2015 PT.com test pistol... Korth

[JodyH]

Korth PRS
Starts at $5400 and goes to $10k+


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHTcfTG9A-k

[TR675]

So...a bastardized hybrid of a P9 and 1911?

Neat concept. I always liked the idea of roller-locked pistols. Seems a bit spendy, though. And surely they could have come up with a few improvements on the frame design?

[Byron]

I don't understand why a company would invest in such high production values for a video, then apparently fail to hire a native English speaker for copy editing.


TESTED A MILLION TIMES
HANDLE DESIGN AND TECHNOLOGY.


AFTER EACH SHOT YOU
CAN ONLY THINK OF ONE:
NEXT PLEASE

[Tamara]

Oh, gawd, a Korth 1911!

I bet I know some ausländerpistole fanbois that are making "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!" videos right now. I'm going to the kitchen to pop a bowl of schadenfreude and head over to some Call of Honor forum to wash it down with their tears.

[TORCH2J]

Gosh and golly, but that front sight is just a deal breaker. Oh wait, yeah, the price as well.

[Tamara]

For the practical difference between that and a bespoke 1911 for a third of the price, that thing's parts better have been hand-filed from barstock by blind monks under the light of a new moon and quenched in the blood of a Numidian virgin, that's all I'm saying.

[TORCH2J]

For the practical difference between that and a bespoke 1911 for a third of the price, that thing's parts better have been hand-filed from barstock by blind monks under the light of a new moon and quenched in the blood of a Numidian virgin, that's all I'm saying.

I doubt that any Numidian virgins were harmed in the making. However, I'm almost positive that Brünnhilde and her sister valkyries were hard at work on the assembly lines. The price obviously reflects their rates.

[Joe in PNG]

I doubt that any Numidian virgins were harmed in the making. However, I'm almost positive that Brünnhilde and her sister valkyries were hard at work on the assembly lines. The price obviously reflects their rates.

Hammered out by the finest craftsdwarves of the Naugrim...

[Slavex]

make it a double stack mag, get rid of the safeties, make it DA first shot. Then maybe, maybe.

[Tamara]

Did you hear about the new German anvil? It's got twelve moving parts and is electrohydraulically-operated.

[ToddG]

Korth PRS
Starts at $5400 and goes to $10k+

Please contact me directly to discuss your offer to sponsor the 2015 test.

[ffhounddog]

So Did I miss the 2014 test? Where did 2014 go....

[JodyH]

So Did I miss the 2014 test? Where did 2014 go....
You missed the Taurus 24/7 test?
It made it 24 hours but broke before the 7 days were up.

[Tamara]

You missed the Taurus 24/7 test?
It made it 24 hours but broke before the 7 days were up.

Well played. :cool:

[ffhounddog]

Oh I thought I has missed all of 2014.

[Jim Watson]

make it a double stack mag, get rid of the safeties, make it DA first shot. Then maybe, maybe.

Korth has already done that. It was a beautifully made flop. One of its fans admits that it is finicky as to ammo, not particularly accurate, and has a looong trigger pull.

[Tamara]

One of its fans admits that it is finicky as to ammo, not particularly accurate, and has a looong trigger pull.

Unpossible. Look at the price tag! It's obviously superior! ;)

[TheTrevor]

That mechanism shown at 1:10 reminds me an awful lot of the Marlin 60 guts I have arrayed on my workbench right now. And I don't mean that in a particularly good way.

My inner mechanical engineer says "needs about 10 more iterations of simplification and parts reduction"...

[Eternal24k]

i would love to just play with one. It's overly complicated, expensive, and i want one

[DanH]

I've decided, based solely on this video, that Korth is German for Rube Goldberg.
Just how many parts can they fit in a gun?

[JodyH]

i would love to just play with one. It's overly complicated, expensive, and i want one
It would be the only gun detail stripped and cleaned more than it's shot if I owned it.
A marvel of over engineering.
Like an ordnance steel Rubicks cube.

[Erik]

I would like to know where I can buy that pencil.

[TCinVA]

I have this fantasy in my head of John Moses Browning taking a look at that thing, then turning to the designer and saying "This is why you lost the war."

[DanH]

I have this fantasy in my head of John Moses Browning taking a look at that thing, then turning to the designer and saying "This is why you lost the war."

OK you win the internets

[zeleny]

Korth PRS
Starts at $5400 and goes to $10k+MSRP $3000.

