The Semi-Unofficial Pistol-Forum Car geek, gearhead, hot rodder, and vehicle thread

[RevolverRob]

Tomorrow I button up the work on the Mazda and go pick up a new toolbox. I need to sort out the inherited tools, plus my tools and get it all into one box for easier movement. My dad had three 26" x 48" combo-boxes full of tools. I'm picking up a 41" x 64" - 39,000ci capacity box. Since I'm not taking all of my dad's tools, that should be sufficient to blend his tools with my tools. My calculation is he had about 24,000 ci box capacity and I have a 5,000 ci box in Chicago which is not full. Once it's all together I should still have ~10,000 ci of expansion space and I'm not honestly in need for many tools, excepting a few (dozen) specialty tools.

[JRB]

I had a couple of 300-450whp mk3s, then a SC400, and then a ratty 600whp NA-T mk4. But I soon grew tired of fixing the cheap chinese turbo kit shortcomings and constantly fiddling with the finicky standalone EMS and meth injection. Plus I was getting bored of the whole Supra "3 honks from a roll" 1 dimensional performance aspect. So I transitioned into a much more fun 91 octane-only 375whp 7mgte mk2. Unfortunately I bought it out of town at night after work without thoroughly inspecting it and later discovered the previous owner had basically bondo'd over rust and repainted it. When a track day on DOT slicks shoved the rear crossmember through rusted sheetmetal I decided the chassis wasn't worth saving and parted it out, moving on to adulting in a prius (which lead to a brief flirtation with hypermiling).

I still look back fondly on the 1990s SOGI & MR2oc lists - the intelligence & signal/noise ratio seemed so much better than the later forums. Part of that was probably the influx of idiots after the fast & furious came out. Seeing "no one likes the tuna here" or "darude sandstorm" over and over got old fast.

Sounds like you were one of the AEM EMS V1 beta testers- I mean, first customers! With smaller single turbo setups or well rounded supporting mods on stock twins, MK4's are amazing handling cars, but as you said, few are built to that purpose. With more modern turbo setups and better EMS's that now support the later VVTI heads and other good stuff, that gap is narrowing and now the problem is that everyone's bending/breaking stock rods with high TQ quick spooling small singles on E85. So what was once a '1000whp' stock bottom end is now more realistically like a 750whp one.

I've always wanted a MKII but that was a car that always slipped by me whenever I got close. Cars would be sold before I got there to look at it, or I just needed a little more time than I had to get the cash together. I really, really want a MKII, but finding a clean one is just too expensive anymore. It sucks. Bummer to read about yours! That's a hell of a way for a car to die
I've always wanted to do a centrifugal SC like a Vortech V1 or Novi 1000 on a 2JZ-GE or 7M-GE with a set of ITB's and a nice header, and I always felt like that would be a perfect mid-low 400whp setup with phenomenal response and sound, and it wouldn't break a weak-but-fantastic-shifting W58 5spd trans either. That'd be perfect in a MKII, but alas, somehow I always have too many car projects and that idea never made it past an idea. Lol.

The old email lists were great. Supraforums was definitely the wild west, though. A very ruthless, tech savvy, meme-generating-before-memes wild west. It too was an excellent resource with some fantastic expertise but one better have used the search button, or have articulated a damn good question before starting a thread!
Nowadays I find myself fondly recalling the 00's and the Supra scene at the time, and SF was fantastic back then. Now it's a ghost town that got levelled but kept all the old street names. Verticalscope absolutely ruined it, which is sad.
If you really want your head to hurt, the social media groups for Supras make the worst of the forums seem absolutely pleasant in comparison.

I've found the same cycle happens with any performance or enthusiast car - when it's new/relatively expensive, you have more owners that have their shit together and are professionals in their field and thus can articulate themselves well and tech understanding is usually pretty good. As the cars get cheaper and lower ends of the market get their hands on it, kids, etc, the IQ of the collective goes down and dumb shit starts happening, and folks with the means buy new cars or stop participating in the scene. I'd put the Supra community against any other car collective on the planet as far as raw tech, engine tech, and tuning knowledge is concerned, but the signal to noise ratio drops with each passing year.

