Beretta 1301 Tactical

[GJM]

Looks like Beretta is reintroducing the TX-4 Storm, under the name "1301 Tactical:"

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2013/10/29/beretta-1301-tactical-shotgun/

[Dagga Boy]

Now that is interesting. I may need to re-visit the idea of one of those. Looks like a great shotgun. It sort of reminds me of my old SKB from the 80's that was a great tactical shotgun that nobody ever heard of.

[GJM]

The predecessor, the Beretta TX-4 Storm (which looks almost identical) started to take off just as Beretta decided to discontinue it. I saw used ones fetch $2,000 +/- on Gunbroker.

The TX-4 is simply the best semi-auto practical shotgun I have shot. Soft recoil, reliable, fast cycle rate, accurate, with far and away the best stock I have felt on a practical shotgun.

[JHC]

The predecessor, the Beretta TX-4 Storm (which looks almost identical) started to take off just as Beretta decided to discontinue it. I saw used ones fetch $2,000 +/- on Gunbroker.

The TX-4 is simply the best semi-auto practical shotgun I have shot. Soft recoil, reliable, fast cycle rate, accurate, with far and away the best stock I have felt on a practical shotgun.

GJM - have you been able to compare the new with the old TX-4 Storm to confirm its similarities?

[GJM]

From perusing either Beretta forum or Enos, my understanding is that it is a rebadged TX-4 sold for a lot less money than the TX-4. The 1301 is the 3 gun model, and the Tactical is the personal defense model. There is a 20 page thread on Enos extolling the 1301. The TX-4/1301 Tactical is my single favorite defensive shotgun ever!

[Dave Williams]

One of the current tactical trainers was very impressed with this shotgun and did some posting on it, I can't recall where though. Comes standard with a nice short stock.

[GJM]

One of the current tactical trainers was very impressed with this shotgun and did some posting on it, I can't recall where though. Comes standard with a nice short stock.

It has a piece you can remove, to shorten LOP some, although I wish you could make it even shorter. The shape of the stock is fantastic. I still remember the first time I saw and picked up a TX-4, it was like "wow!" The 18 inch Beretta is lighter and feels much handier than my 14 inch 870's. This is the best shotgun going, that almost nobody knows about.

[LOKNLOD]

I really want, nay, need a new shotgun. I'd like to try an auto...

[Crews]

I wonder if this is based on the A300 or A400 platform? I have an A400 Extreme that I bird hunt with, it's a very, very nice shotgun.

[DocGKR]

Just acquired one.

[joshs]

I wonder if this is based on the A300 or A400 platform? I have an A400 Extreme that I bird hunt with, it's a very, very nice shotgun.

I think it is the A400, but it doesn't have the kick-off system.

[GJM]

Just acquired one.

That is the difference -- you "acquire" a Beretta and just "buy" a Remington.

[jlw]

Sweet.

[Tom Givens]

I was excited about this gun and handled one at SHOT. However, I asked the Beretta people to get me one of their guys who was actually familiar with the gun, which they did. He verified to me that you cannot top the magazine up once a shot has been fired-- you have to wait until the gun is empty to reload it. That's a deal killer for me.

[jlw]

I was excited about this gun and handled one at SHOT. However, I asked the Beretta people to get me one of their guys who was actually familiar with the gun, which they did. He verified to me that you cannot top the magazine up once a shot has been fired-- you have to wait until the gun is empty to reload it. That's a deal killer for me.

Ouch.

Stuff like that just makes an old fashion pump gun makes since.

[GJM]

I was excited about this gun and handled one at SHOT. However, I asked the Beretta people to get me one of their guys who was actually familiar with the gun, which they did. He verified to me that you cannot top the magazine up once a shot has been fired-- you have to wait until the gun is empty to reload it. That's a deal killer for me.

I have a TX4, and that isn't the case. Since the 1301 is the Beretta 3gun shotgun, can't imagine that is correct.

[TheTrevor]

I was excited about this gun and handled one at SHOT. However, I asked the Beretta people to get me one of their guys who was actually familiar with the gun, which they did. He verified to me that you cannot top the magazine up once a shot has been fired-- you have to wait until the gun is empty to reload it. That's a deal killer for me.

Just this week I discovered that my made-in-Turkey Weatherby SA-459 works the same way -- once a shot has been fired, the carrier is locked in the down position until the gun runs dry. I was NOT happy to discover this, as it means that it's useless as a 3-gun shotgun.

Imagine my surprise when I went to run a shoot-1-load-2 drill and couldn't get any ammo into the gun. Then my frustration when no amount of control manipulation would get it to accept ammo. Then my anger when I realized that this was in fact how it was designed, and the only in-process manipulation possible is a time-consuming eject-chambered-shell-and-load-one drill. I'm getting irked again just writing this.

Looks like I'll be watching for deals on a Mossberg 930 JM in a few months...

[GJM]

I have a TX4, and that isn't the case. Since the 1301 is the Beretta 3gun shotgun, can't imagine that is correct.

Very clearly reloading here without being empty:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wWC8p725h7c

[joshs]

I was excited about this gun and handled one at SHOT. However, I asked the Beretta people to get me one of their guys who was actually familiar with the gun, which they did. He verified to me that you cannot top the magazine up once a shot has been fired-- you have to wait until the gun is empty to reload it. That's a deal killer for me.

This isn't the case with the 1301s I've seen. There are a bunch of videos of Beretta's sponsored shooter reloading a partially full 1301 in practical shotgun matches on YouTube.


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[Tom Givens]

I was not able to fire the gun at SHOT to verify. However, the Beretta employee who claimed to know said that when you fire the gun a round comes out of the magazine on to the lifter, thus blocking putting anything else in the magazine tube until the gun is empty. We discussed this at length.

Perhaps Doc Roberts can take his new 1301 out and see just what the truth is.

[joshs]

I was not able to fire the gun at SHOT to verify. However, the Beretta employee who claimed to know said that when you fire the gun a round comes out of the magazine on to the lifter, thus blocking putting anything else in the magazine tube until the gun is empty. We discussed this at length.

Perhaps Doc Roberts can take his new 1301 out and see just what the truth is.

I saw a few people using the 1301 Comp at the Rock Castle Pro Am this year, and none of them worked this way. Unless the tactical model operating system is different, there is no problem loading shells with a partially empty gun.

[GJM]

With the TX-4, which I believe to be functionally the same as the 1301 Tactical, you can get a shell on the lifter my manually pushing the spring loaded latch at the rear of the action. That blocks the magazine. The reason I do that is so I can carry it condition 3, and only work the charging handle to load a round (otherwise from condition 3 you need to depress the spring loaded latch and work the handle). In normal operation, it is like a Benelli, where the action of firing releases a round from THE TUBE, not the lifter, leaving the magazine up encumbered for loading.

[Slavex]

Perhaps it's when you pull the trigger that the next round jumps into the carrier vs jumping in as the bolt goes back?

[GJM]

Perhaps it's when you pull the trigger that the next round jumps into the carrier vs jumping in as the bolt goes back?

Eh, you may be right.

Spoke to my buddy who shot one yesterday, bought by his GM pal for 3 Gun. No issues feeding the tube when partially full.

[Crews]

I think it is the A400, but it doesn't have the kick-off system.

Well, that's a great selling point! My A400 Extreme is a 3.5" gun, but it'll even cycle through 2.75" 5/8oz target loads intended for double guns. That gas system is outstanding. Italian shotguns are kinda like German pistols!

[SJC3081]

Please excuse my ignorance,besides the price difference why this gun as compared to a M4?

[GJM]

Please excuse my ignorance,besides the price difference why this gun as compared to a M4?

Weighs about two pounds less, more reliable with a range of loads, far better stock/sight/rail design. Faster cycling, too.

[secondstoryguy]

I bought a 1301 on GJMs advice and it came in the other day. It shoots soft and cycles everything I've fed it from light dove/trap loads to slugs and even a mixed bag of some ancient stuff I've had lying around for over 15 years. I've owned a few Benelli social shotguns and the reason I got rid of them is they have all been ammunition finicky, especially with lighter loads.

Another reason I went with Beretta is that I have friends who go dove hunting in Argentina where it's common to shoot 1000s of rounds a day bird hunting. According to my buddy, the loaner guns are all Berettas. When asked why their guides said that after trying various models they have found Berettas to be the most reliable and durable semi autos out there.

[Crews]

Weighs about two pounds less, more reliable with a range of loads, far better stock/sight/rail design. Faster cycling, too.

And in my opinion, a lot less felt recoil.

[DocGKR]

I have my 1301 Tactical with the 18" barrel and 5 round mag tube. The mag tube can definitely be topped up in any condition, fired or other wise as long as one knows how to operate the controls correctly. I had originally planned on getting a Versamax, but am quite pleased with the 1301--this new Beretta is nothing like the abysmal 1201. The 1301 is softer shooting than the Benelli M1/M2, but not quite as soft as the Versamax--however the Beretta is substantially lighter than the Versamax and is much quicker on target. The VersaMax has a larger loading port, but the lifter needs some work; the Beretta loads fine out of the box.

The only thing I am not digging is the difficulty in adding a good sling and light to the 1301, although Briley and Nordic have solutions I am hoping to try in the next week or so.

[ToddG]

I need to figure out if these are Maryland-legal. You guys have me jonesing!

[Kyle Reese]

I need to figure out if these are Maryland-legal. You guys have me jonesing!

Looking over SB 281, I see nothing in there pertaining to shotguns that would prohibit the Beretta 1301 Tactical.

[JHC]

You guys have me jonesing!

Same here! Much thanks to GJM and others for the testing and reviews as I've not stayed current with shotgun developments for some years now.

[Crews]

A little trick you guys may or may not know about your Beretta......

Push the shell carrier up with your trigger finger, then push the slide release button with your thumb an you can pull shells right out of the magazine. This allows you to unload the magazine without working the bolt. (With bolt closed)

[DocGKR]

Yup, that is the way I unload my mag tube--almost like an 870.

[Crews]

Also, 1301 Comp will float an extra shell under the bolt with a full magazine. 1301 tactical won't.

[Doug]

Also, 1301 Comp will float an extra shell under the bolt with a full magazine. 1301 tactical won't.

I was looking to try some 3 gun with it. Appears from the rep, the 1301 Comp is a longer 3.5 " reciever so you can load 2 shells at a time but will not be able to do that with the 1301 Tactical.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWfkLF7S1XY

[Doug]

Found this pic. I am kind of liking this Comp set up.

http://tmh.smugmug.com/photos/i-mHqq8zs/0/XL/i-mHqq8zs-XL.jpg

[Doug]

Manufacturer web site says 37.8 in length.

http://www.beretta.com/en/1301-tactical/

[Dagga Boy]

After looking at both the Tactical and Competition gun at SHOT, I am going to get the Competition one at some point. Even though I like the shorter barrel on the Tactical, the Competition looks like it has more thought into it (like the 3 1/2" receiver to allow more room for manipulations of ammo). I figure at some point a shorter barrel will be available or a custom cut version could be figured out if the 3 inches is something I couldn't live with.

[GJM]

After looking at both the Tactical and Competition gun at SHOT, I am going to get the Competition one at some point. Even though I like the shorter barrel on the Tactical, the Competition looks like it has more thought into it (like the 3 1/2" receiver to allow more room for manipulations of ammo). I figure at some point a shorter barrel will be available or a custom cut version could be figured out if the 3 inches is something I couldn't live with.

I think it depends on what you are trying to do. The standard 1301 is the new darling of the 3 Gun crowd, and as you point out has a number of good features.

The 1301 Tactical/TX4 has one significant difference that for my use trumps the standard 1301 for defensive use -- the stock design and relationship of the aperture sights to the rail. With an H1 in a Larue low QD mount, the aperture sights and red dot are co-witnessed on the TX4/1301 Tactical, but not the regular 1301. It isn't the co-witness exactly that excites me, but rather the stock is optimized for using both the aperture sights and dot. Every other shotgun I have tried (Benelli M2, Benelli M4, 1301, 870 with Magpul or any stock) is set up for an optic or iron sights, but not both. That means the stock feels wrong 50 percent of the time, if you want aperture sight and optic capability. Since launching a single projectile Brenneke slug is my main use for the shotgun, and I want aperture sight and red dot ability, nothing else compared to the 1301 Tactical/TX4 for my use. If you really want to shoot 3 Gun or buck, the regular 1301 is probably the way to go.

