Civilian G36

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http://i.imgur.com/Q1eInM1.jpg

Heckler & Koch has applied to the German government for permission to sell a new civilian-legal version of the H&K G36, one that is much truer to the original than the sporterized HK SLR. In Europe the gun will be called the HK243 and in the USA it will be marketed as the HK293.

http://i.imgur.com/U4LQTv0.jpg


The rifle is made with parts from the G36, but the bolt and the .223-chambered barrel design are unique. The reason for this is that gun companies in Germany cannot sell “weapons of war” to civilians. This gun has been sufficiently changed that it cannot be easily converted to a military-stye fully-automatic G36.

The rifle will feature a quad rail and a STANAG magazine well that accepts standard AR-15 magazine. Four different types of stocks will be offered, a short fixed stock, a long fixed stock (hunting/SLR style?) and two types of adjustable stocks.

There will be four different model (Compact, Kurz (Short), Sporter and Long) which vary by barrel length from 8.9″ – 18.8″. It is not clear if H&K actually plan on selling the shorter barrel (SBR) versions in the USA, or if they are just apply for approval in case they ever wish to in the future.


http://i.imgur.com/zPYAPli.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Etgcj4e.jpg

The compact (C) model will be classified as a handgun in Germany and so is the only version not legal for hunting.

Source: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/11/25/heckler-koch-hk243-hk293-civilian-g36

Rumor has it that the pricing won't be too bad, and that we won't have to wait for five years to buy it after seeing it at SHOT. Seems cool enough, but I personally would just stick with an AR and call it done these days. Now, if they had made a civi HK416A5, or if they make the compact version available here, I'll be far more interested.

[Tamara]

The charging handle on the G36 makes me even sadder than the one on the AR, a feat I didn't know was possible until German engineers managed to pull it off.

If someone can field a viable AR alternative closer to $1k than $2k, they'll make a mint, if only because Foreign Stuff is Foreigner and therefore Cooler in the mind of the average shooter.

[LOKNLOD]

Hey, it does look pretty cool. Height over bore be damned.

And it's been in a lot of Call of Rainbow: Duty Six games.

If they can get them on the market, they'll sell.

[Dagga Boy]

I love the G36C with the handle removed and Knights mounts for sights and an Aimpoint.

With that said....I am almost positive this will be a German or Euro only gun.

[Tamara]

I love the G36C with the handle removed and Knights mounts for sights and an Aimpoint.

But did you like it before it was cool? :p

[Dagga Boy]

I wrote one of the very first articles out there on the G36. If you check the Hardwired Tactical Shooting Facebook page there is a glory days picture of me in our helo with a G36C.

[littlejerry]

A g36c would be pretty neat.

But if I'm going to spend too much money on a German gun I'd far rather it be an MP5.

[Kyle Reese]

I look forward to seeing these on shelves, but have decided that if I'm going to depart from the AR platform, I'll simply pick up a SCAR 16.

It is nice to see these (hopefully) coming to the US market.

[Tamara]

I look forward to seeing these on shelves, but have decided that if I'm going to depart from the AR platform, I'll simply pick up a SCAR 16.

Much like when I switched from the 1911 to the M&P, it's only the cost of replacing all the plant that goes with the deal that's holding me back.

Buying a SCAR would be fiscally painful, but not the end of the world... it's buying two SCARS plus a .22 trainer that makes it just fantasy for me at the moment. :(

EDITED TO ADD: In effect, I have the same feelings the Army does, but on a much tinier scale. :D

[BLR]

I figure I need a couple.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[Tamara]

I figure I need a couple.

Your aversion to plastic seems highly selective. :p

[BLR]

Guilty.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[justintime]

I need one of these and a beretta nano that I can paint white in an Oblivion themed paint job to make my inner nerd happy.

[GardoneVT]

I need one of these and a beretta nano that I can paint white in an Oblivion themed paint job to make my inner nerd happy.

If Hunger Games 2 is a sign, FN Herstal bullpups painted white are the nerd guns to get.

[justintime]

If Hunger Games 2 is a sign, FN Herstal bullpups painted white are the nerd guns to get.

I've noted that most new futuristic themed movies are doing a white themed bullpup design along with a similarly themed pistol. I'm going to copy and start doing matches with them :p:o the tacticool crowed will disown me as I will lose at least a 1.2 million tactical sticker points on the bearded sticker board.

[Tamara]

I need one of these and a beretta nano that I can paint white in an Oblivion themed paint job to make my inner nerd happy.

