Speed and Trigger Control - Epiphany

[rjohnson4405]

I had an epiphany that I'm thinking I should have had a long time ago. I've had 40 hours of dedicated pistol training (all at TDI, Ohio, branching out is on the list), but I still hadn't grasped the idea of trigger control.

Basically, to gain speed on my shots I would line up my sights perfectly on target and then just smash the trigger faster. This worked on an IDPA 8 inch circle at seven yards and even on a 3x5 card for the FAST, though I slowed down a lot.

What made me realize that I might be doing something wrong is low probability targets, (Dot Torture, Press Six, 3x5 drill, etc). Plus I coached my brother who just got his first handgun and he was shooting the low probability targets as well as I was in no time. Also, I had trouble calling my shots because my sights were always in the middle of the target before I jammed that trigger to the rear.

So here's my epiphany - You should always make a good trigger press. Where you gain speed is in your sight picture. It doesn't have to be perfect, just close enough. In short, the bullet always impacts the last place you saw your sights.

I've already improved on my times on both large targets and small targets considerably. I'm broken some plateaus and set some new personal records. Very exciting so far.

It sounds stupid typing it out, I mean it's all over this site, but for some reason I had the idea you had to compromise a good trigger press to get speed.

Maybe this will help another new shooter from going down the same path.

What do you think?

[MDS]

SOOO with you on this. I practiced nothing but trigger control for months, and the results speak for themselves. I'm a total noob, but I feel like a solid foundation in trigger control makes it easier for me to pick up all the things that I'm starting to learn - like press-outs and fast splits. The funny thing is, when I'm learning a new thing and the results start going south, more often than not it's because I stopped focusing on the trigger. As soon as I think about the trigger - while doing whatever is new - I get much better results.

It's like trigger control is so important, that if you can only get a perfect trigger press every time, you can do pretty well even on your first try at any shooting task.

So, I still spend most of my dry-fire doing Wall Drills, always pushing to get more and more perfect reps under less and less forgiving circumstances.


I had an epiphany that I'm thinking I should have had a long time ago. I've had 40 hours of dedicated pistol training (all at TDI, Ohio, branching out is on the list), but I still hadn't grasped the idea of trigger control.

Basically, to gain speed on my shots I would line up my sights perfectly on target and then just smash the trigger faster. This worked on an IDPA 8 inch circle at seven yards and even on a 3x5 card for the FAST, though I slowed down a lot.

What made me realize that I might be doing something wrong is low probability targets, (Dot Torture, Press Six, 3x5 drill, etc). Plus I coached my brother who just got his first handgun and he was shooting the low probability targets as well as I was in no time. Also, I had trouble calling my shots because my sights were always in the middle of the target before I jammed that trigger to the rear.

So here's my epiphany - You should always make a good trigger press. Where you gain speed is in your sight picture. It doesn't have to be perfect, just close enough. In short, the bullet always impacts the last place you saw your sights.

I've already improved on my times on both large targets and small targets considerably. I'm broken some plateaus and set some new personal records. Very exciting so far.

It sounds stupid typing it out, I mean it's all over this site, but for some reason I had the idea you had to compromise a good trigger press to get speed.

Maybe this will help another new shooter from going down the same path.

What do you think?

[John Hearne]

I recently saw an interview with TGO aka Robby Leatham. When he discussed trigger control, he stated that he had three degrees of trigger control. He simply used the degree of trigger control necessary for the shot. What makes him the TGO, is that he intuitively knows which one he can get away with.

My take is that you can't fake the high level of trigger control necessary for a precision shot. Anybody can slap the trigger but as you see in Dot Torture, that isn't always the degree of trigger control necessary.

[beltjones]

I was at SHOT show 2011 with my dad (who likes to shoot but he's not a "shooter"), and I was explaining to him that it's intuitive to think that accuracy is about the quality of your sight picture and that speed is about how fast you can pull the trigger, but in reality it's the opposite. Your accuracy is all about the quality of the trigger pull, and your speed is all about how quickly you're able to get an acceptable sight picture. It was the first time in years that I had a few hours with my dad to just talk guns and shooting, and we talked about all kinds of things as we wandered around the booths.

Just as I made the point above (basically the same thing as your epiphany) some guy nearby chimed in with, "Not really, the best guys can just hold the gun perfectly still and whang on the trigger." "Maybe that's what it looks like on youtube." I replied.

I know I know. "Cool story, bro." But your epiphany reminded me of it, so technically it's your fault.

[rjohnson4405]

That may be part of it John that there are different trigger pulls that I should be practicing.

Obviously, I should be going faster on larger (easier) targets.

Do you personally make a "perfect" trigger pull every time or do you sacrifice a good pull for some speed sometimes?

[rjohnson4405]

I was at SHOT show 2011 with my dad (who likes to shoot but he's not a "shooter"), and I was explaining to him that it's intuitive to think that accuracy is about the quality of your sight picture and that speed is about how fast you can pull the trigger, but in reality it's the opposite. Your accuracy is all about the quality of the trigger pull, and your speed is all about how quickly you're able to get an acceptable sight picture. It was the first time in years that I had a few hours with my dad to just talk guns and shooting, and we talked about all kinds of things as we wandered around the booths.

