Beretta and lubrication

[GJM]

Last summer, I got a Beretta 92G-SD. Shot it just a little, after I got it, and it ran.

Fast forward to this afternoon. I had the 92G-SD with Dale Fricke to make an appendix and OWB holster. Finally got it and the holsters back, and decided to shoot the SD. Cool out, 30's. Pistol ran, and then after a while I started experiencing a series of stoppages (slide didn't lock back, round didn't eject, etc.). I assumed something broke and put the pistol aside.

To help diagnose the problem, later I put the SD upper on an Elite lower, and the Elite upper on the SD lower. Shot both combinations and they ran. Next focused on the magazines I was using (three unfired MecGar magazines). Rotating thru the magazines, I thought I might have a bad one, but that didn't pan out.

Then it occurred to me that the SD felt sluggish, and my last eight months of shooting a Glock had made me awfully casual about cleaning and lubrication. I greased the SD (and a few more of my metal pistols!), and shot it with the lowest power ammo, and possibly suspect magazine, and it ran fine.

My theory is both parts of the Elite were lubed well enough to make the two parts of the SD run. I think the pistol was marginal all along, due to lack of lubrication, and stopped running as it got cold soaked. Might have been a cheap lesson. (YVK is lubing his Beretta right now)

[WDW]

IME, the 92 series of pistols are very finicky when it comes to lube, whereas something like a Glock could probably run pretty close to bone dry for some time. All of our M9's that "didn't run" magically started working again when they got some lube.

I love 92's, but their design more or less requires liberal & frequent lubrication.

And here's a little Beretta porn....
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/10mm4me/image_zps5a2eda17.jpg (http://s865.photobucket.com/user/10mm4me/media/image_zps5a2eda17.jpg.html)

[JonInWA]

I use TW25B on the slide rails/receiver rails, locking block/slide slot for locking block, Steel Shield's Weapon Shield or Mil-Comm's MC2500 oil for general lubing, and Dri-Slide for difficult/fiddly locations (action lockwork, etc), and Sentry Tuf-Cote wiped on barrel and grip screws (which are not recipents of Brunition coating).



Best,

Jon

[Sal Picante]

I got this tip from Ben - run your beretta pumped full of slide glide and a 9# spring.
It makes tracking the sights AWESOME.

Sure the gun "poops" everywhere, but whatev.

[YVK]

YVK is lubing his Beretta right now

Been lubing it all along since I started with it. 2145 rounds, no stoppages or any issues, already surpassing Gen4 G17 and M&P 9 in accuracy and reliability out of the box. All samples of one, of course.

[GJM]

Been lubing it all along since I started with it. 2145 rounds, no stoppages or any issues, already surpassing Gen4 G17 and M&P 9 in accuracy and reliability out of the box. All samples of one, of course.

Gen 4 reliability, M&P9 accuracy -- don't set that bar too high.

[ST911]

Common wisdom in partner Beretta agencies was that the gun was sufficiently lubed only when it ran down the arm while pointed skyward. This was a bit of an exaggeration, but quality lube in quantity always helped.

[YVK]

Gen 4 reliability, M&P9 accuracy -- don't set that bar too high.

You can flip it to S&W reliability and Glock accuracy, and pizza gun will still be ahead.

[David B.]

+ 1 on the slide glide.

I haven't tried it in real cold weather, but it works fine here in California. I use the lite version.

God bless,
David

[BLR]

Gen 4 reliability, M&P9 accuracy -- don't set that bar too high.

That's hilarious.

If Beretta would make the Elite again, I'd have a pile of them.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[fixer]

Then it occurred to me that the SD felt sluggish, and my last eight months of shooting a Glock had made me awfully casual about cleaning and lubrication. I greased the SD (and a few more of my metal pistols!), and shot it with the lowest power ammo, and possibly suspect magazine, and it ran fine.



hmmm.

Do you recall how long in terms of time or round count since you last lubed the SD?

[GJM]

Round count unknown, never lubed since I got it about six months ago.

[GardoneVT]

hmmm.

Do you recall how long in terms of time or round count since you last lubed t he SD?

For an additional detail, I recently bought a used Inox and shot 100 rounds without lube or a single stoppage.That's not much, but the gun did better then I expected. The action , however, felt like an old screen door -I could feel the metal on metal contact versus the smoothness of a typical 92FS . The gun went directly from the display case to the range , and there wasn't a drop of anything resembling oil on the slide rails, locking block, or frame.