[David Armstrong]

I enjoyed my 1201 FP. Recoil operated, light weight, blazingly fast. Looks like the 1301 may be a nice successor.

[Dagga Boy]

GJM, my thought was to try to find someone to barrel mount a small rail at the back of the vent rib on the Competition gun for a Micro to leave the receiver slick for more loading options.

[shootist26]

Looks like the 1301 Tac has the rail on top with the full cutout down the middle. Doesn't work too hot with QD mounts like the Larue from what I've seen.

[GJM]

I bought a 1301 before I knew the 1301 Tactical would follow, and since I wanted to primarily shoot slugs, I got the Beretta rail and put an H1 on my 1301. I think the 1301 stock is optimized for the two FO beads that it comes with, as even in the low Aimpoint factory mount, the H1 sits higher than I prefer.. Your face may be different than mine, but I would set an H1 on the rib and see whether that will work out -- my bet is that the Aimpoint will ride too high for your liking and mess up being able to use the FO dots when the H1 is removed..

[ScotchMan]

Why wouldn't they stretch out the magazine tube enough to fit a 6th round? 6+1 is fairly standard as a minimum for a tactical shotgun, no? Mossberg 930 holds 7+1. There is even a gap there at the end of the tube. With the platform's biggest downside as a defensive weapon being capacity, why wouldn't they fill that thing up as much as possible?

[GJM]

Briley can do that for you with a +1 or 2 magazine extension that includes a bit of rail for your light and sling.

[DocGKR]

OK. I love my 1301 Tac. It is a quick and easy to shoot. I'll be getting another 1301 soon. However, there is NO easy way to mount a light on these things, let alone a good sling. The Briley extension tubes w/pic rails are nice, but it places the light too far forward. You can also get a sling swivel stud on the Briley extension tubes, but I'd rather have a fixed sling attachment.

[ScotchMan]

Briley can do that for you with a +1 or 2 magazine extension that includes a bit of rail for your light and sling.

Interesting. I may need to look into these. They look sharp as hell and I am pleasantly surprised to see the PF crowd with good things to say about them. I can't say I've seen that with anything else in the "Storm" series, even though I myself am quite fond of the pistols.

[ToddG]

Can someone give me the short list in terms of differences, Tac vs Comp?

[DocGKR]

1301 Tac has an 18" barrel w/3" chamber, ghost ring sights, 3" receiver, and comes with the Pic Rail installed.

1301 Comp has 21" or 24" barrels w/3" chambers, vent rib and bead sight, 3.5" receiver (bigger loading port), receiver is drilled for pic rail but it is not included ($65 option from Beretta).

Both have 5 round magazines, but a variety of vendors make magazine extensions.

[GJM]

Buy a 1301 for 3 Gun and/or primarily shooting shot. Buy the Tactical is your priority is defensive use with slugs and buck.

[shootist26]

does the 1301 Tactical have a removable pic rail on the receiver? Or is it built in?

[Chuck Whitlock]

Just handled a 1301 Tactical at a local Scheels. Felt really nice. I'd be seriously jonesing for it if I didn't already have an M1S90. Asking price was just under $1K.

Re: Mounting a light. Is there a reason that you couldn't mount a chunk of rail to the forend where you wanted and add an Inforce WML?

[GJM]

Re: Mounting a light. Is there a reason that you couldn't mount a chunk of rail to the forend where you wanted and add an Inforce WML?

I believe, based on having Jim Brockman look at the TX4, that there isn't enough material/clearance to be able to screw the trail to the fore end, hence the Briley extension or custom mount Brockman made for me that clamps to the barrel.

[Doug]

Here is a good quick 2 minute video from the competition perspective on the 21" 1301 comp. Good to hear that it shoots slugs well. Looks like the receiver may need to be open just a little bit more to load two by two.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2qo32_yYho

[nalesq]

What about mounting a light to the barrel? I am using an RS Regulate BM-12 and Vltor light mount to mount a Surefire Fury to my Remington 870 barrel just ahead of the barrel guide ring/magazine cap (it has just a standard vanilla 4-round mag, so I couldn't mount a light to the mag tube).

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[elsquid]

Why wouldn't they stretch out the magazine tube enough to fit a 6th round? 6+1 is fairly standard as a minimum for a tactical shotgun, no? Mossberg 930 holds 7+1. There is even a gap there at the end of the tube. With the platform's biggest downside as a defensive weapon being capacity, why wouldn't they fill that thing up as much as possible?

Because then it wouldn't be legal to import. Here's a discussion about 922(r) and Benelli shotguns...

http://freedomfightertactical.com/922r-faq/

[GJM]

There is a question, and I don't know on the 1301 what the US component count is, the 3 gun guys certainly are bolting long mag tubes on.

I am away from my shotgun but next week I can post a pic of the custom clamp Brockman made. It is trickier than you might think because of the long fore arm.

[TheTrevor]

I don't know why people get all wound around the axle on 922(r). Basically, unless you're an importer, distributor, or retail FFL selling imported firearms, it appears that you have basically zero chance of someone hassling you about 922(r) compliance. What you do to your imported 922(r) compliant firearm after it's sold to you, the end-user, is pretty much up to you.

The only exception that I give any credibility to is someone taking imported 922(r) firearms out of country (e.g. to an IPSC world meet) and then bringing them back in. And even then I've never been able to find any documented evidence of this being a problem.

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. But I've done some digging on this and every example of someone getting busted for 922(r) compliance issues is a party upstream of the end-user, and the 922(r) charges are usually part of a whole passel of violations.

Beretta can't sell you the 1301 in a configuration which violates 922(r), because they're the importer. Likewise, it would be problematic for your transferring FFL to modify your 1301 and take it out of compliance before you took delivery of it. Once it's in the end-user's hands, though, they could trade the stock mag tube cap for a mag extension before they left the store.

[ToddG]

What you do to your imported 922(r) compliant firearm after it's sold to you, the end-user, is pretty much up to you.

Murdering everyone at the local orphanage is pretty much up to you, too. And just like modifying your firearm in contravention of 922(r) it would be a crime if you did it. That ATF doesn't run around house to house checking isn't the same as saying it's legal.

[JM Campbell]

What about mounting a light to the barrel? I am using an RS Regulate BM-12 and Vltor light mount to mount a Surefire Fury to my Remington 870 barrel just ahead of the barrel guide ring/magazine cap (it has just a standard vanilla 4-round mag, so I couldn't mount a light to the mag tube).

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Duc tape baby!! Looking forward to this answer. The 1301T is next on my list of must haves.

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[GJM]

I had a light taped on for three months.

[joshs]

Beretta can't sell you the 1301 in a configuration which violates 922(r), because they're the importer. Likewise, it would be problematic for your transferring FFL to modify your 1301 and take it out of compliance before you took delivery of it. Once it's in the end-user's hands, though, they could trade the stock mag tube cap for a mag extension before they left the store.

922(r) has nothing to do with Beretta's status as an Importer/Manufacturer/Licensee. It isn't even 922(r) that prevents Beretta from importing shotguns with big magazine tubes. All firearm importation is prohibited except as allowed by 18 U.S.C. S 925(d). And, in this case, it is specifically 925(d)(3) the "sporting purpose" test.

922(r) makes it unlawful to assemble from imported parts any shotgun or semi-auto rifle into an unimportable configuration. ATF has only published limited guidance on what is not importable, including the "parts count" system for determining when something is assembled from imported parts. We know that certain rifles are not importable, and there are very specific parts counts for popular rifles. Other than shotguns that were "assault weapons" under the federal AWB's "two feature" test, ATF has been much less consistent on shotguns. For example, I have three letters from private individuals to ATF asking about very similar shotguns that all have different parts counts from Firearms Technology Branch.

The biggest bar to 922(r) prosecutions for shotguns is that there is no notice of what is and is not importable because importation decisions are not made public. The importer submits the firearm to ATF for approval, and ATF either approves or denies the application for importation. Letters that ATF has sent to individuals do not put anyone on notice other than the individual that a certain configuration might not be importable. And, even then, the letters should not be able to be used against the individual (at least that is how individual revenue rulings work on other tax matters and ATF has just continued to issue these rulings even after it was moved to DoJ). Notice is a fundamental requirement of due process, so any criminal prosecution under 922(r) would have to show that the "assembler" was on notice that the assembled configuration was unimportable.

This is not legal advice, and nothing in this post is intended to create an attorney-client relationship.

[DocGKR]

Picked up a Beretta 1301 21" Comp today...

[Jay Cunningham]

Picked up a Beretta 1301 21" Comp today...

Cool! One of those is on my list, though I might go for the 24" barrel.

[DocGKR]

24" barrel is what I wanted, but I walked into a deal on a 21" that I could not pass up.

With the addition of a Beretta 2" external choke (http://www.berettausa.com/products/beretta-choke-tube-optimachoke-hp-2-12ga/), it makes a 23", which is actually kind of nice.

I just mounted an old Aimpoint 4 MOA H1 I had lying around on my 1301 Tactical and zeroed it. Started at 25 yds with some low recoil Winchester Ranger slugs--did not like those too much, as the pattern looked like buckshot. However it loves Brennekes, as five 1 oz Brennekes went into a centered 3" circle at 50 yds!

Waiting on a new H1 to arrive to put on the 1301 Comp.

[ToddG]

When I went in to start paperwork on my second P229-1, I verified that the 1301 is indeed Maryland legal. I cannot really justify getting one today but something tells me I'll be bringing one home eventually. Odds are I'll get a competition model and then have the barrel shortened as far as I can, ending up with a just-barely-SBS ... assuming I can find a good light option.

[DocGKR]

Still working on the light issue, but may have something soon...

[LOKNLOD]

Someone should make a magazine extension that does (or miminally, depending on OAL desired) change the capacity but houses a light. Switching is a bit tricky, may require a tape switch. Light section would be modular and threaded at the rear to screw on to various length mag tubes extensions. Minimal bulk, possibly some capacity increase, symmetrical... I think it would work.

[joshs]

Someone should make a magazine extension that does (or miminally, depending on OAL desired) change the capacity but houses a light. Switching is a bit tricky, may require a tape switch. Light section would be modular and threaded at the rear to screw on to various length mag tubes extensions. Minimal bulk, possibly some capacity increase, symmetrical... I think it would work.

I think Laser Devices just came out with a light that screws into the magazine threads that has adapters to fit a bunch of shotguns.


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[LOKNLOD]

Well there ya go. Always a day late and a dollar short.

[Spr1]

922(r) has nothing to do with Beretta's status as an Importer/Manufacturer/Licensee. It isn't even 922(r) that prevents Beretta from importing shotguns with big magazine tubes. All firearm importation is prohibited except as allowed by 18 U.S.C. S 925(d). And, in this case, it is specifically 925(d)(3) the "sporting purpose" test.

922(r) makes it unlawful to assemble from imported parts any shotgun or semi-auto rifle into an unimportable configuration. ATF has only published limited guidance on what is not importable, including the "parts count" system for determining when something is assembled from imported parts. We know that certain rifles are not importable, and there are very specific parts counts for popular rifles. Other than shotguns that were "assault weapons" under the federal AWB's "two feature" test, ATF has been much less consistent on shotguns. For example, I have three letters from private individuals to ATF asking about very similar shotguns that all have different parts counts from Firearms Technology Branch.

The biggest bar to 922(r) prosecutions for shotguns is that there is no notice of what is and is not importable because importation decisions are not made public. The importer submits the firearm to ATF for approval, and ATF either approves or denies the application for importation. Letters that ATF has sent to individuals do not put anyone on notice other than the individual that a certain configuration might not be importable. And, even then, the letters should not be able to be used against the individual (at least that is how individual revenue rulings work on other tax matters and ATF has just continued to issue these rulings even after it was moved to DoJ). Notice is a fundamental requirement of due process, so any criminal prosecution under 922(r) would have to show that the "assembler" was on notice that the assembled configuration was unimportable.

This is not legal advice, and nothing in this post is intended to create an attorney-client relationship.

