.

2nd Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 15 yards. Fire 1 shot in 2 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. Any hit in the 9 or 10 ring equals 2 points. Any other hit on target equals 1 point. Approximately 30 points on this stage. Fifteen yards is an estimate with Remington 870.

3rd Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 10 yards. Fire 1 shot in 2 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. Approximately 33 points possible on this phase.

4th Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 7 yards. Fire 1 shot in 1.5 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. 36 points possible on this phase.

5th Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 5 yards. Fire 2 rounds in 2 seconds. This totals 18 pellets. 36 points possible on this phase.

6th Phase: Three 00 Buck rounds at 3 yards. Failure Drill. Start from an under arm assault position. Fire one pair center of mass, assume the shoulder-sighted stance and fire one head shot, in three seconds. Body shots scored as above, 36 points possible. Head shot is scored one point for each pellet which strikes the head. 45 possible points on this phase.

Total points possible for the course is approximately 200 divided by 2 = score in percentile.

Passing score = 90 percent, with all projectiles on the target.

What target are we supposed to shoot this on?

Kevin B.
12-29-2013, 11:38 PM
I am not much of a shotgunner but I thought the FBI Shotgun course was a good CoF. I like to shoot it on an IALEFI-Q.

Dagga Boy
12-30-2013, 06:13 AM
What target are we supposed to shoot this on?

Back in the days it was written, a B27.

jlw
01-09-2014, 08:27 AM
GPSTC Shotgun Instructor standards:

SHOTGUN INSTRUCTOR
SHOTGUN QUALIFICATION COURSE

AMMUNITION: 10 ROUNDS REDUCED RECOIL SLUGS.
10 ROUNDS REDUCED RECOIL 8 PELLET "00" BUCKSHOT

II. TARGET: (3) SQT-A1's PER SHOOTER

STAGE 1: 50 YARD LINE - ASSEMBLY AREA LOAD WITH FIVE ROUNDS OF "00" BUCKSHOT IN THE SHOTGUN. ON COMMAND, THE SHOOTER WILL MOVE BEHIND COVER, PERFORM AN AMMO EXCHANGE DRILL (BUCKSHOT TO RIFLED SLUG). THE SHOOTER WILL HAVE SIX SECONDS TO FIRE ONE RIFLED SLUG ROUND. THIS PROCEDURE WILL BE CONDUCTED FIVE TIMES. ALL FIRING IS FROM THE SHOULDER.

STAGE 2: 25 YARD LINE - SHOOTER WILL ASSEMBLY AREA LOAD WITH 5 ROUNDS OF SLUGS. SHOOTER WILL MOVE TO COVER ON COMMAND AND FIRE 1 ROUND ON ONE TARGET IN 4 SECONDS FOR A TOTAL OF FIVE ROUNDS.

STAGE 3: 25 YARD LINE - SHOOTER WILL COMBAT LOAD 5 ROUNDS OF "00" BUCKSHOT. THE SHOOTER WILL MOVE TO COVER AS THE TARGETS TURN AND FIRE 5 ROUNDS AT 2 TARGETS, WHICH FACE IN RANDOM ORDER FOR 10 SECONDS.

STAGE 4: 15 YARD LINE - SHOOTER WILL LOAD TO GUN BOX READY - THE SHOOTER WILL MOVE TO COVER AS THE TARGETS TURN AND SHOOT (4) FOUR ROUNDS OF "0O" BUCKSHOT, THEN COMBAT LOAD AND FIRE ONE (1) ROUND OF "00" BUCKSHOT. A TOTAL OF FIVE (5) ROUNDS WILL BE FIRED ON TWO TARGETS, WHICH WILL FACE IN RANDOM ORDER, FOR A TOTAL OF TEN (10) SECONDS.

IV. SCORING: SLUGS WILL BE SCORED 10 POINTS FOR "A" ZONE HITS AND 5 POINTS FOR HITS OUTSIDE THE "A" ZONE BUT STILL WITHIN
THE SCORING AREA. TOTAL POSSIBLE POINTS FOR SLUGS WILL BE 100 POINTS.

"00" BUCKSHOT WILL BE SCORED AS 5 POINTS FOR EACH HIT WITHIN THE SCORING AREA OP THE TARGET. TOTAL POSSIBLE BUCKSHOT SCORE OF 400 POINTS.

RAW SCORE: 500 POINTS TOTAL - MINIMUM QUALIFYING SCORE: 400 POINTS - 80%

(Revised 050499)

SeriousStudent
01-09-2014, 08:36 PM
Thanks for the new post, Chief. I normally load my shotguns with the Federal 8-pellet loads, so this is a great addition for me.

