@GJM if that thing is reliable w/ 45 Super there is the new “CQBG” Close Quarters Bear Gun!
@GJM if that thing is reliable w/ 45 Super there is the new “CQBG” Close Quarters Bear Gun!
I no longer compete in USPSA. My question is "are PCCs unreliable in general" or "do USPSA competitors push the envelope to gain an advantage = PCCs become unreliable". I have good results shooting my SIG MPX SBR and even good results with two "cheap" PSA AR9 builds. I would suggest that a PCC would be much more effective in 95% of shooters vs a RDS pistol.
We run outlaw competition matches using IDPAish rules and match stages in pistol bays (with more targets and more that are further out distance wise). Effectively anything can be put into a category and compete (I've seen garands...yahooo!). Its really fun. Up to about 30 yards, the PCC guys beat everyone by a significant margin. Interestingly, good pistol shooters can hold their own quite well against 5.56 and higher iron sight carbines and do decently against optics carbines. Its very eye opening (or Mark One optic opening...)
winning priority with "Equal shooter*":
Optic .22
Optic PCC
Optic Carbine
CO pistol
PCC
pistol / carbine.
Revolver
battle rifle
Mr. lever action
Angry wiener dog
**former SWAT guy on my team well represented this and ran an optic carbine and optic pistol. Won with both and the carbine was about ten 'seconds' better, primarily due to more accurate hits.
EDIT: Am I the only one who sees this an immediately thinks "hey HK is making a new MP5!"
Last edited by Zincwarrior; 07-12-2019 at 10:36 AM.
It uses UMP mags so I dont blame you for your thoughts about HK.
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During my time on the USMS Task Force they had the UMP which I thought was a formidable weapon. It was handy and with Winchester SXT I figured it would pack a punch. I also thought it would do better in a house than 5.56 as far as over penetration goes. I also enjoyed shooting it, cleaning was another matter though. A former co-worker runs the FB/IG site Lone Star Boars and has been using one of the SMG45’s on hogs the last month or so and is having pretty good success with it. He’s Alison on YouTube under the same name and probably has videos up of it. With that being said I think the price is a little over the top and if it drops some I would be a buyer.
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I think this really depends on stage design and how hits are scored. In USPSA, the trend is for PCC to place high but usually not fill the top couple spots. In IDPA, it's really difficult for me to say, as there's just not many experienced PCC shooters near me, but bad PCC shooters are sure not beating pistol shooters who are merely OK.
I imagine you may be pretty harsh on "C" hits?
I’m inclined to think the ideal candidate for a defensive PCC is the “Old Man Gun.” Something with a bit more punch than a .22LR for someone recoil sensitive and/or unwilling to dedicate training to handguns or rifle caliber training. I think it makes much less sense for anyone, say, lower C class or better.
Last edited by David S.; 07-12-2019 at 07:03 PM.
David S.
Yes, to your first two questions. PCCs in general are less reliable than their rifle caliber cousins. USPSA competitors, in their effort to be more competitive, also make their PCCs less reliable with after market triggers, tuning to make them cycle softer, and using magazine extensions.
If you are going to the trouble to carry a long gun, why not make it in a rifle caliber?
As a PS on the MPX, I love the MPX and have three of them. There are pages and pages on Enos of the multitude of reliability problems mid to high round count MPX shooters have.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.