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Matt O
06-01-2011, 09:31 PM
The topic of how one would respond to a theoretical home invasion seems to be pretty popular across internet gun forums, popping up every couple months or so. Discussion is often centered around exactly which weapon would be best to clear your house with, whether or not it is a good idea to clear your house by yourself, etc etc.

While that's helpful (to a degree), I think it's also important to look at what steps everyone is or should be taking to either discourage break-ins or prevent them, rather than just how one would react once a burglar is already in your home.

This question has been burning in my mind since yesterday evening when I got a call from a good friend of mine in Salt Lake who told me his home was broken into yesterday, with all of his electronics and musical instruments stolen, as well most of his guns (they were in locked plastic cases underneath his bed apparently) and his wife's jewelry. The burglary happened during the afternoon while no one was home and the police don't seem to have a ton of leads (aside from canvassing pawn shops). The kicker is, my wife and I were staying with them there at that apartment one week ago yesterday while I was in SLC on a business trip.

I don't have the full picture of how they got in, but it's made me wonder whether or not the people that did this had been scoping my friends place and for how long. We had gone shooting while I was there so, were they watching us carry stuff to and from the car? I didn't notice anyone while I was there and the area seemed like a pretty safe neighborhood, but then again...never assume, right? It's also made me wonder what would have happened if my friend's wife was there alone at the time?

Overall, what happened really sucks and I'm just grateful neither my friend nor his wife were hurt. This has also definitely been a wake-up call for me in terms preparing for this sort of event a bit more holistically. As such, I wanted to see what sort of steps you guys are taking or have taken to prevent this, as well as whether any of our resident LE's might share some of their perspective as well.


For example, what have you guys done to reinforce or "burglar-proof" your home?

Are you relying on alarms, dogs, or both?

Do you actually carry while at home? (I honestly always thought this was a bit over the top but now...who knows)

Are your guns stored in locked gun cabinets or gun vaults?

For those of us without garages, do you have a more discreet method of carrying long guns to and from the car?

Jay Cunningham
06-01-2011, 09:36 PM
My friends over at Practical Firearms Training (http://practicalfirearmstraining.com/) have a very comprehensive list covering these questions:

PFT's Personal Security Awareness Checklist (http://practicalfirearmstraining.com/Reading/Personal-Security-Checklist.cfm)

Pennzoil
06-01-2011, 11:03 PM
My friends over at Practical Firearms Training (http://practicalfirearmstraining.com/) have a very comprehensive list covering these questions:

PFT's Personal Security Awareness Checklist (http://practicalfirearmstraining.com/Reading/Personal-Security-Checklist.cfm)

Man that's a good list I'm going to share it with friends and family.

Something else to maybe think about is to either zip tie or wire tie your emergency garage door release and you can also remove the handle just leaving the rope. Criminals put a wedge in upper garage door weather striping and use a hook to release the garage door if it's like most the releases it will be close to the garage door when the garage door is closed. If you pull straight down with force you will break zip tie if needed. Some people don't lock their door to the garage assuming it's safe do to the garage door being closed.

Also investing in locks that can't be bump keyed.

YVK
06-02-2011, 12:56 AM
I've done just about everything that is on Jay's list.

For example, what have you guys done to reinforce or "burglar-proof" your home?

Number of things, such as high-security locks, etc

Are you relying on alarms, dogs, or both?

Alarm, but one day I'll have a four-legged friend too. Even stickers and signs that house is monitored are deterrents.

Do you actually carry while at home? (I honestly always thought this was a bit over the top but now...who knows)

Absolutely

Are your guns stored in locked gun cabinets or gun vaults?

Gun safes.

For those of us without garages, do you have a more discreet method of carrying long guns to and from the car?

Depends on a long gun. There is a number of discreet options. One Source Tactical used to make a bag that would easily pass for snowboard/skateboard carrier. BFG has this in un-tactical colors http://www.blueforcegear.com/products/Denied-Area-Pattern%E2%84%A2-Discreet-Case-35.html. Items with folding stocks like SCAR, or SBRs fit well into tennis bags.

Shellback
06-02-2011, 12:58 AM
Start with a big mean dog ;) A few things I would recommend would be electronic countermeasures such as alarm systems and the different types of monitoring, CCTV (Closed Circuit Television), for outside/inside monitoring, and their recording sources.

