HK P30S or CZ P07 Duty

[helkaissy]

Dear Members,

I am buying a gun for the first time, I have little experience with gun selection and I live in a country where I cannot try out guns before I buy them and I have a limited choice between two gun models.

I have the option between the HK P30s (with manual safety) and the CZ P07 duty. Which do you recommend?

I've heard that the P30 trigger is too hard in DA and the reset is too long, but I have also heard that the CZ sometimes has some quality issues. I have held the CZ in my hand at a gun store abroad and I liked the way it feels and grips in my hand but I never handled the P30, I only saw it in reviews.

I am really lost in the selection here, also to note that in Egypt where I live. You are only allowed a permit to buy a gun almost once in life so its a big decision for me. The gun will be used primarily for personal defense and secondary for home defense.

Appreciate your help and feedback especially from those who own or have tried "one of" or both guns.

Thanks

Hussein

[BigT]

I think few would disagree that the P30 is the better gun. But you may find that parts spares and especially magazines for the CZ are much easier to come by in Egypt.For us in the third world that some important research to do before you buy.

[SGT_Calle]

Welcome to the forum!
My preference would be the HK but I have never held the CZ. Availability of parts and accessories in Egypt will be a deciding factor I imagine.
Good luck on your search, I'm sure many more experienced folks will chime in here.


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[Guinnessman]

Welcome to the forum. From purely an operational standpoint, I would go HK all day long. The trigger will smooth out with some shooting and dry fire. The parts and magazine availability might be the deciding factor for you. Good luck in your search and make sure you stick around the forum.

[helkaissy]

Thanks guys for the information
I now have also the chance for a Beretta Px4 storm as well
So the choice between the beretta, HK and CZ
Let me know what you think
Thanks

[DanH]

I believe the HK is definitely the better of the 3 guns you listed, in fact there are few that can approach HK quality. You definitely want to check into how easy it is to get parts and accessories, however.

Welcome to the forum :)

[will_1400]

The P30 is a very fine weapon, but based on your location the CZ may be a better choice due to a potential greater parts availability. If I remember right, several militaries and police forces in that area use some sort of CZ-75 variant.

I'd shy away from the PX4; they have a reputation for locking up so hard as to need a mallet to fix the issue. There are reports that this may no longer be the case, but the rotating barrel design has never been particularly successful in a historical context.

[ToddG]

I'll just add my echo to the choir:

The P30S is hands down the best gun. If you don't like the DA trigger you can avoid it altogether by carrying the gun cocked and locked (safety on, hammer back).

The CZ, however, might have a huge advantage in terms of spare parts availability, magazine and accessory availability, etc. Then it comes down to whether you'd rather have an HK that will probably never break but will be difficult to manage if it does versus a CZ that may be more prone to breakage/wear but will be easier to keep running if something does go wrong.

I remain unconvinced of the PX4's suitability although at least one member here has had excellent results with his.

[LittleLebowski]

Look at spare magazine availability in your area for your choices.

Also, I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that we'd like to hear more about about gun ownership in Egypt.

[SGT_Calle]

Also, I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that we'd like to hear more about about gun ownership in Egypt.

Indeed!

[Nephrology]

Indeed!

Definitely! Also, I'll echo the hive-mind's opinion - the HK is definitely the gun to choose between the 3.

[SGT_Calle]

...also to note that in Egypt where I live. You are only allowed a permit to buy a gun almost once in life so its a big decision for me.

This phrase would make the decision easy for me, HK all the way. Heck, if you ever need parts I'm sure some friendly forum members could send something your way, lol. (assuming it's not illegal) Just don't be a stranger around here, this is a great community.

[Kobalt60]

They both have great ergonomics. The CZ is going to feel easier to shoot because it only has half a slide. It's also much more common in your part of the world. You might never see another P30 again. IMO, no matter how great a pistol's reputation is, you can't take for granted that YOURS won't ever need a replacement part or magazine.


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[Archimagirus]

I have owned both pistols and they are both great shooters, very accurate guns. With the omega trigger in the P-07, the interoperability of parts with older CZ's isn't there for a number of its components. Spare part wise, you might find yourself in the same situation with either gun if something breaks. I too would look at magazine availabilty as a deciding factor. There were also some issues with the P-07 where the plastic was separating from metal frame rails, but I have not looked at a recent production examples to see of this issue is still prevalent. It was pretty common over at the CZ Forum for quite a while. As good as my P-07 was, that issue was the final straw for me with the platform. I bought a P30 a couple of months ago and I am currently having a hard time justifying owning the other pistols I do, it is that good in my opinion. There is something to be said, at least at the prices here in states to being able to get two guns (almost) for the price of one. If you have any other specific questions about either let me know.

