PDA

View Full Version : Time for a new IDPA Vest: Which One?



cclaxton
11-04-2013, 09:31 AM
My XL too-large Woolrich IDPA logo vest must be retired, too big and worn out on the inside draw area.

I have three options:
1) Armadillo Concealment (Standard Cotton Canvas, typically starched cardboard-hard). Idea being that the vest doesn't bunch upon the draw. Advantages: More comfy, more options, nicer looking. Disadvantages: Keep it starched, softens when wet, wait 10-12 weeks.http://www.armadilloconcealment.com/Home_Page.html
2) Competitive Concealment (Made with Cordura blend, no need to starch, stiff enough without it). Idea being that the vest does not bunch upon draw. Advantages: More durable, material color won't fade, no need to starch, quick delivery. Disadvantages: Less comfy, fewer options, looks like a skirt in the back..not as fashionable. http://www.competitiveconcealment.com/index.htm
3) Concealed Carry Outfitters (4-ply taslon Nylon) with weights added along the front to toss-back the vest on the draw rather than rely on the stiffer material of #1, and #2, above. Advantages: More comfy, much nicer looking, inside pockets are nice, no need to starch. Disadvantages: Higher chance of vest bunching on the draw? http://www.concealedcarryoutfitters.com/index.php

Mike Elliott, a Maryland Expert/Master has the Competitive Concealment vest and he really loves it. I am leaning in that direction right now. I thought about going with a Large Woolrich and starching the hell out of it, but I need a fashion change.
Cody

Sparks2112
11-04-2013, 09:54 AM
Just out of curiosity, is this an every day wear item, or just for competition?

GJM
11-04-2013, 09:59 AM
Since none of those three choices is going to win a fashion award, I would just pick the fastest. For the last 3 or 4 years, I have been using this Filson vest as a concealment vest:

http://www.filson.com/products/travel-vest.10060.html

It conceals well, allows a fast draw, doesn't look "tactical/gunny" and is not something I am embarrassed to be seen wearing off the range.

cclaxton
11-04-2013, 10:41 AM
Just out of curiosity, is this an every day wear item, or just for competition?

Primarily for competition, but I was thinking the right answer is to get two vests, one for everyday and one for competition.
CC

cclaxton
11-04-2013, 10:48 AM
Since none of those three choices is going to win a fashion award, I would just pick the fastest. For the last 3 or 4 years, I have been using this Filson vest as a concealment vest:

http://www.filson.com/products/travel-vest.10060.html

It conceals well, allows a fast draw, doesn't look "tactical/gunny" and is not something I am embarrassed to be seen wearing off the range.

Thanks for the recommendation...very nice, but maybe out of my price range.

CC

Sparks2112
11-04-2013, 10:49 AM
Primarily for competition, but I was thinking the right answer is to get two vests, one for everyday and one for competition.
CC

I'm not much of a vest guy, mainly because I think they're a glaring tell, and I'm faster from a closed front cover garment. In the interest of actually trying to be helpful though, why not something like a north face or Duluth trading company vest? Or even just a flannel shirt left unbuttoned? Does it have to not have sleeves? Not being obtuse, I've just never gotten the whole vest thing and I'd like to try and understand?

cclaxton
11-04-2013, 11:03 AM
I'm not much of a vest guy, mainly because I think they're a glaring tell, and I'm faster from a closed front cover garment. In the interest of actually trying to be helpful though, why not something like a north face or Duluth trading company vest? Or even just a flannel shirt left unbuttoned? Does it have to not have sleeves? Not being obtuse, I've just never gotten the whole vest thing and I'd like to try and understand?

In competition, every 0.1s counts. So, your suggestions for EDC make perfect sense. But the competition vests need to move out of the way without any extra time/movement/snag.

The most popular are the highly starched Armadillo Cotton Canvas vests, although I think the Woolrich ones are second only because they are inexpensive, available, and sold by the IDPA store with the logo.

But, thanks for the other ideas.

CC

peterb
11-04-2013, 11:08 AM
I'm not much of a vest guy, mainly because I think they're a glaring tell, and I'm faster from a closed front cover garment. In the interest of actually trying to be helpful though, why not something like a north face or Duluth trading company vest? Or even just a flannel shirt left unbuttoned? Does it have to not have sleeves? Not being obtuse, I've just never gotten the whole vest thing and I'd like to try and understand?

Around here(rural NH), a Carhartt or similar vest is standard attire for anyone in the trades or doing outdoor work except in summer. Fleece or softshell vests are popular for recreational and casual wear. Fleece vests with logos are used as employee uniforms. The travel/safari/IDPA-type is NOT common and would be out of place.

ST911
11-04-2013, 11:39 AM
For IDPA/shooting use, I wear a old (pre-5.11) Royal Robbins. Daily wear vests are various forms of fleece or other softshell from Cabelas, Columbia, LL Bean. My favorite is the LL Bean.

The Filson gear is nice. You'll pay for it, but you get what you pay for. For a less expensive travelers-vest option, look at the Cabelas offering of the same name. It has good functionality at a much lower price point.