[1986s4]

Yup. I have always run my Beretta wet. I used to use slide glide, now use frog lube paste. I am generous with the lube, wipe down the excess. When it comes to maintenance and lube Berettas are not Glocks. But maintain the springs, lube it and they do run.

[Beat Trash]

Gen 4 reliability, M&P9 accuracy -- don't set that bar too high.

That statement would make me laugh, if it didn't want to make me cry...

My Beretta's have always been run wet, using whatever lube I happen to be using at the time. They do need more lubrication than Glocks.

[Kyle Reese]

On the range last year in AFG, some of the soldiers had functional issues with their M9's (as well as M4's, AK's and a PKM), and a quick application of Frog Lube got the weapons back up and running.

[EPF]

All of our M9's that "didn't run" magically started working again when they got some lube.

This mirrors my experience with the M9. At every range their were several pistols "cured" with a little lube.

[justintime]

What are the spots that seem to make the gun not run while dry? Just the frame rails?

[JonInWA]

Berettas are pretty tightly tolerenced-to the point of the finished guns needing to be mechanically cycled hundreds of times as part of the manufacturing process to ensure proper functioning, as I recall from ToddG's old Beretta Armorers Course notes, and from a more recent detailed US factory walk-through and briefing select members of the Beretta Forum received a coupe of years back. Additionally, they have far greater metal-on-metal reciprocating surfaces than, say, Glocks or HKs, necessitating both more and continuous lubrication for reliable functioning.

Some obligatory 92D images:

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2110.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2110.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2113.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN2113.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1163.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1163.jpg.html)

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1164.jpg (http://s986.photobucket.com/user/JonInWA/media/Beretta%2092D/DSCN1164.jpg.html)

Best, Jon

[jkurtz7]

I use Tetra grease on the slide rails, barrel rails, and locking block. I've never had a stoppage with my Vertec. My philosophy on 92 lubing is if I can't see the Tetra, there isn't enough.

[GJM]

Ran the 92G-SD thru a range session today, all is well again.

[Sal Picante]

Ran the 92G-SD thru a range session today, all is well again.

:D

[LHS]

Maybe it's the layer of carbon coating the insides of mine, but I rarely find the need to lube it more than a drop on each slide rail before a match. I certainly don't agonize over it. I've been using Militech for a few years now, because I got a free bottle of it. Seems to work fine.

[Chuck_S]

I spotted the word "grease" in the original post. The word does not appear in either the Beretta manual or the military TM. As demonstrated again, grease adds friction, slows the motion of sliding parts, and can induce stoppages. Plebeian mil spec CLP works but folks just gotta try exotic and probably expensive "improvements." :)

Swapping slides and frames is an easy cause of trouble as well.

-- Chuck

[BCL]

I spotted the word "grease" in the original post. The word does not appear in either the Beretta manual or the military TM. As demonstrated again, grease adds friction, slows the motion of sliding parts, and can induce stoppages. Plebeian mil spec CLP works but folks just gotta try exotic and probably expensive "improvements." :)

Swapping slides and frames is an easy cause of trouble as well.

-- Chuck

Using grease on the frame rails and locking blocks can help reduce wear.
As long as there is some form of quality lubricant the gun should run fine, as the OP's Beretta has shown.

Todd would know more about this than I, but swapping slides on like model Berettas shouldn't cause any issues. While an issue on hand-fit 1911s, most mass-produced handguns should be able to swap slides on similar models without issue.

[GJM]

As demonstrated again, grease adds friction, slows the motion of sliding parts, and can induce stoppages.

-- Chuck

And the basis for this statement is what?

Ever seen Bruce Gray's signature line, "get some damn grease," or read Scott from Apex's lubrication recommendations for a metal pistol:

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/908103701

Ever read how Ben Stoeger, the guy who was the US production champ, greased his Beretta, or Les (Willshoot), who is about to be the newest GM, using a Beretta, greases his pistol?

[YVK]

I spotted the word "grease" in the original post. The word does not appear in either the Beretta manual or the military TM. As demonstrated again, grease adds friction, slows the motion of sliding parts, and can induce stoppages. Plebeian mil spec CLP works but folks just gotta try exotic and probably expensive "improvements." :)

Swapping slides and frames is an easy cause of trouble as well.