[Saym16]

based on "once in a life " purchase. I would get a P30S. CZ is a good gun too, but not for once in a lifetime IMO.

[Gary1911A1]

For a once in a lifetime purchase and living in Egypt where you may not be able to get spare parts at all in the future given an uncertain political environment I'd get the HK P30 too and stock up on replacement parts and magazines.

[JHC]

OP - if you are considering that CZ and have not seen it yet, you might want to search the net to find Mike Panone's detailed review of it. I thought it was one of the most informative and thorough gun reviews I've read, replete with video of him running drills with it. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

[benq]

I really like the smooth DA trigger pull of the P-07 and the break is fairly crisp. Alternative sights are hard to come by. CZ just came out with what looks to be a more refined version for 2014 with improvements taken from the P-09 its big brother. I've shot both CZ and HK but the P-07 won me over; grip, smooth trigger pull, crisp break, perceived recoil and lastly price.

Good Luck.

[GJM]

OP - if you are considering that CZ and have not seen it yet, you might want to search the net to find Mike Panone's detailed review of it. I thought it was one of the most informative and thorough gun reviews I've read, replete with video of him running drills with it. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

this is what Mike said just this week:

Over 12,000 rounds and still haven't broken a single part and can hit an 8" plate at 50 if I do my part. I have another 5000 rds. through a P09 and it has performed flawlessly as well. They are both great guns!

[Greg Bell]

If you are truly picking a gun that has to last a lifetime the HK is probably the best choice...anywhere.

[usvi]

If you are truly picking a gun that has to last a lifetime the HK is probably the best choice...anywhere.

I live in an area that dispenses permits with an eyedropper and chose HK. I went with a P2000 but agree with HK being the "if you got to have just one" choice 100%.

[BigT]

If you are truly picking a gun that has to last a lifetime the HK is probably the best choice...anywhere.


Until your trigger spring breaks. And Germany can't send you one and the US dealers won't send you one.

I don't know if HK has a civilian rep in Egypt if not if you have one you are going to have a very hard time getting spares.

[Greg Bell]

I agree. But I get the sneaking suspicion that that getting spares is going to involve some serious work either way. And I presume H&Ks are available there since he is looking to buy one. You might as well get the gun that will probably never need one.

[UNK]

OP - if you are considering that CZ and have not seen it yet, you might want to search the net to find Mike Panone's detailed review of it. I thought it was one of the most informative and thorough gun reviews I've read, replete with video of him running drills with it. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

Awesome review....here the link http://www.defensereview.com/cz-p-07-duty-combattactical-pistol-the-best-pistol-nobody-knows-about/

[JHC]

Awesome review....here the link http://www.defensereview.com/cz-p-07-duty-combattactical-pistol-the-best-pistol-nobody-knows-about/

Here is John McPhee's review of the P-09. I wonder if the OP might not have been better off with a CZ-75B in the end for parts/support etc. http://shootersmagazine.com/sheriff-baghdad-cz-p-09/

[BigT]

With the recent Egyptian adoption of the P07 I think spares will be obtainable with a little effort.

Also the Czechs seem pretty happy to supply almost anyone

[UNK]

Here is John McPhee's review of the P-09. I wonder if the OP might not have been better off with a CZ-75B in the end for parts/support etc. http://shootersmagazine.com/sheriff-baghdad-cz-p-09/
Another good article. Maybe one of the new CZ Polymer's should be the test pistol for 2014.

[rilumva]

Another good article. Maybe one of the new CZ Polymer's should be the test pistol for 2014.

YES, P07 or P09 for 2014, great idea. Do it Todd, do it, would be really interesting to see how they would perform 50k+rds.

As for the OP, I too would go with either the CZ og the HK, stay away from that PX4, and whatever you decide on, get a good holster for it.

[JHC]

With the recent Egyptian adoption of the P07 I think spares will be obtainable with a little effort.

Also the Czechs seem pretty happy to supply almost anyone

Well dang! I guess so! :D

[ToddG]

YES, P07 or P09 for 2014, great idea. Do it Todd, do it, would be really interesting to see how they would perform 50k+rds.

I don't think the folks at CZ are big fans of mine. Something about the time I very publicly compared their earlier models to Ford Pintos...

[gtmtnbiker98]

I don't think the folks at CZ are big fans of mine. Something about the time I very publicly compared their earlier models to Ford Pintos...Oh, how I remember that and then there's the 'Zed' comment.

[YVK]

I don't think the folks at CZ are big fans of mine. Something about the time I very publicly compared their earlier models to Ford Pintos...

You didn't show much love to 1911s until recently either...

I know you're committed to a Burton gun next year, but I think a Zed test might prove very interesting.

