What's your .357 Magnum Carry Ammo?

[revchuck38]

IIRC, DB said the goal of this round was to be able to shoot full .357 Magnum out of a classic K frame without beating the crap out of it.

Actually, he said he wanted to be able to shoot .357 Magnum without it beating the crap out of him. He's got really bad arthritis in his wrists, plus he does like K frames. Conventional wisdom is that full-power 158s are less harmful to K frames than full-power 125s, but physics is physics and the recoil from either is stout. He also dislikes the crud ring that builds up in .357 chambers when you shoot .38s.

[Guerrero]

Actually, he said he wanted to be able to shoot .357 Magnum without it beating the crap out of him. He's got really bad arthritis in his wrists, plus he does like K frames. Conventional wisdom is that full-power 158s are less harmful to K frames than full-power 125s, but physics is physics and the recoil from either is stout. He also dislikes the crud ring that builds up in .357 chambers when you shoot .38s.

Yup, that was the quote.

[LockedBreech]

My only .357 is my grandpa's 4" Colt Python he carried on duty in the 1960s. It doesn't get shot a lot, and never carried, and when I do shoot it, it mostly gets range ammo and/or .38 Special. But I have a box of 125-grain Remington Golden Sabers, and I keep an HKS speedloader of them next to it in the safe. Simply because I'm a sentimental sort, it's an old warrior, and I feel like it deserves to have some duty ammo.

[Guerrero]

Actually, he said he wanted to be able to shoot .357 Magnum without it beating the crap out of him. He's got really bad arthritis in his wrists, plus he does like K frames. Conventional wisdom is that full-power 158s are less harmful to K frames than full-power 125s, but physics is physics and the recoil from either is stout. He also dislikes the crud ring that builds up in .357 chambers when you shoot .38s.

For those interested (I know I am), I culled from a couple of DB's FB posts:

Had a great day with this S&W Model-19-3 2.5” barreled “Cadillac Snub”. I am continuing to test the High Desert Cartridge Company .357 Magnum load I helped consult on. The goal was to have a good .357 cased load to use in .357 Magnum chambered revolvers that would not leave a ring in the cylinder like .38 Special does. We went with a velocity of around 800 fps that mimics a .38 Special load with low pressure. The bullets are 158 grain flat point Total Metal Jacket to run clean. Low recoil, clean, reliable and very easy on the older classic guns I love to shoot. I sighted this gun in for the High Desert Cartridge Compnay training load and shot 50 rounds with no real discomfort. That is with an open backstrap wood gripped Magnum snub. I then confirmed that sight zero with the High Desert carry load that is a 158 grain Hornady XTP bullet. The rounds hit to the same place. I kept all of the rounds fired inside the 10 ring of a B8 target at 10 yards at a good pace after the first sight in rounds.
So far this project with High Desert Cartridge Company has been a success for the goals Steve Shields and I set for this load. It is great to be able to take this older guns out and enjoy them.

Here we go!
Everything I am teaching the rest of the year is revolver-centric (or shotgun). The workhorse revolver got broke out of the safe and sits in front of me while watching TV with loaders and dummy rounds. This gun is sort of a Mutt….which makes it a great beater to train on. Finks built it at some point. My good pal and teaching partner Bryan Eastridge got the internals dialed and cleaned up a few issues. It is originally a 1973 Model 19 that had a 4 or 6 inch barrel in it, so it is a square butt gun and has been fitted with a 2.5” barrel and a custom front sight with a brass bead. I like it because it looks like a miniature 3.5” Model 27 that are my favorite revolvers. It has lost all its collector value so I do not mind working it hard. I took it out today to start a dedicated training regimen with it.

The first thing I did is to confirm zero on the sights. This gun will exclusively get High Desert Cartridge Company .357 Magnum loads from here out, so I wanted to make sure it was dialed in. It shot to the sights as it was previously shot a lot with 158 gr. lead .38’s. This is where doing the custom .357 Magnum load with High Desert Cartridge Company was validated. Ejection was initially sticky due to the ring in the cylinders left from an obvious diet of .38’s in the .357 chambers over the years. This got better throughout the training session as the ring was getting removed with heat and proper length cases pushed in. Accuracy was good and the goal of workable recoil was also met even with the short barrel, open backstrap and wood grips.

