Looking to try something new, (help me spend my money)

[Crow Hunter]

I have been getting the "itch" to get something different to try out and I have narrowed it down to 3 options, all 9mm.

HK P2000 V3
Sig P239
Beretta 92FC

I am a long time Glock owner/shooter (circa 1998) and while I have owned lots of guns over the years, right now I am pretty much all Glock (Multiple 19s, one 26, an old 23 and a really old G30) and a couple of revolvers.

I am looking to branch out mostly just to see what will happen.:D While it is unlikely that I will get rid of my Glocks and my normal G19/G26 CCW, there is always the possibility, if there is as significant increase in performance.

I have handled a HK P2000 V3 in .40 S&W at a local Gander Mtn and I really liked the way it felt and I really wasn't put off by the DA pull. From my research it is the top of the line in quality and performance if you can "get around" the trigger. Just dry firing, I didn't seem to have a problem with it so right now it is at the top of my list. (If it had been in 9mm, I probably would have walked out with it:o)

I have wanted a Sig P239 since the late 1990's and it was next on my Sig aquisition list (I used to be a Sig guy) but marriage (and my wife's Glock preference) got in the way of that and I never actually bought one. The problems with Sig that I have read online have given me a slight pause about buying one plus it is heavy for the number of beans it carries, compared to G19/P2000.

I used to own a Beretta 92F as well as a Taurus PT92 (my 2nd centerfire handgun) and I really liked the way they shot. When I saw the compacts were available again, I got to thinking that I would like to try one out. (Probably way too big for CCW)

So, if this were your money, which would you purchase and why?

[YVK]

Compact Beretta is not too big for CCW. It is on a larger side for a compact, but quite OK. Biggest issue is support, look around and see what holster maker supports it. Can't change the front sight, and you have literally two options for a rear.

There is a several pages long thread on 239. I am still confused what it does that much better than 229, outside of taking it to a normal capacity restricted areas like CA, CT or NY.

H&K's DA trigger pull has to be "appreciated" in a live fire. I would strongly suggest finding a rental. If you can shoot it without objections, it would be my first choice amongst the three.
Otherwise, I'd go with a Sig 229.

[JV_]

And the 229 comes in a G config!

[Crow Hunter]

Compact Beretta is not too big for CCW. It is on a larger side for a compact, but quite OK. Biggest issue is support, look around and see what holster maker supports it. Can't change the front sight, and you have literally two options for a rear.

There is a several pages long thread on 239. I am still confused what it does that much better than 229, outside of taking it to a normal capacity restricted areas like CA, CT or NY.

H&K's DA trigger pull has to be "appreciated" in a live fire. I would strongly suggest finding a rental. If you can shoot it without objections, it would be my first choice amongst the three.
Otherwise, I'd go with a Sig 229.

Thanks.

I used to own a P229 in .40 (my first .40 actually). I didn't like it. It always felt like it was going to squirt up out of my hands for some reason. I also had a P228 that I didn't have that problem with strangely enough. The P228 was my CCW piece until I got into Glocks. I have not tried the E2 grips and my first was a .40 with those slick Sig P series grips from the late 90's, so maybe it is different/better now?

I really would like to find a HK DA to try out live fire. Unfortunately, in my area anyway, they are very rare to even find for sale. There is one range that I haven't tried yet so hopefully they will have one.

I used to have a HK USP40 back when I had a gun "collection". I didn't find the DA trigger on it obnoxious. It wasn't as refined as my Sigs, and I really remember the distinct "sproingy" feeling, but I didn't feel that it interfered with my shooting much. Of course, I really wasn't into actually training as much as target shooting, so I might have had trouble doing draws from concealment. Is the P2000 significantly worse than a USP full size? (Mine was circa 1997, I believe)

Thanks for your help.

[cclaxton]

If you have not tried out a Cz, you should. One of the latest models is a compact Shadow: http://czcustom.com/cz75compactshadowlinesada.aspx
Manual Safety DA/SA. Ask about the SRTS mod for it.

CC

[YVK]

I've never shot a USP. I could not stomach the V3 on a P30, and I know one more shooter who felt OK in dry fire, but quit the gun after one live session. Both of us are fine with a Sig or a Beretta.
Obviously, tolerance for a trigger quality is highly personal. There is a number of DA/SA P30/P2000 shooters here, so their opinion might be more valuable.

[GardoneVT]

Some thoughts I'll add ,such as they're worth.