Wouldn't the carbine need to be a Bushhamster ACR (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Oblivion#Harper.27s_Rifle_.28Bushmaster_ACR.29)?

(...and yes, all through the movie I was geeking out over recognizing the Magpul sling, too. :o )

[justintime]

That is true, but I think I would rather own one of these :D

[Josh Runkle]

Has there ever been a good civilain HK rifle? SL8, USC, mr556, etc...They're all awesome after you make a bunch of changes. I suspect this will be the same. It'll look like a G36, but it won't accept any standard mags, etc.

[Tamara]

Has there ever been a good civilain HK rifle?... I suspect this will be the same. It'll look like a G36, but it won't accept any standard mags, etc.

HK91/93/94?

As to the latter: "The rifle will feature ... a STANAG magazine well that accepts standard AR-15 magazine."

I'm sure HK is even less thrilled with the SL8's dismal market performance than I am with its price tag and lack of salability.

I'm not going to hold the .gov's asinine import requirements against the company, though; they basically had half their product line declared unsalable in the US at the stroke of GHWB's pen.

[Chuck Haggard]

HK91


In the 1980s those were the bomb.

[Josh Runkle]

HK91/93/94?

As to the latter: "The rifle will feature ... a STANAG magazine well that accepts standard AR-15 magazine."

I'm sure HK is even less thrilled with the SL8's dismal market performance than I am with its price tag and lack of salability.

I'm not going to hold the .gov's asinine import requirements against the company, though; they basically had half their product line declared unsalable in the US at the stroke of GHWB's pen.

Well, unfortunately HK94's are $5,000-6,000 last time I checked...While they're great rifles, they're not THAT great.

It would be amazing if when it is actually released it actually does take AR mags.

[Tamara]

In the 1980s those were the bomb.

I was a huge fangirl, but I finally sold mine back in '03 or '04.

Dear HK:

You will not go to hell if you put a last-round bolt hold-open on a long gun. Promise.
There is no legal requirement for the charging handle to be in a different area code than the shooter.

Love,
Tam

(Also, I took the collapsible meat tenderizer off the rifle the same day I put it on. The G3 may have the crappiest collapsible stock in the history of collapsible stocks, unless your hobbies include paying people to beat you.)

ETA: If you went back and told 2003 me, who had an HK91, M1A, Norinco underfolder, Daewoo DR200, and a Beretta AR70 all propped in the corner of her bedroom, that in ten years my go-to rifles would be a couple of 5.56 AR carbines, I'd have laughed and laughed and probably said something dumb.

[Al T.]

Shot a HK416. Yawn. Trigger sucked. Pass.

Here ya go justintime. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdJF09hltUw

[Chuck Haggard]

I was a huge fangirl, but I finally sold mine back in '03 or '04.

Dear HK:

You will not go to hell if you put a last-round bolt hold-open on a long gun. Promise.
There is no legal requirement for the charging handle to be in a different area code than the shooter.

Love,
Tam

(Also, I took the collapsible meat tenderizer off the rifle the same day I put it on. The G3 may have the crappiest collapsible stock in the history of collapsible stocks, unless your hobbies include paying people to beat you.)

ETA: If you went back and told 2003 me, who had an HK91, M1A, Norinco underfolder, Daewoo DR200, and a Beretta AR70 all propped in the corner of her bedroom, that in ten years my go-to rifles would be a couple of 5.56 AR carbines, I'd have laughed and laughed and probably said something dumb.



Yes, but then you would know how much money you coulda made off of all those guns.

[Tamara]

Yes, but then you would know how much money you coulda made off of all those guns.

Dude, I got out of them at the top of the market, before September of '04. :D

[Dagga Boy]

In the 1980s those were the bomb.

They are still the bomb. I had the first HK91K that RDTS ever did. It's now covered in paint and has the modern updates. Some day, a G3K will be mine!

[justintime]

Shot a HK416. Yawn. Trigger sucked. Pass.

Here ya go justintime. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdJF09hltUw

Not sure how I feel about my plan after that, but mine will be way cooler

[Tamara]

They are still the bomb. I had the first HK91K that RDTS ever did. It's now covered in paint and has the modern updates. Some day, a G3K will be mine!

Must... resist... but... can't... :D

1935

(As an aside, I'd probably still have the HK91 if it weren't for the way the lack of a bolt hold-open and the charging handle ergos gave me agita. It was a wonderful rifle for twenty rounds at a lick and that was only heightened when all those alloy G3 mags hit the market during the depths of the Ban Years. I was getting Bundeswehr mags for $3/ea in quantity from CTD when beat-up USGI AR mags were still commanding $20-$30 tariffs at fun shows...)