The information above follows what I understand. That said, this is the advice posted on Beretta's 1301 web page:

ATF does not allow the importation of a shotgun with a high-capacity magazine under the belief that such a feature is "non-sporting" and thus violates Federal prohibitions on the importation of "non-sporting" firearms. ATF also prohibits a firearm importer from bringing a firearm into the country in a sporting version (for example, with a lower magazine capacity) and then converting it to a so-called "non-sporting" version by either changing the magazine tube or providing an extended magazine tube to its customers to allow the shotgun to hold more shells.

Please note that this instruction from ATF only applies to the importer of the shotgun because the Federal restriction is an import restriction only. Non-importers (for example, consumers who did not import the shotgun but now own or possess it) are allowed by federal law (unless prohibited from doing so by State or local law) to convert their shotgun into a higher capacity firearm by replacing the original magazine tube with a higher capacity magazine tube.

[joshs]

The information above follows what I understand. That said, this is the advice posted on Beretta's 1301 web page:

ATF does not allow the importation of a shotgun with a high-capacity magazine under the belief that such a feature is "non-sporting" and thus violates Federal prohibitions on the importation of "non-sporting" firearms. ATF also prohibits a firearm importer from bringing a firearm into the country in a sporting version (for example, with a lower magazine capacity) and then converting it to a so-called "non-sporting" version by either changing the magazine tube or providing an extended magazine tube to its customers to allow the shotgun to hold more shells.

Please note that this instruction from ATF only applies to the importer of the shotgun because the Federal restriction is an import restriction only. Non-importers (for example, consumers who did not import the shotgun but now own or possess it) are allowed by federal law (unless prohibited from doing so by State or local law) to convert their shotgun into a higher capacity firearm by replacing the original magazine tube with a higher capacity magazine tube.

This is incorrect. If ATF published clear guidance that adding an extended magazine to a 1301 made it unimportable, then it would be illegal for any person to assemble it into that configuration without getting the requisite number of US parts.

[Spr1]

Beretta appears to be offering flawed legal advice. Not good on multiple levels.

[peterb]

I see that the 1301 Tactical has a fixed cylinder choke, and the Competition takes Optima HP screw-in chokes.
Has anyone here tried the Tactical with slugs? Some slugs seem to prefer an IC choke to a C. I know Remington has gone to fixed IC on most of their law enforcement line.

[DocGKR]

My 1301 Tactical put five 1 oz Brenneke slugs into a 3" circle at 50 yds when I zero'd it. It did NOT like Winchester low recoil Foster slugs--they made a 10" pattern, not a group...

[TR675]

My 1301 Tactical put five 1 oz Brenneke slugs into a 3" circle at 50 yds when I zero'd it. It did NOT like Winchester low recoil Foster slugs--they made a 10" pattern, not a group...

I had the same results with the Winchester and an 870 cylinder bore. 6" groups at 25 yds from a rest.

[Dave J]

Have any of you 1301 Tactical owners tested your for accuracy with Federal Truball slugs yet?

[Spr1]

My 1301 Tactical put five 1 oz Brenneke slugs into a 3" circle at 50 yds when I zero'd it. It did NOT like Winchester low recoil Foster slugs--they made a 10" pattern, not a group...

How well does it pattern buckshot at 15 or 20?

[DocGKR]

Spr1: Federal Flight Control #1 buckshot keeps all 15 .30 caliber pellets on the target out to 35+ yds...

Dave J: Federal Truball Deep Penetrator (PB127 DPRS) slugs are what I am going to shoot next.

[Spr1]

Impressive combo. My Vang Comp'd 870 would barely do that with the Fed low recoil 00.

[jlw]

So, would $879 be a good price on these?

(The question is mainly academic pending determination as to whether or not we are trained enough to have them.)

[TheTrevor]

So, would $879 be a good price on these?

(The question is mainly academic pending determination as to whether or not we are trained enough to have them.)

I was not aware that these were available in a full-auto variant. You guys get all the fun toys.

[sheriffoconee]

I was not aware that these were available in a full-auto variant. You guys get all the fun toys.

We are only interested in the detachable magazine full auto version. Tube mags aren't tactical enough for us

[DocGKR]

That would be a very good price.

I recommend the 1301 Tactical for a shotgun that is going to be carried a lot and shot a little; the larger loading port on the 1301 Comp makes it much better for a shotgun that is going to get run hard and needs to be reloaded rapidly.

[secondstoryguy]

Does anyone have any ideas on a replacement front sight for the 1301 tactical? Maybe something a little thinner or better yet fiber optic.

[HCM]

So, would $879 be a good price on these?

(The question is mainly academic pending determination as to whether or not we are trained enough to have them.)

Yes. Most places are asking about $1k, Though S.A.W. in DFW area has them for $849. I know this because I have been fondling 1301 tacticals when I encounter them. GJM is a very, very bad man .........

PS - These scream for an Aimpoint mirco.

[HCM]

I believe, based on having Jim Brockman look at the TX4, that there isn't enough material/clearance to be able to screw the trail to the fore end, hence the Briley extension or custom mount Brockman made for me that clamps to the barrel.

Could you post a picture of the mount when you get a chance ?

[HCM]

Beretta / Elzetta light mount

http://www.berettausa.com/products/tactical-flashlight-mount-for-shotgun/

[LOKNLOD]

I got to fondle a 1301 tactical today. Very nice. If I could find a 1301 comp it would already be home with me. (If I could justify it I'd buy one of each, and a matching a400 sporting type variant)

[Spr1]

I was able to handle a 1301 Tactical today and could not believe how well it came to the shoulder and pointed. It was amazingly light.
I have discovered a new need.....

[LOKNLOD]

I got to fondle a 1301 tactical today. Very nice. If I could find a 1301 comp it would already be home with me. (If I could justify it I'd buy one of each, and a matching a400 sporting type variant)

Since this I have actually tracked down and purchased a 1301 comp ( 21") but much to my chagrin I have yet to shoot it due to a sadistic mix of honey-dos and kidney stones.

[NoLock]

Any updates as to attaching a light and reliability? I contacted laser devices about their magazine weapon light about a month ago and it wasn't available yet.

Heard a rumor that Mesa will be making short LOP stocks for it, anyone else?

Is the operating system susceptible to reliability issues when things are added (light, side saddle, etc) like I've heard with the m1 and m2?

[GJM]

Any updates as to attaching a light and reliability? I contacted laser devices about their magazine weapon light about a month ago and it wasn't available yet.

Heard a rumor that Mesa will be making short LOP stocks for it, anyone else?

Is the operating system susceptible to reliability issues when things are added (light, side saddle, etc) like I've heard with the m1 and m2?

I heard Beretta was working on fore ends with rail. Briley makes a + 2 with rail. The Benelli M1 and M2 are inertia operated, and more susceptible to weight. I use a side saddle attached with velcro/adhesive.

[tremiles]

Any updates as to attaching a light and reliability? I contacted laser devices about their magazine weapon light about a month ago and it wasn't available yet.

Heard a rumor that Mesa will be making short LOP stocks for it, anyone else?

Is the operating system susceptible to reliability issues when things are added (light, side saddle, etc) like I've heard with the m1 and m2?

Nordic makes their MXT extension for it and offers a coupler with a 1913 section. They also have a QD socket attachment for the coupler.

[Unobtanium]

Weighs about two pounds less, more reliable with a range of loads, far better stock/sight/rail design. Faster cycling, too.

How forgiving? I have owned 4 Benelli M4's, including #555 M1014. I have never had any issues running ammunition as light as 2.75 dram skeet loads, Ranger reduced buckshot, etc. The only round that would not cycle was the Winlite Feather buckshot loads, and it almost made it. My Benelli M1014/M4's are the weapons I would pick over my Glock, M&P, Daniel Defense AR's, etc. if someone said "Lets go shot-for-shot and whowever's weapon fails first owes the other $100+ their ammo." They are just dead-nuts stone reliable when I set them up correctly.


I heard Beretta was working on fore ends with rail. Briley makes a + 2 with rail. The Benelli M1 and M2 are inertia operated, and more susceptible to weight. I use a side saddle attached with velcro/adhesive.

This is a gas-gun, and weight should actually HELP it.


Spr1: Federal Flight Control #1 buckshot keeps all 15 .30 caliber pellets on the target out to 35+ yds...

Dave J: Federal Truball Deep Penetrator (PB127 DPRS) slugs are what I am going to shoot next.

What is the choke on this barrel? Is it backbored or "oversize" from the typical 0.728" Ber/Ben ID? I have read it is fixed, and apparently uses their super awesome forcing-cone. Also, is the barrel chrome-lined as typical for Beretta/Benelli? I have tried FC out of Benelli barrels/chokes, and even down to IC, it had an ugly pattern past 20 yards. If this barrel is backbored and CYL, I can see it doing very well. Howe does "regular" buck pattern? I found the Truball DP slugs to perform abysmally in my M4, and a friend;s M590A1, as a datapoint.


My 1301 Tactical put five 1 oz Brenneke slugs into a 3" circle at 50 yds when I zero'd it. It did NOT like Winchester low recoil Foster slugs--they made a 10" pattern, not a group...

I have found shotguns to be very picky about slugs. Remington Fosters (1oz@1560fps) and Brenneke Classic Magnums (2.75") have never let me down, though.


Picked up a Beretta 1301 21" Comp today...

You really are loving this thing! I remember I spoke with you a while back (years) re: Benelli M4, and you were concerned with:

-Receivers can be bent.
-Lights are hard to mount.

Similarly, this weapon has an alloy receiver, and you have said in this thread that a light mount continues to prove less than optimal, yet you now have 2 flavors of this koolaid. Why? I have sold my Benelli M1014, and damned if just a week later after visiting my property in NW AR and seeing that dense foliage and rolling mountainside, I want another 12ga. I take your opinion very carefully into consideration, and can see that you love this thing. What about it is so appealing? What is superior?

Since you have it in-hand, also, what is this talk of "gaskets scraping pistons" in the literature? Is there anything rubber/polymer wiping anything, or are we talking metal-on-metal non-wear issue components? So far all I can see is the FN/Winchester style looking piston and a spring, in all the photos. Is this a "scrub it with a brass toothbrush once a year if you want and forget about it" type operating system, or does it involve Remington 11-87esque parts? A picture or link to one of it layed bare would be exceptional, if you have one handy!


Murdering everyone at the local orphanage is pretty much up to you, too. And just like modifying your firearm in contravention of 922(r) it would be a crime if you did it. That ATF doesn't run around house to house checking isn't the same as saying it's legal.

This is what Beretta has to say about it on their website:

NOTE FOR U.S. CUSTOMERS: In conformance to federal law, the magazine-extension tube is available only as an after-market accessory that the customer may purchase separately and install.

Similarly, Taran Butler has never had an issue with HIS Beretta's. Does the BATFE respect celebrity status? Do we even know the "parts count" on this gun?

[HCL3]

How are y'all mounting slings on these?

[GJM]

There are swivel positions for a simple carry sling, but folks are using a Briley or equivalent plus two extension with rail for a light and TAC sling forward position. Beretta had a side QR AR style push swivel on the side of the rear butt stock. Understand they are also working on a fore end with sections of Pic rail.

[Spr1]

Is the rear sight and pic rail polymer on these?

[GJM]

Is the rear sight and pic rail polymer on these?

Negative.

[Spr1]

Excellent. Thanks

[MSparks909]

What is the choke on this barrel? Is it backbored or "oversize" from the typical 0.728" Ber/Ben ID? I have read it is fixed, and apparently uses their super awesome forcing-cone. Also, is the barrel chrome-lined as typical for Beretta/Benelli? I have tried FC out of Benelli barrels/chokes, and even down to IC, it had an ugly pattern past 20 yards. If this barrel is backbored and CYL, I can see it doing very well. Howe does "regular" buck pattern? I found the Truball DP slugs to perform abysmally in my M4, and a friend;s M590A1, as a datapoint.

Since you have it in-hand, also, what is this talk of "gaskets scraping pistons" in the literature? Is there anything rubber/polymer wiping anything, or are we talking metal-on-metal non-wear issue components? So far all I can see is the FN/Winchester style looking piston and a spring, in all the photos. Is this a "scrub it with a brass toothbrush once a year if you want and forget about it" type operating system, or does it involve Remington 11-87esque parts? A picture or link to one of it layed bare would be exceptional, if you have one handy!

