Gel tests: Buffalo Bore .357 140 gr XPB, 10mm 175 gr Critical Duty and 200 gr Myhec

[Andrew Wiggin]

.357 mag Buffalo Bore 140 gr XPB video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XfCXGb-Q38)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XfCXGb-Q38


.357 mag Buffalo Bore 140 gr XPB fired from 4" S&W Model 13 through four layers of denim into calibrated gelatin.

BB: 580.1 fps, 3.1"

Impact velocity: 1,494 fps
Penetration: 22.9"
Retained weight: 137.6 gr
Max expansion: 0.497"
Min expansion: 0.420"



10mm Hornady 175 gr Critical Duty video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNlOU6C0Y_U)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNlOU6C0Y_U


10mm Hornady 175 gr Critical Duty fired from 4.5" EAA Witness through four layers of denim into calibrated gelatin.

BB: 580.1 fps, 3.4"


Impact velocity: 1,119 fps
Penetration: 13.1"
Retained weight: 175.0 gr (counting the 2.0 gr rubber tip)
Max expansion: 0.652"
Min expansion: 0.566"


10mm 200 gr Mihec video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2xWoHQfAQ)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2xWoHQfAQ


10mm 200 gr Mihec fired from 4.5" barrel EAA Witness into calibrated gelatin.

BB: 580.1 fps, 3.4"

Impact velocity: 1,119 fps
Penetration: 23.5"
Retained weight: 193.5 gr

No expansion

[DocGKR]

.357 Mag load overdriven--might as well be shooting full wadcutters.

10 mm CD load not too bad, but not necessarily any better than a good .40 load.

The 10 mm Mihec load was lame.

[Andrew Wiggin]

The .357 load would certainly have been cutting a reasonably large permanent cavity in the first few inches before the petals folded back on the shank. Wouldn't that make it a decent compromise for a woods defense load? Good penetration for bigger critters but still a little upset early on for humans and smaller critters. That extra velocity could also be useful for hunters who aren't shooting game six feet away.

I suspect that you could get that 175 gr projectile safely up to 1,100ish out of a .40 S&W with a careful workup. I also believe that the greatest strength of 10mm is its versatility. Lots of power if you need it for hunting or woods defense but it's another case of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should," when it comes to defensive loads for the 10mm.

I'm not sure I'd call a 23" hole from a .400" projectile "lame" but yeah, it didn't expand like we hoped. It was supposed to be 16:1 but after seeing the results, my friend who cast it tested the hardness. It came out at 14.3 BHN. 16:1 ought to be 10.3 BHN so it seems that the ingot he used that was labeled as pure lead was probably already alloyed. We will try again with a softer alloy and probably higher velocity.

ETA: I'd like to note that I really appreciated your insight and opinion over at M4C and the only reason I came over here is because I heard that you had come here. I remain appreciative of your input. Thank you for taking the time to look and thank you for your contributions to the community.

[Chuck Haggard]

I do think that .357 load would be a god "woods gun" choice.

[GJM]

Given the availability of excellent JHP loads in 9, 40 and 45, the only thing that interests me about 10mm is penetration around four leg creatures. Seems like the hard cast 10mm load did just fine in penetration?

[Andrew Wiggin]

10mm is extremely versatile. You can load weak sauce 135-155 gr lead or plated for plinking or hot 135-155 JHP for small animal hunting (eg. javelina) or pest control. You can load 165-180 jhp at "FBI lite" or what amounts to hot .40 S&W velocity for general defense. You can load those same bullets faster for flatter shooting hunting of small to medium size game (eg. Texan deer). You can load heavier solids or JHP for woods defense. 200 gr XTP at about 1,200 fps should get about 20" of penetration, which should be sufficient for any critters in Arizona. 220 or 230 gr solids loaded at around 1,100 fps get penetration measured in FEET so they might be suitable for defense against larger critters.

9mm Luger, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP are all useful cartridges that are certainly adequate for defense but they just aren't nearly as versatile as 10mm. While we don't normally think of handguns as powerful, at least not when compared to rifles or shotguns, 10mm *can* be much more powerful than the service pistol cartridges but it doesn't have to be.

[DocGKR]

I object when bullets are pushed passed their design limits and prefer when projectiles are used within their design parameters...

Concur that 10 mm is very versatile, however I have seen very few shooters who are able to consistently deliver good accuracy and speed with the hotter loads.

[Andrew Wiggin]

I would submit that however fast a person is with 10 mm or .357 or for that matter .45 ACP they would be faster with a 9mm. There is probably a handgun that could do any one task better than a 10mm but there aren't many that could do as many tasks as a 10mm reasonably well.

[DocGKR]

Yup, it does indeed do a lot of things well, including being a great SMG cartridge.

[BLR]

I object when bullets are pushed passed their design limits and prefer when projectiles are used within their design parameters...



Wait! What!?! Stuffing more powder into a case doesn't automatically make it better? Bullets have an operating velocity window?

Surely you jest, good doctor.