[Dagga Boy]

I ran the crap out of a 91 for a lot of years. You just had to get used to its manual of arms. Like many things, it's just different. The reality of speed loads on a rifle is simply that it's not a huge issue, and certainly less than we place on it. Military overseas stuff, maybe, but domestic use, I am not convinced. The other problem is that I have found the magazines of rifles without bolt hold open devices tend to be more reliable than those without.

[Tamara]

It's not that I thought the lack of a speed reload was going to get me killed in a gunfight with zombie mutant ninja grizzlies, it's just that I hated reaching out to the front sight and cranking on the charging handle with my pipe-cleaner arms every twenty shots.

I don't think it's a bad rifle and I don't think someone's wrong for preferring it, it's just that over the years, I fell out of love with it and started to prefer the ergos on the FAL for me, personally.

[Suvorov]

Ever since I was forced to part with my beloved Valmet 76 because Kalifornia named it as a gun that was just to evil for me to posse - I have longed to find another Coolguy Exotic Euro Rifle to take its place. This would be tempting but I'm sure I can no longer afford such extravagance.

[Tamara]

Ever since I was forced to part with my beloved Valmet 76 because Kalifornia named it as a gun that was just to evil for me to posse -

Man, California really is the enemy of all that is good and decent in the world. I'm sorry, dude. :(

[Dagga Boy]

It's not that I thought the lack of a speed reload was going to get me killed in a gunfight with zombie mutant ninja grizzlies, it's just that I hated reaching out to the front sight and cranking on the charging handle with my pipe-cleaner arms every twenty shots.

I don't think it's a bad rifle and I don't think someone's wrong for preferring it, it's just that over the years, I fell out of love with it and started to prefer the ergos on the FAL for me, personally.

I'll sell you my 50.63 FAL so I can get a G3k and some other Euro exotic. At least on the G3K that cocking handle is a little closer. I would also dig a really nice 51 conversion as well, but with the longer barrel. An 8 inch .308 is kind of stupid.

[Slavex]

I would be all over this thing if it hits our shores at a decent price and with a long enough barrel to be considered non restricted (stupid Canadian laws, don't ask me to explain them), as it would tons of fun in the bush. If it comes in a SBR setup and is restricted, that means range use only and I'll just run my Colt.

[Dagga Boy]

I would be all over this thing if it hits our shores at a decent price and with a long enough barrel to be considered non restricted (stupid Canadian laws, don't ask me to explain them), as it would tons of fun in the bush. If it comes in a SBR setup and is restricted, that means range use only and I'll just run my Colt.

Not that I am an expert at any level in Canadian gun laws, but I have a feeling you will see these LONG before they are in the U.S. From a business standpoint, I do not see HK getting burned again with the unpredictable gun laws here. They are geared up right now to make what they can here rifle wise, and the U.S. made pistols all fall under the magazine restrictions of a majority of states, which all makes sense for the long term.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

You could be right...we often get the weird stuff.

I might be interested if we can get them in a >18.5" format that does not include ridiculous height-over-bore rails. The KAC sight set looks appealing to me but I've never seen them in person. A low-mounted Aimpoint, cowitnessing irons and somewhere to stick a light on the front and I'm paying attention.

[Dagga Boy]

The KAC sight set is essentially a must have with the G36. The short rear rail one with an Aimpoint Micro is a really nice set up.

[GardoneVT]

Ever since I was forced to part with my beloved Valmet 76 because Kalifornia named it as a gun that was just to evil for me to posse - I have longed to find another Coolguy Exotic Euro Rifle to take its place. This would be tempting but I'm sure I can no longer afford such extravagance.

My condolences. :(

[jlw]

I've looked at the pictures for hours and can't figure out where the lever is and where the tube is for the ammo.

[Slavex]

didn't even look at the info graph, only the pictures. The 480mm barreled one would be perfect for Canada. Now reduce the scope mount height by making the charging handle fit flush to the side of the instead of inside and it would be even better. I'm sure someone will come out with a retrofit like they are for the T97s from China.

[Tamara]

From a business standpoint, I do not see HK getting burned again with the unpredictable gun laws here.

I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, they haven't forgotten or forgiven getting burned by the Bush/Bennett ban, but on the other, that's a big flippin' jug of honey in the middle of that bear trap. Enough reward can justify a pretty big risk.

