Tactical training for the CCW holder

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Yes Fred, it was Gen. Kiraly. A stunningly excellent teacher. Interestingly, he shut down incipient commandos who wanted to call him General in class. He emphasized theory and analysis as compared to who had the big gun. I regarded him as crucial in my intellectual development about analyzing issues.

Funny, I was taking my daughter to the library for her to do some research and we were near the books on Hungary. I found one while she was working that had a picture and description of him. She was impressed.

I wrote a paper on the comparision of the Naval Limitation Treaties before WWII and current attempts (at that time) for nuclear disarmament. He give me an A and said it was an excellent essay. One of the few times, I really felt proud of a teacher's feedback.

PS - as far as the first aid stuff in the car - seen enough deep cuts out in the country to have more than a band aid. Also, car crashes. Never know when you might see a giant UFO hovering over San Antonio and I don't have a Mac laptop to hack it.

[cclaxton]

Unsecured loaded guns are a bit of a raw nerve for me right now. Our guy that was murdered last month was killed with a freshly stolen handgun that was taken in a burglary.

It does our 2A rights no good at all for us to be arming criminals because we are too lazy to lock our shit up when we ain't wearing it.

I want to reinforce this thought as well. I now have three portable Gun Safe's, plus my regular gun safe. I don't leave any guns laying around the house or just sitting outside the safe. Once I get back from a match they get put away in a safe except for the one on my hip. I also use steel cables to tether the portable gun safe to the vehicle. I also tether my long gun cases with steel cable.

It's not just protecting them from theft, but protecting them from untrained family members, guests, and anyone I don't personally authorize to hold/use.

If the mother of the Newtown Shooter had done the same, possibly could have saved those kids.
Cody

[RBid]

Seems like a darn good way to get shot.

Not necessarily.

We actually have a lot of information that makes nyeti's and Chuck's comment ring very true, and probably indicate that there is substantially more opportunity to safely impact the outcome by delivery of aid and supplies than there would be through attempting to get to a kit and return to the fight. A quick rundown:

1. active shooter events tend to be very short, and injuries don't heal as fast as these events end. By the time a person gets to a kit and begins heading toward a place where they can provide help (not the same as returning to where the shooting is actively taking place), the gunfire is very likely to be over. In the time it takes a person to exit, get to a vehicle, grab gear, and return to the area, a person with an "active shooter kit" is almost guaranteed to be worthless, and makes a very conspicuous target. On the other hand, a person who returned with medical supplies is likely to find people who are bleeding.

2. As I touched on in parentheses above, a person providing medical support doesn't have to go where the shooting is. Most people will be running away from that place, so injured people may very well come to the provider. Again, it is also very possible that the shooting is over by the time the supplies have been secured, so the shooting area may very well be safe, and the provider may be able to stabilize badly injured people who were unable to flee the space where things started.

3. When emergency responders come, I think it would be a much safer thing to be seen attending to a victim than it would be to be standing in the middle of carnage with a weapon out.


All of the above aside, accidents happen, and traffic is a Thing. Having the ability to provide attention, or to provide supplies to a scene where a victim is lucky enough to have had a medical professional among those on hand, is a very powerful thing. Many lives have been saved by prepared samaritans.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[RBid]

Seems like a darn good way to get shot.

...and after I typed out the above post, coffee kicked in and I realized that your words referenced the bolded part of the post you quoted.

I'm going to leave the other post up in case any lurkers need a nudge in the direction of building a medical response kit instead of a (ridiculous) active shooter kit, but I would also like to say...


my bad, sir. I agree 100%.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[RJ]

Well, take this for what it's worth, which is: thoughts from a non-inner-circle PFcommer, a Canadian, and a guy who spends twenty times as much time on tactics as on technical shooting skills:

I remember the original question being something about "what skills should a typical CCWer have/type and frequency of training etc"

I just drank a bacon ceasar so I'm overly confident and am going to say what I actually think is the answer to this question.



IMO, if you carry a gun, you need to be able to put rounds on target at close range but not much more. If I could only see one or the other, I'd rather see people shooting confidently from retention at contact range than expertly on a 3x5 at 25 under ideal conditions.

Before you put rounds on target you need to access your gun, and you're not doing that until things have gone pretty wrong - which quite possibly means there's someone on top of you, kicking your ass. So you need the boxing and grappling skills to manage the beating you may well take, and either get to your gun, or protect it from your assailant while you utilize other options.

Before you take that beating, you need the de-selection/de-escalation skills of managing encroachment problems before they become contact problems. So you have to have the combination of verbal and mental wherewithal to project enough force on approaching predators that they select easier meals.




That's why I tell everyone to take ECQC. Honestly, although I like high-skill shooting...I don't think it's especially critical for 99% of situations. I think a guy with 12 months of boxing and jujitsu and 6 hours of pistol fundamentals could eat the lunches of the overwhelming majority of assailants. I think a guy with 12 months of pistol training and 6 hours of boxing and jujitsu could provide a very good pistol and wallet to most assailants.


So that is my answer to the original question. A typical CCWer should focus on developing skills that involve coping with getting punched in the head or outflanked at a gas station by a guy who bottles you as his friend distracts you.

Missed this until today, lot of good comments here.

As a 'Average CCW' participant in the thread, would ya'll say that unarmed fighting skills (Karate, Judo) would be useful as a compliment to Marksmanship or USPSA-type competition?

At age 56 I'm weighing getting back into Judo or Karate as a means of enhancing my personal fitness. I'd done this in my younger days (when dinosaurs walked the earth) but it had not occurred to me it might help in an encounter with a Goblin.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Maybe this is not surprising but I think it's critical. I'd jump on Judo classes for sure. There's nothing like grappling skill to help you control a situation long enough to get to your gun.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

[RJ]

Got it thanks.

I have fonder memories of Judo than Karate, anyways.

[sly fox]

One down side of judo is if you have any injuries it can be a bit hard on the body, I train sambo which has similar throws and my body's pretty busted
up from training different arts for many years, and its pretty unforgiving sometimes.. If you have a few injuries Brazilian Jiu Jitsu's probably a better fit
than judo

[Glenn E. Meyer]

You are not going to get the average CCW type (who doesn't even carry his or her gun most of the time) to take judo classes. To return to the OP, you might get them to take some easy escape combatives (like the RAD classes). Yes, I took Judo a thousand years ago. Probably wouldn't do that now anymore - sigh. I do recall thinking in a FOF a year or two ago, that my 'attacker' was set up for a move. However, I verbally convinced him to leave me alone. I also could have 'shot' him but my verbal skills managed to move him out of the path to the door and assuage his anger. Worked out better than front fall, side fall, back fall - oh, my poor old knees now.

Not putting down such training but returning to the motivation of the average folks and cross that with physical ability of most as we age. That will determine whether you might be the older or middle aged average CCW person to engage in such.

[NETim]

Middle age brings with it certain advantages. Any attacking bad guy will certainly be overwhelmed, at least temporarily, by the deafening sound of joints creaking and popping, not to mention the Geritol fumes. I'll make an easy, hobbling escape. If they persist in their attack, the progressive grind on my glasses can provide an instant death ray at ranges up to 12 yards or so, even on a moderately sunny day.