-- Chuck

I'd be more skeptical about one and same product's ability to Clean, Lubricate and Protect, all in one, than have any practical concerns about grease. I've been using various types of grease, standalone and with oil, on my weapons for 8 years now and only once had a hint of a problem. Even then the gun (AR-15, cold temp) still ran once I chambered a round.

My Beretta has seen nothing but TW 25 grease on rails, barrel and locking block. I'd be happy to report a MRBS, but I am going to have to wait until I actually get a stoppage.
My previous carry gun, HK P30, was lubed the same way, and it had one functional stoppage. In 19000 rounds.
My previous to previous carry gun, Glock 19, was lubed the same way, and it never had a functional stoppage. In 15000 rounds.
My previous to previous.... etc.
Suffice it to say, I am perfectly fine with grease.

[JonInWA]

I spotted the word "grease" in the original post. The word does not appear in either the Beretta manual or the military TM. As demonstrated again, grease adds friction, slows the motion of sliding parts, and can induce stoppages. Plebeian mil spec CLP works but folks just gotta try exotic and probably expensive "improvements." :)

Swapping slides and frames is an easy cause of trouble as well.

-- Chuck

Chuck, CLP used for all 3 functions (CLP) tends to be an acceptable, but sub-optimal solution, particularly regarding the cleaning and lubricating portion of the equation. Most CLPs tend to be fairly thin-so you'll have migration/evaporation/cook-off issues regarding its use as a lubricant, and there are more aggressive/effective cleaning solutions available.

I use a specific cleaner Mil-Comm's MC25) to eridicate GSR and other firing detrius. I use a weapons-specific lubricant/protectant (Weapon Shield or MC2500) for "general" lube/protectant needs, a dry film lube (Dri-Slide) for tricky to reach components that need lubrication/protection, but with a lubricant that does not serve as a GSR attractantand I use TW25B for areas of heavy use metal bearing/reciprocation; on my Beretta, that's on the slide/receiver rails, the locking block wing ends/rails, and the slide locking block slots. TW25B is a lighter viscosity grease replacement; it's characteristics are more like a cream than a grease; minimal applications are usually desirable, and it resists migration, evaporation, and cooking off.

I agree with you that a traditional heavy grease, particularly if over-applied can cause reciprocation issues; TW25B does not. I've found it ideal for Berettas (and most other firearms) as specified.

Best, Jon

[Sal Picante]

I spotted the word "grease" in the original post. The word does not appear in either the Beretta manual or the military TM. As demonstrated again, grease adds friction, slows the motion of sliding parts, and can induce stoppages. Plebeian mil spec CLP works but folks just gotta try exotic and probably expensive "improvements." :)

Swapping slides and frames is an easy cause of trouble as well.

-- Chuck

That slowing effect can be great for sight tracking in competition guns - that said, I only use MProgiliComTWBCLPOlivePepperoni Oil on my HD/nightstand gun...

When I shoot it, it smells like pizza!

:D

[JV_]

The word does not appear in either the Beretta manual or the military TM.

My .02: I don't care what the military recommends for lubrication. I'm not in the military. I'm not constrained by their requirements, operating environments, purchasing and/or inventory constraints. Lubing a pistol is not rocket science and a wide variety of lubes will suffice. I will continue to base my decisions on what works, or hasn't, for me. I've used a light grease on my guns for years and can't recall the last lube induced stoppage, or excess wear, that I've experienced.

As a matter of fact, even my Sigs - which are prone to frame rail wear - have looked quite good after many thousands of rounds. They've always seen a healthy dose of grease.

Slide Glide Lite and Lubriplate have been trouble-free for me.

[WDW]

My .02: I don't care what the military recommends for lubrication. I'm not in the military. I'm not constrained by their requirements, operating environments, purchasing and/or inventory constraints. Lubing a pistol is not rocket science and a wide variety of lubes will suffice. I will continue to base my decisions on what works, or hasn't, for me. I've used a light grease on my guns for years and can't recall the last lube induced stoppage, or excess wear, that I've experienced.

As a matter of fact, even my Sigs - which are prone to frame rail wear - have looked quite good after many thousands of rounds. They've always seen a healthy dose of grease.

Sig even ships their guns with a little packet of grease

[GJM]

And, as far as the "problem" with switching uppers, isn't that what Sig calls a "caliber X-change kit?"

