Is having a hammer for Appendix carry worth changing platforms?

[David S.]

It is a training issue first. But accidents can happen, as you say, to any of us.

I've done my risk assessment. I prefer the additional tactile safety measure. I would not carry AIWB without a hammer (or something similar) and I, personally, don't understand why anyone would. But that's me. Some very sharp people do carry without that particular protection. Some very smart people don't understand why I would risk carrying AIWB in the first place.

I combine all the safety measures that OragamiAK mentioned in post #40 with riding the hammer during reholster. That's my comfort level.

It sounds like you've made a risk assessment, and that's what really matters, so rock on with your bad ol' self. You'll get no hate from me.

Cheers,
David

[WDW]

I tried several guns with AIWB before settling on a P99 AS. It's the best of both worlds....a smooth, long DA first pull followed by one of the best SA triggers in polymer framed gun there is. Plus, it features a very prominent "cocked or not" indicator on the rear of the pistol...both visual & tactile. I definitely prefer something between me and the trigger when carrying AIWB.

[ToddG]

I hear what you are saying and believe that you are agree with me more than disagreeing.

I agree with your assessment that we're agreeing. You're correct that we could take the examples to extremes, but at the end of the day, as so many have said, it's a matter of how many and/or which safety precautions get you to your comfort level.

Whether AIWB or somewhere else, I think it is a good idea to remember that, it can happen to any of us. Whatever method, place and safety procedures we use it is important to remember that none of us are immune to screwing up. It only takes one. We all can get complacent and for me remembering that fact helps keep me humble and watchful.

I think that's a key point often missed by many. There are some pretty well known folks in the shooting community who've injured themselves ballistically while holstering a gun. If the guys who are handling guns every day for years (or decades) can have an off moment, any of us can.

And to the world at large, please note the difference between "any of us can" and "all of us will" before going on a rant about how you could never make such a mistake because you are a Safe Gun Handler (universal "you" not JustOneGun himself).

I would not carry AIWB without a hammer (or something similar) and I, personally, don't understand why anyone would. But that's me. Some very sharp people do carry without that particular protection. Some very smart people don't understand why I would risk carrying AIWB in the first place.

Good comments all. I, too, have reached a point where I won't carry aiwb without redundant control of the firing mechanism on top of "don't touch the trigger." But the guy who turned my personal circle of shooting buddies on to aiwb in the first place did so with a G19. At first, we were all amazed that he was crazy enough to carry aiwb at all and constantly made fun of him for being stupid. A few years later, just about all of us were carrying aiwb, and quite a few of us doing so with a SFA pistol.

[1slow]

I carried Glocks GL21,30,19,17 from 1990. IWB till about 2005. AIWB since then. Went to Rogers 4 times using AIWB.
About 2012 switched over to HK45, HK P 30 LEM 9mm still AIWB.
Either system can be reholstered safely.

In the cold snow and rain under closed cover + 1-2 outer layers I am more comfortable with thumb on hammer reholster. Add darkness or gloves and this is even more true.
I really thought about this in: Pat Rogers 3 Day Carbine class in SC 2014 that started in the snow, John Farnham's 3 day instructor class during the dark and carbine to pistol and back to carbine transitions.

[Leroy]

I don't have an issue with carrying a striker AIWB, but always carry it without a shirt behind the gun. From the ADs reholstering that I have seen and heard about typically 2 things compress the trigger; finger or article of clothing. I switched to a hammer gun for competition gun so I weny to a similar carry gun for carry. Being able to put the thumb on the hammer does give me a little piece of mind.

[23JAZ]

I agree with your assessment that we're agreeing. You're correct that we could take the examples to extremes, but at the end of the day, as so many have said, it's a matter of how many and/or which safety precautions get you to your comfort level.



I think that's a key point often missed by many. There are some pretty well known folks in the shooting community who've injured themselves ballistically while holstering a gun. If the guys who are handling guns every day for years (or decades) can have an off moment, any of us can.

And to the world at large, please note the difference between "any of us can" and "all of us will" before going on a rant about how you could never make such a mistake because you are a Safe Gun Handler (universal "you" not JustOneGun himself).



Good comments all. I, too, have reached a point where I won't carry aiwb without redundant control of the firing mechanism on top of "don't touch the trigger." But the guy who turned my personal circle of shooting buddies on to aiwb in the first place did so with a G19. At first, we were all amazed that he was crazy enough to carry aiwb at all and constantly made fun of him for being stupid. A few years later, just about all of us were carrying aiwb, and quite a few of us doing so with a SFA pistol.

When can we expect the gadget out. So us SF carriers can have a little more comfort?

[GJM]

What percentage of appendix NDs happen reholstering and what percentage happen drawing? Reading this thread, you would think NDs only happen reholstering.


Something I tried to point out with reference to the Front Sight data, is people shoot themselves all sorts of ways.

[JV_]

Reading this thread, you would think NDs only happen reholstering.

Did you miss my previous post, #47?

[GJM]

Did you miss my previous post, #47?

I did miss that, on the road all week. My point still stands -- post after post in this thread discusses an ND while reholstering and the Front Signt data, as I recall, has about half the accidents drawing.

[JustOneGun]

It is a training issue first. But accidents can happen, as you say, to any of us.

I've done my risk assessment. I prefer the additional tactile safety measure. I would not carry AIWB without a hammer (or something similar) and I, personally, don't understand why anyone would. But that's me. Some very sharp people do carry without that particular protection. Some very smart people don't understand why I would risk carrying AIWB in the first place.

I combine all the safety measures that OragamiAK mentioned in post #40 with riding the hammer during reholster. That's my comfort level.

It sounds like you've made a risk assessment, and that's what really matters, so rock on with your bad ol' self. You'll get no hate from me.

Cheers,
David

Bold text above mine...

I understand what you are saying. As we have all agreed you must look out for yourself and make that decision. What much of the thread has concentrated on is trying to answer your bold statement above.

I don't think I explained myself very well and will try a different way. People who have valid safety measures while holstering sometimes shoot themselves. People with no safety measures while holstering sometimes shoot themselves. We can guess why the later would shoot themselves. But how would you or I do so? Usually it's because we start to holster as a learned process without thinking. We use the same mental processing to holster as we do to draw. We've all heard people say, "I didn't even know I had drawn the gun. It just happened." What I see from shooters, good and bad, is that they holster in the same way.

When I've seen safety problems on the range while holstering it is usually because that safety process we all are talking about was never started. Their safety loop was interrupted. With that in mind, adding a hammer to the looking, clearing obstacles and canting will not stop us from shooting ourselves. I have seen people put their thumb on the hammer of a cocked Sig and holster. They weren't thinking just doing. The only way in my opinion to stop it is to make holstering during thousand of reps a non-subconscious process. This would be the idea of telling yourself not to kill yourself right before you holster or saying to yourself out loud that you are done with dry fire and will load the pistol so no more pulling the trigger.

Now you can still say you will only use a hammered pistol and that is fine. I would humbly suggest that we all keep in mind how we can keep holstering from becoming an ingrained subconscious habit. Because when that happens you might not start the process. If there happens to be an obstruction of the holster at that time you might just shoot yourself hammer or no.