Another premium manufacturer to add to your list is King of the Mountain: http://shop.kingofthemountain.com/. They have a line of vests that incorporate some interesting fabrics and features, such as an extended "beaver tail" for concealment and warmth. Build quality is excellent. Like the Filson, you'll pay a premium, but you'll get what you pay for.

rudy99
11-04-2013, 12:14 PM
When I took a class from Scott Warren, he let me borrow his IDPA vest for a specific drill we were doing. He had it custom made and the fabric was almost like cardboard, in that if you push the edge of it open, the whole vest moved with it. Obviously this vest was designed to win competitions and was not something one would wear out and about. Not sure what kind of material it was made of though, perhaps just heavy cotton/canvas. Food for thought.

JonInWA
11-04-2013, 01:55 PM
Since my sponsor provided me with a logo'd SigTac vest, I usually use it (it's quite good in its own right), but I've also found that Barbour's moleskin shooting vest is excellent-both on and off the range.

Best, Jon

cclaxton
11-04-2013, 03:22 PM
Orvis had a fantastic, if not expensive collection of vests for just about any weather/wear.
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_search_tnail.aspx?dir_id=885&group_id=40710&cat_id=40687&subcat_id=40693

But their prices are just too much for me as much as I want the $350 Lambskin Vest.

I ordered this one from Cabela's for EDC. Just hope it is long enough for me:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Outback-Overland-Vest/727035.uts?productVariantId=2993604&WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=03264353&rid=40&channel=GoogleBaseUSA&mr:trackingCode=A04A183B-BF5D-E111-88CA-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=34214249231&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=57898357511&gclid=CMaqyaj6y7oCFQ-a4AoddwoAcw

For competition, still haven't decided. Still leaning towards the Cordura one.

BTW, if you want to learn how to super-starch your cotton/canvas vest, I used this process. The jacket will actually stand up by itself when finished:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?16964-How-to-do-It-Stiff-Starch-Grandma-s-Way
CC

cclaxton
11-05-2013, 08:23 AM
Getting close to a decision. Got a lot of good links from people. Here is one for great concealed carry vests: http://concealedcarry.com/
They also carry the velcro pocket carry option. the velcro holds the firearm in your pocket securely until needed. Check out this link: http://concealedcarry.com/categories/Internal-Pockets/ They also offer a metal-free, velcro-style gunbelt which I may get. Prices are reasonable.

I am still leaning toward the Competition Concealment vest made with Cordura, although it is not as fashionable...looks kinda girly in the back....there I said it.

Armadillo is the second choice...

Decisions, decisions.
Cody

feudist
11-05-2013, 10:28 AM
I used the Tropic vest from Concealed Carry Clothiers(your link) for over ten years.

Long lasting, hard wearing, wash and wear.

Cool enough for Alabama summers.

It doesn't scream "TacVest" like some do.

I did look like a fashion felon, but i didn't care.

Time to replace it.

rathos
11-05-2013, 12:27 PM
I ended up with one of these:

http://tacticalgear.com/mens-propper-icon-softshell-vests/black?utm_source=gs&utm_medium=sce&gclid=CNiB6fmUzroCFQNBQgodkmUAJQ

I will say I don't compete in IDPA but I bought this vest as a cover garment for everyday wear. I have even worn it in the NW summers. It also doesn't look "tactical" so its not out of place when worn on the street, but does a good job of covering my gear.

cclaxton
11-05-2013, 02:49 PM
After two days of back and forth, I decided on the Competition Concealment Vest in Tan.
Reasons: While the Armadillo have a better style and are a bit more comfy, they are still cotton-canvas and needs to be starched to keep it's stiffness. After washing multiple times, they start to wash out and look like denim.

My main purpose for the vest is to compete and it must perform functionally, so I gave up a bit of style for function. But the CompCon comes with the added benefits of no starching, easy care, resistance to wear, and color retention. The tension belts can be removed if I don't like them and it will fall straight. I will figure that part out once I get it.

Also, the lady who makes them said she would sew on some patches for free. So I am mailing them to her. I wanted to put the USPSA Patch on the vest....but decided I didn't want the grief I would get from the USPSA snobs. If only I had a KSTG patch....

Thanks for everyone's posts...learned a lot about concealment clothing and vests.

Cody

archris
12-13-2013, 12:50 PM
Thanks for the recommendation...very nice, but maybe out of my price range.

CC

I think, you have to try here too - Southernad.com (http://www.southernad.com)

rob_s
12-14-2013, 06:54 PM
After two days of back and forth, I decided on the Competition Concealment Vest in Tan.
Reasons: While the Armadillo have a better style and are a bit more comfy, they are still cotton-canvas and needs to be starched to keep it's stiffness. After washing multiple times, they start to wash out and look like denim.

My main purpose for the vest is to compete and it must perform functionally, so I gave up a bit of style for function. But the CompCon comes with the added benefits of no starching, easy care, resistance to wear, and color retention. The tension belts can be removed if I don't like them and it will fall straight. I will figure that part out once I get it.