As for F&F, That's a profoundly misunderstood phenomenon. The reason the Supra was so prominently featured is because it was the car to beat. 650-700whp on race gas with full creature comforts was absolutely godlike in the late 90's. So the car got the role because it was amazing. That's why the prices stayed high on Supras. The prices started spiking early/mid 2000 thanks to videos of the Walser Supra walking a Hayabusa on the freeway burning up everyone's 56k modem connections for that ~42mb video, and Bryce Danna's T51R SPL equipped Supra making 853whp at the very first Tx2k meet in 2000, and I know this because that's how I ended up a teenager with a paid off $3500 MK3 Supra instead of a bank note on a $15,000 '93 TT 6-spd. That $15k 6-spd car was a $25k car by the fall of 2000 because car nuts started hunting them down to build 600+hp monsters out of them.
In the end, if F&F's use of the cars dictated prices, then 2G/3G Mitsubishi Eclipses, DC2 Integras, etc would all be valuable cars too, and they aren't. Also, the F&F 'scene' was alive and thriving well before the movie, which is why they made a movie out of the culture/scene/stuff surrounding import street racing etc back then. It was a wild time and it's ironic to me how much the builds, cars, and HP numbers have so vastly improved but cars as a whole aren't 1/10th as popular with teens/20-somethings as they were back then. I recall that time period fondly but mostly because I had so little to worry about in life - it was cars, talk to car people, work enough to keep that car insured and the tank full and keep modifying it as I could, and talk to girls that would hang out around all the retail parking lots full of cars on Friday and Saturday nights.

I though I knew cars, but some of these posts with more acronyms than words has my head spinning. Reminds me of my early days in the IT Information Technology world.

Funny thing - my professional career started in IT with an A+ cert at 18 fresh out of high school. Cars didn't pay for themselves that's for sure! If you need an index or anything don't be afraid to drop a PM.

Ford cam phasers are satan's tongue.
And their water pump placement is his butthole.

I've utterly hated very few specific engines on this earth, but the Ford 5.4L is one of that anointed few. Eats and breaks spark plugs even with the best practices and precautions taken, eats cam phasers, cam phasers fail and pistons wack valves, and yes, the water pump placement is pure evil.

There's exactly one 5.4L Ford I'd ever own, and that's an SVT Lightning. There's a LOT of other trucks I'd buy before a Lightning, too. The 5.4L GT500's would also get a potential pass depending on the price and how silly I was feeling, but the 13-14 5.8L Trinity GT500's are light years ahead of the earlier ones and boy howdy they are amazing cars.

Thankfully, Ford's 5.0L Coyote and 6.2L that replaced the 5.4L are both overwhelmingly better in literally every possible way.

[olstyn]

Ford cam phasers are satan's tongue.
And their water pump placement is his butthole.

Ever tried to replace the crank position sensor on an early 2000s Audi 1.8T from the top of the engine bay because you don't have ramps or a lift? It can be done, but it was almost completely by feel because contorting my arm into that space put my whole body at a weird angle and completely blocked my view of what I was doing. It took a bunch of tries before it was in, and I was terrified of dropping the part the whole time. If there's a next time (or just something similar) on my current car, I'm just buying some ramps and doing it from underneath. Just because I'm cheap and stubborn doesn't mean I can't learn that doing it the hard way is a bad idea.

[RevolverRob]

How about a K-Swapped DB9 Integra? AWD for the win!

I don't think I mentioned it before, I started too and got busy. FYI - the 4G63T is one of my absolute favorite engines of all time, such a great engine and I would absolutely own an Evo 8 or 9 with a 6MT. That said, it would basically be all stock or tuned to about 350whp, I wouldn't bother trying to get above that, unless I wanted to throw money at it.

I know for sure I've done some funky things upside down with the arm contorted, by feel, at night, in the cold, and I've for sure dropped the bolt a time or two. But thankfully I can't remember the last time I did it. I will say this why Ford/Mazda put the fucking front strut mount bolts under the cowl vent drip rail I will never understand. You can't get a proper fucking torque wrench in there. Fortunately, it's only about 32 ft/lbs. So I got it hand tight and gave it a little bump and called it good. The other two bolts of the three are torqued properly, should be fine. But it is irritating.

Got the new toolbox in, started filling it with tools. I have like a dozen 1/2" wrenches, but only two 10mm wrenches, can you tell the bulk of my wrench turning career was on American stuff?