[zeleny]

For the practical difference between that and a bespoke 1911 for a third of the price, that thing's parts better have been hand-filed from barstock by blind monks under the light of a new moon and quenched in the blood of a Numidian virgin, that's all I'm saying.A "bespoke" M1911 will cost you over $5K. The Korth PRS starts at $3K. The "practical" difference between them is due to the superior strength and accuracy of the Vorgrimler roller-delayed blowback operating system and the modular construction that allows e.g. an easy conversion to a long-barreled pistol carbine that would be impracticable in the tilting barrel, short recoil Browning action.

[Tamara]

I should have figured you'd have a Google alert set up on this.

[LittleLebowski]

A "bespoke" M1911 will cost you over $5K. The Korth PRS starts at $3K. The "practical" difference between them is due to the superior strength and accuracy of the Vorgrimler roller-delayed blowback operating system and the modular construction that allows e.g. an easy conversion to a long-barreled pistol carbine that would be impracticable in the tilting barrel, short recoil Browning action.

Do you have a lot of rounds through Korths?

[bofe954]

A "bespoke" M1911 will cost you over $5K. The Korth PRS starts at $3K. The "practical" difference between them is due to the superior strength and accuracy of the Vorgrimler roller-delayed blowback operating system and the modular construction that allows e.g. an easy conversion to a long-barreled pistol carbine that would be impracticable in the tilting barrel, short recoil Browning action.

A "bespoke" 1911 can easily be had for around 3K.

Korth needs to get some kind of 3-5K pistol approved for USPSA production...

[Slavex]

But why would you want to convert a 1911 to a carbine? Just, um, buy a carbine. I see nothing, besides the cool factor, in this design that makes it any better than what we can get already.


A "bespoke" M1911 will cost you over $5K. The Korth PRS starts at $3K. The "practical" difference between them is due to the superior strength and accuracy of the Vorgrimler roller-delayed blowback operating system and the modular construction that allows e.g. an easy conversion to a long-barreled pistol carbine that would be impracticable in the tilting barrel, short recoil Browning action.

[Tamara]

But why would you want to convert a 1911 to a carbine?

I have no idea why one would want to, but you can get a 16" tube and a shoulder stock from such high end purveyors as CTD. The ones I've handled worked fine, if that's your thing. (I didn't let anybody take pictures of me shooting it at Blogorado, lest it be taken as approval of the idea.;) )

[zeleny]

Do you have a lot of rounds through Korths?Over the past three years, I count about four thousand commercial Magnum rounds fired through about six dozen Korth and Manurhin revolvers. In Korths, almost all my shooting is with a 38-series 6" Sport, an S-series 6" Sport, and an F-series Profi Sport. In Manurhins, my shooting is spread out between 6" and 5¼" Sport, 4" Gendarmerie, and 3" Police pieces. I tend to hold the 6" Korth a bit steadier, so the first piece I listed is the one shoot the most.

Per the forum rules, I note that I sell around two out of three guns that I import on ATF Form 6. It's not a commercial enterprise, but selling a few keeps down my costs of owning the ones I keep.

[Tamara]

A "bespoke" 1911 can easily be had for around 3K.

IMO, North of ~$2.5k, it's generally because one wanted a specific "name" builder with a backlog, or wanted some gingerbread cosmetics.

[zeleny]

A "bespoke" 1911 can easily be had for around 3K.Not so. You can get a benchmade gun from Les Baer and his likes for three grand. A full custom from, say, Ned Christiansen (http://www.m-guns.com/available.php) or Jason Burton (http://www.hp1911.com/index.php/gunsforsale-saop) will cost you five grand and up. Way up.
Korth needs to get some kind of 3-5K pistol approved for USPSA production...I agree. I have interviewed the new owners of Korth at the past two SHOT Shows. They are making a serious effort to get in the game. I will know more in a couple of weeks.

[Greg Bell]

Looks pretty neat to me.

[zeleny]

I have no idea why one would want to, but you can get a 16" tube and a shoulder stock from such high end purveyors as CTD. The ones I've handled worked fine, if that's your thing. (I didn't let anybody take pictures of me shooting it at Blogorado, lest it be taken as approval of the idea.;) )One might want to convert a pistol to a carbine for the same reason millions of Chinese soldiers and bandits prized the C96 Mauser as the best sidearm ever made. The Vorgrimler system is especially well suited to this application by accommodating Magnum-class loadings and providing a stable platform for the front sight. The M1911, not so much.