Some other options include high security locks/deadbolts, utilizing a box strike, window security film, outside security lights, more resilient doors, safe rooms.

This (http://www.asafehome.net/index.html) is relatively inexpensive and appears to be a pretty good addition.

How about an iPhone home camera app? http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/texas-man-watches-home-burglary-iphone-wth-icam/story?id=11477014

Good locks http://www.medeco.com/

http://www.thenationallocksmith.com/public.asp?2

This guy is the best in the world when it comes to locks. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=marc+weber+tobias&aq=f&aqi=g6g-s1g2g-s1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CmobsocptTKPiOsuTtgecwsm_BgAAAKoEBU_QVpiU&cad=h

http://www.aceorangecounty.com/index.htm

Door lock info overload here: http://in.security.org/

Odin Bravo One
06-02-2011, 02:06 AM
. Some people don't lock their door to the garage assuming it's safe do to the garage door being closed.


I am one who does not lock the door leading to the garage. But it's not because I assume it is safe due to the garage door being closed. It is because if they have managed to get through the garage door, what do I really think is stopping them from getting in the house? A standard door lock? Deadbolt? They are now in the garage, and they have a ton of tools to choose from in which to gain access to the house through that door. It may be trivial, but if the house is burglarized, do I really want to add the headache of having to fix the door leading from the house to the garage too? Let's get real, there are very few residential doors in the US that cannot be opened with a properly placed boot.

Guns are all locked in the safe, which is bolted to the floor, which is inside a closet that you have to tear the door and frame off in which to get it out. I have the only key to the safe with me wherever I am, making the comination an irrelevant part of the equation. Keeping my guns out of the hands of nefarious individuals and/or groups is my only real concern in the case of a burglary.

The rest of it.......TV's, stereo, furniture, jewelry, motorcycle, etc. is just stuff. It can be replaced, and that is why we buy homeowners insurance.

Ed L
06-02-2011, 01:05 PM
I am one who does not lock the door leading to the garage. But it's not because I assume it is safe due to the garage door being closed. It is because if they have managed to get through the garage door, what do I really think is stopping them from getting in the house?.

Because locking the door to the garage garage door may buy you some time and force them to make noise that will alert you.

Also because locking the door to the garage costs nothing.

WDW
06-02-2011, 01:44 PM
I have a mote filled with ravenous, hungry Nile crocodiles surrounding my house. I also have a rabid weiner dog waiting inside for anyone dumb enough to try it. I really don't care if someone burglarizes me because I pay for insurance. If someone breaks in and tries to rob me though, I will defend myself. I carry in the home. TN has some really good laws concerning self defense in the home. Wouldn't you flee in terror if you saw this. Bad Guys, meet WEINER 1
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/10mm4me/weiner.jpg

Pennzoil
06-02-2011, 02:04 PM
Sean M I agree locking the garage door is minor speed bump but helps to buy time and forces them to make more noise. The garage door is the easiest and quietest way into most houses around me. The locked door to the garage is just to buy the family a little time and hopefully alert us. My German Sheppard locked me out once and it took me very little time to get past the dead bolt but I made a good amount of noise.

Reason I lock the door to the garage is because of something that happened to a house in my neighborhood years ago the criminals opened the garage door just far enough to roll under then walked right into the house while a guys wife was home alone. He came home (armed) as the people were rolling out from under the garage door with some items. Man was armed and resulted in a car chase while he called 911 and eventually the crooks were caught. Don't remember all the particulars but think wife was unharmed and didn't even know people were in the house until later.

If no one's home they can have at it as my safes are also bolted down to everything except the kitchen sink and family is really all I care about. Out here they are just coming through the wall now if no one is home to avoid alarm systems on windows/doors happened to my wifes friend 2 years ago.

KeeFus
06-02-2011, 02:32 PM
For example, what have you guys done to reinforce or "burglar-proof" your home?

Aside from dead-bolts and the marked patrol car out front...nothing. Several neighbors I either grew up with or they are LEO's.

Are you relying on alarms, dogs, or both?

3 dogs in the fenced back yard.

Do you actually carry while at home? (I honestly always thought this was a bit over the top but now...who knows)

Does a fat baby fart?!?!?! Heck yes!

Are your guns stored in locked gun cabinets or gun vaults?

The guns I dont use all that often are secured in a gun safe. Handguns I use are in a gun vault. If they get it theyve workd for it.

