AR15 Article on "When To Draw."

[NETim]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285487_Street_robberies_and_you___The_Basics.html&page=1

I haven't been able to find any references to this article here at PF.com. It's a 30 page long thread there at AR15.com. I only read about 6 pages of it. Most of the responses were of the High Five category, which echo my thoughts.

However, there is a tidbit of advice which leaves me a bit puzzled:

When to draw

Despite warnings I often see on the Net I have yet to encounter an instance in which a hold up man called the police to report his intended victim threatened to shoot him. Thugs do not want to come into contact with the police. They may already be wanted or realize chances are good they have been identified in a recent robbery. Or what ever. They are not going to call the police if you draw on them.


It's been drilled into my head that there is a need to call 911 REGARDLESS to protect your interests.

Given the law enforcement experience and expertise I see on display daily here, I thought I'd bring this up. I'd like to hear their thoughts.

I'll even listen to the ones with only moderately good porno names. :)

[David Armstrong]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285487_Street_robberies_and_you___The_Basics.html&page=1

I haven't been able to find any references to this article here at PF.com. It's a 30 page long thread there at AR15.com. I only read about 6 pages of it. Most of the responses were of the High Five category, which echo my thoughts.

However, there is a tidbit of advice which leaves me a bit puzzled:

When to draw

Despite warnings I often see on the Net I have yet to encounter an instance in which a hold up man called the police to report his intended victim threatened to shoot him. Thugs do not want to come into contact with the police. They may already be wanted or realize chances are good they have been identified in a recent robbery. Or what ever. They are not going to call the police if you draw on them.


It's been drilled into my head that there is a need to call 911 REGARDLESS to protect your interests.

Given the law enforcement experience and expertise I see on display daily here, I thought I'd bring this up. I'd like to hear their thoughts.

I'll even listen to the ones with only moderately good porno names. :)
I'll agree. I teach my students any time they feel they need to threaten someone with a firearm they also need to contact the police and report they were in an incident. My view is that if it is bad enough you feel your life is in danger (otherwise why are you feeling the need to use a firearm?) then it is bad enough to report it.

[idahojess]

Few pages down.

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?8049-Street-robberies-and-you

[BarneyCallahan]

NETim,

(I have not read the 30 page thread you referenced)

As a retired big city LEO I have some insight and advice to offer. I agree with David that, "any time they feel they need to threaten someone with a firearm they also need to contact the police and report they were in an incident."

If you've just found it (reasonably necessary) to draw on somebody it's because you (reasonably) perceived that yourself or somebody else was about to become the victim of a life threatening felony. That crime, or attempted crime, needs to be reported ASAP so that the police can try to solve the crime, apprehend the crooks and prevent somebody else from becoming a victim. So reporting the "incident" to the police shouldn't be just to cover your a**; it is part of being a "good neighbor" by doing your part to help prevent another person from becoming the victim of a violent crime.

Now, depending on your situational awareness and insight (something good cops develop through their training and experience) it's possible to perceive a deadly threat is about to unfold before the actual elements of a felony actually present themselves. In such a case it may be possible to take preemptive action (such as exhibiting your gun), resulting in a non-incident in which the various parties (including you) peacefully go their own way. In such a situation it may be difficult to articulate what (criminally) just occurred for the purpose of a police report. So be prepared to be able to clearly and factually explain (the best you can) what happened that led you to the belief that you reasonably needed to draw exhibit your firearm.

I will admit that in the pre-cell phone days there were a few times, while off duty, that I found it necessary to draw and exhibit my gun to preempt a violent criminal act, but did not report it because no harm came of it. Example: Very late one night my wife was driving and I was "riding shotgun" when, as we approached a red light on a deserted street, I noticed two shady characters walking down the sidewalk to our right take notice of us. As we came to a stop I saw them leave the sidewalk, split up, and approach our car from the rear. One was heading towards my side; the other was heading towards my wife's side. Rather than wait to see what they were up to, I quickly exited the car (a tactical death trap) and firmly but politely confronted them at gun point. Without saying a word they both changed direction and departed our immediate vicinity. Were they going to rob us, shoot us, car jack us, kidnap my wife? I didn't wait to find out and we'll never know. Were they up to serious no good? No doubt in my mind. But what do you write in a police report? Nevertheless, you should report any such incident.

By the way: If I had been driving that night I would have just (safely) driven through the red light to avoid a confrontation with the two characters.

I hope that helps some. May the good guys always win.

[NETim]

Few pages down.

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?8049-Street-robberies-and-you

I KNEW IT! My search-foo here sucks apparently.

Thanks!