[zeleny]

But why would you want to convert a 1911 to a carbine? Just, um, buy a carbine. I see nothing, besides the cool factor, in this design that makes it any better than what we can get already.There are many logistical advantages to a pistol convertible to a carbine. DWM and Mauser, respectively, are responsible for millions of casualties in the XXth century unpleasantness between Europe and Asia, with the P08 and the C96. For a defensive shooter today, it makes for a primary sidearm that can be redeployed in a form factor readily accessible to his spouse and kids. And a full-bore 10mm Norma loading out of a 16" barrel will take down any free range creature in North America.

[JodyH]

There are many logistical advantages to a pistol convertible to a carbine.
Not really.
The logistics of having two separate firearms is much simpler, especially if they're the same caliber and can share magazines (9mm AR that uses Glock mags for example).

[zeleny]

IMO, North of ~$2.5k, it's generally because one wanted a specific "name" builder with a backlog, or wanted some gingerbread cosmetics.I will stipulate that lowering your standards will get you better prices on most anything.

[zeleny]

Not really.
The logistics of having two separate firearms is much simpler, especially if they're the same caliber and can share magazines (9mm AR that uses Glock mags for example).The form factor of an AR15 is far in excess of what's needed to cope with a pistol cartridge.

[Tamara]

Not so. You can get a benchmade gun from Les Baer and his likes for three grand.

No, I spoke clearly and I meant what I said. I was not referring to an off-the-shelf catalog gun.

[Tamara]

Looks pretty neat to me.

This is my shocked face.

[Tamara]

. DWM and Mauser, respectively, are responsible for millions of casualties in the XXth century unpleasantness between Europe and Asia, with the P08 and the C96.

I'd bet a C-note that the Luger and Broomhandle didn't account for a million corpses even if you count the ones made by kneeling them in front of ditches first. To suggest that the availability of a shoulder stock had something to do with this is laughable.

[Greg Bell]

This is my shocked face.


Good one:confused:

[zeleny]

I'd bet a C-note that the Luger and Broomhandle didn't account for a million corpses even if you count the ones made by kneeling them in front of ditches first. To suggest that the availability of a shoulder stock had something to do with this is laughable.WWI casualty estimates range between 15,000,000 and 65,000,000. Russian civil war casualty estimates range between 5,000,000 and 9,000,000. WWII casualty estimates range between 40,000,000 and 71,000,000. Sino-Japanese wars and the Chinese civil war add another 35,000,000. Keeping to the low end of these ranges yields a total of 95,000,000. Now we can discuss its fraction harvested with the most popular sidearms employed in these conflicts by belligerents especially reliant on handgun tactics. What standards of proof would you care to employ?

[Tamara]

WWI casualty estimates range between 15,000,000 and 65,000,000. Russian civil war casualty estimates range between 5,000,000 and 9,000,000. WWII casualty estimates range between 40,000,000 and 71,000,000. Sino-Japanese wars and the Chinese civil war add another 35,000,000. Keeping to the low end of these ranges yields a total of 95,000,000. Now we can discuss its fraction harvested with the most popular sidearms employed in these conflicts by belligerents especially reliant on handgun tactics. What standards of proof would you care to employ?

Leaving aside my amusement that you thought you had to provide those numbers as though they would be a revelation, and the idea that sidearms account for anything other than a tiny fraction of battlefield KIA in "XXth" Century warfare, show me where you have anything like statistical proof that they were the most numerically popular sidearms?

[zeleny]

Leaving aside my amusement that you thought you had to provide those numbers as though they would be a revelation, and the idea that sidearms account for anything other than a tiny fraction of battlefield KIA in "XXth" Century warfare, show me where you have anything like statistical proof that they were the most numerically popular sidearms?Given that you already know everything, I shall abstain from providing DWM and Mauser production numbers as though they would be a revelation, deferring the rest of this conversation to you talking to yourself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e9CkhBb18E

[JodyH]

The form factor of an AR15 is far in excess of what's needed to cope with a pistol cartridge.
And the form factor of the Korth PRS is far in excess of what's needed for a 7 round .45acp.
:cool:

[zeleny]

And the form factor of the Korth PRS is far in excess of what's needed for a 7 round .45acp.
:cool:It's a prototype. Your feedback will be appreciated.

[ToddG]

Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Play nice or go home.