For those of us without garages, do you have a more discreet method of carrying long guns to and from the car?

I kinda live in 'Cop-Land' so...not saying it wont happen but I got plenty of back-up should the need arise.

LittleLebowski
06-02-2011, 07:05 PM
Belgian Malinois indoors at night.

ToddG
06-02-2011, 07:13 PM
Belgian Malinois indoors at night.

I have to admit, ever since adopting this technique we have had zero family members murdered in their sleep. Clearly, the dog is working.

Odin Bravo One
06-02-2011, 07:36 PM
I guess I was not very clear in my original post.........my apologies.

My not locking the door is the burglary scenario. They can take whatever they want when I am not home, so long as it is not the items in the safe. Or the safe itself either for that matter.

ford.304
06-03-2011, 10:46 AM
It really does seem like there isn't much you can reasonably do to to a normal house to stop a burglary. An alarm system *might* help, but it also might just send the local cops to your house at annoying times. I know our cats would probably set off most motion/noise detectors.

I'm sure that reinforced doors and bars on all the windows might make a difference... but most of us don't want to live like that...

I know my dad was happy he left his car unlocked a while ago. Someone robbed the neighbors, then went around breaking car windows and stealing the change out of them... his car was the only one on the street that wasn't damaged, and all he lost was $5 in quarters.

To me, the lock on the door and the big dog are just to buy enough time to wake up and grab some reloads.

jslaker
06-03-2011, 12:51 PM
I'm sure that reinforced doors and bars on all the windows might make a difference... but most of us don't want to live like that...

After his house was broken into, my father became somewhat obsessed with reinforced door frames and the like.

Given that there's an 8 foot wide bay window 10 feet to the right of the door that got kicked in, I never understood the point.

peterb
06-03-2011, 12:54 PM
In a nutshell, you want to deter potential intruders by making your home a less attractive target, detect them if they do try to break in, and delay their entry as long as possible. Those layers greatly improve the odds of successfully defending yourself.

Deterrence can be ensuring the appearance of occupancy, not flaunting high-value items, outside lighting, varied schedules, etc. Detection can be animals, alarms, cameras/peepholes, etc. Delaying tactics are good locks/doors/jambs and impact-resistant glazing.

I'd probably start with doors and jambs that would take more than a kick to breach.

Rverdi
06-03-2011, 08:54 PM
I honestly don't care if the house is broken in to while it's unoccupied. In my experience that's the way the vast majority of home intrusions occur and if someone gets by my good locks and alarm, they're going to find that virtually anything of value is in a safe that will require some perseverance to breach. Anything else they steal will be covered by homeowners insurance.
Of greater concern is the very small percentage of invaders who are looking to enter occupied homes. These people tend to be pretty high on the danger meter and while it's rare, if it happens it's likely to be ugly. I had an email conversation back and forth with a couple of friends not too long ago about the issue of being armed at home. I decide several years ago that the gun would come off when it's time for bed, which means I lounge around the house armed all the time. Occasionally it might be a j frame in the pocket of my shorts, but more likely the 226 I wear every day in a shaggy, but if someone kicks the door I'm not going to be in a position where I have to go running for my gun.
Those of us in the Northeast watched the recent trial in Connecticut of the two pieces of trash who crashed the back door of a doctors house, beat him, raped his daughters, and set the house on fire ultimately killing the wife and both daughters.
I can't imagine having the training and owning the tools to fight off that attack and having the tool locked where I can't access it.

turbolag23
06-03-2011, 09:13 PM
my girlfriend bugs me about why i carry in the house. i tell her similar stories like the one just mentioned. be it my jframe or glock i have something not too far away all times in the house. for the times when no one is home, if someone wants what you have bad enough they will get it regardless of things you do to slow them down.

John Hearne
06-04-2011, 01:45 PM
The best book I've found on this topic is the Jim Grover/Kelly McCann's Street Smarts, Firearms, and Personal Security.

John Ralston
06-04-2011, 02:04 PM
I decide several years ago that the gun would come off when it's time for bed, which means I lounge around the house armed all the time. Occasionally it might be a j frame in the pocket of my shorts, but more likely the 226 I wear every day in a shaggy, but if someone kicks the door I'm not going to be in a position where I have to go running for my gun.

I feel the same way, and consider my weapon a part of the wardrobe...it goes on and off with my pants.