Have a safe weekend.

167
01-14-2014, 11:56 PM
Here is the current NRA LE Shotgun Instructor qualification (at least it was current as of a couple years ago)

Total Rounds: 10 slugs
Target: NRA TQ-21
Required Score: All 10 slugs must hit the silhouette. Rounds partially breaking the edge of the silhouette do not count.

Stage One - 25 Yards

Load to Cruiser Safe with 1 rounds and go to Port Arms position.
On commande fire 1 rounds standing. Combat load 1 rounds, drop to a kneeling position and fire 1 round.
Time limie is 15 seconds.
After the above stage, have shooter load the shotgun to full capacity.


Stage Two - 15 Yards

From shoulder ready position.
On command fire 2 rounds standing and 1 round kneeling.
Time limit is 8 seconds.


Stage Three - 7 Yards

From ready position.
On command fire 3 rounds.
Time limit is 10 seconds.
From shoulder ready.
On command fire 1 round, move left or right and fire 1 round.
Time limit is 6 seconds.


A fairly easy qualfication. I also have a copy of an older NRA LE Shotgun Instructor qualification that is a little more difficult.

Total Rounds: 20 (4 slug, 16 00 Buckshot)
Target: NRA TQ-21
Required Score: All slugs and pellets must impact the silhouette. Slugs/pellets partically breaking the edge of the silhouette count as misses.

Stage One - 25 yards

Shooter from behind available cover at the Slung/Muzzle Down position is loaded to cruiser safe with 4 slugs.
All rounds fired from the standing position.
Use cover, fire 2 rounds strong side of cover.
Transfer shotgun to support shoulder and shife to opposite sife of cover.
Fire 2 rounds support side of cover.
Time limit is 25 seconds.



Stage Two - 15 Yards

From standing position fire 3 rounds.
Peform combat reload with 3 rounds.
Drop to a kneeling position and fire 3 rounds.
Time limit is 30 seconds.



Stage Three - 7 Yards

From ready, fire 2 rounds in 4 seconds.
From shoulder ready, fire 2 rounds in 3 seconds.
From safety circle facing right, pivot and fire 2 rounds in 4 seconds.
From safety cirlce facing left, pivot and fire 2 rounds in 4 seconds.
From safety cirlce facinf rear, pivot and fire 2 rounds in 5 seconds.



That COF also is harder, but still pretty easy. The time limits are pretty generous, as is typical. I have actually started shooting the NRA LE Patrol Rifle Instructor qualification course with the shotgun.

Total Rounds: 30
Target: NRA TQ-21
Required Score: All rounds must be on the silhouette. Rounds partially breaking or outside the scoring line are considered misses and the shooter is deducted 10 points per miss. Minimum score is 90%.

Stage One - 50 Yards (Slugs)

From standing, drop to a kneeling position and fire 3 rounds in 20 seconds.
From standing, drop to a prone position and fire 3 rounds in 20 seconds.



Stage Two -25 yards (Slugs)

Using cover, fire 3 rounds from the strong side shoulder, transition shoulders and fire 3 rounds from the support side of cover in 25 seconds.



Stage Three - 15 Yards

Fire 3 rounds standing, perform a combat reload while moving to a kneeling position and fire 3 rounds kneeling in 25 seconds.



Stage Four - 7 Yards

From a shoulder ready position, fire 3 rounds in 2 seconds.
From a shoulder ready position, fire 2 rounds center mass, 1 round to the head.
From safety circle facing right, pivot and fire 2 rounds in 3 seconds.
From safety circle facing left, pivot and fire 2 rounds in 3 seconds.
From safety circle facing rear, pivot and fire 2 rounds in 4 seconds.



Still not perfect, but harder. The close range time limits are pretty good if you are running a pump. You generally have to use a pretty tight shooting buckshot to stay inside the scoring line on the TQ-21 at 15 yards. I use Federal loads with the Flite Control wad, or Hornady loads with the Versatite wad.

SeriousStudent
01-15-2014, 12:35 AM
Thank you, 167. I will add those to my book.

167
01-16-2014, 12:18 AM
What we need is a shotgun skills test similar to Mike Seeklander's handgun skills test that has an open ended scoring system that can be used to track performance over time. Not just relatively simple pass/fail metrics.

SeriousStudent
01-16-2014, 01:03 AM
What we need is a shotgun skills test similar to Mike Seeklander's handgun skills test that has an open ended scoring system that can be used to track performance over time. Not just relatively simple pass/fail metrics.

I am absolutely no guru at all, and I've never slept in a Holiday Inn Express.

