USP Platform

[Nik the Greek]

I was just curious: what's the opinion of the USP platform in these parts? I've noticed a lot of people choosing the P30. Is that purely a consequence of the improved ergos and slightly improved capacity, or are there other reasons?

[ranburr]

The USP has a better trigger than the P30. Neither have a good trigger.

[gtmtnbiker98]

The P30 has improved ergo's and a pic rail as compared to the proprietary USP rail. The USP does have a better trigger.

[F-Trooper05]

As someone whose owned several USP's in the past, I personally don't think that they offer much of anything over the P30. The P30 is less top-heavy, MUCH thinner, has ambi controls, pic rail, modular grips, better mag release, and the list goes on. Yes, the trigger is a little better on the USP, but in my opinion you're giving up a lot for that one little improvement.

[jbl02a]

I really enjoy my USP. I have the Compact 9mm and love everything about it. Also have a Glock 22, Springfield XD .45, and a Baby Eagle .40. The USP is hands down my go-to gun out of the bunch. I haven't shot the P30, and it may offer some additional features, but I would always recommend my USPc if a friend asked how I felt about it.

[Dagga Boy]

I have had exceptional luck with my personal USPs as well as supporting the system as our issued SWAT guns from the time they were released to present day. While I love the USP's and still have several, the HK45, 45C and P30's are essentially a product improved version of the USP's. I like the HK45C's and they are currently my go to 45 ACP service pistol. I would not hesitate to carry a USP, but given the choice, I'll take the newer variants. One are that is lacking in the newer guns is not having a true Match type trigger available like I have in my USP Expert 45.

[MDS]

Since my main value on this forum is to bring a thoughtful newbie opinion, here it is: I carried a V1 USP45C for a couple of years and loved it. Then I "got serious," did a whole lot of homework, and switched to a G19. I shoot the USP every once in a while, mostly to double-check that I'm not getting lazy with my grip. Almost immediately after getting used to the Glock, I could no longer stand the USP - the grip contour is even more brick-like than the Glock; the grip angle makes it feel like a brick-handled hammer which I'm convinced makes the muzzle flip even worse; and don't even get me started on the V1 DA/SA trigger. To be fair, I've recently switched it to LEM just to see what it's like, and it is a lot better in dry fire. I'll need some live trigger time behind the LEM to assess it.

Maybe it's just that the Glock is easier for this noob to shoot, and if I had more skills and experience I would have a different opinion. But at this point, I fully expect my ~1K stash of 45ACP to last me a couple of years at least.

[orionz06]

I loved my USP when I had it, but the biggest factor to me that made it easy to dump was the fact that my USP compact had a grip just as large as my M&P and only had 13 rounds. Not that capacity is king, but I would surely appreciate the size the comes with a reduced capacity gun.

[ToddG]

I actually prefer the P30/P2000 series LEM trigger to the HK45/USP series LEM. While the P30 has a longer reset, the break is smoother. The difference between the two is negligible enough that I would allow other factors -- ergonomics, availability of desired aftermarket sights and holsters, etc. -- be the deciding factor long before I got worried about the trigger pull.

[Dagga Boy]

Since my main value on this forum is to bring a thoughtful newbie opinion, here it is: I carried a V1 USP45C for a couple of years and loved it. Then I "got serious," did a whole lot of homework, and switched to a G19. I shoot the USP every once in a while, mostly to double-check that I'm not getting lazy with my grip. Almost immediately after getting used to the Glock, I could no longer stand the USP - the grip contour is even more brick-like than the Glock; the grip angle makes it feel like a brick-handled hammer which I'm convinced makes the muzzle flip even worse; and don't even get me started on the V1 DA/SA trigger. To be fair, I've recently switched it to LEM just to see what it's like, and it is a lot better in dry fire. I'll need some live trigger time behind the LEM to assess it.

Maybe it's just that the Glock is easier for this noob to shoot, and if I had more skills and experience I would have a different opinion. But at this point, I fully expect my ~1K stash of 45ACP to last me a couple of years at least.

A basic fact in my world is that I SHOOT a Glock 9mm better than any other gun-period. The issue becomes that this is not just about shooting. I prefer carrying and many of the characteristics of the HK45C over the Glock.......I just don't shoot it as well. The reality is that for those of us who are armed most of our lives, there are other factors that are more relevent than how well we shoot a particular gun. If you are a competitive shooter, recreational shooter, or some other facet that is all about "shooting", by all means the gun you shoot the best should be what you are fully vested in. If you are more interested in living armed, a purely interested in fighting with a firearm, then other factors will sometimes be more important than shooting characteristics. As much crap as I have been in, I have shot FAR fewer people than I have taken prisoner. I have searched far more buildings and vehicles in all sorts of less than optimal conditions than I have had to shoot, I have had to physically fight with people, fought to keep someone from taking my gun, than actually firing it. I have had to use a firearm in conjunction with a flashlight or other mechanical object far more than shooting it with a flashlight. This list could continue on. Here is the reality when it comes to fighting with guns vs. shooting with guns. When your are fighting with them, the "shooting" part is a very small percentage of solving the problem. Because it is a small portion of the whole problem, at that point the differences between how a Glock shoots vs. how a USP shoots is quite small.

[MDS]

Because it is a small portion of the whole problem, at that point the differences between how a Glock shoots vs. how a USP shoots is quite small.

No doubt! I said "easier to shoot" but I meant that the G19 fits all of my needs better than the USP. I'm very much still in the process of figuring this out, but here's my thinking.

Near as I can tell, the universal requirement for a serious use gun, besides shooting well, is that it has to be reliable - even after a beating, a soaking, or a few thousand rounds with no maintenance other than the occasional lube. I would think that's fairly non-negotiable in most common use cases.