[UNK]

I don't think the folks at CZ are big fans of mine. Something about the time I very publicly compared their earlier models to Ford Pintos...

Times they are a changing...Cant be any worse than the current Glock or M&P fiascos. Plus their custom shop turns out some nice work. I just handled one of their SP01's from the custom shop. Very nice. It should be one of the newer SP models I would think.

[ToddG]

Times they are a changing...Cant be any worse than the current Glock or M&P fiascos. Plus their custom shop turns out some nice work. I just handled one of their SP01's from the custom shop. Very nice. It shoud be one of the newer SP models I would think.

I've said before that I'd seriously consider one if they want to sponsor it...

[UNK]

I've said before that I'd seriously consider one if they want to sponsor it...

What does sponsor mean? What would they need to provide? A pistol only? Provide the details and I would be happy to send them an email next week.

[ToddG]

What does sponsor mean? What would they need to provide? A pistol only? Provide the details and I would be happy to send them an email next week.

Brian -- PM inbound.

[hufnagel]

I can only add...
I am an unabashed HK fanboi. I love my P30 twins (and my other HK products as well.) That being said, if I lived in a locale where parts availability could be... problematic... I would have to give that significant weight to my choice of tools. There's no doubt that HK's are fantastic in reliability. That being said anything can (and will!) break, and being able to fix it has to carry weight in any decision.

Now don't forget to talk more about Egyptian gun ownership! Inquiring minds want to know.

[Magic_Salad0892]

I've said before that I'd seriously consider one if they want to sponsor it...

I would absolutely love to see this happen.

[GJM]

Hard part is deciding which to test 75, SP01, P01, P07 or P09. Maybe test them all!

I had a conversation with our new GM, Willshoot, and he is digging his new Czech-nology. Reloads under 1.0, and other good stuff.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

A CZ test would be really, really interesting.

[JeffJ]

The thing about the steel CZs (I don't think the same holds true for polymer but I'm not sure) is that they aren't really "out of the box" guns. The shadow line kind of addresses this but they still really benefit from some 'smithing. I liken them to picking up a 1911 for a reasonable price and then sending it to "name your favorite 1911 guy" and spending at least the cost of the pistol if not more getting set up how you want it. Of course you can order a CZ from CZCustom, CGW, or Mink but that's just getting a package deal the guns still come pretty rough from the factory.

I just picked up a 75BD, I have plans for it to be my new everything gun - carry and competition. The pistol is about $500, springs and a milled hammer from CGW is about $170, new sights are about $100 - puts me at about $800 doing the work myself. It's replacing a Glock 34 with aftermarket sights and a KKM barrel so I'd consider them about the same cost wise. I've probably got a little less in the CZ.

So really, I think more relevant test would be to get a gun that's been worked over by someone.

[littlejerry]

The thing about the steel CZs (I don't think the same holds true for polymer but I'm not sure) is that they aren't really "out of the box" guns. The shadow line kind of addresses this but they still really benefit from some 'smithing. I liken them to picking up a 1911 for a reasonable price and then sending it to "name your favorite 1911 guy" and spending at least the cost of the pistol if not more getting set up how you want it. Of course you can order a CZ from CZCustom, CGW, or Mink but that's just getting a package deal the guns still come pretty rough from the factory.

I just picked up a 75BD, I have plans for it to be my new everything gun - carry and competition. The pistol is about $500, springs and a milled hammer from CGW is about $170, new sights are about $100 - puts me at about $800 doing the work myself. It's replacing a Glock 34 with aftermarket sights and a KKM barrel so I'd consider them about the same cost wise. I've probably got a little less in the CZ.

So really, I think more relevant test would be to get a gun that's been worked over by someone.

I would very much like to hear any thoughts on your experience. I've been considering doing the exact same thing( 75bd with home installed CGW parts) for a little variety. Standard 75b/bd guns are surprisingly cheap.

[JeffJ]

I haven't started yet, but I'll do a write up as I go forward on it. Really, I could have just bought a shadow line gun and done some polishing for around the same money, but I really wanted a decocker. I also wanted to do the work myself just because I like doing stuff like that.

[Nephrology]

A CZ test would be really, really interesting.

Agreed. They are pistols that have always interested me.

[Matt O]

I would very much like to hear any thoughts on your experience. I've been considering doing the exact same thing( 75bd with home installed CGW parts) for a little variety. Standard 75b/bd guns are surprisingly cheap.

CGW parts in a standard CZ really does transform the pistol (along with some judicious polishing). I purchased a stock SP-01 several months ago, installed some CGW parts/springs and then polished the hell out of the trigger bar and the firing pin block. Those simple mods, along with an extraordinary amount of dry fire over the last couple months have turned out a very smooth trigger.