But something I have tried, when I get several passing scores in a row is switch to the other shoulder. It's honestly a useful thing for me to do, since I'm left-eye dominant and right-handed. Since the shotgun is a manipulation-intensive weapon (or it sure is for me, anyway), it helps me a lot. I've also had challenges with broken/sprained hands and ankles over the last year, so it's proven valuable in that respect as well. I bought a bunch of aluminum dummy rounds, and worked on loading and running the shotgun with dry practice sessions.

Just my two not very shiny cents. I'm certainly no expert on the shotgun or any other firearm. But it does help me a bit.

I am definitely appreciating all the input everyone has in this thread, thank you all very much.

Alaskapopo
01-18-2014, 04:53 AM
I am absolutely no guru at all, and I've never slept in a Holiday Inn Express.

But something I have tried, when I get several passing scores in a row is switch to the other shoulder. It's honestly a useful thing for me to do, since I'm left-eye dominant and right-handed. Since the shotgun is a manipulation-intensive weapon (or it sure is for me, anyway), it helps me a lot. I've also had challenges with broken/sprained hands and ankles over the last year, so it's proven valuable in that respect as well. I bought a bunch of aluminum dummy rounds, and worked on loading and running the shotgun with dry practice sessions.

Just my two not very shiny cents. I'm certainly no expert on the shotgun or any other firearm. But it does help me a bit.

I am definitely appreciating all the input everyone has in this thread, thank you all very much.
Shooting from the off side shoulder is a good skill to have in the tool box with any long gun.
Pat

jlw
01-18-2014, 10:41 AM
It's honestly a useful thing for me to do, since I'm left-eye dominant and right-handed. Since the shotgun is a manipulation-intensive weapon (or it sure is for me, anyway), it helps me a lot.



I have astigmatisms in both eyes, but the one in my dominant eye is worse. When I first got corrective lenses a little over a year ago, it took a while for my eyes to adjust, and my non-dominant eye tried to take over. It made shooting quite a challenge.

Two advantages to running the shotgun from your left shoulder would be having the sights in front of your dominant eye, and it would allow you to look directly into the ejection port without rolling the gun.

SeriousStudent
01-18-2014, 12:13 PM
Shooting from the off side shoulder is a good skill to have in the tool box with any long gun.
Pat

Yup, definitely agree. If I have to clear my house working outwards from the master bedroom, more than half of the corners require using the off-side shoulder. I checked that a couple of years ago, and remember it was more than half.

I'm not wanting to get this into a pistol/shotgun/carbine/Claymore mine debate for home defense, just agreeing on the applicability of the technique.

SeriousStudent
01-18-2014, 12:17 PM
I have astigmatisms in both eyes, but the one in my dominant eye is worse. When I first got corrective lenses a little over a year ago, it took a while for my eyes to adjust, and my non-dominant eye tried to take over. It made shooting quite a challenge.

Two advantages to running the shotgun from your left shoulder would be having the sights in front of your dominant eye, and it would allow you to look directly into the ejection port without rolling the gun.

Chief, I run an Aimpoint H-1 on my primary HD shotgun, and have found that helps me. I also have "experienced" eyes, with the corresponding astigmatism.

I've had to do some more practice with the Side Saddle when running the shotgun left-handed with an Aimpoint, but did not experience a lot of trouble. Since I had standardized on brass up, it was still pretty quick.

For a shotgun, anyway. ;)

We now return you to the discussion of shotgun standards, already in progress.

Alaskapopo
01-18-2014, 02:19 PM
One problem I see with shotgun quals on the police level anyway is we use paper targets even with buck shot which makes scoring a nightmare. I think that courses of fire using steel targets is far better for the shotgun.
Pat

167
01-18-2014, 10:07 PM
I think using a pass/fail standard as opposed to an actual score makes a lot of sense with the shotgun. For example, all rounds/pellets must hit inside this scoring zone to pass and there is not an actual score assigned.

Alaskapopo
01-18-2014, 10:17 PM
Yup, definitely agree. If I have to clear my house working outwards from the master bedroom, more than half of the corners require using the off-side shoulder. I checked that a couple of years ago, and remember it was more than half.

I'm not wanting to get this into a pistol/shotgun/carbine/Claymore mine debate for home defense, just agreeing on the applicability of the technique.
Claymore mines now that is something I had not thought about. Lol. Agreed no reason to debate what matters is your skill with the weapons mentioned and your comfort level with them. Stay safe.
pat

shootist26
02-01-2014, 01:55 PM
I shot the LAPD and FBI quals today on IDPA targets. With modern flight control buck, everything should be in the -0 zone easily