I don't have the 1301 but I have the A400 Xtreme as my duck/dove/clays gun. The 1301's operating system is based off the "Blink" gas system found in the A400 Xtreme. There is no rubber or polymer wiping anything on the piston. The piston is grooved with teeth and this helps to scrape the carbon as the piston cycles back and forth (the teeth look like the teeth used to ratchet suppressors onto flash hiders/muzzle brakes). I apply FIREclean to the piston/piston bore and once in a blue moon I'll wipe out the carbon and spray with gun cleaner and scrub it out with a plastic brush. You can use a wire brush, but the carbon buildup has not been that bad in my experience. I haven't cleaned my gun's piston system since before last duck season. I've been running it to see how long it will go. So far so good, with 1200 rounds expended since beginning of duck season. Everything from 7/8oz. 2 3/4 to 1 9/16oz. 3 1/2" shells. If I still haven't had any problems by beginning of duck season this year, I'll still probably clean it "just because." I'll get some pics up tomorrow morning.

The barrel on my A400 is backbored/oversized. Barrel is chrome lined. A couple passed with a boresnake coated in some oil cleans it up to a mirror shine.

Again, I don't have experience with the 1301, but since my A400 Xtreme is the "parent" gun of the 1301, everything I said should carry over. If my facts are wrong, I apologize.

[Unobtanium]

Negative.

I had read that it was. Where did this rumor start?

[GJM]

I had read that it was. Where did this rumor start?

No idea.

I happened to have my TX4 with me, on the way to a match, to show a buddy. Rail is metal, and rear sight, marked LPA, is metal. Same for the rail (metal) on my 1301. I don't own a 1301 Tactical, but the one I shot at the Beretta class last weekend looked the same as my TX4.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/imagejpg1_zps42bee672.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/imagejpg1_zps42bee672.jpg.html)

[Unobtanium]

No idea.

I happened to have my TX4 with me, on the way to a match, to show a buddy. Rail is metal, and rear sight, marked LPA, is metal. Same for the rail (metal) on my 1301. I don't own a 1301 Tactical, but the one I shot at the Beretta class last weekend looked the same as my TX4.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/imagejpg1_zps42bee672.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/imagejpg1_zps42bee672.jpg.html)

Interesting, thanks!

[Unobtanium]

So, money aside, why should I buy a 1301 instead of a Benelli M4 with a full-size mag and C-stock?

[Spr1]

Can you change enough things on the M4 to get below ten 922R parts and install a collapsing (I believe the factory version is pinned open) stock with a full length mag?

[Spr1]

I had read that it was. Where did this rumor start?

There is at least one video review online asserting the components mentioned were polymer. That was why I asked the question.

[Unobtanium]

Can you change enough things on the M4 to get below ten 922R parts and install a collapsing (I believe the factory version is pinned open) stock with a full length mag?

Yes, and no, factory stock is not pinned.

[GJM]

So, money aside, why should I buy a 1301 instead of a Benelli M4 with a full-size mag and C-stock?

Because a 1301 shoots circles (speed) around an M4 (I have or have owned M1,M2,M4), weighs nearly two pounds less than a M4 with comparable recoil, and has a far better stock than the C or fixed M4 stock. Costs a lot less, too, although I would pay more for a 1301 than M4.

[Unobtanium]

Because a 1301 shoots circles (speed) around an M4 (I have or have owned M1,M2,M4), weighs nearly two pounds less than a M4 with comparable recoil, and has a far better stock than the C or fixed M4 stock. Costs a lot less, too, although I would pay more for a 1301 than M4.

The weight is a fair point...but what's weaker for it? Even the M4 has a somewhat thin barrel, in my opinion. How is it faster? None of the split times I've seen people getting with the 1301 can touch an M4. They are stuck shooting .14-.17 splits with the 1301 from all the reviews I've seen.

[DocGKR]

Having used Benelli M1 and M4 in LE and military settings, I'll take a 1301 ANY DAY. Likewise I prefer the 1301 compared to the Benelli M2 in civilian shooting situations. As always, YMMV...

[GJM]

The weight is a fair point...but what's weaker for it? Even the M4 has a somewhat thin barrel, in my opinion. How is it faster? None of the split times I've seen people getting with the 1301 can touch an M4. They are stuck shooting .14-.17 splits with the 1301 from all the reviews I've seen.

Benny Hill, who knows a little bit about shotguns, says the M4 is not competitive in 3 Gun, because a M2 shoots circles around the M4. The 1301 is reportedly 30 percent faster yet than a M2.

Regardless of weight, or cycle speed, the 1301 is a much more comfortable shotgun for me to shoot than the M2 or M4 with Brenneke slugs.

[Unobtanium]

Benny Hill, who knows a little bit about shotguns, says the M4 is not competitive in 3 Gun, because a M2 shoots circles around the M4. The 1301 is reportedly 30 percent faster yet than a M2.

Regardless of weight, or cycle speed, the 1301 is a much more comfortable shotgun for me to shoot than the M2 or M4 with Brenneke slugs.

Benny Hill is talking about gaming and this is because it's lighter and has a vent rib and 22 inch barrel and so on. In 3 gun it is better. For sure.

I'm curious to look at one now though for sure. Love my m4s in the past but am curious.

The 30% faster business is likely false or only technically correct such as measuring peak carrier speed or something meaningless. Regardless, my finger can't outrun any of em.

[Unobtanium]

Having used Benelli M1 and M4 in LE and military settings, I'll take a 1301 ANY DAY. Likewise I prefer the 1301 compared to the Benelli M2 in civilian shooting situations. As always, YMMV...

I've benefitted a lot from listening to you over the years. Why do you feel the 1301 is superior to a properly equipped m4 benelli?

[GJM]

I think you just need to shoot a 1301 and decide for yourself.

[Unobtanium]

I think you just need to shoot a 1301 and decide for yourself.
That's expensive. I'd probably lose a few hundred on resale. Trying to learn what I can for free.

[Unobtanium]

After looking at some pictures of the design on-line, I see a few things I don't like.

-Carrier welded to the rails of the action bars.
-Gas rings are very thin. A'la 1187. Those leaded up when slugs were used a good bit, I hear. Never owned one, always sticking with Benelli's.
-Lots of stampings/pressed parts in the trigger group/latch.

Basically, my take on it is that it's a good weapon, but I would rather pay another $400 or whatever and get an upscale version as well-built as a Benelli. The design is there, but the build cuts obvious corners. Sure, I could go handle one in person, but the facts of construction remain, and I'll stick in the Benelli camp, for better or worse, until Beretta either beefs it up, or enough rounds have been put downrange on South American bird hunts and in 3-gun, etc. for me to be confident that the lesser construction methods and materials are still more than adequate.
-

[DocGKR]

The 1301 and its sibling the A400 seem to have racked up quite an impressive record in 3-gun and various shotgun sports of late...


"You really are loving this thing! I remember I spoke with you a while back (years) re: Benelli M4, and you were concerned with:

-Receivers can be bent.
-Lights are hard to mount."

Those were Benelli M1's that had those problems, not M1014/M4's.

[Unobtanium]

The 1301 and its sibling the A400 seem to have racked up quite an impressive record in 3-gun and various shotgun sports of late...



Those were Benelli M1's that had those problems, not M1014/M4's.

I had raised that point, as well. Have you seen/treated M4's identically and noticed no bending issues?

[GJM]

I had raised that point, as well. Have you seen/treated M4's identically and noticed no bending issues?

To better understand your perspective, it would be helpful to understand how you will use this shotgun, what loads and an approximate annual round count?

I use my 1301 primarily for bear protection, loaded with Brenneke slugs, low by 3 gun standard round counts, and I carry it for hours most days.

[Unobtanium]

To better understand your perspective, it would be helpful to understand how you will use this shotgun, what loads and an approximate annual round count?

I use my 1301 primarily for bear protection, loaded with Brenneke slugs, low by 3 gun standard round counts, and I carry it for hours most days.

Target shooting, home defense, bear defense, deer hunting, and lots and lots of dumping lead down-range because...it's fun with a shotgun and destructible targets! My shotguns have always been my highest round-count weapons as ammo is relatively affordable and they are just so much fun.

I was referencing a conversation that I had with Dr. Roberts years ago. He had mentioned the M1 receivers bending, when I asked why he was against the M4. I argued that the M1 wasn't an M4, and he said that the M4 had not been observed enough, as I recall, and that it could have the same issue. Perhaps now he has observed that it is not an issue with the M4. I do not know, but that seems to be what he is indicating, as I recall he was vehemently against an alloy receiver shotgun, and here he embraces it.

The M4 will give me 9 rounds for bear protection. Bear is somewhat less prevalent where I will be than in many areas, but black bear are still quite populated in the region. The area just begs for a shotgun.

http://i62.tinypic.com/11ie2ac.jpg

[DocGKR]

Like I've stated previously, I've seen several M1's deadlined due to damaged receivers. Almost all the M4's I saw were M1014's in Marine service--no receiver damage that I came across; can't say I've seen too many Benelli M4's in LE use. Likewise, I've never heard or seen of any receiver damage to A400's/1301's.

[Unobtanium]

Like I've stated previously, I've seen several M1's deadlined due to damaged receivers. Almost all the M4's I saw were M1014's in Marine service--no receiver damage that I came across; can't say I've seen too many Benelli M4's in LE use. Likewise, I've never heard or seen of any receiver damage to A400's/1301's.

Thanks! I think LAPD is the only domestic agency which has bought them in large numbers, although I have been wrong before.

[Ber1301TAC]

I bought a 1301 tactical I'm pretty impressed with it , a bit more recoil than my mossberg 500 , only question was why the gun is advertised as 5+1 and I can only fit 4+1

[GJM]

I bought a 1301 tactical I'm pretty impressed with it , a bit more recoil than my mossberg 500 , only question was why the gun is advertised as 5+1 and I can only fit 4+1

If you remove (pry out) the plastic retainer that captures the mag spring, you can get five in with room to spare.

[DocGKR]

All of the ones I've shot take 5+1 out of the box...

[Unobtanium]

Some shells are longer than others.

[Ber1301TAC]

I tried winchester buck and slugs also spartan

[Ber1301TAC]

If you remove (pry out) the plastic retainer that captures the mag spring, you can get five in with room to spare.
What part is that exactly?

[GJM]

Pull the mag cap. Note spring is retained, with cap off, by a plastic piece. Pry that plastic piece out. Spring is no longer captive, but there is more space in tube.

[Ber1301TAC]

Thanks im going to try later today also can you ghost load this shotgun

[Ber1301TAC]

Pull the mag cap. Note spring is retained, with cap off, by a plastic piece. Pry that plastic piece out. Spring is no longer captive, but there is more space in tube.

you mean the piece that holds the spring in ? then every time I take the gun apart the spring comes out when I unscrew the cap ?

[DocGKR]

Yes--that is what is supposed to happen, just like on Benellis, Remingtons, Mossbergs, etc... You want to be able to easily access the spring and follower.

[Ber1301TAC]

Yes--that is what is supposed to happen, just like on Benellis, Remingtons, Mossbergs, etc... You want to be able to easily access the spring and follower.

Thanks guys I got it, scratched the bottom of my barrel a bit trying to shove that thing down though. Fits 5 shells now though, now I have to learn how to ghost load this thing

[DocGKR]

While I don't have much use for the technique, carrier (ghost) loading works the same on a 1301 as on a Benelli, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf7agIzbTvs.

[DocGKR]

For three decades, Remington 870's have been my go to shotguns--typically using 18" or shorter cylinder barrels for duty/work use and 24" or longer choked barrels for sporting/game purposes. As noted earlier, in the past few months I've begun to play with Beretta 1301's. Below is a comparison of work and game 870's compared with similarly configured 1301's.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/workandplaytubes_zps379650ec.jpg

Each gun sports Briley magazine tube extensions with the Picatinny rail and sling swivel options, allowing mounting of a light and a convenient sling attachment point. In addition, each has BFG VCAS 2 point sling, Aimpoint H1 RDS, and uses SF EAG Fury lights in LaRue mounts.