[0ddl0t]

Sounds like you were one of the AEM EMS V1 beta testers- I mean, first customers! With smaller single turbo setups or well rounded supporting mods on stock twins, MK4's are amazing handling cars, but as you said, few are built to that purpose. With more modern turbo setups and better EMS's that now support the later VVTI heads and other good stuff, that gap is narrowing and now the problem is that everyone's bending/breaking stock rods with high TQ quick spooling small singles on E85. So what was once a '1000whp' stock bottom end is now more realistically like a 750whp one.

Oh yes, the "plug n play" AEM with its over promised features and which overall didn't quite work unless you wired in random GM sensors but that somehow all the forum guys raved drove around town "just like stock." Been there, done that and wound up jealous of factory Mitsubishi tuning...

MKIVs can be decent track cars, but they're expensive to get right. My cheap chinese unbraced SS turbo manifold worked fine on the dyno or strip, but would flex and crack under sustained high temps, high lateral g's, and the shock of jumping FIA curbing. And even when braced, the intercooler pipes would frequently pop off.

Even when sorted, on most tracks the same driver in a 600whp mkiv would be considerably faster in a 500whp z06 - cheap plastic interior and all. For all its success at the strip & airport tarmac, the mkiv never was competitive in organized road racing or even things like the One Lap. A setup that handled didn't launch, and a setup that launched didn't handle...

I've always wanted a MKII but that was a car that always slipped by me whenever I got close. Cars would be sold before I got there to look at it, or I just needed a little more time than I had to get the cash together. I really, really want a MKII, but finding a clean one is just too expensive anymore. It sucks. Bummer to read about yours! That's a hell of a way for a car to die
I've always wanted to do a centrifugal SC like a Vortech V1 or Novi 1000 on a 2JZ-GE or 7M-GE with a set of ITB's and a nice header, and I always felt like that would be a perfect mid-low 400whp setup with phenomenal response and sound, and it wouldn't break a weak-but-fantastic-shifting W58 5spd trans either. That'd be perfect in a MKII, but alas, somehow I always have too many car projects and that idea never made it past an idea. Lol.

I'd love to have a light 350-400whp v8 in one. Beyond that the suspension, tires, and brakes are all pretty limited in established aftermarket modifications and tend to be the limiting factor.

Sadly I have noticed that since Craigslist started charging for car ads, I don't see hardly any mk2 supras and mk1 mr2s listed for sale anymore - or most anything from the 80s & early 90s...

The old email lists were great. Supraforums was definitely the wild west, though. A very ruthless, tech savvy, meme-generating-before-memes wild west. It too was an excellent resource with some fantastic expertise but one better have used the search button, or have articulated a damn good question before starting a thread!
Nowadays I find myself fondly recalling the 00's and the Supra scene at the time, and SF was fantastic back then. Now it's a ghost town that got levelled but kept all the old street names. Verticalscope absolutely ruined it, which is sad.
If you really want your head to hurt, the social media groups for Supras make the worst of the forums seem absolutely pleasant in comparison.

Yeah, I guess in fairness the technical sections of SF were pretty good and the indexing was better for searching than just doing a keyword search of the email archives. But there were so many non supra owning fan boys and general trolls - including one obnoxious Jack Bauer-obsessed supermod who seemed to take particular delight in trolling mk3 owners.

I do agree that the social media groups are the worst. Any valuable information is quickly overshadowed by new garbage and becomes impossible to find later.

I've found the same cycle happens with any performance or enthusiast car - when it's new/relatively expensive, you have more owners that have their shit together and are professionals in their field and thus can articulate themselves well and tech understanding is usually pretty good. As the cars get cheaper and lower ends of the market get their hands on it, kids, etc, the IQ of the collective goes down and dumb shit starts happening, and folks with the means buy new cars or stop participating in the scene. I'd put the Supra community against any other car collective on the planet as far as raw tech, engine tech, and tuning knowledge is concerned, but the signal to noise ratio drops with each passing year.

That's true. I noticed a lot of old supra guys moved into the e46 m3 and then abandoned it a few years after it was out of production.

As for F&F, That's a profoundly misunderstood phenomenon. The reason the Supra was so prominently featured is because it was the car to beat. 650-700whp on race gas with full creature comforts was absolutely godlike in the late 90's. So the car got the role because it was amazing. That's why the prices stayed high on Supras. The prices started spiking early/mid 2000 thanks to videos of the Walser Supra walking a Hayabusa on the freeway burning up everyone's 56k modem connections for that ~42mb video, and Bryce Danna's T51R SPL equipped Supra making 853whp at the very first Tx2k meet in 2000, and I know this because that's how I ended up a teenager with a paid off $3500 MK3 Supra instead of a bank note on a $15,000 '93 TT 6-spd. That $15k 6-spd car was a $25k car by the fall of 2000 because car nuts started hunting them down to build 600+hp monsters out of them.
In the end, if F&F's use of the cars dictated prices, then 2G/3G Mitsubishi Eclipses, DC2 Integras, etc would all be valuable cars too, and they aren't.