[WDW]

And, as far as the "problem" with switching uppers, isn't that what Sig calls a "caliber X-change kit?"

I swap uppers on my Berettas all the time & have never had a single issue.

[LittleLebowski]

I spotted the word "grease" in the original post. The word does not appear in either the Beretta manual or the military TM.

-- Chuck

After eight years in Marine Corps infantry, the words "military TM" mean very little to me when referencing the care of small arms.

[Kyle Reese]

After eight years in Marine Corps infantry, the words "military TM" mean very little to me when referencing the care of small arms.

Yup. I'm a big fan of Slide-Glide and echo JV's sentiments.

[TGS]

I spotted the word "grease" in the original post. The word does not appear in either the Beretta manual or the military TM. As demonstrated again, grease adds friction, slows the motion of sliding parts, and can induce stoppages. Plebeian mil spec CLP works but folks just gotta try exotic and probably expensive "improvements." :)

Swapping slides and frames is an easy cause of trouble as well.

-- Chuck

Same Chuck_S from HKPRO?

Oh boy. We're in for a doozie, guys....


Paging BLR.

[GardoneVT]

I spotted the word "grease" in the original post. The word does not appear in either the Beretta manual or the military TM. As demonstrated again, grease adds friction, slows the motion of sliding parts, and can induce stoppages. Plebeian mil spec CLP works but folks just gotta try exotic and probably expensive "improvements." :)

Swapping slides and frames is an easy cause of trouble as well.

-- Chuck

In my experience, "plebian mil spec" CLP DOES NOT work. Oh sure, it keeps the gun lubricated for the thirty seconds it takes to evaporate off the weapon.What little CLP is left in the internals is sure to run out of it inside of a week.

I've stuck to separate Hoppes solvent and oil with no issues.I wound up with CLP because my local store had oil but no cleaner, and that's a mistake I won't repeat.

As to swapping slides....that's just wrong.Ive never heard of a Beretta suffering problems from a mixed slide.Heck, that's part of the fun.Throw a Centurion slide and barrel on a M9A1 frame, and you've got one sweet carry gun.

[LSP972]

Same Chuck_S from HKPRO?

Oh boy. .

I was thinking the same thing.

.

[Chuck_S]

Swapping major parts of any machine including firearms should not be expected to function perfectly without confirmation. Maybe work, maybe don't. It's an immediate suspect.

Regardless of your opinion of military specification CLP it's better than grease in an application that does not specify grease. 0-20 synthetic motor oil is better than grease for this use too :) . Military CLP is a performance specification, not a chemical formula.

All opinions are tempered (or slewed!) by personal experience. Mine with Military CLP has been flawless since it was put into use in the 1980s (1970s?). The specification has changed several times and my use of it has changed with it. Don't confuse "Breakfree CLP" with milspec CLP it has not met spec in a couple of decades.

Slather your pistol with peanut butter or KY Jelly if you want.

-- Chuck

[JV_]

Swapping major parts of any machine including firearms should not be expected to function perfectly without confirmation.
Who's talking about swapping parts between guns and not confirming function?

One shouldn't swap any part out of their gun without confirming function.

[GJM]

Who's talking about swapping parts between guns and not confirming function?

Actually, in the instance I referenced, I was intentionally swapping the upper and lower with an Elite II, to try to isolate the problem to either the upper or lower of the SD. When that didn't pan out, I focused on magazines. Lubrication, as the possible problem, only came up by process of elimination, as all that Glock shooting, caused me to be less sensitive to different pistol's lubrication requirements.

[JV_]

Gotcha. I missed some of the details skimming too much.

[ST911]

From the line of a mil training event I attended... ~25 shooters, equal distribution of well-worn DOD M9s, newer M9s, and newer commercial Beretta 92s in use by a DOD contractor. The new guns (M9 and 92) would not run worth a darn without an excessive dose of mil CLP. When the contractor guns were lubed with a bottle of Slip 2000 (maybe EWL) they ran with far less lube.

This was during a ~200-250rd training event.

[LSP972]

Perhaps I'm missing something here.

#1 grandson and I put just over a thousand rounds through his stock commercial 92FS without cleaning, without any malfunctions. The majority of this ammo was reloads using lead bullets; coated lead bullets (which reduce leading, etc.), which are not as bad as soft/uncoated lead bullets… but lead bullets just the same. We did add a bit of liquid lube a few times, but not much. This was not a planned "test", but just sort of evolved when we realized that we were at the 500+ round mark with no cleaning. We decided to see how far it would go before choking, and gave up at around 1100 rounds.