The key CGW parts to replace on a stock CZ (imo) are:
- Hammer

* Provides better hook angle for reduced camming in single action

* Can choose between CGW's own hammer or a slimmed shadow hammer in order to stay production legal
- Adjustable sear

* Polished sear that allows you to easily adjust the sear to the safety
- Short reset system

* Includes new re-angled firing pin lifter arm, extended firing pin, reduced fp spring, 13# hammer spring, reduced fpb spring & solid fp retaining pin
- Type 2 disconnector
- Reduced trigger return spring
- Floating trigger pin
- Hardened hammer pins
(If you're getting a decocker CZ, I've heard picking up or making a sear cage slave pin significantly reduces gunsmithing related stress levels :))

That should run about or a little above $200 and with some polishing, should yield about a smooth 7-8#ish DA and 3-4# SA pull according to my ultra-scientific mental trigger gauge.

Wear parts to stock up on seem to be trigger return springs, slide stops and extractors. My trigger return spring gave up the ghost last night mid dry fire practice session which was kind of annoying. CZ's, in my admittedly limited experience so far, seem to have more issues with parts breakage than Sigs and obviously glocks, but the differences in trigger quality and shootability for me are absolutely night and day. A well-set up CZ is an absolute joy to shoot.

[Kyle Reese]

OP hasn't chimed in on this thread in a while. Hope he's well.

[GJM]

First live fire range session with the Czech-nology today. Shot multiple pistols including a pair of Mink'd 75 SP01 Shadow, and a P01 carry gun.

Started at 25 yards. These CZ pistols, whether by their inherent mechanical accuracy or user interface, allowed me to shoot multiple groups at 25 yards, with each pistol that were some of the best groups I have shot with any pistol, ever. Best part, is I was just completely casual, shooting at a much faster than "300" pace. Remember Bill Riehl's thread on the 3x5 at 25, well I want a CZ, as I was later keeping them all in the IPSC upper A "credit card" shooting just WWB 115 ball, and the "junky" Georgia Arms canned heat. Learning the trigger, but my initial impression is that between the Mink's DA trigger and thin grip, no slower on the draw on high prob targets than the Glock -- which is my benchmark for draw speed.

I sure get that platform doesn't matter, it is the Indian and not the arrow, but these CZ pistols are da bomb!

[GJM]

Found this vid of P 09 being shot at 100 yards:

http://youtu.be/eNIwcwXyzQM

[Mr_White]

First live fire range session with the Czech-nology today. Shot multiple pistols including a pair of Mink'd 75 SP01 Shadow, and a P01 carry gun.

Started at 25 yards. These CZ pistols, whether by their inherent mechanical accuracy or user interface, allowed me to shoot multiple groups at 25 yards, with each pistol that were some of the best groups I have shot with any pistol, ever. Best part, is I was just completely casual, shooting at a much faster than "300" pace. Remember Bill Riehl's thread on the 3x5 at 25, well I want a CZ, as I was later keeping them all in the IPSC upper A "credit card" shooting just WWB 115 ball, and the "junky" Georgia Arms canned heat. Learning the trigger, but my initial impression is that between the Mink's DA trigger and thin grip, no slower on the draw on high prob targets than the Glock -- which is my benchmark for draw speed.

I sure get that platform doesn't matter, it is the Indian and not the arrow, but these CZ pistols are da bomb!

That is awesome.

[JHC]

First live fire range session with the Czech-nology today. Shot multiple pistols including a pair of Mink'd 75 SP01 Shadow, and a P01 carry gun.

Started at 25 yards. These CZ pistols, whether by their inherent mechanical accuracy or user interface, allowed me to shoot multiple groups at 25 yards, with each pistol that were some of the best groups I have shot with any pistol, ever. Best part, is I was just completely casual, shooting at a much faster than "300" pace. Remember Bill Riehl's thread on the 3x5 at 25, well I want a CZ, as I was later keeping them all in the IPSC upper A "credit card" shooting just WWB 115 ball, and the "junky" Georgia Arms canned heat. Learning the trigger, but my initial impression is that between the Mink's DA trigger and thin grip, no slower on the draw on high prob targets than the Glock -- which is my benchmark for draw speed.

I sure get that platform doesn't matter, it is the Indian and not the arrow, but these CZ pistols are da bomb!

My CZ-75 pre - B from the early '90's is about the most mechanically accurate pistol I have. Right there with a Dave Sams custom 1911 anyway. Trigger is nothing special either. Just 'ok'. http://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/11108855603/

[JMorse]

For what it's worth, my long-time Glock fan buddy is head over heels in love with his CZ. He's pretty bummed out I went with the P30 instead of what he has.

[GJM]

Each of the CZ pistols came with a 25 meter test target from the factory. Using S&B ammo, the groups were something a S&W CS guy could only dream about. Anyone care to guess whether they shoot each M&P at 25 yards before leaving the factory?