Just as I made the point above (basically the same thing as your epiphany) some guy nearby chimed in with, "Not really, the best guys can just hold the gun perfectly still and whang on the trigger." "Maybe that's what it looks like on youtube." I replied.

I know I know. "Cool story, bro." But your epiphany reminded me of it, so technically it's your fault.

That was a great story! The way you put it was better than I could.

"It's intuitive to think that accuracy is about the quality of your sight picture and that speed is about how fast you can pull the trigger, but in reality it's the opposite. Your accuracy is all about the quality of the trigger pull, and your speed is all about how quickly you're able to get an acceptable sight picture." - beltjones

[beltjones]

That may be part of it John that there are different trigger pulls that I should be practicing.

Obviously, I should be going faster on larger (easier) targets.

Do you personally make a "perfect" trigger pull every time or do you sacrifice a good pull for some speed sometimes?

All of that comes down to, in my humble opinion, experience. Over time you learn what you can get away with in terms of sight picture and trigger control.

On an up close, wide open target I know I can get away with mashing the trigger and looking over the sights. On a far or obstructed/partial target I know I need a very precise sight picture and very deliberate trigger manipulation. Obviously one can't be consciously in control of everything at once (at least I can't - I also can't sing and play guitar at the same time though), but practicing to the point where your subconscious will handle most of the "work" while your conscious mind pays attention to what it needs to see or feel in order to make the shot is what it takes to improve. Hopefully for all of us it's a cycle of never-ending improvement.

[NickA]

I love it when you have moments like that. I'm also very prone to hearing something a million times and knowing it but not really GETTING it until something seemingly unrelated ties it together.

[rjohnson4405]

Funny you say that NickA -

Another thing that made me realize this is someone's AAR of a class was where they shot at targets with intentionally incorrect sight pictures to see how much they could get away with.

Notice they didn't practice crappy trigger pulls.

[ToddG]

Both the quality of your sight picture and the quality of your trigger press can, will, and should vary depending on the target you're trying to hit and the circumstances (time, cost of a miss, movement, illumination, etc.).

Learning how "sloppy" your sights and your trigger can be comes only with experience. It's easy to teach yourself what an acceptable sight picture will be for a given target at a given distance. The trigger press is less obvious.

If all else fails, it's better to use too much precision in your trigger press (and sight picture) than too little. Being a little slower is better than missing.

[rjohnson4405]

I had never worked on low probability targets at speed. I could hit them if I had ten full seconds to aim, but not if you put me on the timer.

Just a case of you don't know what you don't know I think.

I had practiced pure accuracy (no time limit) shooting and timed shooting (nothing smaller than 3x5 card), but never timed, accurate shooting.

I think there was a point in my shooting learning process where I should have picked this up, not right at the beginning, but not this late in the game either.

[Al T.]

Here's RL's interview:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/05/30/world-champion-pistol-shooter-rob-leatham-talks-about-pistol-shooting/

[John Hearne]

Do you personally make a "perfect" trigger pull every time or do you sacrifice a good pull for some speed sometimes?

I hadn't thought about it until you asked the question but I'd say I use three degrees of trigger control.

The highest level of control is what I use to shoot the FBI bullseye course. You literally want to feel the sear slowly working its way out of the notch in the hammer.

The lowest is what I use up close and it's all about speed. I'm not worried about reset or removing any slack - it's just constant back and forth on the trigger. I suspect that I'm relying on a very strong grip to keep the gun stable enough to maintain acceptable group despite the extra oomph on the trigger.

The one in the middle is the toughest for me. At this level, I'm working my trigger reset, taking the slack out, and not wanging on the trigger but trying to be quick about it.

It seems that shots which require a lot of trigger control are easy to figure out and we can figure out when we can wang the trigger - it's knowing when to split the difference that's hard.

I utterly agree with Todd's statement that when in doubt, use more than you think you need. In real life you need to guarantee the hit and the best way to do that is to have a bit more sights and trigger than you think you need. In competition, using too little may cost you a point or three. In real life, too little can be a clean miss on a partial target, an innocent injured, or the complete waste of time and ammo on ineffective hits.

[rjohnson4405]

Here's RL's interview:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/05/30/world-champion-pistol-shooter-rob-leatham-talks-about-pistol-shooting/

Great interview, pretty much exactly what John Hearne was talking about.

I like having things broken down explicitly like that for me.

It seems there are three categories if you could break all shots into three groups, I think I'm going to call it shooting theory (of course I'm not the first one to think of these things, quit raining on my parade):

- Get a good grip

- Crusher grip where it doesn't matter if gun is shaking as long as it's stable
- As tight as can be held without causing tremor
- Holding tight enough to maintain sight picture and not drop the gun
- Get the necessary sight picture

- No sight picture, looking over top
- Sight picture anywhere on current target (8 inch circle, 3x5 card)
- Perfect sight picture in the middle of target (bullseye)
- Make the correct trigger pull

- No trigger control
- Minimum necessary trigger control to hit target
- Extreme trigger control (pure accuracy/group size focus)