I have since learned that certain areas of the pistol benefit from grease, and have been doing that with no issues. I have very little experience with this "platform", but have grown to like it and be impressed with its reliability- at least, in our small world of use.

My point here is, if I'm reading some of these posts correctly, a few of you guys are seeing lubrication-related issues in low round counts. Is the Beretta 92 design that finicky?

.

[jkurtz7]

I won't follow the .mil suggestions for lubing my 92. CLP just doesn't stay put. When I used to use it on all my guns years back, CLP would magically be absent from the guns within a week. When I shot them, I always had to put a good helping of CLP on right before.

Now, I think CLP, specifically Break-Free is good to have around, and I always have some on hand, but I use it for wipe downs, and rust prevention/storage. I will use it as a lube for trigger mechs on my shotguns, but I won't use the stuff as a main lube for auto pistols. I use Tetra grease, and Lube for that.

While I don't use TW25B anymore, they have a pretty decent tutorial on lubing the M9/92.
http://www.mil-comm.com/images/stories/pdfs/howto/m9.pdf

[ToddG]

My personal experience with grease has always been negative given the frequency with which I clean & lubricate guns. For me, oil has always worked better.

It's true that using grease will help reduce finish wear on frame rails to a point. However, once the grease picks up firing debris or other particulate contamination like sand, it holds the contaminant in suspension and can become more like a lapping compound than a lubricant. At that point, it actually wears the gun faster than oil. I've experienced this with multiple guns and even had a Beretta 92G that stopped working reliably due to it.

I generally find that for best effective, old grease has to be removed before new grease is added. With oil, on the other hand, just add a few drops where the mechanism seems dry and you're back to a fresh start. That means I can lubricate the gun without cleaning it, which means I can run the gun longer between cleanings.

Grease can be helpful in the action and certain other areas that aren't normally as exposed to firing debris and which might not normally get the benefit of spot lubrication on the range. Though admittedly I tend to use oil there, as well, simply because that's what I've got lying around on the work bench and in the range bag.

Currently I'm using Rand CLP which is either a very thick oil or very low-viscous grease depending on how you look at it. The first generation Rand had a chemical issue in combination with the debris from lead-free primers and removed all the finish off my 9mm 1911's frame rails in just a couple thousand rounds (after more than 40,000 rounds with almost no wear using Militec). The second generation Rand formula seems better.

[JSGlock34]

My Brig Tac felt a bit sluggish at the range today, so when I got home I gave it a long overdue cleaning and lube. I was going to ask for Beretta 92 lubrication recommendations, but naturally there is already this extensive thread on the topic. I love this site. Merry Christmas!

[GardoneVT]

I just wrapped up a 250 round class with no cycle related malfunctions on my M9 Commercial . I did have a fail-to-lock back on one mag, but that's an ergonomic fail on my part .

In any event, it was carried into the class with the previous week's amount of lube on the locking block and rails, and it was holstered and carried out as well.

[Sammy1]

I can't emphasize proper lubrication enough. If you go to the range once in a while and shoot a box of ammo you probably won't notice if your not lubing the gun but you are causing wear that you don't need to. If your an active shooter or attend high round count courses you will notice the need for proper lube immediately. As a Dept. firearms instructor for Sig P series I can tell you a thousand stories about proper lube and the bad results when you don't. I conducted my own test of an M&P15 Sport ar15 with no forward assist. I ran the gun hard for one year without cleaning it, I only lubed it properly, not excessively just properly. Never had an issue and when I did clean the rifle it came out looking great. In that same year I observed, in different courses, rifles that cost four times as much go down or have stoppages. Lube your Beretta.

[Clay]

I know I'm preaching to the choir here but a lack of lube is the number one gun problem I see while working at a local range.