Buckshot
06-05-2011, 08:06 PM
An adult niece who has become interested in her own security was visiting recently & realized I was carrying at home. She asked me if I always carry a gun - I told her "only when I'm awake". For a brief moment she appeared startled, then I could see in her face that she "got it". The firearm is only one of the layers, but in case of a forced entry, there's not time to retrieve one. It better be pre-located & easily accessible (not practical for most folks) or on the body.

CDS tactical
06-06-2011, 12:03 AM
Integrity counts.

JDM
06-06-2011, 08:19 AM
A home invasion is one of those statistically unlikely things that scare the living bejesus out of me. I couldn't imagine something more blood chilling than someone entering my home KNOWING that I was there.

With that in mind, its not a surprise that I'm very much in the "carry at home" camp. It's not uncomfortable. It's not obscene, no one can see it right? It seems natural to me.

Another thing that took me a long while to be comfortable with was what to do with my pistol while I was sleeping. The piece just laying on the nightstand just seemed...wrong. I'm a pretty light sleeper, and while really unlikely someone would be able to get into my house without rousing me, I didn't want to test that theory from the loud end of my own gun. I solved THIS quandary with a little clever thought, and an ALS holster from Safariland, which is now secured to the frame of my bed with stainless straps. My right hand falls naturally on the pistol when I'm laying on my stomach, and the draw is much like the draw from a closed front shirt. Plus the ALS thing.


As far as physical security? Gunsafe, dowels in the window tracks and sliding glass door tracks. Good dead bolts. My blinds are pretty much always drawn. I have good outdoor lighting and know my neighbors.

Pennzoil
06-06-2011, 03:57 PM
my girlfriend bugs me about why i carry in the house. i tell her similar stories like the one just mentioned.

Mine always put up with me carrying all the time over the years and family planning like for fires or home invasion. This new decoration last year on the sidewalk in front of our house has helped open her mind a bit.

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/4930/frontyard.jpg

Nothing like standing out in your front yard in the morning with a bottle of bleach and water hose after the cops leave washing this off your sidewalk while the neighbors ride by on bikes with their kids.

JDM
06-06-2011, 04:07 PM
Mine always put up with me carrying all the time over the years and family planning like for fires or home invasion. This new decoration last year on the sidewalk in front of our house has helped open her mind a bit.

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/4930/frontyard.jpg

Nothing like standing out in your front yard in the morning with a bottle of bleach and water hose after the cops leave washing this off your sidewalk while the neighbors ride by on bikes with their kids.

Damn.

What happened?

SmokeJumper
06-06-2011, 04:18 PM
My friends over at Practical Firearms Training (http://practicalfirearmstraining.com/) have a very comprehensive list covering these questions:

PFT's Personal Security Awareness Checklist (http://practicalfirearmstraining.com/Reading/Personal-Security-Checklist.cfm)

Excellent, simple and to the point with room for modification based on the end user's needs. I just printed this out and will be distributing this as a briefing topic for preventative measures on the home front. Thanks for posting this list/link.

Pennzoil
06-06-2011, 04:41 PM
Damn.

What happened?

I was uninvolved and still an open case so I don't really have a lot of details. Police had some ideas and were really cool guys talking about reloading / building AR's as they collected evidence. The one said as he walked up if you don't have a gun/CCW get one because AZ is going to shit. I had my Glock 19 and a reload on me but wasn't going to volunteer that info unless he asked just mentioned I had a CCW. It helps reinforce that if I ever actually did yard work I could possibly be at risk:p.

We've had bad luck as a whole since moving to Arizona. I was downstairs just after having the house built making coffee and turned around to be looking back directly at a guy on my back patio. He started to run and my German Sheppard made it outside almost getting him before he got over the wall. If he was serious I would of had no time to acquire a firearm if I didn't already have it on me.

sean11112222
06-11-2011, 02:30 PM
Astroturfing is not allowed. G/S

TGS
06-12-2011, 12:39 AM
Was that another CDS plug, GS?

Kyle Reese
06-12-2011, 08:23 AM
Was that another CDS plug, GS?

Nope- someone else.