Keep in mind that the 1301 Tactical has an 18" barrel w/3" chamber, ghost ring sights, 3" length receiver, and comes with the Pic Rail installed, while 1301 Comps have 21" or 24" barrels w/3" chambers, vent rib and bead sights, 3.5" length receiver (bigger loading port), receiver is drilled for pic rail but it is not included ($65 option from Beretta). The 1301's are softer shooting than the Benelli M1/M2, but not quite as soft as the Remington Versamax--however the Beretta is substantially lighter than the Versamax and is much quicker on target. The VersaMax has a larger loading port, but the Remington lifter often needs some work to rapidly load well; the Beretta loads fine out of the box.

Both the 1301 Comp and the 1301 Tactical have 5 round magazines, but a variety of vendors make magazine extensions. As I wrote earlier in this thread, I recommend the 1301 Tactical for a shotgun that is going to be carried a lot and primarily shot defensively using buckshot and slugs; the larger loading port on the 1301 Comp makes it much better for a shotgun that is going to get run hard and needs to be reloaded rapidly. The 1301 Tactical has a fixed cylinder choke, while the 1301 Comp's use the Beretta Optima HP Chokes, providing more versatility for sporting purposes--I tend to run extended Briley "light modified" chokes on my game guns, as this works adequately for everything from birdshot to slugs.

Below is a comparison of similarly configured 1301's, including the 24" barrel Comp, 21" barrel Comp, and 18" barrel Tactical.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/1301_zpsc60b8682.jpg

Note that since the 1301's have very long forends, I use the 3 cel EAG Fury lights in order to move the push button a bit further back to ease activation, plus what is not to like about 1000 lumens! A better solution will be for Beretta to design a forend with built in attachment rails. Each 1301 also has a Wilderness Products rear sling adapter.

[Unobtanium]

At its price point, the 1301 looks killer! However, taking price out of the equation, I still lean to a properly configured Benelli M4, I think. However, the price difference between the two makes it like comparing a Savage M110 and a GA Precision rifle when the goal is 0-300m. Either will work just fine, likely.

[GJM]

At its price point, the 1301 looks killer! However, taking price out of the equation, I still lean to a properly configured Benelli M4, I think. However, the price difference between the two makes it like comparing a Savage M110 and a GA Precision rifle when the goal is 0-300m. Either will work just fine, likely.

Just personal opinion, but I prefer my two 1301 shotguns to the Benelli M4 I had, even if the 1301 cost more than the M4.

[Unobtanium]

Just personal opinion, but I prefer my two 1301 shotguns to the Benelli M4 I had, even if the 1301 cost more than the M4.
I like the m4 because it is proven.
It holds 9 rounds vs 7.
It has a fixed mod choke vs. Cyl.
It only weighs about 6 to 8 oz more empty.
It has a 3 position stock that on the mid setting is perfect for optic use.

Why is the 1301 better in your opinion? Now granted. This is how my personal m4s have been set up. You can't buy them that way.

[GJM]

Here is just one 36 page thread on Enos on the 1301:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=179930

There are numerous other threads at Enos on the 1301.

You have to go back to 2010, to even find a "Benelli M4" thread, and it is titled "why not a a Benelli M4."

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107529&page=2

I had a M4 with the standard, factory collapsible and Mesa Tactical stocks. About five minutes shooting a 1301 will surely answer all your questions as to why I prefer shooting a 1301 over a M4.

[Unobtanium]

Here is just one 36 page thread on Enos on the 1301:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=179930

There are numerous other threads at Enos on the 1301.

You have to go back to 2010, to even find a "Benelli M4" thread, and it is titled "why not a a Benelli M4."

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107529&page=2

I had a M4 with the standard, factory collapsible and Mesa Tactical stocks. About five minutes shooting a 1301 will surely answer all your questions as to why I prefer shooting a 1301 over a M4.

I guess I need to attend a shotgun tactical course.

A) I would learn something. Probably lots of somethings.
B) That's the only place I know I could get hands-on with one, if someone brought one.

Enos' forum is focused on 3-gun. The M4 doesn't lend itself well to that, at all. It's due to the configuration of the weapon and not the mechanics, though. 18.5" barrel, inferior choke system, limited capacity and 922r hurdles, cost, lack of a proper rib/bead, and so on and so forth. It's a combat shotgun and not a 3-gun shotgun. Kindof why you don't see police departments issuing STI handguns, yet they are popular in 3-gun.

[DocGKR]

The 1301 Comp shown above holds 10 rounds in the tube and can be loaded to a total of 12 if also loading the chamber and carrier; other guys have put longer mag extension tubes on them--I know one guy running a 12 rd tube...

[GJM]

While the 1301 has been very well received in the 3 Gun world, my reason for preferring it over the M4 is for use as a defensive shotgun. I primarily use the 1301 as a bear protection shotgun. I find the stock on the 1301 to be better than any of the three stocks I tried on my M4, the 1301 to be significantly lighter, and the 1301 to be easier for me to shoot with the Brenneke slugs that are my standard load.

This thread is called "Beretta 1301 Tactical." Many posting in the thread have one or more 1301 shotguns, and are very pleased with them. These same folks have owned and/or shot Benelli M4 shotguns. You seem to want to conclude, without ever shooting a 1301, why your M4 is better. If I thought the M4 was a better shotgun, I would still own them. Don't be surprised that the 1301 owners, in the "1301 thread" seem so pro 1301.

[Unobtanium]

While the 1301 has been very well received in the 3 Gun world, my reason for preferring it over the M4 is for use as a defensive shotgun. I primarily use the 1301 as a bear protection shotgun. I find the stock on the 1301 to be better than any of the three stocks I tried on my M4, the 1301 to be significantly lighter, and the 1301 to be easier for me to shoot with the Brenneke slugs that are my standard load.

This thread is called "Beretta 1301 Tactical." Many posting in the thread have one or more 1301 shotguns, and are very pleased with them. These same folks have owned and/or shot Benelli M4 shotguns. You seem to want to conclude, without ever shooting a 1301, why your M4 is better. If I thought the M4 was a better shotgun, I would still own them. Don't be surprised that the 1301 owners, in the "1301 thread" seem so pro 1301.

Not at all! I just can't tell the difference between a shotgun that weighs 5-6oz more or less than the next, so the weight difference is lost on me.

The stock is the real selling point as far as I am concerned of the 1301. Everything else, I feel the M4 is better. However...I have not shot one. I would like to. However, I don't want to pay $1K to do it. So I am relegated to E-research, sadly.

[GJM]

Not at all! I just can't tell the difference between a shotgun that weighs 5-6oz more or less than the next, so the weight difference is lost on me.

The stock is the real selling point as far as I am concerned of the 1301. Everything else, I feel the M4 is better. However...I have not shot one. I would like to. However, I don't want to pay $1K to do it. So I am relegated to E-research, sadly.

Where are you located -- you shouldn't have to buy one to demo the 1301?

[Unobtanium]

Where are you located -- you shouldn't have to buy one to demo the 1301?

I don't know anyone who owns one. Shreveport, LA. No...I wouldn't bother asking anyone to visit this dump so I could shoot their 1301, lol!

[GJM]

I don't know anyone who owns one. Shreveport, LA. No...I wouldn't bother asking anyone to visit this dump so I could shoot their 1301, lol!

I would check to see if there are any 3 Gun matches held nearby, or post something on Enos in the 1301 thread, asking who is nearby with a 1301. If you want to come to Alaska, you can shoot mine, but that might be a little far.

[Ber1301TAC]

Guys i'm loving my 1301 tactical but with spartan buckshot im having at least 2 FTE out of every box (about 4 in total now) i'm wondering if its because it is a low brass buckshot or under powered. I was under the impression that this gun could shoot bird shot easily

[DocGKR]

I ran a bunch of 970 fps bonded buckshot without issues, as well as reduced recoil slugs and 00 buckshot. They have worked on all brass case head loads, including birdsot. The one load they choke on occasionally is the cheap Winchester white box 7 1/2 shot light target loads at 1145 fps--it seems to primarily be a problem with the nickel plated steel case head.

Federal Flight Control #1 buckshot keeps all 15 .30 caliber pellets on the target out to 35+ yds. Cheap 9 pellet S&B #00 buckshot keeps all the pellets on target out to around 20 yds or so.

Each of the 1301's can put five 1 oz Brenneke slugs into a 3" circle at 50 yds. They don't mind the S&B 1 oz slugs--typically getting 5-6" 5 shot groups at 50 yds. They did NOT like Winchester low recoil Foster slugs--these made a 10" pattern, not a group.

[Unobtanium]

I would check to see if there are any 3 Gun matches held nearby, or post something on Enos in the 1301 thread, asking who is nearby with a 1301. If you want to come to Alaska, you can shoot mine, but that might be a little far.

I have always wanted to go to Alaska, but yes, a bit far...
We should have some 3-gun matches around here. I specifically want to shoot the Tactical, though, and I bet it's all Comp.

[DocGKR]

They shoot exactly the same...

[Unobtanium]

I ran a bunch of 970 fps bonded buckshot without issues, as well as reduced recoil slugs and 00 buckshot. They have worked on all brass case head loads, including birdsot. The one load they choke on occasionally is the cheap Winchester white box 7 1/2 shot light target loads at 1145 fps--it seems to primarily be a problem with the nickel plated steel case head.

Federal Flight Control #1 buckshot keeps all 15 .30 caliber pellets on the target out to 35+ yds. Cheap 9 pellet S&B #00 buckshot keeps all the pellets on target out to around 20 yds or so.

Each of the 1301's can put five 1 oz Brenneke slugs into a 3" circle at 50 yds. They don't mind the S&B 1 oz slugs--typically getting 5-6" 5 shot groups at 50 yds. They did NOT like Winchester low recoil Foster slugs--these made a 10" pattern, not a group.

What load is this?

[DocGKR]

The old Choke Precision Bonded Buckshot LE pump-action load. Worked great. See: Roberts G, Lazzarini D, Pomerleau P. Wounding Effects of Choke™ 12 Gauge 00 Buckshot Loads Intended for Law Enforcement Duty Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin. AFTE Journal. 34(3):287-288, Summer 2002

[Unobtanium]

The old Choke Precision Bonded Buckshot LE pump-action load. Worked great. See: Roberts G, Lazzarini D, Pomerleau P. Wounding Effects of Choke™ 12 Gauge 00 Buckshot Loads Intended for Law Enforcement Duty Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin. AFTE Journal. 34(3):287-288, Summer 2002

Any place I could buy some? If I buy another Benelli M4, I would like to try to run it and see how that goes. I honestly do lean toward the M4 at this point because every time I google the A400 (same action), I come up with teething issues of the BLINK system. The Benelli M4 seems to function without such, as it had a rigorous development program, and probably a good bit of luck "getting it right".

So far:

-1301 is a few ounces lighter
-1301 has a killer stock (the real selling point for me out of all of this thread/info I have read)
-1301 allegedly recoils less.

Your accuracy is similar to my M4's with slugs. Here is a 25 yard 3-shot group: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=nn36le&s=6
Here is a 25 yard 3-shot group with 9-pellet buck, Winchester Ranger HD: http://i46.tinypic.com/wah72p.jpg

Also note, I am not trying to bag on the 1301, just learn a bit more, and, hey, it is a new product somewhat, I'm trying to compare to what I've known. I have seen and noted a few M4 guys in this thread switching to the 1301 happily. It gave me pause. I'm still thinking. What will likely happen is I will talk a friend into buying one, or buy one for someone for Christmas, and see how that goes.

[Slavex]

Recently got my M4 back from a buddy who chamfered the loading port for me and tuned the shell catch as well. Much much nicer to load now. As for how the gun runs, well, it's seen 2500 rounds through it now with two cleanings, only thing I've had issues with are the screws holding the rail on, they need to be loctited and I keep forgetting to do that. I through a mag extension on it so (and then made sure it would still only hold 5 rounds of 3 inch as per Canadian law) but it now holds 6 2.75 inch shells which works out to 8 for a ghost load, which is nice. Only the very lightest competition loads fail to feed reliably, everything else it eats quite nicely. Slugs and 00 Buck are also a lot nicer to shoot through it than through my 1100.
One thing I would change, if I could find it, would be to put a standard stock on it, I'm not a big fan of the collapsible pistil grip stock.

