Pocket Carry Competition Association

[MTechnik]

Is the theme "back-up-gun"? or "only carry gun"?

If it is BUG themed, have you started a round with a single shot from a "main carry weapon" (glock 19) followed by dropping the brick (presuming last shot, or fatal failure) and drawing the snubby/micro-compact?

[Caswell Ranch]

You could say back-up only but for many the small guns are the carry gun. At a monthly IDPA match I asked most of the shooters what they carry, all said " not my match gun" ,all carry (that I asked) a J-frame, Kel-Tec, M&Pc or some other type of pocket or sub-compact. Look at CCW stats, I have asked over 200 local people and only a few carry a full size gun.

Regards,
Dean

www.pocketcarrycomp.com

[Thrill]

You could say back-up only but for many the small guns are the carry gun. At a monthly IDPA match I asked most of the shooters what they carry, all said " not my match gun" ,all carry (that I asked) a J-frame, Kel-Tec, M&Pc or some other type of pocket or sub-compact. Look at CCW stats, I have asked over 200 local people and only a few carry a full size gun.

Regards,
Dean

www.pocketcarrycomp.com

Me Too!
Glock 17 at range, KelTec P11 or P3AT for CCW.

[Chuck Haggard]

Does my carry gun run 100% Y/N
at the matches so far we see some guns that fail at the same round count (3 shooters,3 guns of the same type and model all fail at 400-425rds with the same problem).
At PCCA we are keeping track of such things.

I'd be interested in hearing what gun that was.

[Wheeler]

I just ordered and received some IPSC targets. I'm going to talk to a couple of the local ranges and see what it will take to setup some of these matches on a provisional basis in NE Ga.

Anyone with some suggestions, I would be MOST grateful. I've operated as an SO for years in IDPA, and as an Asst MD for a couple of years, but never started a match from the ground up.

Wheeler

[Tamara]

I cannot tell you how relieved I was to go look at the rules and see that this doesn't actually involve drawing from the pocket.

[JodyH]

I cannot tell you how relieved I was to go look at the rules and see that this doesn't actually involve drawing from the pocket.

Why is that?
If a proper holster is utilized, pocket draws are as safe as any other draw.
I've seen more fumbled draws and dropped guns from race holsters in IPSC matches than I have unsafe/fumbled draws from pocket carry in our local CCW matches in which we allow pocket carry (with MD/RO approval).

[Tamara]

Why is that?

Because it seems a whole lot easier to point a gun at your thigh while fishing it out of a trouser pocket.

I mean, theoretically, a horizontal shoulder rig is no more dangerous than any other holster, right? So why aren't those allowed at matches?

[JodyH]

Because it seems a whole lot easier to point a gun at your thigh while fishing it out of a trouser pocket.

I mean, theoretically, a horizontal shoulder rig is no more dangerous than any other holster, right? So why aren't those allowed at matches?

How many pocket holsters do you own?
How familiar with pocket carry and draw techniques and safety are you personally?
I think the majority of your fears are based on ignorance (that's not a personal attack on you).
I run into a lot of competition shooters who think any form of concealed carry "looks" dangerous.
I see a lot of people who don't compete who think race holsters "look" dangerous.
To the average person who just owns a "house gun", the act of drawing a pistol and "running around" with it looks dangerous. But we as competitors do it all the time.
The fears are based on unfamiliarity and ignorance of techniques and safety protocols.

Any holster that's in front of the hip has the potential for pointing the gun at your thigh, crotch and/or femoral artery.
That includes "race holsters", appendix carry holsters (esp. IWB) and pocket holsters.
This is a big concern on stages where you start seated in a chair.
That's why a good holster, muzzle awareness and trigger finger discipline are so important.

Behind the hip carry has the potential for 180 violations, especially with forward canted holsters.
As a RO I have to remind a lot of shooters to watch their muzzle when holstering up "hip side".

"Dropped and offset" hip holsters point the muzzle directly at your lower thigh and knee.

When I RO a pocket carrier I watch for the same things I do when I RO any other competitor.
Muzzle awareness and trigger finger discipline.
Possible safety issues with the holster, clothing, accessories.
Violations are corrected or the competitor is disqualified depending on the nature of the violation/problem.

As to your second point, there is no way to avoid 180 violations and weak arm sweeping with a horizontal holster rig, that's why they aren't allowed.
If the shooter is facing downrange there is no way to draw the pistol without violating 180.
The only way to avoid muzzle sweeping the weak arm is to raise it over your head like you're washing your armpit.
It would be impractical to allow special dispensation to shoulder holster carriers to allow for a safe draw on every stage.

[Wheeler]

How many pocket holsters do you own?
How familiar with pocket carry and draw techniques and safety are you personally?
I think the majority of your fears are based on ignorance (that's not a personal attack on you).
I run into a lot of competition shooters who think any form of concealed carry "looks" dangerous.
I see a lot of people who don't compete who think race holsters "look" dangerous.
To the average person who just owns a "house gun", the act of drawing a pistol and "running around" with it looks dangerous. But we as competitors do it all the time.
The fears are based on unfamiliarity and ignorance of techniques and safety protocols.

Any holster that's in front of the hip has the potential for pointing the gun at your thigh, crotch and/or femoral artery.
That includes "race holsters", appendix carry holsters (esp. IWB) and pocket holsters.
This is a big concern on stages where you start seated in a chair.
That's why a good holster, muzzle awareness and trigger finger discipline are so important.

Behind the hip carry has the potential for 180 violations, especially with forward canted holsters.
As a RO I have to remind a lot of shooters to watch their muzzle when holstering up "hip side".

"Dropped and offset" hip holsters point the muzzle directly at your lower thigh and knee.

When I RO a pocket carrier I watch for the same things I do when I RO any other competitor.
Muzzle awareness and trigger finger discipline.
Possible safety issues with the holster, clothing, accessories.
Violations are corrected or the competitor is disqualified depending on the nature of the violation/problem.

As to your second point, there is no way to avoid 180 violations and weak arm sweeping with a horizontal holster rig, that's why they aren't allowed.
If the shooter is facing downrange there is no way to draw the pistol without violating 180.
The only way to avoid muzzle sweeping the weak arm is to raise it over your head like you're washing your armpit.
It would be impractical to allow special dispensation to shoulder holster carriers to allow for a safe draw on every stage.

Dang, I was going to reply to Tamara's question but JodyH nailed it all in one post. About the only thing I can add is that not only is it a safety concern, it's a liability concern for whatever range happens to be hosting the match/class. Even if shooters sign a disclaimer, that doesn't mean they can't file a lawsuit, and that can get expensive, even if the shooter is completely in the wrong.

Wheeler