Don't forget Getaway in Stockholm and Redline...

But the Supra maintained its appeal long term because there was no replacement for it (we'll see what the mkv does, but I doubt it will compare). The E46 had a lot in common, but never got to the 1500-2000whp monster level necessary to compete with turbo lambos & ford GTs in the standing mile. DSMs might have held their value better if not for the Evo. The civics & integras were the king of fwd, but as their owners matured they generally either gave up on fwd or on hotrodding. The 300zxtt was never quite able to match the Supra and its 350/370 replacement was probably a better track or tuner car for the masses. The FD3S wasn't quite replaced by the rx8, but due to the lack of a NA counterpart it didn't have the production numbers to really be a widespread donor chassis. The AE86 all but vanished after the 86/brz/frs. I guess the 240sx is still hanging on, but it too lacks a replacement.

[Outlier]

Such is the sad state of affairs. I’ve been out of the game for over 10 years now and it feels like the only things worth pursuing are new/close to new.

[Outlier]

Ever tried to replace the crank position sensor on an early 2000s Audi 1.8T from the top of the engine bay because you don't have ramps or a lift? It can be done, but it was almost completely by feel because contorting my arm into that space put my whole body at a weird angle and completely blocked my view of what I was doing. It took a bunch of tries before it was in, and I was terrified of dropping the part the whole time. If there's a next time (or just something similar) on my current car, I'm just buying some ramps and doing it from underneath. Just because I'm cheap and stubborn doesn't mean I can't learn that doing it the hard way is a bad idea.

I know it seems weird if you come from a Japanese or American car background but once you get used to the idea of pulling the front clip on European cars to do regular maintenance it’s not bad. Usually takes less than 10 minutes and makes everything so much easier.

[RevolverRob]

I think trying to guess what the next series of low-to-mid cost tuner cars will be is a bit difficult. Partly, because it is very difficult to see where big power can come from in terms of what is being produced today, besides the obvious of big V8s.

I mean, VQ37? No way, 550 before you grenade the lower-end.

Civic Type R? Direct Injection is just so good at killing the initial power-gains for a platform. I bought my Mazdaspeed3 in 2011, the first direct-injection DISI 2.3s came in 2006 in the Mazdaspeed6 and by 2011 folks had finally gotten the tuning right and recognized and adapted to the fuel needs. Even still, there was only about 50 extra ponies to be had on the stock fueling system. An upgrade could get you somewhere in the 450 range on 93, but I still remember when the first DISI broke 500hp on E85. I've been out of that scene for about 6 years now, but still, finding greater than 550hp requires a bottom end and gearbox. I don't get the impression the Type R is bound to do much better. I'm sure there will be a few monsters out there, but in a world where 10 psi on a Coyote will net you 700hp at the wheels...and Dodge sells a 717hp car off the showroom floor, the fire-breathing monsters of the next 10-15 years will likely be V8s.

If I wanted to produce big power tomorrow - I'd go buy the cleanest 2011-2014 Mustang GT I could find and probably just throw a blower on it, tune it for about 8'ish PSI on 93 octane, big-brake kit, setup the suspension for a street/track tune. Then beat on it, until I broke something. Chances are good I'll need more tires and brake pads before I break something big on it.

[JRB]

Oh yes, the "plug n play" AEM with its over promised features and which overall didn't quite work unless you wired in random GM sensors but that somehow all the forum guys raved drove around town "just like stock." Been there, done that and wound up jealous of factory Mitsubishi tuning...

MKIVs can be decent track cars, but they're expensive to get right. My cheap chinese unbraced SS turbo manifold worked fine on the dyno or strip, but would flex and crack under sustained high temps, high lateral g's, and the shock of jumping FIA curbing. And even when braced, the intercooler pipes would frequently pop off.

Even when sorted, on most tracks the same driver in a 600whp mkiv would be considerably faster in a 500whp z06 - cheap plastic interior and all. For all its success at the strip & airport tarmac, the mkiv never was competitive in organized road racing or even things like the One Lap. A setup that handled didn't launch, and a setup that launched didn't handle...

