AAR: Larry Vickers Advanced Handgun Marksmanship Class, 21 MAR Bellevue, WA

[TCinVA]

Word.

[LSP972]

But....just like the mob's concrete or cartage "services", you take what you can get to get the service of one of those big name trainers. It's a shit sandwich at times, so you get to at least enjoy the bread and endure the turd.

Perhaps. But the problem there is, the average citizen taking a class will not learn one useful thing from those big names that guys like you and DB cannot show them; and all without having to grab their ankles and put up with half a class of "That Guy"s who aren't being herded by watchful AIs.

And we won't get into the fact that guys like ya'll and Tom Givens present information that is MORE useful to the average citizen than stacking magazines and charging uphill into a crossfire.

Sorry, grandson #1 has been watching too many Yeager/et.al. videos. I told him to quit soiling his screen with that bullshit; it makes my teeth hurt.

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[LittleLebowski]

P
Sorry, grandson #1 has been watching too many Yeager/et.al. videos. I told him to quit soiling his screen with that bullshit; it makes my teeth hurt.

.

[Dagga Boy]

Perhaps. But the problem there is, the average citizen taking a class will not learn one useful thing from those big names that guys like you and DB cannot show them; and all without having to grab their ankles and put up with half a class of "That Guy"s who aren't being herded by watchful AIs.

And we won't get into the fact that guys like ya'll and Tom Givens present information that is MORE useful to the average citizen than stacking magazines and charging uphill into a crossfire.

Sorry, grandson #1 has been watching too many Yeager/et.al. videos. I told him to quit soiling his screen with that bullshit; it makes my teeth hurt.

.

Wayne and I made a business decision that we will not do what seems to be necessary to be popular. No social media wars, no you tube, no embracing people we despise to be featured on some show, and will not get on every forum out there trying to drum up stuff, and we are really bad about sending our students to other people......which have included both Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn. We also do not want the folks attracted to the flaming helicopter overseas contracting classes.....even though Wayne and I have likely had more success working in both helicopters (including an emergency landing in a smoke filled helicopter on my first day in the unit) and as an overseas contractor. We are simply okay with just the word of mouth, maintaining our dignity, supporting many other great instructors and doing our thing. Unfortunately, most of the folks who could use what we do don't want it. Many of those folks could really use a couple of our classes, and what they would be surprised about is that we would likely send them to Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Pat Rogers, Scott Reitz, Larry Mudgett, Paul Howe, Craig Douglas, Spencer Keepers, Chuck Haggard, Tom Givens (and especially the Tac Conference), Aaron Marco, Matt Jacques, Pat Macnamarra, Steve Tarani, Cecil Burch, Greg Elliferitz, Steve Fisher, Chris Lapre, And many others to expand their knowledge and become more focused in fine tuning their training to specific gaps in their skills or training. Heck, I have recommended many to folks like Robbie Leatham for students or followers we have interested in the competitive or serious mechanics side. The point is that we believe there is a ton of good instructors and we have been to many of them ourselves a lot. We have always tried to help our students and those on the path to best tailor their training to those most relevant to their goals. It is not a good business model, but it is the right thing to do in an endeavor that falls out of traditional business lines. Now, how people get the training from instructors......sorry, we can't help on those who are arranging or hosting the training and how that goes.

I will say that sadly, many folks are in the wrong classes. I think it hurts the process. I can guarantee a person who has been through a couple classes from us who shows up at a LAV class will be two things...a far better student for Larry, and someone who will get FAR more out of what Larry is capable of teaching than the guy who watched Tac TV and wants a Larry Vickers autograph (or other trainer, not to sound like I am picking on Larry) and shows up at a Vickers class with little or no solid training. I know I benefited from being in a small Vickers class with a bunch of very serious shooters who were all able to get taken to our max and to see Larry at his best because Larry didn't have to spend a bunch of time on a bunch of people who were holding the class back and limiting how much of Larry's VAST knowledge base he could pass on.

[jc000]

Perhaps. But the problem there is, the average citizen taking a class will not learn one useful thing from those big names that guys like you and DB cannot show them; and all without having to grab their ankles and put up with half a class of "That Guy"s who aren't being herded by watchful AIs.

And we won't get into the fact that guys like ya'll and Tom Givens present information that is MORE useful to the average citizen than stacking magazines and charging uphill into a crossfire.

Sorry for the thread jack but I'd LOVE to have DB / WD do an open enrollment course somewhere in driving distance of NoVa. Along with a slew of other folks who participate on this forum.

[okie john]

Sorry for the thread jack but I'd LOVE to have DB / WD do an open enrollment course somewhere in driving distance of NoVa. Along with a slew of other folks who participate on this forum.

Seattle, too, please.


Okie John

[CCT125US]

My issue, and root cause in my massive disappointment in a big name instructor, is my selfishness as a student. See, I can respect you for your past accomplishments, and appreciate your past contributions and service. But when it comes to trading money for knowledge, I expect to get that knowledge and understanding. Silly right? So I need to have a take away that I can build on. Stories and experiences can be a valuable learning tool, but there comes a point where I feel I am watching a movie. It is one sided, with no interaction or individual feedback. If I wanted that I would have rented a movie and had popcorn. At the end of class I better have a list of things to develop and work on. That's one reason PF is such a valuable resource, the cost / benefit is so lopsided. It's perfect for those individuals who don't worship at the feet of idols.

[GJM]

You guys are tough -- don't you think maybe they just had a computer software problem, and lost track of how many participants they were booking?

New 2017 rules for Alias class AAR's, no mention of number of students or round count.

[Josh Runkle]

You guys are tough -- don't you think maybe they just had a computer software problem, and lost track of how many participants they were booking?

New 2017 rules for Alias class AAR's, no mention of number of students or round count.

I'm assuming this is sarcasm.

[GJM]

I'm assuming this is sarcasm.

C'mon, I don't think it would take more than one sixth grader with a few large envelopes to keep their classes straights. Orders of magnitude easier than tracking Girl Scout cookie sales.