Geezer Squid
06-12-2011, 12:05 PM
I have a mote filled with ravenous, hungry Nile crocodiles surrounding my house. I also have a rabid weiner dog waiting inside for anyone dumb enough to try it. I really don't care if someone burglarizes me because I pay for insurance. If someone breaks in and tries to rob me though, I will defend myself. I carry in the home. TN has some really good laws concerning self defense in the home. Wouldn't you flee in terror if you saw this. Bad Guys, meet WEINER 1
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/10mm4me/weiner.jpg

We've had Dachshunds in our house since "forever" and firmly believe in the "Death Below the Ankles" creed.

LittleLebowski
06-12-2011, 12:15 PM
Active, patrolling countermeasures.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/fbad8576.jpg

Kyle Reese
06-12-2011, 12:16 PM
Active, patrolling countermeasures.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/fbad8576.jpg

Nacho attacks!

wrmettler
06-21-2011, 07:03 PM
This may sound silly, but I would assume that the family dog, regardless of the extent of its training will eventually - well - become a member of the family. Won't Your emotional attachment with the dog influence the manner in which you decide to protect yourself or your family? Won't you try to protect the dog as well as everybody else, and can't that lead to an unexpected or avoidable exposure that would otherwise not be involved in a self defense situation?

Wouldn't one of the better methods of protecting one's house be to install a light in each room that is on a closed circuit with a on/off switch by your bed. If you hear noise in the night, flip the switch and a bright light goes on in every room, including the garage, patio and outside perimeter of the house. This could even be supplemented by a mini-cam that is set to go on at the same time.

LittleLebowski
06-21-2011, 08:13 PM
Hell, no. The dog is an animal. My family comes first. I love my dog but he's a dog. I'm not fighting my way to rescue him.

Your proposed solution is electricity dependent.



This may sound silly, but I would assume that the family dog, regardless of the extent of its training will eventually - well - become a member of the family. Won't Your emotional attachment with the dog influence the manner in which you decide to protect yourself or your family? Won't you try to protect the dog as well as everybody else, and can't that lead to an unexpected or avoidable exposure that would otherwise not be involved in a self defense situation?

Wouldn't one of the better methods of protecting one's house be to install a light in each room that is on a closed circuit with a on/off switch by your bed. If you hear noise in the night, flip the switch and a bright light goes on in every room, including the garage, patio and outside perimeter of the house. This could even be supplemented by a mini-cam that is set to go on at the same time.

TGS
06-21-2011, 08:22 PM
Your proposed solution is electricity dependent.

There are lighting systems available that can automatically switch between hardwiring and batteries, AFAIK. Unless you're scared of the burglars using an EMP to prep for entry, I think it's a non-issue.

Kyle Reese
06-21-2011, 08:24 PM
Hell, no. The dog is an animal. My family comes first. I love my dog but he's a dog. I'm not fighting my way to rescue him.

Your proposed solution is electricity dependent.

Nacho is the Chuck Norris of dogs. The bad guys don't get Nacho, the bad guys GET Nacho'd! :cool:

LittleLebowski
06-21-2011, 08:30 PM
There are lighting systems available that can automatically switch between hardwiring and batteries, AFAIK. Unless you're scared of the burglars using an EMP to prep for entry, I think it's a non-issue.

I'd rather KISS. Dog.

Matt O
06-21-2011, 09:02 PM
That's a pretty important "." after KISS ;)

I do agree though, I think in the end having a medium or large-sized dog, or better yet a pair, is one of the best home defense measures available.

TGS
06-21-2011, 09:06 PM
I'd rather KISS. Dog.

IMHO, a dog is just one part of the equation.

In October, 2 obviously stoned-out-of-their-mind miscreants were stalking my sister. Argus(family pooch) still had to go for his walks, though. One day they decided to park the car and get out, and moved with a purpose towards both my mother and sister as they were walking Argus.

Argus is a rottweiler. That didn't deter them. What did is my mom and sister both pulling out a combo of pepperspray and a stun gun(yes, illegal in NJ. F' that). I guess at that point they figured between a rottie and 2 pissed off women who mean business with tools at their disposal, they were at a disadvantage and got back in their car.

2 weeks later they tried breaking into the house, but Argus was able to scare them off. Fortunately our neighbor's sister was a detective with Trenton PD and obviously pulled some strings, because in the midst of a 160 officer lay-off we had 2 cruisers in Franklin Park for most of the day, for a few weeks.