[Joe in PNG]

Ah, the shoulder stocked pistol. It is a neat idea, but in practise, meh. What do you do with the sholder stock? Leave it on the gun? Might as well carry a carbine/SMG of some sort and get some benefit from the longer barrel and a more powerful cartrage. How about a holster/stock combo? Nah, you get something that is a crappy stock and a worse holster. Plus is one going to take the time, during a gunfight, to remove the holster from their belt and mount it to the gun?

I also find it interesting that I've seen very few photos or films from WW1 of people actually toting stocked Mausers, Lugers, et al.

[zeleny]

Ah, the shoulder stocked pistol. It is a neat idea, but in practise, meh. What do you do with the sholder stock? Leave it on the gun? Might as well carry a carbine/SMG of some sort and get some benefit from the longer barrel and a more powerful cartrage. How about a holster/stock combo? Nah, you get something that is a crappy stock and a worse holster. Plus is one going to take the time, during a gunfight, to remove the holster from their belt and mount it to the gun?

I also find it interesting that I've seen very few photos or films from WW1 of people actually toting stocked Mausers, Lugers, et al.About 175,000 LP08 rigs were issued by the German army during WWI. Information and photos posted on the websites of Charles Whittaker (http://www.landofborchardt.com/pwluger.html) and Mauro Baudino (http://www.lugerlp08.com/historical%20pictures.htm) will give you a good idea of their use in the field. Mauser made over 160,000 C96 rigs between 1914 and 1918, with most of them dedicated or diverted to military use. In lieu of citing anecdotes about the effectiveness of the C96 and P08 as trench sweepers, I will point out that the Central Powers were more than twice as economically effective (http://www.flandersfieldsmusic.com/WWI-statistics.html) at killing and wounding enemy personnel as the Allied Powers. Give them some credit for issuing hundreds of thousands of shoulder stocked pistols to that end. You might also consider the iconic status of the C96 east of the Landstraße, owing to the star billing it received in the Russian and Chinese civil wars and Sino-Japanese wars. As for the way they were used, here are a few examples:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NHIqCLsyJTg/UsokV-U809I/AAAAAAAAJWY/P6ri6mP7AIU/w394-h493-no/c96dude.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-75kX4U_mHfA/UsokY5KBLsI/AAAAAAAAJXY/Qx1GRb8IMuk/w500-h408-no/c96troops.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PbDyAy8y-zg/UsokURVo9YI/AAAAAAAAJV0/aj_YXbXfles/w556-h341-no/c96bitches.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nIMZ35zjHCc/UsokYKruk5I/AAAAAAAAJXI/fRMgbSEr-Eg/s500-no/c96nazis.jpg

[ToddG]

In lieu of citing anecdotes about the effectiveness of the C96 and P08 as trench sweepers, I will point out that the Central Powers were more than twice as economically effective (http://www.flandersfieldsmusic.com/WWI-statistics.html) at killing and wounding enemy personnel as the Allied Powers.

That must be why they won the war.

[TR675]

Mauser made over 160,000 C96 rigs between 1914 and 1918, with most of them dedicated or diverted to military use. In lieu of citing anecdotes about the effectiveness of the C96 and P08 as trench sweepers, I will point out that the Central Powers were more than twice as economically effective (http://www.flandersfieldsmusic.com/WWI-statistics.html) at killing and wounding enemy personnel as the Allied Powers. Give them some credit for issuing hundreds of thousands of shoulder stocked pistols to that end. You might also consider the iconic status of the C96 east of the Landstraße, owing to the star billing it received in the Russian and Chinese civil wars and Sino-Japanese wars.

Re: "twice as economically effective," I would argue that had less to do with shoulder-stocked pistols - which I seriously doubt were distributed en masse to front line infantry shock troops, but I digress - and more to do with abhorrently stupid tactics on the part of the Allies and the fact that they were trying to dislodge the Germans from French soil...

Their iconic status doesn't mean much to me, either; the 1911 is iconic too, but replacing it with .38 S&W Victory models wouldn't have changed the outcome of the war one bit.

[Byron]

Over the past three years, I count about four thousand commercial Magnum rounds fired through about six dozen Korth and Manurhin revolvers.
You've fired 72 different revolvers in three years, averaging about 56 rounds on each? Or 18.5 rounds per revolver, per year?

Serious question: why?

At 1,333 rounds per year, why spread them out across 72 different revolvers?

