P320 drop safety issues

[MSparks909]

Is Mike Foley not the USPSA President?

You're right, I'm an idiot who can't Google worth a crap. Ignore my entire post.

[Schmetallurgy]

A new twist... I don't see the trigger move rearward on this, either, despite the forces partially mimicking​ Andrew's drop orientation. Seems to be more support for the guts vs trigger weight theory.

Maybe this seems unscientific​, but if I were safety testing a new gun design, beating the back of the slide, and elsewhere, with a mallet seems like a pretty common sense, low cost way to start.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...no-plans-test/

[ST911]

Can or should the P320 be banned by competitive associations, trainers, and gun clubs due to safety concerns? If no, how can anyone distinguish a "fixed" P320 from one that hasn't been voluntarily sent back for the "upgrade"?

Gio touches on that in an earlier post, this thread or the other one.

As-is, the 320 is no more dangerous than some of the other owner tomfoolery and aftermarket gadgetry already plaguing clubs and ranges. To ban the 320 would be intellectually dishonest if the same standards are not applied to DerpKustom's "Ubershooter 5000" or their "Performance Drop In Competition Kit."

[Gio]

Gio touches on that in an earlier post, this thread or the other one.

As-is, the 320 is no more dangerous than some of the other owner tomfoolery and aftermarket gadgetry already plaguing clubs and ranges. To ban the 320 would be intellectually dishonest if the same standards are not applied to DerpKustom's "Ubershooter 5000" or their "Performance Drop In Competition Kit."

While I generally agree that most 2011's that have been poorly built are likely not drop safe, the difference in this case is that these are well documented instances, which changes things from a liability perspective.

[StraitR]

Gio touches on that in an earlier post, this thread or the other one.

As-is, the 320 is no more dangerous than some of the other owner tomfoolery and aftermarket gadgetry already plaguing clubs and ranges. To ban the 320 would be intellectually dishonest if the same standards are not applied to DerpKustom's "Ubershooter 5000" or their "Performance Drop In Competition Kit."

I've tried to keep up with this thread, so pardon me if I missed Gio's post. I'll go back and try to find it.

In the meantime, what you say makes sense, however, this is a production pistol that has proven to be unsafe if dropped, which is contrary to it's intended design (aka defect). Of course, one cannot test every pistol that comes to clubs and ranges, but is the safety of participants not the number one concern? The DerpKustom Ubershooter 5000 could be questionable, but unsubstantiated until tested. Aside from all the damning YT videos and internet chatter, PF members have proven with their own samples in that the 320 will AD more times than not if dropped. Is safety not the same reason the Serpa is banned by many facilities, agencies, and trainers?

Just thinking out loud here.

[ST911]

While I generally agree that most 2011's that have been poorly built are likely not drop safe, the difference in this case is that these are well documented instances, which changes things from a liability perspective.

I've tried to keep up with this thread, so pardon me if I missed Gio's post. I'll go back and try to find it.

In the meantime, what you say makes sense, however, this is a production pistol that has proven to be unsafe if dropped, which is contrary to it's intended design (aka defect). Of course, one cannot test every pistol that comes to clubs and ranges, but is the safety of participants not the number one concern? The DerpKustom Ubershooter 5000 could be questionable, but unsubstantiated until tested. Aside from all the damning YT videos and internet chatter, PF members have proven with their own samples in that the 320 will AD more times than not if dropped. Is safety not the same reason the Serpa is banned by many facilities, agencies, and trainers?

Just thinking out loud here.

Institutionally...sure. For some clubs/ranges, I do still see a bit of (hypocrisy? irony?) in a potential ban of the 320 by model and some other configurations allowed or tacitly encouraged otherwise. Safety of the participants the number one concern? I'm not often so sure.

[LangdonTactical]

I find that interesting as either the XM17 is "that" different or SIG has known about the P320 issue for some time. The latter would be consistent with what I have seen when the attorneys are running the show. I also wonder about the guns for Homeland Security.

The XM17 is not that different, other than it has a manual safety, which I am sure is what they are talking about. I know more about this that I can really say, but I will just be over here in the corner watching this all unfold.

[Manbearspider]

Between this and the Steyr lawsuit, the profit margin on those 320s just went out the window

[Xrslug]

The XM17 is not that different, other than it has a manual safety, which I am sure is what they are talking about. I know more about this that I can really say, but I will just be over here in the corner watching this all unfold.

I was recently listening to a podcast with one of FN's folks involved in their XM17 submission and I can't imagine how frustrating this must be for the other participants in the selection process. Although schadenfreude. Also that.

[Rack]

I hope the solution is NOT a tabbed trigger. I hate trigger tabs.