Moral of the story is that I would try to incorporate as many passive and active countermeasures as possible, because some people don't give a shit, or as much of a shit, and will go farther than the average bandit. If a rottie bearing teeth alone isn't enough to deter them, my guess is they're some pretty heinous mofo's that are planning to do some cruel shit. Also, these lighting systems are pretty simple, and are definitely cheaper and simpler in the long run than training a working dog or being proficient with a pistol. I agree with you though that a dog is a fantastic tool, I don't think anyone is debating that.

Coyotesfan97
06-22-2011, 05:18 AM
Hell, no. The dog is an animal. My family comes first. I love my dog but he's a dog. I'm not fighting my way to rescue him.


From a K9 handler perspective a dog is ultimately a tool. You can replace a tool no matter how much you love it. He is there to save human lives. If he dies saving you he has done his job and has gone out with his boots on. It would suck and I'd mourn for my dog but thank him for saving me or loved ones.

ToddG
06-22-2011, 08:46 AM
From a K9 handler perspective a dog is ultimately a tool. You can replace a tool no matter how much you love it. He is there to save human lives. If he dies saving you he has done his job and has gone out with his boots on. It would suck and I'd mourn for my dog but thank him for saving me or loved ones.

You could say that about your best friend, too. LE/mil certainly watch their partners and teammates go into harm's way every day.

Having said that, I certainly fall deep into the "pet as family member" end of the spectrum. Do I send Freyja downstairs when she hears something? Hell yes. Will I use violence to protect her if she finds someone and that someone tries to hurt her? Hell yes.

LittleLebowski
06-22-2011, 09:09 AM
I don't think anyone mentioned training a working dog for home protection in this thread. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because it's my contention that having a dog indoors at night that barks and gives you enough time to arm yourself is better than motion detecting lights with battery backup and far more simple. Your viewpoint on lights versus pistol training is expressed on an odd choice of venue given this forum's focus.......

Seriously, you'd rather have lights and motion detectors versus pistol training and a dog?




IMHO, a dog is just one part of the equation.

In October, 2 obviously stoned-out-of-their-mind miscreants were stalking my sister. Argus(family pooch) still had to go for his walks, though. One day they decided to park the car and get out, and moved with a purpose towards both my mother and sister as they were walking Argus.

Argus is a rottweiler. That didn't deter them. What did is my mom and sister both pulling out a combo of pepperspray and a stun gun(yes, illegal in NJ. F' that). I guess at that point they figured between a rottie and 2 pissed off women who mean business with tools at their disposal, they were at a disadvantage and got back in their car.

2 weeks later they tried breaking into the house, but Argus was able to scare them off. Fortunately our neighbor's sister was a detective with Trenton PD and obviously pulled some strings, because in the midst of a 160 officer lay-off we had 2 cruisers in Franklin Park for most of the day, for a few weeks.

Moral of the story is that I would try to incorporate as many passive and active countermeasures as possible, because some people don't give a shit, or as much of a shit, and will go farther than the average bandit. If a rottie bearing teeth alone isn't enough to deter them, my guess is they're some pretty heinous mofo's that are planning to do some cruel shit. Also, these lighting systems are pretty simple, and are definitely cheaper and simpler in the long run than training a working dog or being proficient with a pistol. I agree with you though that a dog is a fantastic tool, I don't think anyone is debating that.

TGS
06-22-2011, 02:59 PM
I don't think anyone mentioned training a working dog for home protection in this thread. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because it's my contention that having a dog indoors at night that barks and gives you enough time to arm yourself is better than motion detecting lights with battery backup and far more simple. Your viewpoint on lights versus pistol training is expressed on an odd choice of venue given this forum's focus.......

Seriously, you'd rather have lights and motion detectors versus pistol training and a dog?

Nope.

I was stating that it's simply part of the whole equation. That's pretty much what I wrote verbatim, and throughout the whole spiel.

And yes, training to use a pistol is definitely more involved, complex and expensive that setting up some lighting. That was concerning your KISS philosophy(it is simple...you're already doing more complex things that involve continuous money and effort). I never stated anywhere in my post anything about it replacing a gun/training or a dog.