[DocGKR]

The Choke load is now unobtanium, as it is no longer made.

[Unobtanium]

Recently got my M4 back from a buddy who chamfered the loading port for me and tuned the shell catch as well. Much much nicer to load now. As for how the gun runs, well, it's seen 2500 rounds through it now with two cleanings, only thing I've had issues with are the screws holding the rail on, they need to be loctited and I keep forgetting to do that. I through a mag extension on it so (and then made sure it would still only hold 5 rounds of 3 inch as per Canadian law) but it now holds 6 2.75 inch shells which works out to 8 for a ghost load, which is nice. Only the very lightest competition loads fail to feed reliably, everything else it eats quite nicely. Slugs and 00 Buck are also a lot nicer to shoot through it than through my 1100.
One thing I would change, if I could find it, would be to put a standard stock on it, I'm not a big fan of the collapsible pistil grip stock.

What rail are you running on the Benelli? I have not had one come loose. What optic are you running on it?

[JM Campbell]

What rail are you running on the Benelli? I have not had one come loose. What optic are you running on it?

Can you start a m4 Benelli thread. I'm trying to follow this 1301 and getting m4/1301 mixed up. Thanks!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Unobtanium]

Can you start a m4 Benelli thread. I'm trying to follow this 1301 and getting m4/1301 mixed up. Thanks!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

No problem, I simply interjected it because it's a serious combat shotgun from the same company, and while at a different price-point, the comparison begs making.

[Slavex]

No optic, factory rail. Had a screw come loose from the stock tonight thankfully the "lock" washer was still in the cheek piece.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I don't know anyone who owns one. Shreveport, LA. No...I wouldn't bother asking anyone to visit this dump so I could shoot their 1301, lol!

Uno you *might* be able to get hands on w/ a 1301 @ a 3Gun Retro Mike & myself will be running on 29 June near S'port. We had one scheduled earlier this year but it was cancelled due to WX issues. We are planning on 3 more this year on the 5th Sun. of June, Aug. & Nov. Go to our FB page @ Old School 3Gun for more info., hope to have a Miculek & or Clark there, as they are our host's for this.

As to a SGN class, Tom Givens will be @ ETRPC for a 1 day SGN tuneup. Retro & myself will be there as we just came back from a Nyeti/HITs one day happening over in Dallas that was well worth our time & money but after all, it was those two scoundrels, so .......

Sorry for the lane drift, now back to the 1301 discussion.

[DocGKR]

Well the 1301 Tactical just digested 50 rounds of the previously problematic cheap Winchester white box 7 1/2 shot light target loads at 1145 fps without any issues, along with 25 rounds of buckshot and 25 rounds of slugs. Besides the Brenneke's, it really likes the S&B 1 oz slugs.

[Unobtanium]

Well the 1301 Tactical just digested 50 rounds of the previously problematic cheap Winchester white box 7 1/2 shot light target loads at 1145 fps without any issues, along with 25 rounds of buckshot and 25 rounds of slugs. Besides the Brenneke's, it really likes the S&B 1 oz slugs.

Good stuff! You've run yours a bit with a ton of random stuff. How is the gas-ring (I am sure semantics can factor, but I will call it that) faring? Any sign of crudding up?

Also where the extractor rotates against the lip of the barrel, any cutting there? I read the A400's were chewing that up, but wasn't causing any issues of function.

[DocGKR]

Nope and nope.

[Unobtanium]

Well the 1301 Tactical just digested 50 rounds of the previously problematic cheap Winchester white box 7 1/2 shot light target loads at 1145 fps without any issues, along with 25 rounds of buckshot and 25 rounds of slugs. Besides the Brenneke's, it really likes the S&B 1 oz slugs.

Will it cycle the military beanbag (shot-filled nylon bags they look like) rounds?

[Crews]

Guys i'm loving my 1301 tactical but with spartan buckshot im having at least 2 FTE out of every box (about 4 in total now) i'm wondering if its because it is a low brass buckshot or under powered. I was under the impression that this gun could shoot bird shot easily

Just out of curiosity, did you buy the gun new? If you did, how many rounds did you run through it before you tried the low recoil stuff?

[Crews]

Good stuff! You've run yours a bit with a ton of random stuff. How is the gas-ring (I am sure semantics can factor, but I will call it that) faring? Any sign of crudding up?
.

It's always a wonderful idea to keep your guns clean, no doubt....... But don't mistake this gun for a gun that doesn't run if it gets a little "crud" built up. This ain't your grandpaw'a old 1100

[DocGKR]

"Will it cycle the military beanbag (shot-filled nylon bags they look like) rounds?"

No idea since we have not shot any of those. As I mentioned earlier, each cycled the old Choke Precision Bonded Buckshot pump load at 970 f/s without any issues right out of the box.

[Spr1]

A guy on LF is reporting a polymer rail on his recent acquisition

[Unobtanium]

A guy on LF is reporting a polymer rail on his recent acquisition

My guess is that they had some rails left over from the TX4, and those were metal, because I have heard from a dealer that the rails and part of the rear sight assembly are polymer. I don't think anyone is lying as noone has a reason to. So, my thought is that it could be TX4 hardware is metal, and once used up, all will be polymer. The TX4 was half a grand more. I understand production scale/costs, but there is the A400, and all of the other shotguns by Beretta as well. I just can't see this economy of scale mattering 30% total item price. I guarantee some corner somewhere had to be cut. Whether it "matters", or not, something changed from the TX4 to the 1301 Tactical, and it wasn't the looks or operating system/number of components/etc. So that leaves QA/QC and materials.

[DocGKR]

My three have metal rails.

[Unobtanium]

My three have metal rails.

My sources claim polymer on sights and rails. This backs my theory on TX4 part carry over until gone.

[jimboy954]

I received my 1301 Tactical shotgun on Friday evening, June 13th, 2014. I was amazed at the smooth look and feel of the weapon itself. It was mind-numbing to stare at it, which was all I was allowed to do being that Fort Jackson Commissary folk had ordered a shotgun for me that was not in their system. Being that I was the first to request it, they were unable to sell it to me because they had no barcode to ring it up. But once the week long wait for the barcode was over, I was able to walk out with my baby.

Well, after staring it down for two nights, I finally got to shoot it on today. My wife and kids went along with me to the local range and helped me to break it in. I must say that it was not as smooth shooting as it is to look at. The blast is much more harsh than I ever thought it would be. I only shot 50 rounds of birdshot (1330 velocity & 11255 velocity) and was blown by the kick of the butt. It really moved me, and I am 255 pounds at 6". It is a workout on the shoulder.

Moreover, I also shot my brand new Mossberg 930 SPX Tactical shotgun during today's outing. I must admit that surprisingly I liked the action and handling of the Mossberg better than the Beretta. The Mossberg had 50 shots of the same load run through it with different results. The Mossberg was much more tame and easy on the shoulder. The Mossberg is heavier but kicks less. The Beretta is enjoyably light but harsh in the kicking department. Although I had different experiences, I have to say that I would have chosen exactly what I chose to go with, both of them.

In Conclusion, it would not be fair to make a conclusion at this point. I must in fairness to the new Beretta give the 1301 a longer trial period to prove itself. I love everything about the 1301 other than the strong kick. The breakdown of the Beretta is very easy. The toting of the weapon is very doable. And the look of it is awesome and increases the owner's pride in owning one. So do what you feel in your heart to do regarding buying this item. It's nice, but I immediately pick the Mossberg SPX at this point, though I ain't about to give up my new 1301 Tactical for nothing. One other note, I had a few jams and failures to eject with both weapons, but I have to contribute that to my family members not properly pulling the trigger. Each failure and jam were quickly corrected without any serious effort on my part to do so. However, when I shot the two shotguns, I did not experience a single jam or failure to eject, which is why I blame it on human error on the part of the users rather than on any defect within the shotguns.

[Unobtanium]

I received my 1301 Tactical shotgun on Friday evening, June 13th, 2014. I was amazed at the smooth look and feel of the weapon itself. It was mind-numbing to stare at it, which was all I was allowed to do being that Fort Jackson Commissary folk had ordered a shotgun for me that was not in their system. Being that I was the first to request it, they were unable to sell it to me because they had no barcode to ring it up. But once the week long wait for the barcode was over, I was able to walk out with my baby.

Well, after staring it down for two nights, I finally got to shoot it on today. My wife and kids went along with me to the local range and helped me to break it in. I must say that it was not as smooth shooting as it is to look at. The blast is much more harsh than I ever thought it would be. I only shot 50 rounds of birdshot (1330 velocity & 11255 velocity) and was blown by the kick of the butt. It really moved me, and I am 255 pounds at 6". It is a workout on the shoulder.

Moreover, I also shot my brand new Mossberg 930 SPX Tactical shotgun during today's outing. I must admit that surprisingly I liked the action and handling of the Mossberg better than the Beretta. The Mossberg had 50 shots of the same load run through it with different results. The Mossberg was much more tame and easy on the shoulder. The Mossberg is heavier but kicks less. The Beretta is enjoyably light but harsh in the kicking department. Although I had different experiences, I have to say that I would have chosen exactly what I chose to go with, both of them.

In Conclusion, it would not be fair to make a conclusion at this point. I must in fairness to the new Beretta give the 1301 a longer trial period to prove itself. I love everything about the 1301 other than the strong kick. The breakdown of the Beretta is very easy. The toting of the weapon is very doable. And the look of it is awesome and increases the owner's pride in owning one. So do what you feel in your heart to do regarding buying this item. It's nice, but I immediately pick the Mossberg SPX at this point, though I ain't about to give up my new 1301 Tactical for nothing. One other note, I had a few jams and failures to eject with both weapons, but I have to contribute that to my family members not properly pulling the trigger. Each failure and jam were quickly corrected without any serious effort on my part to do so. However, when I shot the two shotguns, I did not experience a single jam or failure to eject, which is why I blame it on human error on the part of the users rather than on any defect within the shotguns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq74aiXn1b4

This may be of some help.

[ydennekb]

Just got the Tactical last week and I have to say that mine kicks like hell as well. I was attempting to use the push pull method but the fore end would just slide right through my support hand fingers. I'll be looking into a Limbsaver.

Oh, and for the record, I'm the guy from Lightfighter with the plastic rail.

[Unobtanium]

Kindof what I've been thinking. Physics dictates that a sub 7 pound 12ga will kick. Period.

[GJM]

Practice some with a Benelli M2, and the 1301 won't feel so bad. Or do what Nyeti's avatar suggests.

[DocGKR]

Wow...I find the Beretta 1301's to be a very soft shooting gauge, particularly compared to the Benelli M1/M2's. The Versamax is a bit softer shooting than the 1301, but I prefer the lighter weight and faster handling of the Beretta.

[ydennekb]

To be fair, I have zero training with a shotgun so this could be completely a problem specific to myself and the way I'm trying to run the gun. I've fired a lot of 45-70's, 375 H&H, etc with no problems with the recoil so I was pretty surprised myself, hell I think my last 870P was more controllable.

[jimboy954]

Wow...I find the Beretta 1301's to be a very soft shooting gauge, particularly compared to the Benelli M1/M2's. The Versamax is a bit softer shooting than the 1301, but I prefer the lighter weight and faster handling of the Beretta.

On the positive side, the 1301 Tactical shoots very accurately. It is ready to defend right out of the case. I am very happy about the sights and the accuracy of this shotgun. The cleaning and disassembling is very easy as well, which keeps one from dreading the maintenance part of owning this particular shotgun.

On the immediate but hopefully temporary negative side the 1301, which is only my opinion based upon 50 rounds of shooting it, the 1301 is pretty harsh in the recoil department. Perhaps it's because this shotgun is so very light and pleasant to hold and handle compared to others in it's class. Although I hear the comments regarding the softness or softer shooting of the 1301 Tactical, I have to disagree. However, to be fair, I must admit that I have not shot the M1/2/or 4, which may indeed pack a greater punch. But that does not take away from my purchased experiences with my new 1301 Tactical. This gun really kicks the demons out of my shoulder in every position I try. I may be adding to the kick by my posturings, but that remains to be discovered by me.

