NYPD to armor all patrol cars and command vehicles

[txdpd]

Ok, serious question. What would you do with the $4 million to improve patrol officer safety in the NYPD?

External vest carriers and suspenders for patrol officers. It's a lot easier to not sit in a vehicle when your back doesn't hurt all the time.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Ok, serious question. What would you do with the $4 million to improve patrol officer safety in the NYPD?

That's a tough question, because $4m would be a good sum of money for a 1000 officer PD to do something with.

A 36,000 officer PD? $4m is so small that there's no meaningful improvement it can accomplish. That's not going to get you a notably increased amount of officers on shift, it's not going to get you a significantly different training/readiness regimen, etc. You can fill some gaps on specific programs or precincts, but it's not an amount of money that will do anything department wide.

Honestly, I'd sink it all into ammo for training.

[Gray222]

Honestly, I'd sink it all into ammo for training.

Hey, that's common sense logic talk there, better keep that type of thing to yourself. Only way to make it to the rank of top brass is to completely purge that from yourself.

[TGS]

Honestly, I'd sink it all into ammo for training.

Again, you're dealing with 36,000 sworn personnel.

Even if you say we're going to sink $4m into ammo, but only for about 20,000 cops, that still only works out to a one-time (this isn't a renewable/recurring fund) supply of about 1500-2000 rounds per officer. I don't care how pro-firearm or enthusiastic about skill development anyone is.....that is not a good use of funds.

So, again, we're back to the basic truth that $4m is really only enough to plug holes in specific programs when you're talking about a police department that is larger than most of the world's armies.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Again, you're dealing with 36,000 sworn personnel.

Even if you say we're going to sink $4m into ammo, but only for about 20,000 cops, that still only works out to a one-time (this isn't a renewable/recurring fund) supply of about 1500-2000 rounds per officer. I don't care how pro-firearm or enthusiastic about skill development anyone is.....that is not a good use of funds.

So, again, we're back to the basic truth that $4m is really only enough to plug holes in specific programs when you're talking about a police department that is larger than most of the world's armies.

True, but it is my understanding that it is a lot more than they currently get.

$4M / 36k doesn't leave a lot of meat on the bone, and I figure that a little more range fodder is likely to be the most bang-for-the-buck considering those numbers.

[HCM]

Honestly, I'd sink it all into ammo for training.

Ammo is the cheapest part of LE training. The real cost is the man hours. As TGS said, for NYPD $4 Million is a drop in the bucket.

Not to mention facility and staff time to conduct that training. They shoot 2x per year - and qualify 1,000 officers per week.

To see any real benefit from that ammo 99% of the officers would need structured practice / drills with feedback.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Ammo is the cheapest part of LE training. The real cost is the man hours. As TGS said, for NYPD $4 Million is a drop in the bucket.

Not to mention facility and staff time to conduct that training. They shoot 2x per year - and qualify 1,000 officers per week.

To see any real benefit from that ammo 99% of the officers would need structured practice / drills with feedback.

Understood.
I don't know if this is still the case, but 15 years ago, the local PD's indoor range had two cardboard 55 gallon drums....one full of 9mm and one of .38 Special. Officers could come in and shoot to their heart's content, but on their own time/ no OT.

[HCM]

Understood.
I don't know if this is still the case, but 15 years ago, the local PD's indoor range had two cardboard 55 gallon drums....one full of 9mm and one of .38 Special. Officers could come in and shoot to their heart's content, but on their own time/ no OT.

Local PD in Texas or the Dakotas is not NYPD. You are drawing from groups with two very different cultures.

While NYPD certainly has some cops who can shoot and are gun people, they are a minority. Pat Rogers and Jim Cirillo for example were anomalies. Many of the "gun people" who do pass through NYPD get sick of NY's anti gun culture and move on to fed agencies or LE jobs in "free America" states like Florida, Pennsylvania etc.

Most NY cops won't shoot on their own time so giving out practice ammo is out as most would wind up sold or sitting in someone's basement. For those who do want to go shoot, voluntary open range days with some coaching and feed back is going to be far more productive than simply turning Ammo into noise.

[heyscooter]

NYPD operates in as close to an infinite degree threat environment as anyone is going to get. They could change some tactics, but there's no escaping the reality of the world they operate in. If there's a PD that needs armored cars it's NYPD.

I agree that NYPD (or any other officer of a major metropolitan police department even) deals with a heightened level of risk, statistically speaking. I'm not sure I agree that armored cars is the solution to mitigate that risk.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Local PD in Texas or the Dakotas is not NYPD. You are drawing from groups with two very different cultures.

While NYPD certainly has some cops who can shoot and are gun people, they are a minority. Pat Rogers and Jim Cirillo for example were anomalies. Many of the "gun people" who do pass through NYPD get sick of NY's anti gun culture and move on to fed agencies or LE jobs in "free America" states like Florida, Pennsylvania etc.

Most NY cops won't shoot on their own time so giving out practice ammo is out as most would wind up sold or sitting in someone's basement. For those who do want to go shoot, voluntary open range days with some coaching and feed back is going to be far more productive than simply turning Ammo into noise.

Understood, and agree. Probably only 10% or so took advantage of it. I recall Mas Ayoob writing decades ago, quoting the NYPD firearms guy then, that the average NY cop would rather have a nice Parker pen than a custom S&W. I can't imagine that things have improved in that regard.