The part about training a dog....well....if a dog barks all night because it isn't obedient, then it barking when someone breaks in isn't going to help you much. A dog needs to be trained(I'm not talking about attack dog training, just basic obedience training) in order to be an asset, otherwise it's just a dog barking that doesn't give two shits about your well being. And that is DEFINITELY more expensive, time consuming and complex than installing motion sensor lights, or a master switch for your lights and a battery backup for critical lighting. So I'm just not getting the whole KISS idea when you're already doing two things that are infinitely more complex, not to mention time consuming and expensive than a simple passive safety measure to add(not replace) to the mix of tools in your bag.

LittleLebowski
06-22-2011, 03:06 PM
I've never had a problem with any of my dogs barking throughout the night so I call that "what iffing." My "basic obedience training" is done by myself and I have no problems, ask Todd about how my "home schooled" dog behaves. Sure, if the lights wake you up when a motion sensor detects movement, maybe they are more simple. Doesn't seem so to me. Especially for those of us with family in the house. A dog can detect and ignore family members by the way they walk or smell. An intelligent detection system that doesn't go off when someone gets up in the night.

TGS
06-22-2011, 03:12 PM
I've never had a problem with any of my dogs barking throughout the night so I call that "what iffing." My "basic obedience training" is done by myself and I have no problems, ask Todd about how my "home schooled" dog behaves. Sure, if the lights wake you up when a motion sensor detects movement, maybe they are more simple. Doesn't seem so to me. Especially for those of us with family in the house. A dog can detect and ignore family members by the way they walk or smell. An intelligent detection system that doesn't go off when someone gets up in the night.

Sorry if you took offense to that. I'm not calling you a bad owner or an idiot. There's a lot of people that don't know how to handle a dog, though, which is what I'm talking about. I'm sure you've heard at some point in your life, dogs that bark throughout the night, or bark at anyone that walks by on the sidewalk, ect.

LittleLebowski
06-22-2011, 03:15 PM
I'm not taking offense, just saying that's a "what if" situation that doesn't apply to me. Plus, I own a home on the West Coast and rent out here on top of not being a handyman type. Couple that with family members and having a dog seems much more simple. No work to do on a property that's not mine, no worrying about family members setting off the alarm in the middle of the night, etc.

peterb
06-22-2011, 04:10 PM
Having said that, I certainly fall deep into the "pet as family member" end of the spectrum. Do I send Freyja downstairs when she hears something? Hell yes. Will I use violence to protect her if she finds someone and that someone tries to hurt her? Hell yes.

But what will you risk to try to save her?

I've thought about this. If I awoke to hear our dog confronting someone downstairs -- barking, yelling, etc. -- and then a thud or a shot and silence, it'd tear my heart out. He's family. But I would try NOT to charge down the stairs to face an unknown threat. I'd barricade with the shotgun covering the stairs and wait. If my dog suffers buying me time to take a strong position, I shouldn't throw that advantage away.

ranburr
06-22-2011, 09:22 PM
I started with Rotties and now have a South African Boerboel. Both breeds have served me well. Calm, intelligent, dedicated, and more than willing to step up to the plate. Best home defense system that I know of, also a heck of a lot of fun to have around.

Coyotesfan97
06-23-2011, 05:25 PM
I just looked up Boerboels. Now that's a dog! They are HUGE.

I put my dog into buildings ahead of me and other guys almost very night. He is the point man for us searching for suspects but his secondary job is exposing a potential ambush.

Just some scenarios. I put him into a building and he disappears and doesn't respond to commands to return. It's a slow/deliberate search to find him and see if he's found something and we can't hear his barks. Or like my knucklehead has done before he pushed open a bathroom door and can't get out now.

He goes in and we start hearing barking, screaming, and fighting but no shots. Now we have to move into support him and help in the fight. Basically we are moving to the noise as tactically as me can but we are probably bypassing rooms and other secondary threats. Plus the courts have held the dog can't be on the bite too long.

He goes in and there are gunshots and he doesn't respond to commands. He has just saved us serious injury or death but as tough as it sounds we are securing the perimeter and waiting for the SWAT guys.

I guess that's a long way of saying it depends on what my dog has gotten into before I go in. In a HD situation like Todd posted I'd probably go see what's going on. For Peterbs scenario I'm staying at the top of the stairs

As a handler per the courts I'm not allowed to use deadly force to protect my police dog's life. I'd have to review the opinions but it basically comes down to the dog being looked at as property. But on the other hand if a suspect is pointing a gun at my dog he's probably pointing it in my direction too. Now my life is in danger and I'll deal with it appropriately.