In my particular case, there are also a couple of other requirements. Because I CCW, it also needs to conceal well and carry comfortably, though that's as much a function of holster, belt and clothes as it is of the gun. And because I'm a noob and still heavily experimenting, it also needs lots of aftermarket support so I can easily try lots of different sights, holsters, triggers, training tools, and other addenda. (Somehow I'm sure I'll look at all that crap one day and grimace, but right now it's a real learning experience.) At the same time, I'd like for the gun to stay out of my way so I can forget about it and focus on software. Finally, I definitely want 9mm so I can buy a case of ammo every month and not piss of my CFO. I already had a USP, believe me, I wanted to keep it as my main gun. But a G19 fits my needs sooo much better. Oh, and I also shoot it better. :cool:

Again, though, that's just me and where I am today. I'd be very interested to learn how other guns are a better fit for other people's real-world needs. You mention taking prisoners, searching buildings and vehicles, physically fighting people, retention, and using the gun with a flashlight or other mechanical object. Maybe it's obvious to someone with more experience, but could you elaborate a little bit on how a HK45C is better for you in those situations?

(I just reread the above and realize it might sound like I'm being combative - please believe I'm only curious to learn more!)

[Kyle Reese]

I was just curious: what's the opinion of the USP platform in these parts? I've noticed a lot of people choosing the P30. Is that purely a consequence of the improved ergos and slightly improved capacity, or are there other reasons?

The USP is a serviceable and durable platform. It does lack in ergonomics, and has largely been supplanted by the P30 / HK45 series of handguns. In terms of pure ergonomics, the P30 wins hands down over any member of the USP line.

[Dagga Boy]

No doubt! I said "easier to shoot" but I meant that the G19 fits all of my needs better than the USP. I'm very much still in the process of figuring this out, but here's my thinking.

Near as I can tell, the universal requirement for a serious use gun, besides shooting well, is that it has to be reliable - even after a beating, a soaking, or a few thousand rounds with no maintenance other than the occasional lube. I would think that's fairly non-negotiable in most common use cases.

In my particular case, there are also a couple of other requirements. Because I CCW, it also needs to conceal well and carry comfortably, though that's as much a function of holster, belt and clothes as it is of the gun. And because I'm a noob and still heavily experimenting, it also needs lots of aftermarket support so I can easily try lots of different sights, holsters, triggers, training tools, and other addenda. (Somehow I'm sure I'll look at all that crap one day and grimace, but right now it's a real learning experience.) At the same time, I'd like for the gun to stay out of my way so I can forget about it and focus on software. Finally, I definitely want 9mm so I can buy a case of ammo every month and not piss of my CFO. I already had a USP, believe me, I wanted to keep it as my main gun. But a G19 fits my needs sooo much better. Oh, and I also shoot it better. :cool:

Again, though, that's just me and where I am today. I'd be very interested to learn how other guns are a better fit for other people's real-world needs. You mention taking prisoners, searching buildings and vehicles, physically fighting people, retention, and using the gun with a flashlight or other mechanical object. Maybe it's obvious to someone with more experience, but could you elaborate a little bit on how a HK45C is better for you in those situations?

(I just reread the above and realize it might sound like I'm being combative - please believe I'm only curious to learn more!)

What is nice about this forum, is that I knew you were not being combative.

I am currently carrying a G-19 daily. I am not working due to being a 24/7 single parent, so the Glock is good for me right now (for many of the same reasons you have). With that said, I carried a HK45C on the last detail I worked. I needed a pistol where certain safety features were a priority over shootability. DA triggers tend to have some benefits when dealing with some stressful situations for those who have less than stellar trigger finger discipline. I am very trigger finger position disciplined, many are not. This is especially true for those who have not been exposed to a lot of stress and fear on a regular basis. The biggest feature I like about the 45C is the safety. I can activate the safety while chambering a round (which you can't with most 1911's) or performing a loaded chamber verification. In a fight for the gun, I can also activate the safety, or to cock it into single action for a long range or precision shot. I like an exposed hammer, especially with AIWB carry. The ability to use my trigger finger for releasing magazines is a big positive for me (works much better than my thumb). The 45C has fully ambi controls for reloads if the strong hand is injured. You don't have to pull the trigger for dis-assembly. As far as reliability, i do not have nearly the round counts through the HK's as I do with the Glock platform (I have three G-17's that all have over 50,000 rounds that I have fired through them with total reliability), but so far the HK's have been totally reliable.

Another issue is living in a highly restrictive state. Another big factor in carrying the HK45C was the fact that it is incapable of carrying a more than 10 round magazine. Working in Los Angeles county, I did not want to have a magazine issue. I can carry and use high caps in conjunction with my HR 218 LEOSA I.D., but I didn't want to push the system in L.A. because I was using the 45C as a working gun for a private protection detail that had its own licensing requirements well outside of my prior work related CCW.

The point of this is that if the G-19 is the best thing for you and your needs, then it should be your primary. In my case, different needs and scenarios will dictate different guns. I find that I actually like carrying the HK45C better than the Glock, but the Glock fits my needs better these days as well. I always caution that I find that you really need to be focused on safety and what you are doing when carrying and using a Glock.

I go through an internal battle every couple of months over which of my two chosen service pistols (9mm Glock, or HK45C) should be my primary. They both have great characteristics, but are very different guns. I told Pat Rogers recently during a phone call that I am at a place in life where the reality is that I am very unlikely to be in a shooting, so I like the HK45C because I like everything about except that I don't shoot it as "efficiently" as a Glock. Even though I don't think I would do as well with my 45C's in a shooting class or training program as I do with a Glock 9mm, I have no doubt that I could do just fine in a street shooting with it if needed.

Hopefully, that helps.

[MDS]

Hopefully, that helps.

Awesome, it helps a lot. Thanks!