Next I shot a HiTS Snubby Super Test. I have shot some of my best regular Revolver Super Test scores with a different 2.5” Model 19-3, so running the snub version really defines what made these guns so good for many plainclothes and off-duty police officers in place of the 2” J frame. I shot 6 rounds at the 10,5 and 3 yard stages instead of the normal 5. After ten yards, every single round was in the X ring of the B8. Total score was a 179/180. This is the best score I have ever shot on the Snubby Super Test. Truly the defining moment was how easy this gun was to shoot a hole at 3 yards one handed as fast as I could recover a sight and stroking the trigger continuously. The rounded trigger on this gun really helps. Normally, with a full house .357 load with one hand on a snub….one hole is not the result. This is a trade off I will take at this point in life. I want to be able to shoot fast in full control AND surgically. Not having a shot of lightning into the base of thumb with every trigger press really helps on the accuracy and consistency side.

I shot another control drill on the 1 inch dot and called it a day in the 110 degree temperature. I went at noon because I knew zeroing this gun I wanted the Sun directly behind me. It worked well to see the sights correctly, but lord it was hot. I have another aftermarket rear sight that I am going to have Finks Custom Guns cut a half circle at the base of to better frame the old man brass bead in front. It should give me a good sight picture for both B8 work and then the bead for the fast stuff.

Overall, I could not be happier with the High Desert Cartridge 357 Magnum load that basically puts a good .38 in a .357 Magnum case. I have done all the initial load work up with a workhorse Model 28-2 Highway Patrolman. It did everything I wanted in having a solid easy training load for shooting the older service guns. Seeing how well it shoots in a K frame snub is a win. I also saw first hand a correction for an issue that many do not realize that shooting .38 Specials in .357 Magnum chambers can cause some issues we do not realize. Another great thing….with FMJ ammunition, I do not feel the need to immediately clean it and can get a couple more range sessions in before I have to clean it. Later this week I will tackle a regular Revolver Super Test.

Now, it may be that the XTP in these doesn't expand, but I would be grateful if someone could find out. Not to mention the fact that they are reasonably priced.

[Ghost Dog]

around 800 fps I am going to say no from a 158 xtp. The only bullet that diameter that will expand that low I can think of is old HST load, and maybe, maybe some BB very soft swclhp. UW had a similar load I don't think they do now. Fiocchi 148gr is a new possibility. I don't believe Fiocchi's defense dynamics bullets are something that can be sourced but you never know if the right people like DB ask

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXRGma5TZAw&t=

[Glock17JHP]

Will this be videotaped?

Can you chrono them? Curious if new Silvertip is a good bit slower than old.

So you will get really really good vs really good lol starting to split hairs

Silvertip in water will get more expansion less Pen, unless you push it too fast the edges frag off. I don't think this will be too bad in Ruger 4.2" though Ruger barrels are generally very fast, but I would expect it from a 6".

HST will be far superior in 6-20" barrels as well, as well as through serious barriers and bone

Over 30 oz revo should get HST if we are optimizing
Under 30 oz revo Silvertip for better control, though an sp101 w Rubber Grips probably handles HST well if you needed that for woods and city.

The interesting test to me is HST vs 125 xtp vs 158 xtp in a lever gun....a guess because I have never owned one and would like to get one lol. I think any of those loads would likely do whatever is reasonably expected to do with them from a lever gun.

Either way both are very good for bipeds/city. HST slightly better for animal defense and windshields I would expect IMO.

post your results.

No, it won't be videotaped, and I will not be chronographing, either.

Am aware of limitations of water testing, that was my method of testing while in the IWBA for all of my testing that was published in our WBR journal.

I will post if I deem it to be helpful.

[Ghost Dog]

Provided Data Requested plus more for everyone

[Velociginger]

[QUOTE=Guerrero;1577902]




Now, it may be that the XTP in these doesn't expand, but I would be grateful if someone could find out. Not to mention the fact that they are reasonably priced.[/QUOTE

I shoot a couple thousand XTPs a year, spread between 45 Colt, .38SPL, and .357 Mag. I don’t have any ballistics gel or water tanks, but I shoot piles of deer and hogs. In my experience, the XTPs have to be pushed pretty hard to expand, I’m guessing over 1K. My .38 special load (125 XTP, more of a 38-44) expands in animals, but it’s doing 1180 out of a 4 inch M19.
Hopefully that is of some value.

[Lost River]

This stuff is pretty popular in my house.




170 grain Keith wide nose SWC hard cast.

[03RN]

This stuff is pretty popular in my house.




170 grain Keith wide nose SWC hard cast.

Yup, the bears are out