[45dotACP]

or or OR! You could just get a 1911...good quality Springfields are 750-800ish if you're willing to tune them up. I have heard that the SACS/Warren gun was what...$2500. I could just get a fully decked out SIG or HK from Mr. Gray, or you could just buy a glock, M&P, or HK45 or P30. One of each or ten of one? Or just one of those guns and a carbine! And a shotgun! And enough ammo to make Todd blush! All for the starting price of one Korth...If you felt like going the full on expensive Korth...well you could probably get almost everything I just listed above...but assuming I would ever have that much money, I'd just as soon not beta test a new design :cool:

Also I will never believe that pistol caliber carbine will ever offer any advantages over a .223 carbine with 30 on tap...YMMV

[JonInWA]

I'd say that the Soviets put a fairly (albeit historically brief) answer to the conundrum by going to en mass unit submachine gun issue-particularly to the PPSH, prior to the post-Korean War route of militaries gravitating towards the intermediate cartridge. Some of FN's recent products provide another interesting sin, but one that has yet to see any wide-spread acceptance/adoption.

FWIW, I strongly suspect that most people issued such shoulder-stocked handguns fairly quickly discarded the shoulder stocks as relatively useless weight-a pistol for most is a last-ditch defensive weapon, or a badge of office, and it's convenience is one of it's most desirable features. A shoulder stock diminishes the convenience and provides very limited increased effectiveness.

Best. Jon

[TheTrevor]

FWIW, I strongly suspect that most people issued such shoulder-stocked handguns fairly quickly discarded the shoulder stocks as relatively useless weight-a pistol for most is a last-ditch defensive weapon, or a badge of office, and it's convenience is one of it's most desirable features. A shoulder stock diminishes the convenience and provides very limited increased effectiveness.

This. Though I disagree a bit on that last point; in the hands of your typical pistol user, a shoulder stock has the potential to double or triple the effective range of the pistol. Last time I played around with a detachable shoulder stock for a pistol, I was with a group of folks who generally considered 5 shots in a 12-inch circle at 10 yards to be acceptable accuracy. 25 yards was good for 50% hits on a torso target. (There were a couple of 1911 guys who thought differently, but I digress.) When the 12-inch-group guys tried a Glock 17 with prototype clip-in shoulder stock, their 10-yard groups shrank to 3-4" and they were all making 100% hits in the A zone at 25 yards.

That was a while back, and it's been quite a while since I considered 12"@10y an acceptable accuracy standard... but judging from what I see at the range week after week, that's your average pistol shooter.

pistol-forum.com: you'll show up for the topics, but stay for the thread tangents...

[TR675]

I do hope that the folks playing around with shoulder stocks for their pistols are paying attention to all applicable federal laws and regulations regarding the making and registration of short barrelled rifles...

[zeleny]

Re: "twice as economically effective," I would argue that had less to do with shoulder-stocked pistols - which I seriously doubt were distributed en masse to front line infantry shock troops, but I digress - and more to do with abhorrently stupid tactics on the part of the Allies and the fact that they were trying to dislodge the Germans from French soil...

Their iconic status doesn't mean much to me, either; the 1911 is iconic too, but replacing it with .38 S&W Victory models wouldn't have changed the outcome of the war one bit.It remains that German military command, especially good at maximizing the damage to its adversaries within its budget, chose to spend a lot of money and effort on procuring and issuing shoulder stocked pistols--and indeed to front line troops, on which see previously referenced study by Mauro Baudino. Likewise the Russians and the Chinese, who had no end of experience at all sorts of wartime killing. And if the historical argument fails to to persuade you, consider acquiring some hands-on experience with the C96 and LP08, two of very few shoulder stocked pistols exempt from the provisions of 1934 NFA. All I am saying is that the option of converting a pistol to a carbine is a good thing to have.

[zeleny]

Though I disagree a bit on that last point; in the hands of your typical pistol user, a shoulder stock has the potential to double or triple the effective range of the pistol. Last time I played around with a detachable shoulder stock for a pistol, I was with a group of folks who generally considered 5 shots in a 12-inch circle at 10 yards to be acceptable accuracy. 25 yards was good for 50% hits on a torso target. (There were a couple of 1911 guys who thought differently, but I digress.) When the 12-inch-group guys tried a Glock 17 with prototype clip-in shoulder stock, their 10-yard groups shrank to 3-4" and they were all making 100% hits in the A zone at 25 yards.This. Adding a shoulder stock to a pistol increases its hit probability fourfold. And the fixed barrel design of the Korth PRS enables this conversion within the scope of the 1934 NFA, with cartridges that gain over 30% in muzzle energy in carbine-length barrels (http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html).

