Frustrating 3-Point Failure To Chamber Jams With A 1911

[Alaskapopo]

Pat, I'm a long-term participant on the old 10-8 forum, so I'm familiar of what which you speak. My basic lubrication protocol is this: Medium to heavy applications of TW25B to areas of metal-on-metal bearing/reciprocation/stress (receiver rails, barrel exterior, chamber hood exterior, inside barrel bushing, slide release axle and inner barrel link, barrel lugs and slide lug cuts, and feedrail/disconnector cut. Slide rail cuts receive a lighter coat of TW25B (in effect "greasing the way" for the gross application of TW25B via the coating from the receiver rails when the slide and receiver are mated-that way, the excess is directed to the rear of the slide,instead of accumulating inside the dust cover).

A light coat/film of lubricant/anticorrosive (Weapon Shield {or currently Mil-Comm's MC2500 oil})is applied to slide, receiver, and other components during the field strip/cleaning/lubing process. A drop of lubricant is applied to the disconnector head and worked in by working the disconnector, and a drop is thrown down the front of the hammer to lubricate the hammer axle, hammer hooks and sear.

It's probably unnecessary, but immediately before a match (these days, primarily IDPA, which are usually 90-130 round 6-8 stage affairs) I'll apply a "cover coat" of Weapon Shield/MC2500 to the rails, barrel exterior and chamber hood exterior.

Prior to use, and otherwise annually (or after heavy use/dirt/sand/mud/water immersion), magazines are disassembled, brushed out with a magazine brush, and tube interiors, followers, springs and any baseplates/innerbaseplates are treated with a coat of Dri-Slide, a dry film molydisulfide anticorrosive/lubricant. Tube exteriors are wiped down with a film of lube, or Sentry Solutions Tuff Cote.

And yeah, Todd's head is probably spinning if he reads this....

Best, Jon

Sorry did not know your background. Sounds like you know your stuff on 1911's better than I do. Hope you get it figured out.
Pat

[TheTrevor]

Thanks, Trevor-that breakout was exactly what this non-reloading shooter needed. Thanks for taking the time to provide the links.

Glad to be of service. The pricing for new product is so near the price levels for buying the same stuff used that second-hand only makes sense if you know someone local who's selling off stuff.

[JonInWA]

UPDATE February 16th: Well, after 2 separate range sessions and a full IDPA match (yesterday, in pouring rain for about 6 hours), the switch out of magazine springs and followers (from Check-Mate GI followers/standard strength springs to Check-Mate skirted/dimpled/teflon-treated followers and extra-power high performance springs) seems to have done the trick. All of my 7 round magazines functioned perfectly with this set-up, using the same previously problematic Federal Champion 230 gr ball (with some CCI Blazer Aluminum thrown in towards the end of the match). The malfunctions did not reoccur at all throughout administrative cycling, range firing sessions, and during the IDPA match subsequent to the follower/spring switchouts.

My conclusions, as before, and as others have suggested: When moving from a 5" to a 4.25 inch 1911 problems, the window of the planets being aligned and everything synchronizing "just so" becomes diminished. That's certainly not to say that Commander-size (or smaller) can't be made to run reliably, it's just to suggest that they need more finessing and judicious component selection to do so-even from a high quality manufacturer (and this covers both gun and magazine manufacturers). In my case, magazines set up for a 5" 1911, and working flawlessly with it simply did not do so initially with my 4.25".

While bullet setback may have been a significant, if not primary causal factor, at the end of the day the stronger magazine springing and more ideally configured followers were sufficient to override cartridges with bullet setbacks. While I'm no engineer/gunsmith/manufacturer, my thoughts are that ammunition/ammunition quality, magazine springing, cartridge presentation angle from the magazine (particularly on the last round in the magazine), and slide mass/inertia/reciprocation speed all have crucial roles to play in the successful operation of a 1911-and the importance/criticality of each individual component is magnified when shrinking the Government profile of the platform.

Thanks again for everyone's input and suggestions on the thread-they were very helpful throughout.

Best, Jon

[SecondsCount]

Good to hear that you got it figured out.

[JonInWA]

"Figuring things out" is kind of a 1911 mantra...

Best, Jon

[farscott]

Really interesting analysis and conclusions. I know from personal experience that the shorter 1911 variants have a narrower operating window, but I must admit I have had good luck with true Commander-dimensioned guns. The ones that bit me had Commander-length dust covers with Government model dimensions from slide stop pin to VIS and the corresponding recoil spring guide seat. That is 0.100" less travel.

This issue is a whole new ball of wax and suggests I may need stronger magazine springs or more frequent mag spring changes.

[45dotACP]

Lee Reloader single-stage press: $28.49 (Midway http://www.midwayusa.com/product/807...le-stage-press)
Lee carbide factory crimp die, 45ACP: $18.79 (Midway http://www.midwayusa.com/product/716...cp-45-auto-rim)
Lee #2 shell holder: $3.69 (Midway http://www.midwayusa.com/product/616...ngfield-45-acp)

So, around $50 + shipping.

Exactly what I got started with lol. You aren't by chance a broke college student are you?

You've got it pretty solidly down I'd say. The smaller 1911's are definitely more spring sensitive (especially magazine springs because the slide moves faster). This is mostly why I use a government model. Even so, I'd recommend handloading (because it can be done with greater quality than factory ammo, in spite of what detractors would say), running rounds through a crimp die (because it resizes the rounds), using the right magazine combo (as you well know by now), and having the right extractor tension and geometry.

3 point jams are a very complicated problem, and as a Nursing student I'd say the important thing is prevention rather than treatment. In my case, prevention is in the form of a Glock 21 when I feel like I need to burn up expensive .45 ammo for seriousness I'm nowhere near knowing enough about my 1911 to be confiden in it for competition, let alone self defense

[JonInWA]

Exactly what I got started with lol. You aren't by chance a broke college student are you?

You've got it pretty solidly down I'd say. The smaller 1911's are definitely more spring sensitive (especially magazine springs because the slide moves faster). This is mostly why I use a government model. Even so, I'd recommend handloading (because it can be done with greater quality than factory ammo, in spite of what detractors would say), running rounds through a crimp die (because it resizes the rounds), using the right magazine combo (as you well know by now), and having the right extractor tension and geometry.

3 point jams are a very complicated problem, and as a Nursing student I'd say the important thing is prevention rather than treatment. In my case, prevention is in the form of a Glock 21 when I feel like I need to burn up expensive .45 ammo for seriousness I'm nowhere near knowing enough about my 1911 to be confiden in it for competition, let alone self defense

I agree; while I thoroughly enjoy my 1911s (especially when thoroughly debugged), in .45 ACP my "go to" pistol is far, far more likely to be my Gen 3 G21. While it lacks the historic cachet of a 1911, it's quite accurate, weather impervious, lighter, easier to maintain, carry double the payload, costs half the price (or less), has virtually zero magazine issues, and is both durable and reliable-and I can easily detail-disassemble and perform parts replacement/switches myself without needing access to power tools and a machine shop.

However, there's a high degree of enjoyment and operational use capable of being derived from a 1911. And that includes the arguably somewhat warped pleasure in diagnosing and resolving issues with the platform when they occur...

At any rate, that's my story and I'm sticking to it...

Best, Jon