AEM V1 cars... ugh. I feel your pain, man. Cranky starts and only one cam sensor, the same startup algorithm that can't be changed regardless of the engine it's on, only 4 ignition outputs so a direct fire ignition system is suddenly wastespark and the coils suddenly don't keep up (not a problem for you NA-T guys with a distributor though) the list goes on and on. My favorite AEM V1 shenanigan was the software update that would lock the injectors open with the engine immobile so it'd hydrolock the cylinders with fuel and frag the motor on the next attempted startup if you didn't catch it. I *LOVED* that one!
The AEM V2 is vastly better but I'll never forget how AEM treated the Supra community like their own personal beta testers. Worse that the AEM V1 was just a crappy adaptation of the GEMS system from the UK and the GEMS system was actually better in some ways. Oh well.
These days, the Syvecs stuff is what I'd choose and the software, support, features, etc are light years ahead of the AEM stuff.

I'd disagree that it was expensive to get right, it simply took attention in areas that other cars didn't require. Yes, the early SS AutoChrome trash was basically a mocked up manifold kit that one had to re-weld, brace, and plane the flanges on to make it work. You NA-T guys had it the worst because your choices were basically a Dave H manifold or the SS crap. For Road Racing, the old school Turbonetics cast T4 manifold was fantastic on the GTE and now the FSR Motorsport/SPA turbo cast manifold is utterly wonderful for road racing, none of that drama. IC piping is easily secured by spot welding nuts to either side of the IC pipes just past the coupler and running a simple connecting bar between them to bolt-on. Another trick I learned was to coat the ends of the IC pipe past the bead in Aqua-net hairspray

Andi B and Leh Keen both campaigned successful MK4 runs in One Lap, the issue wasn't ever expense it was really just the will to do it and the inherent risk to the car. MK4's got too valuable and Andi B running a Quicksilver FX '98 TT 6-spd like that would be looked upon with horror these days.

It doesn't help that most wheel setups for the Supra don't put nearly enough front tire on the car, and most coilovers are either under-damped or under-sprung. People also lower the car too much and screw up the camber curve, and simply can't be bothered to spend the $ on proper adjustable upper camber arms that allow them to set caster with the factory camber bolts and set camber on the control arm.

A set of 17x10's all around with sticky 275's combined with adjustable upper control arms, a beefy front swaybar, a nonturbo or deleted rear sway bar, and a decent set of coilovers (KW, etc) totally change the MK4's potential as a road race car. The only real significant difference between a 'launching' alignment and a road racing alignment is in the rear camber settings, which can be marked off on properly adjustable upper camber arms and changed in 10-15 minutes. But again, few bothered to understand it so few do it.

I'd love to have a light 350-400whp v8 in one. Beyond that the suspension, tires, and brakes are all pretty limited in established aftermarket modifications and tend to be the limiting factor.

Sadly I have noticed that since Craigslist started charging for car ads, I don't see hardly any mk2 supras and mk1 mr2s listed for sale anymore - or most anything from the 80s & early 90s...

I knew a guy with 1UZ-FE powered MK2 and he fabricated an intake manifold adapter to mount an Eaton M112 blower on it. I fell out of touch with him some years back, I wonder if he ever got it running.

Yeah, the trailing arm IRS used by the MK2's is a real limiting factor in the big picture, but so long as one retains a sane ride height, the Techno Toy Tuning stuff works great for suspension and brakes. It won't make a MK2 into a modern car, but it'll make it a late 90's car instead of an early 80's car and that's quite a quantum leap in handling and braking.

Agreed on the Craigslist deal - sad stuff all around. It is very hard to find a decent MR2 or anything cool these days, really.

Yeah, I guess in fairness the technical sections of SF were pretty good and the indexing was better for searching than just doing a keyword search of the email archives. But there were so many non supra owning fan boys and general trolls - including one obnoxious Jack Bauer-obsessed supermod who seemed to take particular delight in trolling mk3 owners.
...
I do agree that the social media groups are the worst. Any valuable information is quickly overshadowed by new garbage and becomes impossible to find later.
...
Don't forget Getaway in Stockholm and Redline...