HKs and .40 were a performance robbing combination for me,in the form of a P30 LEM.

I've no background on the Sig.

As to the Beretta,two thoughts come to mind.The rounded slide and exposed barrel makes it an easier piece to hide then it's size suggests.As I type this I've a full size one on my hip.

Two,the fixed front sight offers one advantage little discussed.No matter how hard you run or work the Beretta,your front sight will never lose zero or move in the dovetail.

All the best.
GardoneVT.

[RoyGBiv]

I really would like to find a HK DA to try out live fire. Unfortunately, in my area anyway, they are very rare to even find for sale.
Maybe I missed where you said where you lived?
If you're near Fort Worth, I can suggest where you might find an HK to rent or if you think the SK would be a reasonable test you're welcome to shoot my V3 in .40.

FWIW, I'd buy a 9mm P2KSK-V3 if I was buying today...

[JV_]

Two,the fixed front sight offers one advantage little discussed.It's not discussed because the down sides are far more than the one upside.

I can't recall ever wanting a non removable front sight on my pistol, but I can think of lots of times when I've wanted something thinner/taller/tritium'd/or FO'd without having to mail slide for a permanent modification.

[Crow Hunter]

Maybe I missed where you said where you lived?
If you're near Fort Worth, I can suggest where you might find an HK to rent or if you think the SK would be a reasonable test you're welcome to shoot my V3 in .40.

FWIW, I'd buy a 9mm P2KSK-V3 if I was buying today...

Thanks a bunch for the offer but unfortunately I am not close!

I am in West Tennessee far Northwest corner (Dyersburg) a few miles from the mighty Mississippi.

I have to drive down to Mogadishu on the Mississippi (Memphis) or Jackson TN to find a gun range that rents guns. Most people around here just shoot in their backyards ;) and most gun stores have Glock, S&W, Ruger (Lots of them), Taurus, SA XDs, Kimber 1911 with an occasional Sig.

The Gander Mtn in Jackson usually has some HKs and Berettas but they REALLY like them.

[GJM]

If you have not tried out a Cz, you should. One of the latest models is a compact Shadow: http://czcustom.com/cz75compactshadowlinesada.aspx
Manual Safety DA/SA. Ask about the SRTS mod for it.

CC

Would the CZ decocker version be a better carry pistol for someone that starts with the hammer down in DA mode as opposed to cocked and locked? Loud noises in the hotel room are never a good thing. :)

Possibly something like this:

http://czcustom.com/czprotek1black.aspx

[GardoneVT]

It's not discussed because the down sides are far more than the one upside.

I can't recall ever wanting a non removable front sight on my pistol, but I can think of lots of times when I've wanted something thinner/taller/tritium'd/or FO'd without having to mail slide for a permanent modification.

All due respect accorded to your experience,mine is different.

Just because you personally see it as a meaningless advantage doesn't make it less of one.In my experience,I've had aftermarket sights lose position on two different firearms.We can agree on a defensive handgun suddenly losing it's zero being a bad thing.

For your application, you want and need different sight options, and that's a viewpoint I respect.That being said, the OP might find the factory sights to his liking as is.The choice is his.

I hope you don't gain any offense at this post.

[JV_]

Do you mechanically fasten (stake/weld/permanent epoxy) your rear dovetailed sights?

IME: Those are far more likely to get bumped and move out of adjustment.

[GJM]

I consider the fixed front sight to be the single biggest negative on a legacy Beretta. That the 92A1 takes sights, like the HD, makes it attractive compared to my 92G. -- enough so I am thinking of having Josh convert a 92A1 to G config.

[JV_]

I consider the fixed front sight to be the single biggest negative on a legacy Beretta.Yea, that and the lack of widely available G models.

[Beat Trash]

Of the three choices listed by the OP, I would go for an HKP2000. The only one I have shot was a V2?, the LEM trigger. I actually liked it better than I thought. I was really attracted to the size and inherent accuracy of the gun.

The lack of holster options for the Beretta 92 compact is a serious issue that must be considered. I never really warmed up to the Sig 239. If I wanted to go that route, I'd probably look for a 228.

Part of the problem with answering questions like what has been posted by the OP is the amount of personal preference that comes into play. It is similar to a single guy asking what his next girlfriend should be? Blond, brunette, or red head? A matter of
Personal preference is going to be involved in the posted replies.

[YVK]

I consider the fixed front sight to be the single biggest negative on a legacy Beretta.

+1


Yea, that and the lack of widely available G models.