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk

[LangdonTactical]

So this is a little bit of a can of worms. I have a couple of things to point out right off the bat.
1. I make it a habit of not carrying the gun that I shoot the hell out of. I tend to keep my carry gun very clean always have a light lube on it, less than the gun I am planning to shoot 500 rounds through in a day, but lubed for sure.
2. I shoot a lot every year and tend to take pretty poor care of my day to day range guns. That said, I do add lube to them often and clean them about every 2,000 rounds or so.
3. The environment that I am training in makes a difference in how long I will go in between cleanings. If I am surrounded by grass, I may go longer than 2K between cleanings. If I am in a sandy dusty area, I may clean the guns way more often. Oil plus sand adds up to lapping compound that will wear your guns out very quickly.
4. All of the above being said, how hard you run your guns and how you take care of them makes a difference on what kind of maintenance you need to pull. It's like asking how many miles can you put on your car. Are you driving 60 miles an hour in cool weather all the time, or racing it on a road course in Death Valley? If you are doing the latter, you may have to do more maintenance for sure.

For the Beretta 92 specifically, here is what I normally do as a schedule on a hard use gun.
1. Lube before each range session.
2. Clean every 2,000 rounds or so.
3. Recoil, trigger spring and trigger bar spring every 5k or so. (not really needed with the WC Chrome Silicon Springs)
4. Top end rebuild every 10,000 or so. Firing Pins & Spring, Extractor & Spring, and detail clean whole gun.
5. New Locking Block every 20,000 rounds or so. (make sure it is fitted correctly)

The above is not required, but it has served me very well for many years of competition and training.

I normally keep this up for about 40K to 50K, so the gun last me for two solid years of shooting, give or take. After that I normally put that gun out to pasture so to speak. They will last twice that long, but I don't want to wait to see how long. I let them become loaner guns or safe queens after that normally and feel I have gotten my monies worth out of them. Figure $10K to $15K worth of ammo through a gun that I maybe have $1K or so invested into, I am happy with that.

Hope this helps.

[Clobbersaurus]

^^That is great information, thank you for posting.

[GJM]

Since I know you to be familiar with both platforms, how do you compare/contrast the same lubrication and PM for the Sig P series pistols?

[LangdonTactical]

Since I know you to be familiar with both platforms, how do you compare/contrast the same lubrication and PM for the Sig P series pistols?

I would say it is about the same except for instead of replacing the locking block, I would replace the disassembly lever on the Sig. I have never seen the locking insert on a Sig P series gun break, but I have seen a few of those levers break over the year.

If it is a older stamp slide gun, I would replace the role pin in the slide every 5k with the springs. Just cheap insurance to keep that breach block in place and support that slide. That really helps the whole gun hold up better if you keep a fresh role pin in those guns.

The newer solid stainless guns should not need that at all, and getting the solid pins out of those guns is really tough! As a general rule of thumb, once a role/spring pin comes out of a gun it should be replaced if possible.

Also, it is very tough to recommend maintenance on the Sig P series guns as they have made so many variations and changes to that gun. Are we talking 9mm, 40, 45, 357 Sig? Is this a internal extractor gun or external? Long or Short extractor? And to be honest, I don't have enough rounds through all the the different types to make those recommendations.

Hope this helps?

[Jared]

How do you fit a locking block on a 92, if you don't mind sharing. Better yet, what gunsmiths do you trust to do it?

[Colt191145lover]

How do you fit a locking block on a 92, if you don't mind sharing. ?

I would like more info on this as well!

[LangdonTactical]

How do you fit a locking block on a 92, if you don't mind sharing. Better yet, what gunsmiths do you trust to do it?

That is not something that I would feel comfortable discussing in this format. Not a lot of Beretta Gunsmiths out there, but I am sure Wilson Combat could do it for sure, I am sure a few others could do it as well.

[JSGlock34]

Ernest - thanks for sharing your insight. What are the proper lubrication points for the Beretta 92? I'm accustomed to Glocks, which have a pretty basic lubrication requirement. I suspect the TDA pistols require a bit more attention in some places. Is there anything in particular to emphasize or pay attention to?

[Jeep]

So this is a little bit of a can of worms. I have a couple of things to point out right off the bat.
1. I make it a habit of not carrying the gun that I shoot the hell out of. I tend to keep my carry gun very clean always have a light lube on it, less than the gun I am planning to shoot 500 rounds through in a day, but lubed for sure.
2. I shoot a lot every year and tend to take pretty poor care of my day to day range guns. That said, I do add lube to them often and clean them about every 2,000 rounds or so.
3. The environment that I am training in makes a difference in how long I will go in between cleanings. If I am surrounded by grass, I may go longer than 2K between cleanings. If I am in a sandy dusty area, I may clean the guns way more often. Oil plus sand adds up to lapping compound that will wear your guns out very quickly.
4. All of the above being said, how hard you run your guns and how you take care of them makes a difference on what kind of maintenance you need to pull. It's like asking how many miles can you put on your car. Are you driving 60 miles an hour in cool weather all the time, or racing it on a road course in Death Valley? If you are doing the latter, you may have to do more maintenance for sure.