I wish this particular shotgun did not kick as hard as it does, but it does. In fact, the recoil was so great that I lost my motivation to shoot it any longer on yesterday and instead took hold of the Mossberg SPX Tactical to complete my shooting for the day. With that being said, I wanted to not like the Mossberg, honestly. And I wanted to love, love, love the Beretta. But thus far, the Mossberg is my grabber. But no one better not touch my 1301 Tactical because that's still my purchased possession of a defense weapon that will remain as such as my love and desire for its' offerings increases upon use, adaptation, & skill.

Please note that I only decided to join this sight so that I could place my experience with the 1301 Tactical shotgun. When I was looking for sites and forums pertaining to this particular shotgun, there were very few, I mean very few. This forum that I am now a member of was the only site that had some good mentionings regarding the 1301. So in trying to help someone who may not have any experiences with the M1/2/3/4, or any other shotgun experience, I joined in on this conversation with lengthy inserts hoping to give others what I could not find during my process of debating within myself whether to buy or not to buy. My approach to the 1301 Tactical is not a professional approach, but it is an honest approach based upon my personal experience in owning and shooting this particular shotgun.

If you're on the fence of whether to buy or not to buy, and you know that the gun has a perhaps greater kick involved, and you're good with having this knowledge, then buy the 1301 Tactical. I believe that this is a good shotgun choice. I believe that the price of this shotgun with increase significantly upon greater discovery and use and increased postings by its owners. Perhaps this particular model will set a newer bar for home defense type weapons and tactical usage. This model shotgun has a lot of potential for those who are willing to take a chance with purchasing it and making it work for their particular use. So buy it if you can, and don't look back in regret.

[ydennekb]

Well I spoke with Beretta customer service again and was told that the Tactical model has always came with a polymer rail, never aluminum, fyi. He says he got that info from his parts manager and personally laid his hands on two tacticals and they were both polymer as well.

[DocGKR]

How much training and experience do you have with shotguns?

I ask, because as illustrated earlier in the thread, I have identically configured 870's and 1301's and when shot back to back with the same ammo on the same course of fire, the 1301's are substantially softer shooting.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/workandplaytubes_zps379650ec.jpg

[ydennekb]

I'm not sure who you're asking but I'll answer in case it was me.

Experience - I've shot clays and birds with long barreled bird guns and I used to own an 18" barreled 870P. With the 870 I had no trouble using push pull and had no problems with recoil at all, including using the 3" magnums.

Training - none with a shotgun.

I've been thinking about it and I was a bit sick the day I fired mine so it is completely possible that my "technique" may have contributed to the effect, or I may just not know what I'm doing at all! Or, as GJM implied, maybe I'm a sissy.

[jimboy954]

How much training and experience do you have with shotguns?

I ask, because as illustrated earlier in the thread, I have identically configured 870's and 1301's and when shot back to back with the same ammo on the same course of fire, the 1301's are substantially softer shooting.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/workandplaytubes_zps379650ec.jpg

Your supposed illustration and my combined military, corrections officer, and probation/parole experience coupled together actually has nothing to do with me commenting on my 1301 tactical experience. Neither yours nor my past experiences outside of my current experience of my 1301 tactical, of which I was comparing it with my new Mossberg 930 SPX, has nothing to do with the synopses of my reported experience of the Beretta spoken of.

I don't live to shoot, but I will shoot to live. As an ordinary citizen with the right to purchase & own a shotgun and then to comment freely from my personal experience, the 1301 tactical shotgun is not a soft shooting gun, other than shooting smoothly and kicking harshly. I may not claim to have configured several weapons as you supposedly have, but you have not shot the loads that I actually have - with the 1301 that I actually have.

So do allow me to share my experience with desired readers, whomay not be as knowledgeable as yourself. There are some common Joes who just want a layman's experiential opinion on the 1301 Tactical - as I was recently one of them. And remember, no one man's experience trumps out another man's experience. Every man's experience is always true to him and his reality.

Experience doesn't always demand prior knowledge or training. However, perhaps a greater experience can be had with greater knowledge and training, which is true with most everything in life. This is why I said in my earlier post that I could not conclude conclusively regarding this particular shotgun at this time. But I can speak regarding my brief experience with it, which is what I have done.

[GJM]

1) Shotguns kick -- period. Especially with heavy shot loads, full power buckshot and full power slugs.

2) Compared to the Benelli M2 and 870, I find the 1301 softer recoiling. The most common thing I shoot through shotguns is Brenneke, 1 1/8 ounce classic magnum slugs.

[DocGKR]

Let me see if I can use an example. I took my teenage daughter shooting using an M&P9 full size. Any experienced shooter knows an M&P9 is one of the softest shooting service pistols available, yet my daughter complained about the severe and violent recoil of the pistol she was using. She simply did not know what she did not know.

[JV_]

Personal attacks will not be permitted and I have removed the offending post. Please refer to the code of conduct if you all need a refresher.

[Unobtanium]

I ran a bunch of 970 fps bonded buckshot without issues, as well as reduced recoil slugs and 00 buckshot. They have worked on all brass case head loads, including birdsot. The one load they choke on occasionally is the cheap Winchester white box 7 1/2 shot light target loads at 1145 fps--it seems to primarily be a problem with the nickel plated steel case head.

Federal Flight Control #1 buckshot keeps all 15 .30 caliber pellets on the target out to 35+ yds. Cheap 9 pellet S&B #00 buckshot keeps all the pellets on target out to around 20 yds or so.

Each of the 1301's can put five 1 oz Brenneke slugs into a 3" circle at 50 yds. They don't mind the S&B 1 oz slugs--typically getting 5-6" 5 shot groups at 50 yds. They did NOT like Winchester low recoil Foster slugs--these made a 10" pattern, not a group.

Just to clarify, I have always had strong and positive action using 1145fps 1-1/8oz loadings (Remington STS) in my autoloaders. I bought some Winchester "Extra lite" 1180fps 1oz loads to try. This is about the same weight as 8 pellets of 00 Buck, but I couldn't find any buck under 1200fps. That "Chokeload" sounds like some seriously unique stuff. Shame it's not offered anymore.

[DocGKR]

Interestingly I recently put another 50 rds of the Winchester 7 1/2 "Lite" load through both the 1301 Tac and the 21" 1301 Comp with NO malfunctions for those 100 shots.

[Unobtanium]

Interestingly I recently put another 50 rds of the Winchester 7 1/2 "Lite" load through both the 1301 Tac and the 21" 1301 Comp with NO malfunctions for those 100 shots.

Which is "lighter"? 1145fps/1-1/8oz, or the 1180fps/1oz loads?

[Cookie Monster]

How much training and experience do you have with shotguns?

I ask, because as illustrated earlier in the thread, I have identically configured 870's and 1301's and when shot back to back with the same ammo on the same course of fire, the 1301's are substantially softer shooting.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/workandplaytubes_zps379650ec.jpg

I want to be DocGKR when I grow up.

Cookie Monster

[Spr1]

Does Beretta offer an Aluminum rail of the right length for the Tactical?

[ydennekb]

When I spoke to Beretta I was told that they do make one for the Comp, it will not fit the Tactical, and they don't make one for the Tactical in aluminum at all.

[Spr1]

Thanks.

[John Hearne]

I want to be DocGKR when I grow up.


Don't we all?

[ydennekb]

Since the last time I posted I've added a limbsaver and a Briley 2 shot extension to my gun and adjusted where I shoulder the gun after reading another thread here (moved the gun inboard). Took it out today to zero it and try out some different ammo to see if I just had a lot of sand in the jayjay last time or if the gun was really just too much for me. I was pleasantly suprised that many types of ammo were much more shootable than that last batch I shot. I ended up not really getting much accuracy data due to the 30 mph wind knocking my target stand but I did take some notes on the felt recoil. FWIW, here's my notes:

Estate 1oz 7-1/2 shot, 1290 fps - light recoil, functioned fine

Federal 00 buck 9 pellet, 1325 fps - recoil not bad

Winchester Rack Master rifled slug, 1-1/8oz, 1625 fps- heavy recoil, very accurate

Brenneke Special Forces Short Magnum 1-1/4"oz slug, 1476 fps - moderate recoil, accurate

Brenneke Magic Magnum 3", 1-3/8" slug, 1502 fps - moderate recoil

Remington 00 buck, 9 pellet, 1325 fps - somewhat light recoil

Hevi Shot #4 buck, 30 pellet, 1250 fps - light recoil

Winchester mil surp 00 buck - light recoil

[jlw]

Does the tactical model have interchangeable chokes?

[DocGKR]

No. The current 18" barrel has a fixed cylinder choke.

[jlw]

No. The current 18" barrel has a fixed cylinder choke.

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, that wasn't the answer for which I was hoping.

[shootist26]

Is the rear sight assembly plastic or metal? Also is the rail a real picatinny rail or does it have one of those cutouts down the length of the rail?

[GJM]

Is the rear sight assembly plastic or metal? Also is the rail a real picatinny rail or does it have one of those cutouts down the length of the rail?

It sounds like there may be some variation depending upon serial number. My TX4 has a metal rail, and metal LPA rear sight. I believe DockGKR reported at least one, if not all his 1301 Tacticals have a metal rear sight and rail. The accessory rail I bought (Beretta part) from Brownell's is metal. Someone reported here or elsewhere that their 1301, or one they were familiar with, Tactical had a plastic rail and rear sight.

[Spr1]

Brownells has a short rail listed as coming soon. I wonder if it is Aluminum?

[GJM]

how about this:

http://www.berettausa.com/en-us//beretta-picatinny-rail-for-1301-tx4/e5d864/?ItemNotifyId=177318

[GJM]

TX4 has chokes -- the fixed choke may be something they did as part of lowering the price on the 1301 Tactical.

[DocGKR]

That or they figured that folks wanting chokes were more likely going with a more game/competition oriented 21" or 24" barrel.

[Spr1]

how about this:

http://www.berettausa.com/en-us//beretta-picatinny-rail-for-1301-tx4/e5d864/?ItemNotifyId=177318

That one has 12 cross slots, the pic on the 1301 Tac shotgun listing has 7. That was why I keyed in on the "short" in the Brownell's listing.

[jlw]

That or they figured that folks wanting chokes were more likely going with a more game/competition oriented 21" or 24" barrel.

The Federal Flight Control stuff works fine out of a cylinder bore barrel, but most of the other stuff won't hold tight enough beyond 7-10 yards without some sort of choke.

My 870P wasn't shooting tight enough for me to pass the Shotgun Instructor course at GPSTC. One of the instructors threaded the barrel and put in a modified choke, and with the Remington 8-pellet stuff, an outstretched hand will cover the pattern at 25 yards.

I'd like to be able to match the choke to the load.

[DocGKR]

Don't disagree.

However, most of the folks here who would use a 1301 Tac only shoot slugs or Flight Control...

[jlw]

Don't disagree.

However, most of the folks here who would use a 1301 Tac only shoot slugs or Flight Control...

I prefer the Flight Control, but there are times when I have not been able to obtain it. Plus, it isn't what the training center provides for classes, which means if I want to shoot FC, it is on my own dime if I attend a class there rather than shooting the governor's ammo. During the last ammo crunch, I was only able to put my hands on some Fiochi ammo when attending the FBI Instructor class.

[GJM]

I used to be more enthusiastic about tight shooting defensive shotgun barrels, and had Hans Vang work his magic on a number of them. Then, the late, great Louis Awerbuck commented to me that the reason we have shotguns is to have spread -- otherwise we can shoot slugs or rifles. Louis used to frequently load his 14 inch 870 with slugs.

I have long since given up trying to remember what buckshot shoots what pattern at what distance. I typically just load buck inside, slugs outside and carry a few rubber bullets for shooting bears in the butt, and shot for harvesting birds.

[JodyH]

Then, the late, great Louis Awerbuck commented to me that the reason we have shotguns is to have spread --
I made a similar argument on this forum a while back.
It didn't go over well.

[NETim]

I leave all that la-dee-da choke work to those fuss budget trap shooters.