The pistols extract/eject vigorously. I had my brass mat set where I would for a Glock, and most of my empty cases missed the mat altogether, and were in the snow beyond the mat.

[Chris Rhines]

It went against my better judgement, but I just put a bid down on an SP01 Accu-Shadow.

[GJM]

based on just finishing my second range session, I would say it was "good judgment."

[BCL]

I'm highly interested in both CZ's polymer line up as well as the Shadow line. I might have to pick a couple of these up in the relatively near future

[littlejerry]

based on just finishing my second range session, I would say it was "good judgment."

So why did you go with manual safety guns if you planned on carrying hammer down?

I can't decide between a standard B model or BD. Not crazy about a cocked hammer pointed at my crotch... But then again I carry a glock.

[Chris Rhines]

based on just finishing my second range session, I would say it was "good judgment."

You're enabling my addiction. Enabler!

[YVK]

You're enabling my addiction. Enabler!

Let me help him :)

LGS has an Accu-Shadow. Every time I go for a practice session, I stop and handle this gun. I do think that the DA on that one is a bit rough, but the gun is just an incredible piece of gaming kit anyway. If CZ had a carry option that I liked, I could see going all-Zed for carry and competition.

[JeffJ]

Let me help him :)

LGS has an Accu-Shadow. Every time I go for a practice session, I stop and handle this gun. I do think that the DA on that one is a bit rough, but the gun is just an incredible piece of gaming kit anyway. If CZ had a carry option that I liked, I could see going all-Zed for carry and competition.

Have you checked out the PCR? I'm currently working on the full sized to be a carry gun, but the PCR is very tempting

[YVK]

Nope, but I did check P-01, which I think has a similar controls layout? My concern is a location of decocker on these. When I get as high grip on the gun as possible, the strong side thumb goes right over the decocker for me. Doesn't feel particularly comfy, concern with accidental decocking and irritating that thumb under fire. I really need to find a way to live fire one of these.

[JeffJ]

Yep, basically the same gun, PCR doesn't have a rail and may have some other subtle differences. I obviously don't know if you'll have issues with the decocker :cool:

[GJM]

I did some stuff today with the Mink gun that was, frankly, way above my ability. Support hand Bill drill at 25 into less than the A zone, two shots freestyle draw at 25 in 1.85 +/-. Only my second live fire session since just before Christmas, and while I dry fired hard, I couldn't do this with a Glock on a bet. Clearly a technology improvement, as it is the best DA/SA trigger combo I have felt on anything. I thought we weren't supposed to be able to buy "performance."

[Mr_White]

I did some stuff today with the Mink gun that was, frankly, way above my ability. Support hand Bill drill at 25 into less than the A zone, two shots freestyle draw at 25 in 1.85 +/-. Only my second live fire session since just before Christmas, and while I dry fired hard, I couldn't do this with a Glock on a bet. Clearly a technology improvement, as it is the best DA/SA trigger combo I have felt on anything. I thought we weren't supposed to be able to buy "performance."

I think anything bigger/better/easier than a J-frame or LCP, and 'buying performance', with money and the effort required to carry it, is exactly what we are doing. And quite legitimately too. Some of the guns popular in competition, like those CZs, seem like a natural evolution of that overall process.

[JHC]

I did some stuff today with the Mink gun that was, frankly, way above my ability. Support hand Bill drill at 25 into less than the A zone, two shots freestyle draw at 25 in 1.85 +/-. Only my second live fire session since just before Christmas, and while I dry fired hard, I couldn't do this with a Glock on a bet. Clearly a technology improvement, as it is the best DA/SA trigger combo I have felt on anything. I thought we weren't supposed to be able to buy "performance."

You are consistently a superb shot with numerous guns. This evolution raises a bit of doubt about the meme that It's not the arrow its the indian cliché.

And to the often heard comments about some elite competitor; using elite competitive equipment; is all skill and equipment is a small margin factor. Yet this support hand 25 yd Bill Drill example is not a small margin of improvement.

From all I've heard about that level of CZ I would expect good. I wouldn't have expected that degree though. What you thought was your ability was not all there was eh? ;)

OK, now what? ;)

[YVK]

OK, now what? ;)

1. Dillon press and all the softest primers in the world, for we can't let it experience a light primer strike :)

2. Mink CZ has 6+ DA pull, worked overTanfoglio about 5...No brainer to me.

[Matt O]

When I get as high grip on the gun as possible, the strong side thumb goes right over the decocker for me.

Can't you just move your thumb slightly over on top of the base of your other thumb like you would with a Sig?

[YVK]

Can't you just move your thumb slightly over on top of the base of your other thumb like you would with a Sig?