For the Beretta 92 specifically, here is what I normally do as a schedule on a hard use gun.
1. Lube before each range session.
2. Clean every 2,000 rounds or so.
3. Recoil, trigger spring and trigger bar spring every 5k or so. (not really needed with the WC Chrome Silicon Springs)
4. Top end rebuild every 10,000 or so. Firing Pins & Spring, Extractor & Spring, and detail clean whole gun.
5. New Locking Block every 20,000 rounds or so. (make sure it is fitted correctly)

The above is not required, but it has served me very well for many years of competition and training.

I normally keep this up for about 40K to 50K, so the gun last me for two solid years of shooting, give or take. After that I normally put that gun out to pasture so to speak. They will last twice that long, but I don't want to wait to see how long. I let them become loaner guns or safe queens after that normally and feel I have gotten my monies worth out of them. Figure $10K to $15K worth of ammo through a gun that I maybe have $1K or so invested into, I am happy with that.

Hope this helps.

This is really helpful information. By the way, you previously have indicated that you might do a class on the internals of the 92, which I suppose would teach one how to rebuild the slide assembly etc. Any chance that such classes might be held? Thanks.

[JSGlock34]

This is really helpful information. By the way, you previously have indicated that you might do a class on the internals of the 92, which I suppose would teach one how to rebuild the slide assembly etc. Any chance that such classes might be held? Thanks.

I'm in if this is ever offered.

[LangdonTactical]

This is really helpful information. By the way, you previously have indicated that you might do a class on the internals of the 92, which I suppose would teach one how to rebuild the slide assembly etc. Any chance that such classes might be held? Thanks.

There have been many discussions of doing a 92 Series type class. Does shooting need to be part of the class?

[Sal Picante]

There have been many discussions of doing a 92 Series type class. Does shooting need to be part of the class?

Does a bear shit in the woods?

[GJM]

Does a bear shit in the woods?

A firearms class without shooting, is like a date without ...... Never mind.

It would be a tragedy to be with EL and not shoot. Shoot all day, and tinker in the evening.

[Sal Picante]

How do you fit a locking block on a 92, if you don't mind sharing. Better yet, what gunsmiths do you trust to do it?

Patrick Sweeney's "Gunsmithing Pistols and Revolvers" has a section on fitting a new locking block in the Beretta.

Not saying you should do it, but if you really want to know, you know, in case the apocalypse comes...

[JSGlock34]

There have been many discussions of doing a 92 Series type class. Does shooting need to be part of the class?

I'll dissent and say shooting is optional for me...when we talked about this last time (Beretta Armorer Course? (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?14350-Beretta-92-Armorer-Course) thread) you mentioned the possibility of holding a class at the Beretta Factory at Accokeek, MD (though you definitely said not to get our hopes up!). I think the opportunity to spend a day or two at the Beretta Factory to learn the ins and outs of the 92 (and hopefully get a tour and use their beater guns to learn on) would be worth it to me, and I'd happily trade range time for that experience.


So I would be interested in the discussion on doing an class. As Todd says, it would take everyone having a beater gun that they did not mind taking apart several times and making mistakes on, not to mention the tools. I have no issues in teaching the G safety as i have gotten pretty good at taking that safety system apart and putting it back. If I remember correctly, the Beretta factory class included a 90 series Armorers tool kit. I have done that class twice as a student, once when i worked there and once when I was on the team years later.

I could have the conversation with Beretta about using their guns for the class. Maybe even hosting it at the Accokeek factory??? Don't get your hopes up!

Ernest

[Colt191145lover]

I have a question on the locking block and the slide fit. Should both the "ears" of the locking block touch the slide toward the the muzzle ? I have one 92 that with the slide off the frame the locking block does not touch the slide . The other 4 in the house all touch, any ideas?

I can start a new thread if we need, as this is kind of getting off to topic .

