Interesting. So this method has the advantage of shooting to the same point for most reasonable distances, but with the disadvantage that you always have to compensate for the offset. Do I understand correctly?Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock
Interesting. So this method has the advantage of shooting to the same point for most reasonable distances, but with the disadvantage that you always have to compensate for the offset. Do I understand correctly?
Sorry, when I said "not visible" I meant obscured by the irons/muzzle.
I made exactly the same mistake the first time I tried to use a red dot sight on a gun equipped with a dot and irons: trying to use two different sight systems at the same time. It does not work well. At any given time, you should be using the laser or the irons, but not both in the same sight picture. Trying to use both will not only take longer, but will mess up your sight picture.
If your laser is adjusted so you can see the laser at the top of the irons at 7-10 feet, then the direction of the beam will be so far off from the direction of bullet travel that the laser will be useless at longer distances. If your laser is properly sighted in, it is very unlikely to be visible if you have a good iron sight picture at close range.
As you are bringing the gun up to the target, you will either see the dot moving towards the target or you will not. If you see the dot, then use the dot, not the irons. Continue bringing the gun up towards your line of sight like you normally would, but not quite high enough for a proper sight picture, so that you are looking over the sights at the dot. If you do not see the dot, then forget about trying to hunt for the dot, and just use the irons as you normally would.
That's how I understand it. If you were to press your muzzle against a surface and activate the laser, that relationship between the two will be your POA/POI offset for all practical purposes. Obviously, the laser beam will not be affected by gravity like the bullet will, but that's the general concept.
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Sounds good in theory, not sure if it works that way. May give it a try. When I was originally getting a zero and being annoyed I asked Claude Werner about it as I knew he had done some work with small pistols and lasers. He had a novel idea, follow the manufacturers directions. Crimson Trace recommends 50 feet. I went with that and it does seem to be the best compromise. Still, it annoys me that at 5 yards and in I am 1.375 inches high. Sort of the opposite of the mechanical offset on my AR.
I found and reported that in day time TX, the CT's on my J frame were of very little use at anything but close up. The red dots was something you had to look for. Thus, my two cents is that, on that gun, it's a close up night time friend or a nonstandard position (meaning I am on my butt) close up tool. Otherwise, it is faster for me to go for the sight picture. YMMV.
I am evaluating the laser as an option just for low-light situations within the house. I'm thinking tritium might be a better solution, but I've read positive things about lasers so am investigating. For one thing, a laser doesn't require any modification to the gun.
I had trouble seeing the dot on my J-Frame. I took one of those Q-Tip things and cleaned the lens. Magic. I could see it.
I think I used 50 feet for the G-17 and 30 feet for the J.
I would not be without tritium sights on a handgun that I carry or keep ready for serious purposes, if there is any easy way to get those tritium sights. On a J frame, that may require altering your sight picture.
Neither is perfect. A well set up set of irons with tritium is visible in almost any lighting conditions. There are no batteries to die at the wrong time. However, there are definitely times when even the best tritium irons are tough to see, and the laser is more quickly and readily visible. Also, tritium has a half life of about 12 years. I find that for best results, I need to replace my tritium sights about every 6 years. I would not waste a dime on any tritium sights using inserts that come from a source other than Trijicon (which makes inserts for several other companies, including but not limited to Dawson and Novak, in addition to their own brand of sights), because I find that two other brands have not stood up to much abuse, dimming out in about 3 years of weekly use in one case, and in a few months of weekly use in another case.
The battery issue with lasers can be addressed by testing and/or replacing the battery regularly. At one point, Crimson Trace had a free batteries for life program (you have to request the batteries every year, they do not automatically send them). That program may still be in effect. ZTS makes a battery tester that will work with coin cells and almost anything else you could want to test for about $80-$90. There isn't much that can go wrong with a laser that cannot be addressed by just using the irons. I have not experienced the wandering zero issues that others have described, although I got seriously into lasers at a time when I shoot a lot less than I used to.
There is nothing wrong with having both.
I asked Kyle Defoor (he obviously knows his way in the dark) about lasers on carry pistols. He acknowledged there use for barricade work and such but felt they we’re not needed on carry pistols.
I personally see the utility of them on a j frame but other then that I don’t think it is a necessary addition.
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