Current State of the Shotgun

[NickS]

FWIW...I had several Remmy 870s and I've sold them all and moved over to the Mossberg 590A1 shotgun.

Could not be happier with my decision. YMMV

I like the build quality.
I like the safety.
I like the way it operates.
I got the Magpul edition and bought an extended mag tube for it.

LOVE me this Mossberg.

Plus, frankly, I've come to despise Remington/Freedom Group and DO NOT TRUST THEM

[Jay Cunningham]

I love the Mossberg safety on a straight stock shotgun. I just wish I could have a Rem 870 Police Magnum underneath it.

[Bergeron]

Civilian.

I have a shotgun for clays, a shotgun for hunting, and a shotgun for 3-gun/competition.

I live in an urban area, inside an apartment, and uses a Glock for home defense and for carry.

I've seriously considered using the competition shotgun for defensive purposes. I agree that reloads and capacity are not large concerns, and that optics and lights are important. I would like an SBS, but I'm happy enough with my current situation that I would seek out an SBR PCC for recreational purposes as a higher priority than the SBS.

I do wonder how widespread adoption of full-brass shells and magazine fed SBS gun would change the game.

[Bigghoss]

I disagree. Not that recoil is heavy, it is. Or that reloads are tricky. They are. What I disagree with is you need to be very good for SD purposes. Reloading is a big skill for games and something of a skill for timmy, but show me a home invasion that required a shotgun to be reloaded to resolve. I've yet to have someone lose against a home invader who discharged a shotgun. I've seen them lose when the gun was taken from them, when they couldn't get the trigger lock off, but every single person who's fired the shotgun won either by incapacitating or causing the flight of the suspect(s).

The physical and psychological affect of the shotgun blast at close range has won the day every time. Personally, I suspect the sheer level of noise and muzzle blast are tough to stand up to mentally, and the physical damage from decent buckshot is tough to argue with. I will also say the same is true of ARs, though, and the AR is easier to use as well. It's arguable if it's easier to maintain for the "stick in the closet and hope you never need it crowd". Pump guns don't care if they are completely dry of lube. They are reliable at a much lower price point than a quality AR (although that gap has closed lately). Long guns are just easier to use in general and don't require the same level of proficiency as handguns to be effective with.

I have personally found my pump shotgun to be easier to learn than I expected and is often touted. One still needs to learn it and practice regularly, but if you get the right length stock running it isn't all that hard.

[Jay Cunningham]

What kind of data is available on gunfights involving good guys using shotguns?

[Hambo]

I grew up where shotguns were used for everything. Bird hunting-shotgun. Deer hunting-shotgun with slugs was only legal method. Home defense-shotgun. With that background I have what many might see as an irrational love for shotguns. I currently have...well, several...pumps, semiautos, and even a double in 12, 16, and 20ga.

That said I don't think a lot has changed from when you could buy a double, Auto-5, Model 12, or Model 1897 at the hardware store. Sure, you can play Barbie with stocks and hang a lot of weight increasing stuff on them, but shotguns are still shotguns. The biggest changes are choke tubes (My name is Hambo and I'm a choke tube addict), rifled barrels (not really new tech), and ammunition. Wad technology makes better patterning shot shells and Brenneke slugs changed the game from the Fosters I hunted with as a kid.

[mtnbkr]

Civilian user here. No mil or leo background at all.

I standardized on the shotgun for several reasons:
1. I had an 870 that was otherwise unused and no AR at the time, so I rebuilt it into an HD gun (18" barrel, side-saddle ammo carrier, Magpul furniture, light, etc).
2. The blast and concussion of the 12g is less than that of the AR223. IMO, this will be better for me and my family in an HD shooting.
3. I live in a 3 story townhouse (think saltine box on end). The bedrooms are on the top floor, the entrance is the bottom floor, and the main living space is the middle floor (den, kitchen, etc). The absolutely longest shooting distance would be 15yds, but mostly less than 10yds. From any of the bedroom doors, I can cover the stairwell and prevent others from coming up to the top floor. From nearly any vantage point on the 2nd floor, I can prevent someone from entering that space from above or below.
4. I live in a fairly dense suburban area.
5. I've seen the effect of buckshot and slugs on large game. As pointed out in another thread, slugs are immediately incapacitating, but rifle projectiles, even when placed properly, don't always stop immediately.
6. I've owned this 870 for nearly 20 years and used it for hunting and clay games before remaking it as an HD gun. I'm comfortable with it's operation and reliability and don't find the AR "easier" to manipulate.

FWIW, I have an AR as well, but treat it more like a "toy" and experiment with it (adjustable gas block, lightweight BCG, etc). While it is 100% reliable so far, I wouldn't trust it for HD purposes yet. If I had a proven AR and no shotgun, I probably wouldn't go out and buy a shotgun for HD, but given both tools and budget to set up both properly, I think I'd still land on the shotgun for this particular use.

Chris

[BillSWPA]

I'm not LE, and never have been. - - Aren't there plenty of situations in an urban environment where buckshot at close in ranges is more desirable than sending rifle rounds down range ? Seems like the shotgun would still fill a role. Perhaps the LE guys can comment.


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My understanding is that .223 penetrates fewer interior walls than buckshot. One could also argue that a miss with a single projectile is less dangerous than a miss with 9 projectiles.

States which require using a shotgun for hunting base this in the theory that a shotgun projectile will not travel as far as one launched from a rifle. Although such incidents are not common, there have been incidents of slugs traveling quite some distance before hitting a house.

Regarding "buzz words" in another thread, I have rarely seen the word "shotgun" in the news without the words "sawed off" in front of it, although the vast majority of shotguns discussed were too long to meet the definition of a sawed off shotgun.



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[spinmove_]

I found this clip rather interesting and informative.

https://youtu.be/PrGL8wexJdA


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[Lyonsgrid]

In my experience the LE shotgun is falling out of favor. The simple fact is the carbine gets the most training time and it's use is highly encouraged by our division Primary Firearm Instructors (PFIs). I can't recall a single time in the last two years seeing a shotgun deployed on an operation. The shotgun has it's place still but the culture in my agency keeps them locked away and rarely seen. In fact, at our last quarterly firearms training, not a single SA or TFO shot the shotgun qualification course (SQC) and most don't keep a current semiannual qualification score. Also, the newer (2014) SQC is the most difficult course of fire and I've seen many guys and gals struggle to pass.