I can, and I try, but I ain't good with it. I started my shooting path with P7 and 1911, the worst guns as far as strong thumb outboard discipline is concerned, and have never been able to fully cure it. I get slide no locks with oem glocks, I never get lockback on sigs, and had to shave a slide stop on a p30. That cz decocker is just too far back for me to feel optimistic.

[Matt O]

I can, and I try, but I ain't good with it...That cz decocker is just too far back for me to feel optimistic.

Fair enough. ;)

[GJM]

I can, and I try, but I ain't good with it. I started my shooting path with P7 and 1911, the worst guns as far as strong thumb outboard discipline is concerned, and have never been able to fully cure it. I get slide no locks with oem glocks, I never get lockback on sigs, and had to shave a slide stop on a p30. That cz decocker is just too far back for me to feel optimistic.

This is Russian double talk that translates is going to buy a Mink SP01 with thumb safety.

[LSP552]

I thought we weren't supposed to be able to buy "performance."



Buying true performance is a great thing, recognizing the opportunity is the hard part.:) It's probably a good thing that I don't know anyone with a top of the line CZ to shoot…….

Ken

[YVK]

This is Russian double talk that translates is going to buy a Mink SP01 with thumb safety.

First, you get through 600 rounds without a light strike, then I'll consider. Make it 300 rounds of WWB and 300 rounds of Blazer.

[JeffJ]

Buying true performance is a great thing, recognizing the opportunity is the hard part.:) It's probably a good thing that I don't know anyone with a top of the line CZ to shoot…….

Ken

Cajun Gun Works is just a few hours up the road...

[Mr_White]

Every so often I get excited about idea of shooting and carrying a really nice CZ. The only one I've actually shot is a friend's SP01 that he bought stock and upgraded with a bunch of the CGW parts. So, I think probably not quite as nice as a custom shop or Mink CZ, but it did have some extra juice in it. I thought it was very nice. Totally different feel than a Glock. It had a wonderful trigger, and I found it easy to shoot little spots at a modest distance. For some reason at 25 yards I was much less accurate with it than my Glock. The only reason I could think of for the difficulty at distance was that the sights were not terribly visible on the dimmer indoor range.

Within the bounds of that single range session, I definitely liked the gun, but was also not blown away by it. It didn't get me any overwhelming performance advantage in that session. I'd very much like to try a custom shop or Mink CZ and see how that works for me.

[LSP552]

Cajun Gun Works is just a few hours up the road...

I know……..must resist……..

Ken

[Mr_White]

So on a whim I just went to the gun shop down the street from work and looked at a CZ 75B (no SP01s or Shadows in stock.) I didn't really dig the trigger as is. I would definitely want the juiced up version. Still, a nice gun.

[benq]

CZ 75 out of the box is okay. After a trigger upgrade, totally different gun. IMHO.

[98z28]

I handled a couple P-07's at a local shop today. They both had the safety installed instead of the decocker. The single action trigger was fantastic. Smooth take up and a light, rolling break. Then I tried a double action pull. It was one of the worst double action triggers I have ever felt: heavy and gritty. Does anyone know if installing the decocker changes the double action trigger characteristics?

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[JeffJ]

I doubt it. If the polymer guns are anything like the steel ones, you'll need to swap springs.

[wmu12071]

I have never had the pull gauge on mine and I've only ever run the de-cocker. That being said my copy has a light DA pull compared to my 226 but it is a bit gritty.

[GJM]

Apparently P07 has been updated for 2014 with changeable back straps, dehorned slide, and new trigger. Not sure if you just felt a heavy DA one, and/if Mink or CZ Custom can work the DA trigger.

[Jaywalker]

I keep wanting to like the CZ double actions, but I expect I won't be successful until they build a trigger I can reach.

[littlejerry]

Apparently P07 has been updated for 2014 with changeable back straps, dehorned slide, and new trigger. Not sure if you just felt a heavy DA one, and/if Mink or CZ Custom can work the DA trigger.

Cgw has a hammer and spring kit for omega guns.

[TheTrevor]

You are all Very Bad People with your talk of CZ custom guns and buttery DA trigger pulls.

I'm sufficiently intrigued that I'm going to take a rental-case SP-01 for a 100-round test drive at the LGS tomorrow after I'm done shooting my planned drills. Not a custom gun, but should give me an idea as to how well I like shooting the basic platform.

[GJM]

The Mink's DA trigger is light enough, combined with a thinner grip than many DA/SA guns, that I am seeing Glock times on high prob, close targets. My regular Shadow trigger is decent, but nowhere near as good DA. I think a non Shadow is a few clicks worse yet.