BRBruce
07-09-2011, 05:29 AM
I've seem lots of people invest in alarm systems, guns, vaults etc. and totally skip the obvious things. Mind what you sit out on the street to be picked up. You can learn a lot about someone by their trash. Example, sitting the box your 82" plasma came out of on the curb, not a good idea. Don't advertise what you have. My Mom taught us this growing up. Break big boxes down into smaller pieces and put it out in a bag with trash or recycle.
People driving or walking past your house can see what you have in many ways. Open windows and doors, sure the breeze is nice on a cool evening but people can see more than you think. Don't be fooled by words like "gated", "master planned", "community", "guard" etc. Often times the people you need to worry about live within the same gates that you do.

Mjolnir
07-09-2011, 07:26 PM
I have to admit, ever since adopting this technique we have had zero family members murdered in their sleep. Clearly, the dog is working.

Post another pic, please!

May I add steel door case with SP8 bolts and a steel door with Medecco locks for all exterior doors and your bedroom door. Tint your windows to make it difficult to see inside your home.

WEAR YOUR PISTOLS!!

And if you are a dog person get a dog and train it.

grimel
07-10-2011, 01:31 AM
You could say that about your best friend, too. LE/mil certainly watch their partners and teammates go into harm's way every day.

Having said that, I certainly fall deep into the "pet as family member" end of the spectrum. Do I send Freyja downstairs when she hears something? Hell yes. Will I use violence to protect her if she finds someone and that someone tries to hurt her? Hell yes.

My dog's job is to bark and wake me up, then get with the rest of the family and let me deal with what ever comes through the door.

As for home breakins, make your house a harder target than the rest while not making it so hard it makes your house look like the grand prize.

texag
07-10-2011, 06:32 PM
My dog's job is to bark and wake me up, then get with the rest of the family and let me deal with what ever comes through the door.

As for home breakins, make your house a harder target than the rest while not making it so hard it makes your house look like the grand prize.

Same here. I've got a pit bull/corgi who stands 14" at the shoulder and weighs 50lbs. I'm sure he could do damage if riled up, but he's more liable to lick you to death than bite. He does have a big dog bark that he lets loose when someone is outside the door of my apartment. Despite being an uber friendly oaf he does tend to scare many of the people in my complex.

Now for the shameless doggy pics:

Lookin bad

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/TexAg10/Teddy/IMG_2687.jpg

He might be knee high, but he can still bite off faces (I'm 6' for reference)

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/TexAg10/Teddy/IMG_2656.jpg

MDS
07-13-2011, 12:55 AM
Why am I not surprised that no one on this thread has touted the #1 most popular home defense method? Ignoring the problem may be the ultimate in KISS, and there are plenty of stories about folks using this method who haven't been murdered in their sleep... ;)

More seriously, I think in any risk equation, the thing to understand is that you should spend mitigation efforts wherever the highest risk is. I think Sean M has it right for the property: solid, bolted-down safes for weapons and a few valuables, and insurance for the rest. For invasions while people are home, I've been thinking about that a lot more lately, what with the growing family. The house I live in now is laid out so that the sleeping quarters are clustered together as far as possible from the entrances. Once the Schnauzer alarm goes off, it would be easy to defend that end of the hall in case of a night-time invasion.

The scenario I worry about most is a daytime invasion when the wife is home with the kids. She knows where the gun is, and she can use it OK, but the situation would be dynamic and it would take some robust problem-solving skills, compared to hunkering down in the bedrooms. My #2 worry is some kind of encounter while she's out running errands or whatever. We talk about SA and avoiding dumb situations, but my HD priority right now is to get the wife some training and tools for those kinds of situations.

GJM
07-15-2011, 12:55 AM
1) this is a dog friendly forum, as we seem to be able to work photos of our dogs into a number of threads.

2) I read something on another forum -- not having drugs, or dealing drugs, is the number one thing you can do to avoid being the target of a home invasion. Perhaps less convenient, you could live where we have a remote cabin in Alaska, and I am tonight, only accessible by airplane or a boat.

Kyle Reese
07-15-2011, 01:43 AM
Perhaps less convenient, you could live where we have a remote cabin in Alaska, and I am tonight, only accessible by airplane or a boat.


Hmm..... You still have The Wendigo (http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Wendigo) rumored to haunt such remote places.... no worries though, I'm sure it's all made up. :o