FYRarms, yeah, since I was a MK3 guy until 2006, I remember that asshole. The fanboys and trolls were terribly toxic to the whole concept and that's why there were countless spin off forums. Supramania, Supraforumz, etc. Supramania was the only one that held on because it was Mk3 centric, but it fell victim to the nut-riding and fanboyism same as SF it just manifested differently in that some members could not be criticized for bad tech info.

Facebook is the devil, but the FB marketplace has been okay and a welcome augmentation to the now-barren Craigslist options for finding a cool car for sale.

As for those old videos, man, the turbodreams series were my favorite! I remember melting down my 56k connection in the middle of the night to download them.

But the Supra maintained its appeal long term because there was no replacement for it (we'll see what the mkv does, but I doubt it will compare). The E46 had a lot in common, but never got to the 1500-2000whp monster level necessary to compete with turbo lambos & ford GTs in the standing mile. DSMs might have held their value better if not for the Evo. The civics & integras were the king of fwd, but as their owners matured they generally either gave up on fwd or on hotrodding. The 300zxtt was never quite able to match the Supra and its 350/370 replacement was probably a better track or tuner car for the masses. The FD3S wasn't quite replaced by the rx8, but due to the lack of a NA counterpart it didn't have the production numbers to really be a widespread donor chassis. The AE86 all but vanished after the 86/brz/frs. I guess the 240sx is still hanging on, but it too lacks a replacement.

The E46's cost of repair is what stopped it, not much else. With an ocean of 2JZ blocks and cranks available for cheap it was a lot easier to get frisky with them without worry, vs a 25K+ built S54.

DSM's, honestly man I disagree. The Evo is absolutely 1000% better than any of the DSM's, but the DSM's unreliability and relatively low numbers in turbo AWD production wouldn't have kept it alive regardless. As it is, they've basically become unicorns that are collected by DSM hoarders. If not for the Evo, though, I suspect we'd have seen a lot more from the 3000GT VR4's. They are bothersome to work on, not unlike a 300ZXTT, but they're a fantastic platform if one is willing to overcome the decades of perpetuated derp found in its respective community.

The DC2 Type R is hands down the finest FWD car I've ever driven. The values on clean examples are on the upswing and I would own a clean DC2 GSR or Type R in an instant, except for the price. Plus they're still very visible targets for theft. It sucks.

The FD3S is a phenomenal car and the RX-8 was nowhere near as awesome. The RX-8's make for a great LS or K motor swap platform though, with lots of suspension, brakes, etc support, and RX-8's with blown Renesis engines are dirt cheap rollers.

I've had two AE86's. I wish I hadn't sold them. I never knew 110hp could be so much fun.
240SX's are an ocean of drift missile cars with the occasional and rare clean example. I had a '89 S13 fastback and I loved it - another car I wish I hadn't sold. A K-motor would be fantastic in an S13, too.

The 300ZXTT never quite matched the Supra because they'll make 350-400whp by sneezing on them, and every step upward from there is an incremental struggle with cost and space because it needs two of everything - 2 turbos, 2 intercoolers, etc. They're kind of a pain to work on too unless you take the European approach @descent described. They're very fun at 400whp though!

Such is the sad state of affairs. I’ve been out of the game for over 10 years now and it feels like the only things worth pursuing are new/close to new.

Dude, honestly I see it exactly the opposite - most new cars are utterly boring to me and I can't imagine why I'd spend $40k+ on a 'meh' car when there's a used car market full of GT500's, Z06's, E46 M3's, RS4's, AMG's, etc in the mid 20k range or less.

I think trying to guess what the next series of low-to-mid cost tuner cars will be is a bit difficult. Partly, because it is very difficult to see where big power can come from in terms of what is being produced today, besides the obvious of big V8s.

I mean, VQ37? No way, 550 before you grenade the lower-end.

Civic Type R? Direct Injection is just so good at killing the initial power-gains for a platform. I bought my Mazdaspeed3 in 2011, the first direct-injection DISI 2.3s came in 2006 in the Mazdaspeed6 and by 2011 folks had finally gotten the tuning right and recognized and adapted to the fuel needs. Even still, there was only about 50 extra ponies to be had on the stock fueling system. An upgrade could get you somewhere in the 450 range on 93, but I still remember when the first DISI broke 500hp on E85. I've been out of that scene for about 6 years now, but still, finding greater than 550hp requires a bottom end and gearbox. I don't get the impression the Type R is bound to do much better. I'm sure there will be a few monsters out there, but in a world where 10 psi on a Coyote will net you 700hp at the wheels...and Dodge sells a 717hp car off the showroom floor, the fire-breathing monsters of the next 10-15 years will likely be V8s.