[Comedian]

I just picked up a new CZ P01 compact. Its fairly lightweight, the DA trigger feels lighter than an HK and is smooth. The SA pull is smooth, light and has a short reset. Im curious to see how it compares to all the Sig's, HK's and Berettas I've played with.

[GJM]

The Mink's DA trigger is light enough, combined with a thinner grip than many DA/SA guns, that I am seeing Glock times on high prob, close targets. My regular Shadow trigger is decent, but nowhere near as good DA. I think a non Shadow is a few clicks worse yet.

Meant to say Glock draw times.

[JeffJ]

I keep wanting to like the CZ double actions, but I expect I won't be successful until they build a trigger I can reach.

It can be adjusted, won't be production legal, but it can be moved around some.

[Jaywalker]

Originally Posted by Jaywalker View Post
I keep wanting to like the CZ double actions, but I expect I won't be successful until they build a trigger I can reach.

It can be adjusted, won't be production legal, but it can be moved around some.
Thanks. I've noticed Cajun Gun Works offers a Reach Reduction System, but I've been holding out for some rethinking by CZ,. I may well get tired of waiting eventually.

[TheNewbie]

Does anyone remember or know about a barrel/frame bulge issue with the P-07?

Seems like when they first came out, that this issue was raised.

[GJM]

Think it was a frame bulging issue in early pistols, since resolved.

Had a few more range sessions with the Mink Shadow the last few days. It is an absolute weapon -- best shooting pistol I have ever shot, by a long way.

[Archimagirus]

Does anyone remember or know about a barrel/frame bulge issue with the P-07?

Seems like when they first came out, that this issue was raised.

I finally got a chance to inspect one of the new production P-07's and the LGS allowed me to field strip it. It did not exhibit the previous frame bulge issue. At the price point, I wouldn't mind taking a chance on one again and almost did.

[taadski]

I handled a couple P-07's at a local shop today. They both had the safety installed instead of the decocker. The single action trigger was fantastic. Smooth take up and a light, rolling break. Then I tried a double action pull. It was one of the worst double action triggers I have ever felt: heavy and gritty. Does anyone know if installing the decocker changes the double action trigger characteristics?

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


I've only played at length with a single P-07 but I can tell you that the DA characteristics stayed the same when changing it from safety to decocker. I can also tell you that the grittiness inherent in some stock (non-custom) CZ models (to include the Omega ones) get MUCH better with time/dryfire/break-in. I personally own a 75BD that doesn't even feel like the same pistol as when it was new, the trigger has smoothed up so much.


t

[TheNewbie]

Right now I carry a G19, but I am interested in something with an exposed hammer. The P-07 seems like a safe buy to train with on the side while becoming DA/SA proficient.

I know the above posts covered them to degree, but how does the P-07 trigger compare to a P-01? I had a P-01 for a while but never put many rounds through it.

[GJM]

Right now I carry a G19, but I am interested in something with an exposed hammer. The P-07 seems like a safe buy to train with on the side while becoming DA/SA proficient.

I know the above posts covered them to degree, but how does the P-07 trigger compare to a P-01? I had a P-01 for a while but never put many rounds through it.

When you say CZ, P01 or whatever trigger do you mean stock new, stock broken in, or customized by CZ Custom, Matt Mink or Cajun? Matt Mink told me yesterday that they can now do a CZ 75 level trigger job on the Omega trigger in the P07 and P09.

[Wendell]

Right now I carry a G19, but I am interested in something with an exposed hammer. The P-07 seems like a safe buy to train with on the side while becoming DA/SA proficient. I know the above posts covered them to degree, but how does the P-07 trigger compare to a P-01? I had a P-01 for a while but never put many rounds through it.

These (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4tOIhfCW8hE#t=118) look promising. (Skip to the two minute mark.)

[TheNewbie]

Thanks for the replies.

I am talking about a stock CZ trigger. My P-01 was not the best, but it was not any worse than my USP Compact. If I actually took the time to put enough rounds through it, that would probably help it out a lot.

[Yasnevo]

Price wise... I would go with the CZ P07. But I am speaking of USA prices. Plus, I have other CZ's... 75 and 85 and their magazines, I have read, can be used in the P07.
HK... not a huge fan due to the cost, the hugely long trigger pull, cost of extra magazines... etc etc..

I like CZ and they are priced right...

But yeah, I too would like to hear about private firearm ownership in Egypt...

[TheTrevor]

The OP hasn't been active since 26 Dec 2013, the day they created the account and posted this question. It seems unlikely that we'll hear back from them, in my experience.

[Luke]

The OP hasn't been active since 26 Dec 2013, the day they created the account and posted this question. It seems unlikely that we'll hear back from them, in my experience.