Also, the lady who makes them said she would sew on some patches for free. So I am mailing them to her. I wanted to put the USPSA Patch on the vest....but decided I didn't want the grief I would get from the USPSA snobs. If only I had a KSTG patch....

Thanks for everyone's posts...learned a lot about concealment clothing and vests.

Cody

What do you think so far?

rob_s
03-22-2014, 05:23 AM
What do you think so far?

bump. still curious to hear impressions.

cclaxton
03-22-2014, 12:37 PM
I LOVE the Competition Concealment Vest. The fabric is naturally stiff and I just go for the gun and the vest moves out of my way. It has really increased my confidence level in going for the gun explosively. It was reasonably priced and the lady that makes them was nice enough to sew some patches on the vest. The lower pockets will stay wide open when you push the flap inside, so makes dropping mags in the pocket very fast and easy. The only downside is style...it is gathered in the back and has a bit of a "skirt" look. But shooting sports are not really about fashion are they? Never need to starch it either. Just wash on delicate with light detergent, line dry. Not a lot of variety on color, either. Again, fashion issue.

http://www.competitiveconcealment.com/

For everyday carry vests fashion is a bit more desired. I use the following:
Columbia Black Fleece Vest: http://www.columbia.com/Cathedral-Peak%E2%84%A2-II-Vest-%7C-010-%7C-XL/887253905807,default,pd.html?gclid=CJSSjNLVpr0CFUt k7AodZCwAiw&mid=paidsearch&eid=google_us&nid=Product_Ad&s_kwcid=AL!3937!3!24571932687!!!g!50626290327!&ef_id=Uw4kHAAAAWSOYyS0:20140322173003:s

2) Black Oilskin insulated Vest for colder temperatures: http://www.countryewe.com/outback-trading-overlander-vest-black-and-bronze?productId=33


Cody

jetfire
03-22-2014, 02:30 PM
I have one of those heavily starched Armadillo concealment vests. Fun fact: with it being as starched as it is, it's actually slower than my favorite fleece Woolrich Elite vest (which sadly has been discontinued).

There is a line of thought among some IDPA shooters that the stiffer the vest, the better it moves away from the gun on the draw stroke, so you end up with these starched to hell vests like the Armadillo ones. The problem is that theory doesn't actually hold up - a heavily starched/stiff vest works great if your goal is to have a huge dramatic arm sweep to clear the vest. All the really great IDPA guys don't do that though, they use a much smaller movement to get to the gun, and generally speaking wear softer vests that allow more, for lack of a better word, flow of the garment.

Instead of hurling my concealment vest off the gun, I've really focused my IDPA draw on just drawing the gun with as little wasted movement in the "vest" area as possible. It works a lot better with a pliable vest like the fleece Woolrich than it does with a starchmonster.

cclaxton
03-22-2014, 04:20 PM
I have one of those heavily starched Armadillo concealment vests. Fun fact: with it being as starched as it is, it's actually slower than my favorite fleece Woolrich Elite vest (which sadly has been discontinued).

There is a line of thought among some IDPA shooters that the stiffer the vest, the better it moves away from the gun on the draw stroke, so you end up with these starched to hell vests like the Armadillo ones. The problem is that theory doesn't actually hold up - a heavily starched/stiff vest works great if your goal is to have a huge dramatic arm sweep to clear the vest. All the really great IDPA guys don't do that though, they use a much smaller movement to get to the gun, and generally speaking wear softer vests that allow more, for lack of a better word, flow of the garment.

Instead of hurling my concealment vest off the gun, I've really focused my IDPA draw on just drawing the gun with as little wasted movement in the "vest" area as possible. It works a lot better with a pliable vest like the fleece Woolrich than it does with a starchmonster.

I agree with Caleb on focusing on the smaller, more efficient movement. That is the important thing here. But the last time I saw the supersquad shoot at the Carolina Cup, they all had ultra-starched vests, including Vogel. http://www.safariland.com/UploadedFiles/Images/VOGEL-NORTH-CAROLINA-CUP-WINNER-2013-web.jpg
Here is a good picture of Tom Yost going for his mags. You can see here how stiff his vest is. http://www.idpa.com/blog/image.axd?picture=/2013/09/Yost-med-1.jpg

This really does come down to personal preference. You have to try both and see what works for you. I know a Distinguished Master who has two types of vests, one stiff only on the strong side. He tried one that had not been starched, and found he was slower and got caught up once. The other thing to think about is the fit. I had an XL Woolrich that, even when starched, was still just too big for me and I would catch it on the draw occasionally. The Competition Concealment never gets caught for me, and rather than going up and then down I go straight for the gun, cutting out time and distance, and the garment simply moves out of the way. In the end that is what I want...go for the gun and garment moves out of the way.
Cody

jetfire
03-22-2014, 06:31 PM
I wouldn't call Bob's vest that starched since it's flopping around pretty considerably. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

rob_s
03-22-2014, 08:48 PM
So what vest is Bob wearing then?

cclaxton
03-22-2014, 10:14 PM
So what vest is Bob wearing then?
It looks like Armadillo Concealment. Not for sure.
Cody