[Code7inoaktown]

That is not something that I would feel comfortable discussing in this format. Not a lot of Beretta Gunsmiths out there, but I am sure Wilson Combat could do it for sure, I am sure a few others could do it as well.
So does this mean regular maintenance send the barrel to Wilson or a Beretta Smith? Shade tree Smith won't do I guess.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

[stimpee]

I'll dissent and say shooting is optional for me...when we talked about this last time (Beretta Armorer Course? (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?14350-Beretta-92-Armorer-Course) thread) you mentioned the possibility of holding a class at the Beretta Factory at Accokeek, MD (though you definitely said not to get our hopes up!). I think the opportunity to spend a day or two at the Beretta Factory to learn the ins and outs of the 92 (and hopefully get a tour and use their beater guns to learn on) would be worth it to me, and I'd happily trade range time for that experience.

Not really any factory left in Accokeek at this point. The last of the major machines will be packed up and put on a truck for Tennessee in the next 2-3 weeks, and about 2/3 of the stuff is already gone.

[JSGlock34]

Ah, well. Good luck in Tennessee!

[LangdonTactical]

Ah, well. Good luck in Tennessee!

LOL, right! It will all be there pretty soon, they are ramping all that up now.

[Tamara]

It would be a tragedy to be with EL and not shoot.

^^^That.

[LangdonTactical]

I have a question on the locking block and the slide fit. Should both the "ears" of the locking block touch the slide toward the the muzzle ? I have one 92 that with the slide off the frame the locking block does not touch the slide . The other 4 in the house all touch, any ideas?

I can start a new thread if we need, as this is kind of getting off to topic .

I cannot say without seeing it. The Locking Block ears should be engaging the shoulders of the slide toward the muzzle end of the slide. That is the lock up point for that system. But you have to hold the slide up and press down on the locking block.

You want even contact between the two ears on both sides, and if the gun is taken care of, normally you can just drop in a new locking block and it should fit correctly with out any adjustments or fitting.

[JSGlock34]

^^^That.

Thankfully I've had the pleasure a few times over the past five years...obviously I think any time spent with Ernest is time well spent. If you haven't signed up for one of his classes, you're missing out. Here's my AAR for his Advanced Tactical Pistol course. (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1065-AAR-Ernest-Langdon-Advanced-Pistol-Class-21-22-August-2010-Culpeper-VA)

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/Langdon%20Tactical%202010/LangdonAdvancedTacticalPistol22August2010002.jpg

5117

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DobX32QxN9o/VfQcp07nNNI/AAAAAAAAPMM/TwUt5emzOOo/w888-h500-no/ARM_2848.jpg

[disseminator]

FWIW, I used to use the tw25 grease on my sigs and my 92a1, in the last year or so I switched to VT Rand CLP.

It has been flawless. Both in use, and in storage. There are no problems that I have seen with evaporation or burn off. I use it on my SIG m400 as well. I ran it through a few classes this year with well over 1000 rounds without a single malfunction.

[Tamara]

Thankfully I've had the pleasure a few times over the past five years...obviously I think any time spent with Ernest is time well spent. If you haven't signed up for one of his classes, you're missing out.

I'm not at all kidding when I say that the class I took this past October with Ernest made the single largest improvement in my pistol skills of all the handgun classes I've taken.

[Sal Picante]

I'm not at all kidding when I say that the class I took this past October with Ernest made the single largest improvement in my pistol skills of all the handgun classes I've taken.

Which was?

[GJM]

Which was?

Further refined her already honed sense of humor?

[Sal Picante]

Further refined her already honed sense of humor?

She did say "pistol skills"...

[Colt191145lover]

I cannot say without seeing it. The Locking Block ears should be engaging the shoulders of the slide toward the muzzle end of the slide. That is the lock up point for that system. But you have to hold the slide up and press down on the locking block.

You want even contact between the two ears on both sides, and if the gun is taken care of, normally you can just drop in a new locking block and it should fit correctly with out any adjustments or fitting.


Thank you Sir! Pressing the locking block did the trick, ears are both contacting the slide . That has bothered me for years , thanks again for taking the time to explain that .

[Tamara]

Which was?

I stopped obsessively trying to pin the trigger/"ride the reset", which seems to have been the major cause of my accuracy going to hell any time I tried to shoot at any speed faster than a crawl.

[LangdonTactical]

I'm not at all kidding when I say that the class I took this past October with Ernest made the single largest improvement in my pistol skills of all the handgun classes I've taken.

Very kind words Tamara and I love to hear that I have made a difference for someone in their shooting skills. Thank you!