I've carried and used AR's in the field a fair amount over a number of years as well as lever guns and bolt actions. I don't think AR's do anything a lever or bolt does and better as a field gun. I find them bulky and awkward in general compared to the "legacy" guns when carrying one in hand a lot.
I was thinking in terms of you are going where smokeless powder and jacketed bullets don't exist, and won't for a long time. Unless you are packing all the knowledge to create the current ammo infrastructure it would make sense to bring a firearm that a) can use black powder and b) can use molded bullets. Most autos won't cycle with black powder loads, so that's the reason I discount the AR/Glock concept. An AR that becomes a straight pull bolt gun is much less ergonomic than a lever gun or traditional bolt gun, despite it's edge in capacity. I would say that a 45-70 is indeed a heavy round but it can be reloaded with available components (minus primers) so I would be comfortable with a much smaller quantity of pre loaded ammo than I would be with a modern smokeless rifle caliber for an indefinite stay in the 1600s. If not a 45-70 then a 357 or 44 mag would be ok also.Originally Posted by TGS
ETA: I looked it up and an 1895 guide gun weighs 7lbs, which is lighter than some ARs anyway.
Sent from my iPhone, I apologize in advance for typos.
A Winchester 94 in 38-55, 32 win Spl, or a 92 in 45 Colt or 44-40 would all work reasonably well with black and cast bullets. The last two would have ammo compatibility with a handgun as well. I've carried 45-70 ammo around on foot, its pretty danged heavy.
I guess much depends on how many rounds you will need over your expected lifetime in "the new world." I'm already 60 so between self defense and whacking a white tail from time to time, a few hundred rounds might do it. Another thing to consider is picking up a commonly-available firearm when you "arrive" and save the 21st century weaponry for critical use.
I hear older guys have a better chance with younger women back in those days too. :-)
At that time, "older" didn't mean 60. If anyone knew your age and saw you smile, for example, they'd kidnap you to study your teeth.
(ETA: OMG, I just realized, I need to pack like 100 toothbrushes!)
Why is it a no-go? You can get 1K rounds of 223 (or 9mm) for 30 pounds. From a semiauto rifle, that's probably enough to stop a charge from 100yd by every able-bodied man in any town, even if they kept charging to the death. (Consider that, according to the census, there were 350 colonists in what is now the US in 1610.) Now, I agree that if my goal is, as postulated in the OP, to reach California alive and healthy, then avoiding a fight is much better than fighting. But with a few 30-round mags, a reliable AR, and some skill, I might give 50/50 odds against a settlement at the time. The natives might be a different story, I don't know enough history to say. But if they take you by surprise then your arsenal won't help, and if they don't take you by surprise, you can sure come up with some powerful tactics given the situation. (E.g., if you take one shot every second, the enemy is very likely to think that there's a whole lot of disciplined fighters bunched up together and shooting at them...)
But I think your larger point is this idea that the firepower needs to last forever. I didn't take the game that way - the goal was to reach California. If I need a period firearm in my stable life once I reach the left coast ... I can acquire one in-theater, so to speak.
Also, I forgot to mention. I'd like to bring some modern recipes and ingredients (or at least the seeds for ingredients) to make good beer. There are other, arguably more powerful, ways to conquer besides guns. If I can bring a modern metallurgy textbook, I could be the real Hank Reardon.
The answer, it seems to me, is wrath. The mind cannot foresee its own advance. --FA Hayek Specialization is for insects.
Not in California in 1611...The Spanish didn't establish most of their colonies until the 18th century and California wasn't recognized as anything worth governing until 1697. There will be no one besides natives to trade with in California.
If you need a firearm, that you don't bring with you - And that's debatable - it will have to come from Jamestown as that is likely the last major white settlement you will encounter. Next time you see white people with guns on your trip, they'll either be French or Spanish. If they are French you can probably do some trading, if they are Spanish, you'll have to do some running and hiding.
Personally, the longer I think about this, the more I think about glass and brass beads, gold, silver, and a bunch of super high quality laminated maps of various kinds, topographic, geologic, and mineral come to mind. That and an extensive history book, a blacksmithing/metallurgy book might be good too.
Hmm, the 1611 semiautomatic pistol, a long-lived design by MDS. I like the sound of that!
The answer, it seems to me, is wrath. The mind cannot foresee its own advance. --FA Hayek Specialization is for insects.
Remember that this is a 3-5 year trip. You probably can't safely travel during winter. This means that by October, you're building a semi-permanent structure, and you're staying put until April. You won't have the ability to can any vegetables or fruits, so you will live almost exclusively off of fish, nuts and game. If you don't have a way to smoke and salt the meat set up, then you'll be spending a lot of time hunting.
Salting isn't required to preserve meat, just drying it. Smoke is mostly needed to keep flies off of it while it dries. Jerky, in its original and most basic form is simply dried meat. The stuff we see today, and the way many people make it today is more of a novelty or snack food than a primary food staple. All that's needed it a way to hang it, like a rack of thin poles (I've used bailing string) and a dry climate or enough time to get it dry. Smoke would help in a damp climate. Some places people would hang their drying meat above the living area, so the normal cooking/heating fires would help dry the meat. Its a big job though, cutting up and drying a large animal like a buffalo, or several buffalos.
Black powder loads were mentioned in regards to self loaders. Actually, there have been several youtubes of people that have loaded black powder loads in 1911's and perhaps Glocks. They actually worked fairly well, at least for the first 50 rds or so. An AR may not be the best gun to try black powder with, though it would probably work OK for at least a few rounds. Black powder cleans up easier than most seem to think. Even cold water breaks it up, though warm water helps.
Last edited by Malamute; 09-12-2014 at 12:25 PM.
Can I take Andrew Skurka? And some native carriers?
reading his thruhike accounts, I am not sure that
crossing the US is doable in a 1600 seting.
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