[JodyH]

But it's still a poor substitute for an actual carbine, especially when it's chambered in .45acp .
Instead of carrying around a pistol, an extra barrel and a detachable stock, I'd rather have two functional firearms.

[zeleny]

But it's still a poor substitute for an actual carbine, especially when it's chambered in .45acp .
Instead of carrying around a pistol, an extra barrel and a detachable stock, I'd rather have two functional firearms.I'd rather have a rifle to begin with, but sometimes that is not an option, unlike an extra barrel and a detachable stock. And with a tax stamp, you can forgo the extra barrel.

[TR675]

I'd rather have a rifle to begin with, but sometimes that is not an option, unlike an extra barrel and a detachable stock.

When would you carry around this pistol, separate shoulder stock, and spare barrel but not a rifle? :confused:

I don't think that anyone here is going to disagree that the Korth, shoulder stock, et cetera would be a neat thing to have. Likewise, if you really want one and have the scratch to do it, I doubt anyone will tell you not to knock yourself out.

You're never going to convince anyone that it is better than a rifle and service pistol combo...even if the price were the same.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

The only non-smg pistol caliber carbine that's ever seemed remotely worthwhile to me is a Glock 20 with a snap-on stock.

$200, no tools, more range easier.

Never interested me enough to buy one, even though there's no legal issues with throwing a stock on a pistol here.

But I played with one once and it was kind of cool.

[zeleny]

When would you carry around this pistol, separate shoulder stock, and spare barrel but not a rifle? :confused:

I don't think that anyone here is going to disagree that the Korth, shoulder stock, et cetera would be a neat thing to have. Likewise, if you really want one and have the scratch to do it, I doubt anyone will tell you not to knock yourself out.

You're never going to convince anyone that it is better than a rifle and service pistol combo...even if the price were the same.I have around $3K in my LRB M25 in a JAE-100 Gen 3 stock, not counting the Aimpoint T1 and Schmidt & Bender PMII. The money is not an issue, but the weight and bulk of the kit is another matter. In many settings, I would be better served with Magnum class pistol ballistics in a lightweight package shootable to 1 MOA. The Korth PRS has the potential to fit this part.

[zeleny]

The only non-smg pistol caliber carbine that's ever seemed remotely worthwhile to me is a Glock 20 with a snap-on stock.

$200, no tools, more range easier.

Never interested me enough to buy one, even though there's no legal issues with throwing a stock on a pistol here.

But I played with one once and it was kind of cool.The real advantage is realized when you carry a pistol for protection. In many cases it's a lot easier to multiply your effective range and hit probability with a compact accessory weighing less than a pound, than to lug around a spare carbine. Most of the times I'd rather shoot a rifle, but sometimes that's not an option.

[Joe in PNG]

I've put a few hundred rounds down range with a stocked Glock 18 (did a job for the range owner and was paid with a case of Wolf 9mm). Fun? Yes.

But once again, while a stocked pistol is more accurate than a non stocked pistol, it is still less accurate than a carbine.
Lots of folks like to have both with them at the same time.

And ponder the fate of the Stoner 63. Modular weapons systems seem neat in the abstract, but they are often a pain in the neck. You can wind up with a gun that does nothing really well, and has a lot of bits that need to be stored someplace.

[Byron]

I have around $3K in my LRB M25 in a JAE-100 Gen 3 stock, not counting the Aimpoint T1 and Schmidt & Bender PMII. The money is not an issue, but the weight and bulk of the kit is another matter. In many settings, I would be better served with Magnum class pistol ballistics in a lightweight package shootable to 1 MOA. The Korth PRS has the potential to fit this part.

The real advantage is realized when you carry a pistol for protection. In many cases it's a lot easier to multiply your effective range and hit probability with a compact accessory weighing less than a pound, than to lug around a spare carbine. Most of the times I'd rather shoot a rifle, but sometimes that's not an option.
It seems that you don't usually have a problem lugging around heavy/bulky kit (http://www.almanacnews.com/news/2012/02/09/man-with-semi-automatic-weapon-protests-at-hotel)... though I guess not all missions require that much kit.