BUT!! If he does come back, he shall have 10+ pages of help deciding which one! :D

[littlejerry]

When you say CZ, P01 or whatever trigger do you mean stock new, stock broken in, or customized by CZ Custom, Matt Mink or Cajun? Matt Mink told me yesterday that they can now do a CZ 75 level trigger job on the Omega trigger in the P07 and P09.

I'm very curious to see how the P09 fairs. I like the idea of being able to switch out decocker/safety levers. One thing I've noticed is the new P07/P09 mags aren't offeres by MecGar. Its a shame because quality 75b mags are only 18-20 bucks while the new 07/09 mags are 40 each.

I'm going to try and locate a 75b Omega locally. It has the nicer frame/mag release and CGW has spring/hammer kits for it.

[gocubs6]

I had both a P01 and an SP01 for quite a long time. The pistols were fun to shoot and accurate as all get out. I'd say you'd be hard pressed for a better range gun. I did sell them both. The slide is very hard to grip if you are serious about running it and the edges are sharp as a knife. I busted my thumb open big time on the P01. I just picked up a P30S for a ridiculous good deal, so I'm ready to see how that runs.

[GJM]

I wandered into a gun shop today, and they had a CZ P07 -- my first time to handle the pistol. It was a 2013 model, the "Duty," since modified for 2014 to include changeable backstraps, a different trigger, removal of the "Duty" name, and forward serrations on the slide. Here is how I was struck by the P07.

The good.

The 15 round standard magazines were almost dead ringers for HK P30 magazines, and appeared to be very well made. The single action trigger was good. The DA trigger was heavy, although I understand Matt Mink, Cajun and CZ Custom can do a trigger job to improve it. The beavertail felt good, and the bottom of the frame extended a bit on the back, providing some protection against pinching your hand on a reload. The thumb safety and decocker location puts the decocker further forward and more out of the way.


The bad.

The P01 feels lovely in my hands, and exudes quality in how the outside is machined. I was expecting a polymer version of a P01, and it just isn't a polymer P01. The slide feels fat by comparison to the P01. The polymer is bit slick and could use stippling. The frame feels more blocky than the P01. CZ definitely missed the memo on Trijicon HD style sights. When I pulled the test target for the P07, the group wasn't quite as good as on any on my other CZ test targets, and the P07 group was shot at 15 meters compared to 25 meters on the targets for the P01 and SP01. I sure hope that isn't a clue as to CZ's accuracy expectation for the P07 (and P09).

With the caveat that I didn't shoot the P07, and give it a chance to charm me over, overall in that the P07 costs about what a CZ 75BD does, the classic metal CZ feels a better value, and a better base to do custom work on.

[joshs]

GJM -- I agree that the P07 doesn't seem to be as well made as the steel or aluminium framed CZs. I also don't like how much fatter the slide is compared to other CZs. Just based on handling one in a gun store, it seemed liked there was absolutely no way I would get slide lock with the huge slide stop/release. If I were to get another CZ it would be a P01 or 75BD.

[GJM]

Josh, I note that P01 and SP01, per the CZ website, supposedly have a different beavertail and some frame mods to allow for a higher grip than the CZ75. Is the difference just noise, or do you think it is material?

The Shadow doesn't have a firing pin block. If a person carried a Shadow in an appendix holster, what scenario would it take to make the pistol fire unintentionally, due to lack of the block?

[JAD]

. If a person carried a Shadow in an appendix holster, what scenario would it take to make the pistol fire unintentionally, due to lack of the block?

It would require rapid deceleration and a hard surface, in your pants. So, porn in a broken elevator should do the trick.

[joshs]

I think the newer frames are more comfortable. I tend to get a little bit of discomfort where the edges of the old style beavertail digs into the web of my hand when shooting higher round counts, but I didn't notice a performance difference that could be attributed to the beavertail (the big heavy dustcover on the SP definitely helps with recoil, so I couldn't tell you exactly what was coming from the heavier weight and what was from the improved ergos).

I'm very risk averse, so I wouldn't carry a gun without a firing pin block. That being said, on a gun that is carried hammer forward with the hammer on an intercept notch, it don't know that it's that much of an issue. I think it would take a serious impact to the back of the hammer to break the hammer or sear and have generate enough force to light a primer. One benefit of a firing pin block is that it will prevent the gun from doubling/going full auto in the case of hammer follow. At least I think the CZ FPB resets while the trigger is to the rear. This is one of the complaints that some people have with the Sig SRT trigger, since it holds the firing pin block in the up position to allow for the super short reset.

[YVK]

GJM were discussing this yesterday. One concern that I have is that all these sweet CZ trigger jobs include an extended firing pin and light fp spring. I'd go for fp block option for carry.

[Wendell]

[Removed by JV: Try to avoid NSFW links, especially when it's not marked NSFW.]