[Al T.]

where the lever is and where the tube is for the ammo

Took me a moment. :D

[Dagga Boy]

I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, they haven't forgotten or forgiven getting burned by the Bush/Bennett ban, but on the other, that's a big flippin' jug of honey in the middle of that bear trap. Enough reward can justify a pretty big risk.

All's it takes is one knee jerk reaction here to destroy a company that banks on imported magazine fed firearms. I wouldn't want to bank on that. The honey may be worth it, but in a fragile business environment, that bear trap can be fatal. I think concentrating on the 416 variants that are the standard for piston guns and on the pistols that will survive a national magazine ban is smart. I would much rather see them invest in a MP7 based gun that is exclusively US produced in .45ACP and will run on the 10 round HK45 mags as well as a 25 round. A suppressed .45 MP7ish gun would work well for special operations and L/E use and it would be easy to do a "civilian" carbine out of it with a long barrel that is indoor range safe. Kind of a new .45 UZI with the HK94 appeal.

[JSGlock34]

I guess this (somewhat) explains HK's decision to release polymer AR magazines (https://us.hkwebshop.com/HKWebShop/show/byItemID///279). I'm not necessarily a fan of trying to design every rifle to work with the AR magazine, but I understand the concept from a business standpoint.

[Tamara]

I would much rather see them invest in a MP7 based gun that is exclusively US produced in .45ACP and will run on the 10 round HK45 mags as well as a 25 round. A suppressed .45 MP7ish gun would work well for special operations and L/E use and it would be easy to do a "civilian" carbine out of it with a long barrel that is indoor range safe. Kind of a new .45 UZI with the HK94 appeal.

I feel awkward about my MP7 thoughts (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2012/09/recoil-ing-in-shrieking-terror.html) now... :o ;)

[Dagga Boy]

I feel awkward about my MP7 thoughts (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2012/09/recoil-ing-in-shrieking-terror.html) now... :o ;)

The MP7 is the best of the breed of what it is good for. It would be stupid as a 16" semi auto………so we agree. Now, for many folks out there a shoulder fired weapon that feeds through the grip just like a pistol, can take the same mags as a pistol if needed, uses a available round from available magazines, is indoor range safe, doesn't leave you deaf and blind if you SBR'd it and fired the thing indoors, would be very suppressor friendly for those in "free states", yet workable in restricted places. Again, a modern .45 UZI, Thompson, M3.

[Jason F]

...Now, for many folks out there a shoulder fired weapon that feeds through the grip just like a pistol, can take the same mags as a pistol if needed, uses a available round from available magazines, is indoor range safe, doesn't leave you deaf and blind if you SBR'd it and fired the thing indoors, would be very suppressor friendly for those in "free states", yet workable in restricted places.....

SHUT UP and TAKE MY MONEY!!

;)

Seriously, I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's an excellent point. If available in such a configuration, it definitely would be a very good contender against an SBR for home defense / persec type setups.

C'mon Darryl, tell me you've already whispered those ideas in to the ears of the guys who can do something about it over at HK. <fingers crossed>

[GardoneVT]

The MP7 is the best of the breed of what it is good for. It would be stupid as a 16" semi auto………so we agree. Now, for many folks out there a shoulder fired weapon that feeds through the grip just like a pistol, can take the same mags as a pistol if needed, uses a available round from available magazines, is indoor range safe, doesn't leave you deaf and blind if you SBR'd it and fired the thing indoors, would be very suppressor friendly for those in "free states", yet workable in restricted places. Again, a modern .45 UZI, Thompson, M3.

Haven't you just described the Beretta CX4?

Insofar as the business aspects go, I'd say if HK wants to sell it, now is the time. Obama is a lame duck president whose predictable gun control push has surpassed the Hindenberg in sheer fail.

Now is arguably the safest time to sell an "evil rifle",before 2016 comes around and a newer,smarter leftist stooge takes up residence as POTUS.

[Dagga Boy]

Haven't you just described the Beretta CX4?

Insofar as the business aspects go, I'd say if HK wants to sell it, now is the time. Obama is a lame duck president whose predictable gun control push has surpassed the Hindenberg in sheer fail.

Now is arguably the safest time to sell an "evil rifle",before 2016 comes around and a newer,smarter leftist stooge takes up residence as POTUS.

Yep……but its not an HK……geez;).

