2012-13 PTC Test Guns - Springfield 9mm 1911

[ToddG]

Todd: have you painted the front site like other sets or left it as it is?
If not, why?

Initially yes. I had a hard time getting as crisp a sight picture as I did with the high-viz Ameriglos, though. I think I'm going to have to get a little more precise in my application of the paint. For now, they're "bare."

In other news: Gun had its first stoppage today. Right around the 2,900 mark (I didn't stop to count exactly) there was a failure to extract.



Ammo was Atlanta Arms 115gr TCJ, which is a commercially produced reload. Nonetheless, without some evidence that the ammo was definitely to blame I have to count it against the gun. I shot 350 rounds of the AA TCJ and only had the one problem. However, to be on the safe side I won't shoot any more of that ammo through the test gun.

[Kevin B.]

Todd,

Have you cleaned it yet?

[ToddG]

Field stripped, cleaned, and lubricated last night (before the stoppage).

[jmjames]

Field stripped, cleaned, and lubricated last night (before the stoppage).

Maybe you have the anti-1911 and it likes to be run dry & dirty?

J.Ja

[Pistol Fan]

Initially yes. I had a hard time getting as crisp a sight picture as I did with the high-viz Ameriglos, though. I think I'm going to have to get a little more precise in my application of the paint. For now, they're "bare."

In other news: Gun had its first stoppage today. Right around the 2,900 mark (I didn't stop to count exactly) there was a failure to extract.



Ammo was Atlanta Arms 115gr TCJ, which is a commercially produced reload. Nonetheless, without some evidence that the ammo was definitely to blame I have to count it against the gun. I shot 350 rounds of the AA TCJ and only had the one problem. However, to be on the safe side I won't shoot any more of that ammo through the test gun.

Bummer. I was really hoping against personal experience that you would get several thousands of rounds through it before a stoppage. Your photo skills have gotten pretty good and some of the test gun photos could be wallpaper or advertising material. The photo of the stoppage is kind of shaky, but the brass looks like it was stomped on cement. Did you save the unejected brass? Not that I'm too eager to blame the ammo, but is there a better photo of the rim of the case where the extractor contacts it?

Separately I'll be interested in your general feeling of reliability with the guns. It might not be your first choice as an EDC, but after nearly 3000 rounds before a stoppage do you feel comfortable relying on it?

[Pistol Fan]

Correct. Reloads are worse but splits are faster. So I look like a retarded monkey trying to operate the pistol, but I sound really cool doing Bill Drills. Yay me...

Haha... That's every range day for me, but I prefer "intellectually challenged primate" when folks critic my skills.

[ToddG]

Maybe you have the anti-1911 and it likes to be run dry & dirty?

Funny you mention that. I've talked to a number of people whose opinions I respect regarding 1911s in particular and shooting in general today. There was strong consensus that a "just cleaned" gun is less trustworthy than one that's had a couple hundred rounds through it. I know going back through my records over the past several years there is a strong correlation between "I cleaned it last night" and "I had a stoppage today."

Bummer. I was really hoping against personal experience that you would get several thousands of rounds through it before a stoppage.

2,900 seems fairly close.

The photo of the stoppage is kind of shaky, but the brass looks like it was stomped on cement. Did you save the unejected brass? Not that I'm too eager to blame the ammo, but is there a better photo of the rim of the case where the extractor contacts it?

Yeah, the range technically doesn't allow any photography so I have to be at least marginally subtle so as not to appear like the rules don't apply to me. Combine that with my mediocre cell phone camera and you get ... blah. Here's a 100% crop, no editing:


I did not recover the piece of brass.

Separately I'll be interested in your general feeling of reliability with the guns. It might not be your first choice as an EDC, but after nearly 3000 rounds before a stoppage do you feel comfortable relying on it?

I loaded the gun up with 124gr +p HST and wore it out the door. One stoppage in what has now been over 3,000 rounds isn't going to shake my confidence.

[jmjames]

Funny you mention that. I've talked to a number of people whose opinions I respect regarding 1911s in particular and shooting in general today. There was strong consensus that a "just cleaned" gun is less trustworthy than one that's had a couple hundred rounds through it. I know going back through my records over the past several years there is a strong correlation between "I cleaned it last night" and "I had a stoppage today."

I am actually not *too* surprised by that. I've seen the same thing with cars. I once killed a Chevy 229 by... changing the spark plugs. Couldn't get all 6 cylinders firing right after that.

In terms of the stoppage, it looks like the extractor slipped right off the rim (that's the beat-up appearance on the rim). I am 99% sure that you would have noticed brass that ugly going into the magazine in the first place. So the question is, "why did it slip off?" Too bad you didn't save the brass, it would have been good to see if it overexpanded and got stuck in the chamber. Was it hard to remove by hand? If so, that's your culprit in theory.

The other theory I have, looking at the position of the round in the mag, is that maybe the feed lips were loose and let the next round get far enough in the extraction path that the base of the fired round got stuck on the bullet of the next round, and the slide velocity + a loose/worn/undertight/improperly shaped extractor slipped off. Or it's possible that the slide was trying to return to battery and started chambering the next round, and that's why it looks like the rim is rammed against the bullet of the fresh round.

J.Ja

[ToddG]

The partially extracted case fell out of the gun when the magazine was removed. It definitely was not stuck.

I noted the magazine (Metalform #7) and will keep track in the event another mishap occurs. The gun will see 800-1,000 rounds of Blazer 3460 (124gr TMJ Cleanfire) this weekend during the Tom Givens class and if a problem does crop up, I'm confident Tom will have an answer.

[Jason F]

....In other news: Gun had its first stoppage today. Right around the 2,900 mark (I didn't stop to count exactly) there was a failure to extract.

Ammo was Atlanta Arms 115gr TCJ, which is a commercially produced reload. Nonetheless, without some evidence that the ammo was definitely to blame I have to count it against the gun. I shot 350 rounds of the AA TCJ and only had the one problem. However, to be on the safe side I won't shoot any more of that ammo through the test gun.

Todd-

Curious as to why you'd abandon an entire product line of ammo after one stoppage that you're not certain you can pin on the ammo. Care to explain?

If anything, I'd think that running more of that ammo to see if the problem reoccured would prove insightful... but you may have a completely different thought process on this, hence the question.

Oh, and enjoy your time at the class with Tom this weekend. Stoppages or not, you'll definitely walk away with some great info.