+2.

I've had a front sight on a Glock come slightly loose once. It was 100% my error, lack of appropriate inspection. I was still able to get good hits and finish a class.

I've damaged front sights, to a point of needing a replacement, twice. On a 92FS that would've meant a new slide.

[cclaxton]

Would the CZ decocker version be a better carry pistol for someone that starts with the hammer down in DA mode as opposed to cocked and locked? Loud noises in the hotel room are never a good thing. :)

Possibly something like this:

http://czcustom.com/czprotek1black.aspx

I think that depends on your training. I have been shooting cocked and locked for two years and it is automatic ON and OFF.
Nothing wrong with decockers, but the trend seems to be manual safety right now.
CC

[tremiles]

Nothing wrong with decockers, but the trend seems to be manual safety right now.
CC

I think that's largely the result of common shooters' perception that DA is too hard to master and the initial chunkiness in a non-CZ Custom CZ's DA pull.



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[JHC]

If you have not tried out a Cz, you should. One of the latest models is a compact Shadow: http://czcustom.com/cz75compactshadowlinesada.aspx
Manual Safety DA/SA. Ask about the SRTS mod for it.

CC

A CZ gets my vote for variety. I'm biased because I just did myself. I've long wanted to try one and discussing BHPs in the '90's Stephen Camp really encouraged me to give a CZ-75 a try so finally I have. A '91 pre-B. I like it a lot. For me it's not to carry. It's to enjoy one of the steel classics. Like my 1911, K-38, K-22, etc.

Based on comparisons with shooting FASTs with a 92FS and P-226 I expect I will be able to run this gun much faster on that test.

[Casual Friday]

HK P2000 ftw.....

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[GardoneVT]

HK P2000 ftw.....

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As long as it isn't in .40, I agree.

I still remember the nerves in my hands tingling after shooting 200 rounds of .40 S&W from a LEM P30 months back.

[Salamander]

The only things I can add are that I'm very happy with my P2000, and that 9mm is for sure my first choice of caliber in that gun. In addition to the well documented reliability, I like the minimalism of the external design. Not much to get in the way. I've come to prefer the HK euro-style mag release, using the trigger or middle finger I can drop the mag without any shift of hand position. If you go with a P2000 the one highly recommended mod is adding the oversize mag release from the 45c, it's about a $23 part and two minutes of effort to swap.

I don't have enough experience with the other two specific guns you list to have a strong opinion on them. For Sigs in general, I liked my old P229 well enough except that it was quite a bit heavier and I didn't care for the position of the decocker.

[JeffJ]

I think that's largely the result of common shooters' perception that DA is too hard to master and the initial chunkiness in a non-CZ Custom CZ's DA pull.



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Also, for all the game guns, apparently much easier/better trigger work can be done on the non-decock models.

[cclaxton]

Also, for all the game guns, apparently much easier/better trigger work can be done on the non-decock models.

I have the Short Reset Trigger System installed on both my CZ 75 Shadow and Shadowline.....2.5-3lbs, icicle break, short reset and short SA starting point. (the DA starting point is probably .5" further forward.) http://czcustom.com/cz75disconnectorshrt.aspx This can now be done to B-Models as well. You can also buy the Non-B SRTS Part and have an armorer do the work. Also, I recommend getting a spring kit from Cajungunworks http://www.cajungunworks.com/spring_kits.html so you can adjust to your ammo.

If your hands are really small, the Cz is not a gun for you. Average to large hands are good. Mine are average and as long as I have thin grips, I am good. That doesn't eliminate women, I know at least two who shoot CZ's.

CC

[JeffJ]

I've been pretty interested in zed for a while now. I know a several USPSA guys with shadows, and they're pretty awesome. I think an SP01 with decock is in my future, I really don't want a dedicated game gun that I wouldn't carry and I'd rather carry that hammer down (says the guy with a C&L 1911 on his hip right now...)

[Josh Runkle]

I have 2 p2000's in 9mm: a v2 and a v3. I recommend the LEM as a system that works well, but unfortunately, I am also a glock guy and my glock training scars are causing massive issues with trigger reset on the LEM (I won't reset far enough before I attempt to fire again if I'm going really fast). The v3 (da/sa) works well, but I personally don't prefer da/sa. Nothing wrong with it, just that my personal preference is for a singular trigger pull.

All in all, the HK is a phenomenal gun. You might find a few minor issues in order to customize it to your shooting, but it's a dream.