I could see how for a smaller demonstration, you might want to conserve weight while multiplying your effective range and hit probability. When you come up with a quickddraw holster for the carbine-length Korth barrel, please be sure to show us.

The money is not an issue, but let me mention it anyway. Ha!

[JodyH]

When would you carry around this pistol, separate shoulder stock, and spare barrel but not a rifle? :confused:

I don't think that anyone here is going to disagree that the Korth, shoulder stock, et cetera would be a neat thing to have. Likewise, if you really want one and have the scratch to do it, I doubt anyone will tell you not to knock yourself out.

You're never going to convince anyone that it is better than a rifle and service pistol combo...even if the price were the same.
I just cannot picture a situation where I'd need to convert my handgun to a carbine and not only have the time to switch around all the parts but during that time my only firearm is unusable.
Active shooter at the mall? Would I really want to take my only firearm apart on the food court floor and start swapping out barrels and affixing the stock?
Or would I be better served by pulling something like a folding stock B&T TP9 (http://www.bt-ag.ch/en/manufacturing/firearms/tp9_carbine.php?navanchor=2110052) out of my backpack while keeping my handgun in one piece?
:confused:

[TR675]

It seems that you don't usually have a problem lugging around heavy/bulky kit (http://www.almanacnews.com/news/2012/02/09/man-with-semi-automatic-weapon-protests-at-hotel)... though I guess not all missions require that much kit.

Remind me to never piss you off.

[1slow]

JodyH, I agree with not rearranging your pistol .
Every serious combat infantryman I have met would rather fight with a military grade tested rifle than a pistol or pistol caliber carbine. Rifles have more terminal effect usually. We use a pistol , like a pocket knife, for convenience not because it is the best tool for a fight.
Europeans seem to do a lot of conversions, something to do with their firearms laws.

[zeleny]

I've put a few hundred rounds down range with a stocked Glock 18 (did a job for the range owner and was paid with a case of Wolf 9mm). Fun? Yes.

But once again, while a stocked pistol is more accurate than a non stocked pistol, it is still less accurate than a carbine.
Lots of folks like to have both with them at the same time.

And ponder the fate of the Stoner 63. Modular weapons systems seem neat in the abstract, but they are often a pain in the neck. You can wind up with a gun that does nothing really well, and has a lot of bits that need to be stored someplace.Korth's PRS will stand or fall on its merits as a handgun. Its suitability for SBR conversion is a collateral advantage. Still, it's better to have and not need than to need and not have.

[zeleny]

Remind me to never piss you off.Not a chance. I bear grudges professionally, which entails shrugging off impotent offenses.

[TR675]

Thanks, but I was talking to Byron. Dude has some research skills. Wouldn't want him to get too interested in me.

[Tamara]

This forum really needs a "Like" button.

[zeleny]

Thanks, but I was talking to Byron. Dude has some research skills. Wouldn't want him to get too interested in me.Some research skills indeed (https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+zeleny&oq=michael+zeleny). I hear NSA is looking for a sysadmin. Mad Google-fu will get you a leg up.

[JodyH]

Some research skills indeed (https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+zeleny&oq=michael+zeleny). I hear NSA is looking for a sysadmin. Mad Google-fu will get you a leg up.
Why is "Pedo-Bear" on the first page of the Google image search?

From your linked Google image search:
http://cheezburger.com/2774003968

[zeleny]

Why is "Pedo-Bear" on the first page of the Google image search?This is where we curtail topic drift. Click on the links at your own leisure.

[Greg Bell]

Well, thank God personal attacks are off-limits.

[TR675]

Mad Google-fu will get you a leg up.

I'm telling you, you need to respect his patience and attention to detail when it comes to investigating folks who intrigue him.

You've been warned. :cool:

[LittleLebowski]

We. Are. Now. Back. On. Topic.

[zeleny]

Well, thank God personal attacks are off-limits.https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qwllO8uQEm4/Ussz7QyfUcI/AAAAAAAAJYI/gWGfke7ecqQ/w404-h562-no/animal+farm.jpg

[zeleny]

I'm telling you, you need to respect his patience and attention to detail when it comes to investigating folks who intrigue him.

You've been warned. :cool:I have two FBI Special Agents buying me bacon and eggs. What's your comrade's proposed contribution?

[ToddG]

This thread is now closed.

The next time a Staff member says "no personal attacks" and/or "get back on topic" we'll simply start banning people who think they're too cool or too important to comply.