As far as the other stuff…..this is exactly what I am talking about. Businesses should not be making decisions on right now, and then fit that in with having not a clue what will happen in a couple years. HK learned that lesson with the "9" series guns that were wholly made for the U.S. market and in a blink…….gone. That is not how you survive. HK has never been a "do stuff in a hurry, cause its in right now" company. The bad is they are often behind on some things (or so far in front that its "weird"), but when they get around to it, it is often "right" and free of the multi levels of recalls and "voluntary upgrade retrofit" stuff.

The gun I described would have to be a U.S. made product for the U.S. market. They can do it, but there is lots of other stuff on the burners. I have asked…….and everyone I talked to thinks it would be "neat" and really cool, but that doesn't mean it will ever happen until there is a call from the military for a .45 ACP suppressed micro sub gun. Essentially, I would like to see a UMP that isn't clunky and is really small.

[Drang]

The MP7 is the best of the breed of what it is good for. It would be stupid as a 16" semi auto………so we agree. Now, for many folks out there a shoulder fired weapon that feeds through the grip just like a pistol, can take the same mags as a pistol if needed, uses a available round from available magazines, is indoor range safe, doesn't leave you deaf and blind if you SBR'd it and fired the thing indoors, would be very suppressor friendly for those in "free states", yet workable in restricted places. Again, a modern .45 UZI, Thompson, M3.

Kris Vector

[JAD]

(or so far in front that its "weird")

Word. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/01/e5eperez.jpg

[Tamara]

Kris Vector

Meh. I think the tepid market response to this controllable 1000rpm cyclic rate gun that eats out of industry-standard magazines should say something about the marketability of .45ACP buzz guns (or pistol-caliber SMGs in general) in the current marketplace.

On the purely civilian fun gun side of the house, as a city-dweller who gets a lot more opportunity to shoot at indoor ranges and pistol-caliber-only outdoor ranges I used to keep a 9mm AR around for these purposes, but the viability of the M&P15/22 versus all the finicky conversions that came before it has rendered that moot for me.

[Dagga Boy]

Word. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/01/e5eperez.jpg

That along with the P9S and P7's. The USP's were timed about right.

[Tamara]

The trigger on those things felt EXACTLY like those guns that shoot the little plastic discs you used to be able to get on the toy aisle in grocery stores.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Those things took pennies perfectly...or else it was dimes. I can't remember because I was a little kid.

Anyway I dinged up a bunch of wooden furniture with one as a 5 year old.

[JAD]

I never felt good sticking my finger in something clearly modeled after a cigar cutter. Too reminiscent of my first marriage.

[Tamara]

Those things took pennies perfectly...or else it was dimes. I can't remember because I was a little kid.

Anyway I dinged up a bunch of wooden furniture with one as a 5 year old.

Ow. I played my mom's precious baby grand with a pair of maracas, didn't do anything good for the ivories. I think only the fact that they'd already invested six years in me kept them from scrapping me and starting over with a fresh kid.

I was considerably older during my infatuation with the VP70, which was based entirely on its magazine capacity and no hands-on experience with the gat itself. Finally getting my hands on one was the single most disappointing moment in my entire life with firearms.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Classic HK: high quality manufacturing and hints of brilliance in the design, combined with a trigger that reminds you that Hitler was German, too.

[Dagga Boy]

Classic HK: high quality manufacturing and hints of brilliance in the design, combined with a trigger that reminds you that Hitler was German, too.

No, he was Austrian.......;-)

[Tamara]

No, he was Austrian.......;-)

I LOLed. :D

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I married a German and no longer distinguish between any of those teutonic sausage-slinging bastards.

They're all cut from the same cloth but the Austrians...they're the wurst.

[Kyle Reese]

I married a German and no longer distinguish between any of those teutonic sausage-slinging bastards.

They're all cut from the same cloth but the Austrians...they're the wurst.

Canadians... Same as Americans, no?

:D:cool:

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Tamara]

Canadians... Same as Americans, no?

:D:cool:

Canadians are identical to Americans except the former have two stomachs and a gizzard which allows them to survive on lichen during the long winters, and so the differences are readily apparent only post mortem.

[DanH]

I married a German and no longer distinguish between any of those teutonic sausage-slinging bastards.

They're all cut from the same cloth but the Austrians...they're the wurst.

My German wife lolled :p

Her mom, not so much.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Canadians are identical to Americans except the former have two stomachs and a gizzard which allows them to survive on lichen during the long winters, and so the differences are readily apparent only post mortem.

That is spurious and offensive. The gizzard is almost exclusively for grinding millet, foraged from the topsoil of the tundra which we expose with our tusks during the long winter months.

I admit the second stomach is primarily for lichen.

[Slavex]

Dude, you're not supposed to talk about the tusks