If I wanted to produce big power tomorrow - I'd go buy the cleanest 2011-2014 Mustang GT I could find and probably just throw a blower on it, tune it for about 8'ish PSI on 93 octane, big-brake kit, setup the suspension for a street/track tune. Then beat on it, until I broke something. Chances are good I'll need more tires and brake pads before I break something big on it.

With any car, regardless of fuel system or drive wheels, I have something I like to call the 150% rule ; Once you're making 150% of the stock power output, you'll start finding all the engineering limits of all of the powertrain components in short order. Very few cars are exempt from this and the MS3 and Civic Type R were not among them. So building an engine, beefy clutch, gearbox upgrades, etc go with the territory of one chasing 500hp from a car making 250 or 300hp stock.

Some cars have lower and more sudden thresholds than others - 03-06 350Z's with VQ35DE's suffer from a 280hp V6 that shits connecting rods at 350-375wtq. Meanwhile, the 07-08's with VQ35HR's can hold 500ish no problem. It's just a matter of knowing the car and powertrain involved and planning your build around those limitations.

The new Civic Type R benefits from Honda's PCM architecture that's already been cracked, and direct injection isn't a limitation anymore, just a more expensive hurdle to jump than port injection when it's time for an upgrade. On the Chevy Gen V V8's with direction injection, the 5.3's run out of fuel around 600-625whp and the 6.2L's are good for ~725-750whp or so on the stock fuel system. The scary thing is when you get to the edge of the limits, fuel rail pressure falls very quickly from the nominal ~2000psi pressures and flow falls off very quickly with the massive pressure drop you see as you run out of fuel pump. The MS3's simply suffered from a weak fuel pump combination that matched the stock power output and not much more.

On the MS3's, the rest of it wasn't that bad - though my buddy Rob (different Rob) built the 'Papasmurf' MS3 that was making 800+whp for quite some time and IG fame. He sold it recently, falling victim to life being married with kids (married one of my sister's best friends, no less) and now he's got a 392 Charger.

Coyote V8's, though - now you're talking! Honestly, I'd only go with an 11-14 if you absolutely had to have a live rear axle. The S550 is such a massive improvement in every other way, including the strength of the stock engine, that for a daily-driven Girlfriend-friendly hotrod I'd take the S550 and never look back.
For an SC, Whipple is the way to go. Fantastic kit that is easy to install and they've got very good tuning packages to match their product. Having worked on hundreds of cars with aftermarket superchargers, I'd only go with a centrifugal on a Corvette or similar car that made a twin screw impossible for some kind of packaging reason, and Whipple makes by far my favorite and most trouble-free twin screw design in my experience.

I'd also avoid thinking in terms of boost pressure. Boost pressure is relative to the compressor involved so comparing 10psi on a Vortech V1 vs 10 psi on a Whipple AX175 vs 10 psi on a Borg Warner 9180 EFR turbo are all substantially different things and while they'll make somewhat similar hp, it would be folly to assume that boost pressure is commensurate with engine abuse or overall HP level. A properly tuned 11-12psi is 1000 times safer and less dangerous AND more powerful than 6psi on a shit tune.

But yes, Coyote plus Whipple is a good time! Coyote plus an Armageddon Turbo setup is even better, especially with a built engine, but that gets spendy quick.

Also, Hellcats are overrated. They make the HP advertised but they're such big ass sluggish boats that the ~640whp they make stock feels like a ~525whp Mustang or Vette. Which isn't any kind of slouch, but I'd much prefer a ~675whp Whipple'd S550 Mustang or ECS Novi 1200 equipped Z06.

[olstyn]

I know it seems weird if you come from a Japanese or American car background but once you get used to the idea of pulling the front clip on European cars to do regular maintenance it’s not bad. Usually takes less than 10 minutes and makes everything so much easier.

Yeah, I know that's a thing (basically have to do it for timing belt/water pump jobs, etc.) I never quite got comfortable with that, and left those larger jobs to the pros. In the case of the crank position sensor I was lamenting, I don't think it would have helped much anyway. I was working on an '02 A4 1.8T, so it was longitudinally mounted, not transverse mounted like the FWD VW applications of that engine - the CPS was more than halfway back toward the firewall and low on the block on the driver's side of the engine. Ramps or a lift and access from the bottom would have been easier for sure.