[jlw]

I used to be more enthusiastic about tight shooting defensive shotgun barrels, and had Hans Vang work his magic on a number of them. Then, the late, great Louis Awerbuck commented to me that the reason we have shotguns is to have spread -- otherwise we can shoot slugs or rifles. Louis used to frequently load his 14 inch 870 with slugs.

I have long since given up trying to remember what buckshot shoots what pattern at what distance. I typically just load buck inside, slugs outside and carry a few rubber bullets for shooting bears in the butt, and shot for harvesting birds.


Spread is fine until you have pellets not hitting in the torso at beyond a car length. I know how to do a slug exchange, but sometimes time isn't there to do it. If I can't keep all the pellets on target at 25 yards, I consider it useless for my desired uses. Your mileage may vary, and that's cool.

[GJM]

Spread is fine until you have pellets not hitting in the torso at beyond a car length. I know how to do a slug exchange, but sometimes time isn't there to do it. If I can't keep all the pellets on target at 25 yards, I consider it useless for my desired uses. Your mileage may vary, and that's cool.

I agree with your thinking, it is just my solution is different -- a tube full of slugs.

[Dagga Boy]

You would be just shocked at how fast a 7 yard problem can turn into a 47 yard problem, and a select slug drill is not an option. Experience is each of our individuals best teacher, which is why I like a tight shooting shotgun.

[GJM]

You would be just shocked at how fast a 7 yard problem can turn into a 47 yard problem, and a select slug drill is not an option. Experience is each of our individuals best teacher, which is why I like a tight shooting shotgun.

Darryl, you may remember this case, as it has been a while, but I believe it was in your general area. I remember one of Louis Awerbuck, Randy Cain or Bill Jeans, and I think it was Bill Jeans/Morrigan Consulting, with a case study in their course materials about a LE shotgun shooting. Thought it was in So Cal, and the officer fired his shotgun with buck at a bad guy, hit him but a stray pellet hit an innocent or other officer and killed them, 50 yards or so down range of the perp.

I figure if I am going to own every projectile, it is a lot easier to own one Brenneke slug than a few handfuls of buck. Awerbuck, Cain and Jeans have all told me their personal choice for their default load in their shotgun is the slug. Of course I don't make department rules, and understand some are stuck with buck as their default load.

Over the years, I have taken a bunch of shotgun classes with instructors including Clint Smith, Randy Cain, Louis Awerbuck, Bill Jeans, plus one memorable class that Awerbuck, Cain and Steve Slawson taught during a snowy November week at Gunsite. My classmates there included Hans Vang, Irv Stone, Wayne Novak and a bunch more characters. I cruised through the shoot off, and beat myself against Wayne Novak in the final bout, when I outran my headlights and nicked a hostage popper. Those were the days.

[jlw]

I took a 40 hour shotgun instructor course from a guy whose next gig was being the primary firearms instructor for the Secret Service Counter Assault Teams (the guys who immediately respond to any attack on the POTUS). As he has never taught open enrollment classes, nobody on the forums has ever heard of him.

One of his favorite sayings was "It's the fastest eight rounds you'll ever fire." referencing 00-buck.

He was a firm believer in a tight buckshot pattern.

I also recently attended a class in which one of the students was a forensic pathologist for a state crime lab. He made the observation that buck is typically retained in a body whereas slugs almost always penetrate completely.

---

I went on a warrant last week. We had to cross a large yard to approach a two story house. I was carrying an 870. The threat distance was easily reachable with a tight shooting buckshot pattern, but it would not have been with a pattern no good beyond a car length, and swapping back and forth between slugs and buck just didn't seem feasible nor practical.

If my number one concern was critters, I could see the tube full of slugs, but moving through a house with a team hunting two legged varmints, a tight buck pattern just seems like a more preferable option.

---

On the subject of 1301s, I didn't move fast enough on that quoted $879 price. Circumstances on that took an odd twist.

[GJM]

I want a 1301 Tactical without the big OEM iron sights, or a regular 1301 cut down to 18.25 inches for handiness.

Thoughts on which way to go?

[DocGKR]

Ask Beretta to make a 18" barrel with choke for the 1301 Comp...

[LOKNLOD]

I want a 1301 Tactical without the big OEM iron sights, or a regular 1301 cut down to 18.25 inches for handiness.

Thoughts on which way to go?

Will you using it with an optic, or with fibers/beads?

Assuming it costs money either way to chop the barrel or remove the sights - remove the sites from a Tactical if you still want to go with an optic, because of your comments earlier about stock height being ideal for the optic. If going with beads, might cut the barrel on a comp model instead, and gain the larger 3.5" receiver for easier ammo manipulation. The optima HP choke tubes are fairly long, might need to find a 24" to cut to ensure you're completely past the choke section when cut. That said, a standard 21" is pretty handy on its own.

[GJM]

Ask Beretta to make a 18" barrel with choke for the 1301 Comp...

I think I used all my Beretta cards when I flogged their people with G and dovetailed front sight back in May.


Will you using it with an optic, or with fibers/beads?

Assuming it costs money either way to chop the barrel or remove the sights - remove the sites from a Tactical if you still want to go with an optic, because of your comments earlier about stock height being ideal for the optic. If going with beads, might cut the barrel on a comp model instead, and gain the larger 3.5" receiver for easier ammo manipulation. The optima HP choke tubes are fairly long, might need to find a 24" to cut to ensure you're completely past the choke section when cut. That said, a standard 21" is pretty handy on its own.

Jim Brockman told me that it would be easier to cut the 1301, as opposed to removing the sights from the Tactical, and fashioning new sights. And, as you point out, the 1301 also has the better receiver. Interesting on the 24 versus 21. Brockman said redoing the choke takes special equipment.

[DocGKR]

I'd just rock a 21" and not worry about it--having run both, there is not really that much difference...

[Dagga Boy]

Ask Beretta to make a 18" barrel with choke for the 1301 Comp...

This..........!!!! I would already own one.

[GJM]

What I would like to see is the 3.5 inch 1301 with a 18.25 barrel, fiber optic front, perhaps a folding 10-22 style rear that could be deployed with slugs, and a fore end with some rail for a light and sling. And, the same thing with a 14 inch barrel.

[Jeep]

I'd just rock a 21" and not worry about it--having run both, there is not really that much difference...

Doc: I have debating about getting a 1301 for a while now. Given there isn't much difference between the tactical and the 21 inch, and assuming it isn't going to be a very high round count gun, which would you lean to for a home defense weapon? Thanks.

[GJM]

I'd just rock a 21" and not worry about it--having run both, there is not really that much difference...

21 isn't that much longer than 18, but I have used a 14 inch for years, and at some point size does matter for something I carry in my hands or slung, for hours hiking.

[Spr1]

The 1301 Tac seemed to shoot exceptionally tight patterns with Flight Control loads. How does it do with other premium, low recoil buckshot loads?

[GJM]

Worth a read:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/beretta-1301-tactical-shotgun-review-carbine-shotgun/

[Spr1]

Mesa tactical will be producing Aluminum rails

[Ber1301TAC]

I normally shoot about 25-50 rds of Spartan buckshot when I go to the range and I cant for the life of me get my barrel clean any tips ? Why is it getting so fouled ?

[DocGKR]

I don't know--I never clean my shotgun barrels...

[Chuck Whitlock]

I normally shoot about 25-50 rds of Spartan buckshot when I go to the range and I cant for the life of me get my barrel clean any tips ? Why is it getting so fouled ?

Tornado brushes work pretty well on getting plastic wad residue out of smoothbore barrels.

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/brushes-amp-bore-snakes/bore-brushes/tornado-brushes-prod9791.aspx

[Ber1301TAC]

I don't know--I never clean my shotgun barrels...

Haha I like this answer

[Unobtanium]

I don't know--I never clean my shotgun barrels...

I notice that after shooting a bunch of slugs, I get a TON of lead out of mine. I will do some pattern testing sometime and see if it matters at all.

[Unobtanium]

Tornado brushes work pretty well on getting plastic wad residue out of smoothbore barrels.

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/brushes-amp-bore-snakes/bore-brushes/tornado-brushes-prod9791.aspx

They are what I use. Works well, but over time they "compress" and you will do better replacing them time to time.

[LtDave]

WD 40 works wonders. It lifts the lead and plastic residue right out.

[Kyle Reese]

Any drawbacks to selecting the 21" Competition model?

Grabagun has em for $1085 with free shipping.

[DocGKR]

Nope--they work well and are a good compromise. You can always add a 2" extended choke if it turns out you want a longer tube...

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/1301_zpsc60b8682.jpg

[Jeep]

Nope--they work well and are a good compromise. You can always add a 2" extended choke if it turns out you want a longer tube...

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/1301_zpsc60b8682.jpg

Do use a different recoil pad or the one that comes with the gun?

[DocGKR]

The one the comes on the shotgun. I generally hate recoil pads--when using good shotgun technique (like Rob Haught's push-pull), they are generally irrelevant--especially with body armor on.

[GJM]

With full power slugs, I think stock design is the most important factor in managing recoil. Nothing like getting hit in the lip to make shooting a session of Brenneke slugs unpleasant. I think the 1301 stock is excellent in this regard.

I am not above using a Limbsaver pad, when available without too much effort, on any long gun that kicks hard.

[Jeep]

With full power slugs, I think stock design is the most important factor in managing recoil. Nothing like getting hit in the lip to make shooting a session of Brenneke slugs unpleasant. I think the 1301 stock is excellent in this regard.

I am not above using a Limbsaver pad, when available without too much effort, on any long gun that kicks hard.

When I was 25 I couldn't imagine why anyone would complain about what I thought was the quite moderate recoil of a 12 gauge. However, I'm now at the point in life where old injuries come back to haunt one, and I'm not eager to make a bad shoulder worse.--15 rounds of buckshot out of an 870 will be felt for a few days. As you note, the 1301 has a reputation for excellent stock design, but it is also a light gun. How would you compare the recoil with, say, buckshot, with an 870? (Obviously Brenneke slugs will have some real recoil).

[Jeep]

The one the comes on the shotgun. I generally hate recoil pads--when using good shotgun technique (like Rob Haught's push-pull), they are generally irrelevant--especially with body armor on.

Thanks. I don't have body armor but I am going to have to read more about that push-pull technique.

[GJM]

When I was 25 I couldn't imagine why anyone would complain about what I thought was the quite moderate recoil of a 12 gauge. However, I'm now at the point in life where old injuries come back to haunt one, and I'm not eager to make a bad shoulder worse.--15 rounds of buckshot out of an 870 will be felt for a few days. As you note, the 1301 has a reputation for excellent stock design, but it is also a light gun. How would you compare the recoil with, say, buckshot, with an 870? (Obviously Brenneke slugs will have some real recoil).

The only data that I feel confident in, is comparing Brenneke slugs out of my 870 and the 1301/TX-4. The 870 is improved by the Magpul stock, as the short Hogue I used to use would smack me in the lip. Still, the 1301 feels more comfortable than the 870.


Thanks. I don't have body armor but I am going to have to read more about that push-pull technique.

A caution, is I have heard that push/pull can shut down an inertia Benelli (M1/2). I use it with the 870 and 1301, and it definitely helps -- especially when zeroing from sitting.

[Jeep]

The only data that I feel confident in, is comparing Brenneke slugs out of my 870 and the 1301/TX-4. The 870 is improved by the Magpul stock, as the short Hogue I used to use would smack me in the lip. Still, the 1301 feels more comfortable than the 870.



A caution, is I have heard that push/pull can shut down an inertia Benelli (M1/2). I use it with the 870 and 1301, and it definitely helps -- especially when zeroing from sitting.

Thanks. I have been thinking about getting a 1301. The Benelli is interesting--but not for me.

[JAD]

A caution, is I have heard that push/pull can shut down an inertia Benelli.

Confirmed -- on demand, with a decent sample selection.

[DHart]

Great thread.

I have been considering the 1301 18.5" Tactical as an alternate defense tool to my VM 22" Tactical (which I love!) But the 1301 21" Comp may do that job even better than the 18.5" Tactical, due to the larger loading port, greater potential capacity (without mag tube extending too far in front of the muzzle) - and would be more versatile due to the choke options. Good food for thought.

[JodyH]

I have a 1301 Tactical 18.5" inbound. What's the consensus on mag tube extensions? +1, +2 or +3? Nordic or Briley?